|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
3rd February 2005, 05:06 PM | #81 |
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,290
|
Quote:
|
3rd February 2005, 05:07 PM | #82 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,223
|
Quote:
If you're right there will be a rapture and you'll find out whether atheists change or whether you're recognized as a Christian. |
__________________
This, above all: to thine own self be true. (Polonius to Laertes) Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. - (Benford's law of controversy) |
|
3rd February 2005, 05:07 PM | #83 |
Smelling fishy
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home is wherever I'm with you
Posts: 27,388
|
Quote:
Are you going to flee in terror at his awakening and die slowly and painfully, or willingly sacrifice yourself to appease his insatiable hunger, thus guaranteeing yourself a quick and merciful death? This is fun. Can we do Dagon next? Or Sauron? |
__________________
Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV. "...untrustworthy obnoxious twerp." - CFLarsen |
|
3rd February 2005, 05:49 PM | #84 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: S.E. USA. Sometimes bible country
Posts: 7,787
|
Quote:
None of those you chastize and condemn to hell here would believe in or follow your god because they would at best think it was a more advanced nasty alien masquerading as a god, to keep you believers in line, and probably to tell you to dispose of the rest of us unbelievers, on His behalf of course. To answer your question more simply; IF there was something that even sorry atheists like me would acknowledge as being the creator and scriptwriter of this universe, then I cannot possibly believe that it would be anything remotely like what you describe. Try to comprehend that this is NOT an attack on God, it is an attack on YOUR imagination. |
3rd February 2005, 06:25 PM | #86 |
Dog Everlasting
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,528
|
Quote:
Then I ask him if he was really omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient. If not, why did he allow his followers to present him as such. If true, why the hell does he allow such suffering and perversity to exist in the world. If he wimps out and says that such things are Satan's fault, I ask him how an omnipotent being couldn't control his own creation. If he admitted that he slipped up but would do better in the future, I'd reserve judgement and see if he really did shape things up and do what he promised to do. Same as I'd treat any politician. |
3rd February 2005, 07:17 PM | #87 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
|
|
3rd February 2005, 07:26 PM | #88 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,963
|
Relax...
Enjoy the scenic view and if you look carefully you can see one of god's angels near the waterfall at the back. <center> </center> Can you see the angel? |
__________________
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it". - PTerry Top 10 Reasons Why I Procrastinate: 1. |
|
3rd February 2005, 08:14 PM | #89 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
|
Only someone with divine healing powers could possibly see the angel!
|
4th February 2005, 05:42 AM | #90 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
Quote:
In both cases, regardless of who or what is proven, I am a moral being and thus responsible for my own behavior. I would follow the teachings of any God whose teachings were of good moral value. That means I probably wouldn't follow the OT God, who has rather dubious moral teachings, and would probably follow most aspects of the NT God, given some clarification on some troubling moral questions. (or rather the Biblical NT God, not the perversion that most fundamentalists have made of the NT God that would, for example, ever endorce war.) In any case, I would never voluntarily relinquish my free will to the will of anyone else, god or no. |
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
4th February 2005, 05:56 AM | #91 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,071
|
Quote:
|
4th February 2005, 06:09 AM | #92 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,452
|
1inChrist
Quote:
Ossai |
__________________
The other moral to be drawn from the story [of Job] is that if you lead a good virtuous life, God will urge Satan to kill your family for a bet. Perhaps you should try to sin a little now and then, just to keep your children safe. - Dr Adequate www.stopsylvia.com |
|
4th February 2005, 09:03 AM | #93 |
Advaitin
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,926
|
Re: Re: A question for atheists here.
Quote:
|
4th February 2005, 09:54 AM | #94 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,574
|
Quote:
I think that the answer is obvious enough, most people would choose to follow a beneficient deity were they sufficiently convinced of said deity's beneficience and existence, myself included. If we're talking the God of the Bible, as you point out, beneficience is a major concern, even if existence is not. |
__________________
"Man would have been too happy, if, limiting himself to the visible objects which interested him, he had employed, to perfect his real sciences, his laws, his morals, his education, one half-the efforts he has put into his researches on the Divinity" -Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Necessity of Atheism |
|
4th February 2005, 11:05 AM | #95 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,917
|
Quote:
|
4th February 2005, 11:44 AM | #96 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
|
Okay, so 1inch has returned.
(Adds "raises from the dead in a few months" to the 1inchRist D&D stats) That worth at least +1 CR right there. |
__________________
Sometimes going by "Nyke" | "Pascal's Wager: Believe in Unicorns, or one might kick you in the nads!" | "There is no hope for humanity. Reason is dead and we dance on the corpse. Tra la la la la!" --c4ts | Intelligent Design & Expelled Exposed | I'm on dial-up. If you want to reply to me, summarize please. |
|
4th February 2005, 12:08 PM | #97 |
Student
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 26
|
Re: Re: A question for atheists here.
Quote:
Not a particularly interesting place though. The wmd that dwelleth in the Heavens: 3 A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. 4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. Psalms 97:3-4 And when the time cometh, where's the safest place to be? Your car...? 19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Judges 1:19 And so forth. |
__________________
"Prayer, the last refuge of a scoundrel." --Lisa Simpson, "The Simpsons" ep. 7F03: "Bart Gets an F". |
|
4th February 2005, 12:58 PM | #98 |
Advaitin
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,926
|
I just found the "REAL TRUTH!!!"
I think 1ofC and others will find the truth is really interesting, I surely wasnt expecting this. Oh well. |
4th February 2005, 01:01 PM | #99 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,766
|
Re: A question for atheists here.
Quote:
The one who, according to the Bible, loves genocide and murder and human sacrifice and genital mutilation, who thinks that women should be murdered as a punishment for being raped, who urges the Devil to torture the innocent for a bet, and who, as St Paul clearly states, created most people just in order for them to gratify his sick torture fetish. So, yes and no. If by "submit to his will" you mean, would I do what he tells me, then of course I would --- I wouldn't want filthy sick scum like that to torture me. If by "submit to his will" you mean that I would actually assent inwardly to his monstrous cruelty, then the answer is no. I am not filthy scum. I will never worship evil. I've answered your question. Now here's one for you. Suppose that God existed --- suppose the voices in your head that told you all those stupid lies really was God. This is plausible, I suppose, since the Bible portrays God as a stupid liar. Suppose, then, that the filthy creature exists. Suppose it ordered you, as it ordered Joshua, to comit genocide against a whole nation --- men, women and children. Would you do such a filthy, sick thing? How much do you really worship evil? Look into your heart. Don't you feel some sort of urge to love what is good and hate what is evil? |
7th February 2005, 11:26 PM | #100 |
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 15,468
|
Re: A question for atheists here.
Quote:
Lost Angeles had a great answer for you. I don't think you'll accept it; you'll say we're avoiding the question. Truth is, they're getting to the core argument. Back when I worked in vocational ministry, Chuck Swindoll said something that actually made sense to me: "You're the only Gospel that some people will ever encounter in their life." Now, if I had to go by Mike Warnke, I'd have to say that God is a liar. If I had to go by what I saw happened with Sandi Patti and a number of others, noting that other Christian artists who divorced found their music pulled from Christian radio playlists, while Patti and Joe English did not, I'd have to say that God was a hypocrite. If I had to go by what I see with Randall Terry, and the obsession with the unborn, but the complete ignorance of those whose lives were destroyed by rape, incest, molestation, homelessness, and abuse, I'd have to say God is unjust. What do your actions say God is, 1inChrist? |
10th February 2005, 04:21 AM | #101 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 667
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
10th February 2005, 04:00 PM | #102 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,917
|
Wait a second
Quote:
|
10th February 2005, 04:26 PM | #103 |
Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 184
|
Quote:
Give me a pitchfork, a double shot of JD, enough funky drugs so I feel no pain and lets get it on. Afterwards, I'm going back to hell and finding me a room filled with naked souls and having some fun. Who cares if we lose? What's god going to do... send us to hell? EDIT: this post in no way construes an endorsement of drugs. No one should use drugs unless they are already dead and in hell and then, what the heck when in Rome... |
10th February 2005, 04:43 PM | #104 |
JREF Kid
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 809
|
Any magical being that would require one to worship and follow it would not be worthy of respect. So, no.
Besides the fact that the whole thought of a magical being in the sky that created the universe is just plain silly. |
22nd February 2005, 05:46 AM | #105 |
Student
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 33
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.
Quote:
How is the praying going? Could you give me some feedback on the minutes/hours you have spent on this and what the results have been? Do you feel this has been a constructive use of your time? Would you do it again? |
22nd February 2005, 06:40 AM | #106 |
JREF Kid
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 809
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question for atheists here.
Quote:
|
22nd February 2005, 05:09 PM | #107 |
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 15,468
|
Let me explain something:
We're not going to see much more of 1inChrist, or Kirk Fraser, or other whackjob religious trolls. Something I've learned from reading the posts on this board is that there's a lot of people here who came from religious backgrounds. There's a lot of folks here who have actually read the Bible, and actually understand what it really says, and what it's really about. Clowns like 1in, Kirk, Billiefan, or any number of other neo-Phelpsian weirdos are figuring out that you cannot BS someone who knows your game better than you. In fact, let me tell you that 1inChrist didn't come here to actually engage in a discussion with anyone. Let's assume 1in's real name is John Christian. Our man John, after his last post, probably went to his pastor, showed him what he was up to, and let it be known that he was "saddened" that all those atheists "hardened their hearts to the Truth of the Lord Jesus Christ," (yeah, I know the lingo), (especially backsliders like that Roadtoad guy), and that he would like to pray with the deacons and other senior members of the Church that perhaps some might be saved. So, on Sunday, John's pastor stands before the congregation, praising to the rafters Brother John's sacrifice of time in his effort to preach the Gospel to all creation. He tells of the horrific abuse heaped upon Brother John, as the Deacons all sit in their Preferred Pews, nodding and saying "Amen!" to the Pastor's declarations, and many weep openly as the Pastor decries the abuse heaped upon John's daughters by those "Flesh Fiends" on the JREF website. Brother John is lifted up in prayer by all his friends on Sunday, and they gather around, lay on hands, and pray to the Lord that perhaps, someday, some might see the truth. Yup, ol' John, sure looks good on Sunday. He looks good to all those folks he was told really matter. And he's certain that he'll go straight to Heaven and stand before the Lord, and be able to declare that, Yes, he did speak the truth in His name so that others might come to believe. Except, perhaps, if John had actually read the Bible, he might realize that he was called upon to serve others, not to preach to them. That he was supposed to feed the hungry, heal the sick, visit and minister to the imprisoned, and welcome the lonely. Frankly, I think John's about as much a Christian as say, Mike Warnke, or perhaps Sandi Patti. Lots of flash, not much function. And the last time I checked, that didn't fly around here. |
23rd February 2005, 06:35 AM | #108 |
Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,267
|
Um, Roadtoad, you did know, didn't you, that 1Inch's "church" is a garage and it has about 4 members!
|
__________________
"You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin |
|
23rd February 2005, 06:41 AM | #109 |
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 15,468
|
I didn't, but it wouldn't surprise me.
|
23rd February 2005, 09:11 AM | #110 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
|
Yeah, he did say several times that his church is in his garage and the preacher is his best friend. It's a typical Christian cult.
|
23rd February 2005, 09:15 AM | #111 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 8,843
|
Who you calling a dirty old man? I wash as often as you do!
Roadtoad, I take exception to that business about heaping abuse on OneInch's daughters. Although we only know what he tells us, and the daughters may be no more than paper dolls, I would never abuse them in any way. Just the opposite: I'd like to send them flowers, and bonbons with brandy centers. I'd invite them to sit on my bearskin rug by the fire - right here with your harmless old Uncle sackett, my dears. Comfy? Slip off your shoes - oh! but your little feet are cold! Let me rub them; there, isn't that nice? I'm drinking sherry; will you have a glass? Oops a daisy! Goes to one's head, doesn't it? You know, I've always sympathized with you girls: your dreadful fundamentalist upbringing, your deplorable home situation - I greatly respect your new independence. Let us all explore the fullness of life! We can live in our bodies, and for our bodies' pleasure! Yes, it's quite warm here by the fire, isn't it? Of course you can slip out of that! Don't mind me! I don't want you to feel awkward; I'll do the same. You are really most lovely, adorable young heart-breakers, do you know that? I especially like this little soft place here. And here. You can do the same things to me, you know; I won't mind.
Now where's the abuse in that? 1inchRist, are you reading this? Back me up here, brother! |
__________________
When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke. When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir. |
|
23rd February 2005, 09:18 AM | #112 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
|
We've all joked about hitting on his two "atheist" daughters.
|
23rd February 2005, 09:21 AM | #113 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 8,843
|
Sir, you have named by beloved
You keep your dirty mind off those sweet girls!
|
__________________
When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke. When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir. |
|
23rd February 2005, 07:15 PM | #114 |
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 15,468
|
I don't think it's his mind that needs to be kept off the girls...
|
24th February 2005, 10:40 AM | #115 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 871
|
What a childishly stupid question. I'm not sure if there is a term for it but perhaps "oxymoronic" fits. You are effectively asking if I would refuse to believe in God's existance if God's existance were proven. That's a bit like talking about an irresistable force meeting an immovable object. You can't accept the possiblility of either without denying the possible existance of the other. You can't state that something is "proven" and not believe it at the same time.
Let's just say I'll believe it when I see it but I truly hope that if there is a God he's nothing like you and your bible describe because that guy sounds like a nasty, petulant, vindictive, vain, irrational, greedy, short-tempered, spiteful and not very bright bully. **************** I'm very well aquainted with the seven deadly sins. I keep a busy schedule tryin' to fit them in. I'm proud to be a glutton and I don't have time for Sloth. I'm greedy and I'm angry and I don't care who I cross. I'm Mr. Bad Example, intruder in the dirt. I like to have a good time and I don't care who gets hurt. I'm Mr. Bad Example, take a look at me. I'll live to be a hundred and go down in infamy. |
25th February 2005, 07:55 PM | #116 |
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 15,468
|
|
25th February 2005, 09:20 PM | #117 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
|
Quote:
|
__________________
Sometimes going by "Nyke" | "Pascal's Wager: Believe in Unicorns, or one might kick you in the nads!" | "There is no hope for humanity. Reason is dead and we dance on the corpse. Tra la la la la!" --c4ts | Intelligent Design & Expelled Exposed | I'm on dial-up. If you want to reply to me, summarize please. |
|
26th February 2005, 04:59 PM | #118 |
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 15,468
|
Quote:
|
26th February 2005, 06:40 PM | #119 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 3,109
|
Quote:
Are you saying that Dubya is god?! |
__________________
Tony Kehoe "Most people, I believe, think that you need a God to explain the existence of the world, and especially the existence of life. They are wrong, but our education system is such that many people don't know it. "--Richard Dawkins |
|
26th February 2005, 07:01 PM | #120 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
|
Quote:
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|