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Old 31st August 2022, 12:59 PM   #1
Bob001
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The billionaires prepare their coup.

The billionaires are closer to taking over the government by Constitutional convention.
Quote:
If you think the Supreme Court overturning abortion rights in this country was radical and shocking, you ain’t seen nothing yet. There was a convention you should know about this past weekend in Denver, funded by some of the wealthiest men and foundations in America, that has received altogether too little publicity.
....
This scenario was one possible outcome of the agenda of the “Academy of States” meeting held this past Sunday at the Hyatt Regency at the Denver Convention Center. Republican state legislators from across the country were invited to attend.

If their plan works, they’ll rewrite our Constitution and state governors, the US Congress, and the President will have no say whatsoever in the process. Only state legislatures are necessary, according to Article V of the Constitution, and governors can’t veto their actions.
.....
The Republican-controlled legislatures of these states can join the legislatures of solidly red states to call a constitutional convention — 34 states are needed — to rip open our Constitution and change it as they want. When done, they’ll need 3/4ths of the states to replace our current Constitution and the President, Congress, and state governors will have no say in the process whatsoever.
.....
https://www.rawstory.com/constitution-gop/
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:27 PM   #2
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They wouldn't act so brazenly. They don't have to, yet. They currently have a shadow federal government in the form of organizations like ALEC. They can still hamstring any real change at the federal level while exerting control over the state legislatures to push their agenda. And they do that right now with barely any exposure.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:29 PM   #3
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Flynn would love to lead the Business Plot 2.0 .
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:37 PM   #4
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It can't be a Secret Cabal if it starts out not being secret.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:38 PM   #5
Bob001
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It can't be a Secret Cabal if it starts out not being secret.
Nothing secret about it. All in plain view -- and legal.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:40 PM   #6
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"The constitution is overdue for a rewrite, and we should change it!"

"You mean like convince a majority of legislators in a majority of states to open the constitution for editing, and see if they can come up with something palatable to the majority of them?"

"Huh?"

"You know, one of the constitutional methods for changing the constitution?"

"Oh. Yeah, sure. Let's do that!"

"Great! Here we go!"

"NO! Stop! That's not what I meant at all!"

---

This sounds like a job for George Soros, perhaps. Like they say, the only way to stop a bad guy with a billion dollars is a good guy with a billion dollars.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:42 PM   #7
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"We should fix the henhouse"

"you mean tear down the broken wall and put up a new one?"

"Yes"

"OK, the fox here will do that"
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:59 PM   #8
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Nothing secret about it. All in plain view -- and legal.
And ridiculous posturing by a rich boy's frat house.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
"We should fix the henhouse"

"you mean tear down the broken wall and put up a new one?"

"Yes"

"OK, the fox here will do that"
The state legislators, you mean? They're the foxes?
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:03 PM   #10
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SOmoone where just does not like big business very much.
Wonder what he would replace it with.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:14 PM   #11
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I guess I don't understand what part is supposed to be the coup. Anyone can call a constitutional convention any time they want. It's still up to the state legislators to decide if their state is going to show up.

And one really really good thing about the Internet is the degree to which it democratizes information and activism. Anyone can write a constitutional amendment or a whole-ass brand new constitution, post it online, and drum up awareness and support via social media. The convention is not required to only consider some oligarch's draft.

In fact, I think that if a constitutional convention did happen, the amount of hype, the number of competing drafts from different interest groups and coalitions from unions to social clubs would very quickly swamp whatever influence this particular interest group was hoping to buy with their billions.

We already know that political donations have a pretty severe problem with diminishing returns, and that they generally struggle to buy success for ideas or candidates that don't already have some measure of public support.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOmoone where just does not like big business very much.
Wonder what he would replace it with.

No one would replace "big business." What's the alternative? The writer and others would like to see, among other things, tougher anti-monopoly and anti-trust enforcement, stronger workplace and union protections, and renewed restrictions on corporate campaign donations.

By the same writer:
Quote:
That year [1982-ed.] (as it had been since the 1930s) most of this nation’s business activity was centered in the cash registers of our small- and medium-sized companies. The total value of America’s largest corporations — those listed on stock exchanges — was equal to just 39.4% of the entire nation’s economic activity or GDP in 1981.
....
As a result, large companies became behemoths, and pretty much every industry in America is today dominated by a small handful of companies that carefully monitor each other to function, essentially, as cartels. When United raises ticket prices by $50, for example, American does the same three hours later.

Which is why today the total value of America’s exchange-listed corporations is 194.9% of GDP, elbowing out most small- and medium-sized companies.
https://www.rawstory.com/big-business-democrats/
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:29 PM   #13
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Replace ALL Big Business with small business.
Most problems with the US economy are the result of nonexistent monopoly busting and the resulting regulatory capture.
You can either have a Market Economy or Big Business, but not both.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I guess I don't understand what part is supposed to be the coup. Anyone can call a constitutional convention any time they want. It's still up to the state legislators to decide if their state is going to show up.
.....

The writer's claim is that red-state legislatures could call a Constitutional convention and adopt a new Constitution by a vote of three-fourths of the states' legislatures about which neither the Congress, the President, their own governors nor -- especially -- the voters would have anything to say.
Quote:
The Republican-controlled legislatures of these states can join the legislatures of solidly red states to call a constitutional convention — 34 states are needed — to rip open our Constitution and change it as they want. When done, they’ll need 3/4ths of the states to replace our current Constitution and the President, Congress, and state governors will have no say in the process whatsoever.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The writer's claim is that red-state legislatures could call a Constitutional convention and adopt a new Constitution by a vote of three-fourths of the states' legislatures about which neither the Congress, the President, their own governors nor -- especially -- the voters would have anything to say.
So these wanna-be nobles will gather together in one place? Sounds like a target rich environment
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The writer's claim is that red-state legislatures could call a Constitutional convention and adopt a new Constitution by a vote of three-fourths of the states' legislatures about which neither the Congress, the President, their own governors nor -- especially -- the voters would have anything to say.
Yep. That's written into the current Constitution. Calling a constitutional convention is the easy part. 2/3 of the states' legislatures can call for one. The harder part is ratification which requires 3/4. Good luck on that.

So far, the 2/3 requirement has not been met in 2+ centuries. For 3/4 of the states to agree on a final version would require even larger areas of agreement.

Talk about the snowball in hell.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
.....
Talk about the snowball in hell.
Famous last words.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The writer's claim is that red-state legislatures could call a Constitutional convention and adopt a new Constitution by a vote of three-fourths of the states' legislatures about which neither the Congress, the President, their own governors nor -- especially -- the voters would have anything to say.
They voters elected their legislators. That's their say.

Why on earth would the president have the power to stop the states from reworking their agreement to form a union? Or Congress, for that matter?
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
Yep. That's written into the current Constitution. Calling a constitutional convention is the easy part. 2/3 of the states' legislatures can call for one. The harder part is ratification which requires 3/4. Good luck on that.

So far, the 2/3 requirement has not been met in 2+ centuries. For 3/4 of the states to agree on a final version would require even larger areas of agreement.

Talk about the snowball in hell.
13 state legislatures could sink it. If the GQP gets control of 38 state legislatures, they have plenty of ways to pull off a coup, this is just one of them.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:21 PM   #20
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What if Trump's conspiracy was way bigger than we know?
From Raw Story
BY Thom Hartmann-August 30, 2022

Quote:
There was, it increasingly appears, a conspiracy involving some in the most senior levels of the Trump administration to end American representative democracy and replace it with a strongman oligarchy along the lines of Putin’s Russia or Orbán’s Hungary.

This would be followed, after the January 20th swearing-in of Trump for a second term, by a complete realignment of US foreign policy away from NATO and the EU and toward oligarchic, autocratic nations like Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and Hungary.

As the possibility of this traitorous plan becomes increasingly visible, the GOP, after a frantic two weeks of not knowing what to say or do, has finally settled on a response to Trump’s theft of classified information: “Hillary did the same thing, and she didn’t go to jail!” I heard the comparison made at least a half-dozen times this weekend on various political shows. . . .
I am not sure this all checks out. But it is scary if true.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-sedit...4HK4I#cxrecs_s
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:24 PM   #21
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Shades of Smedly Butler.

Eta: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
13 state legislatures could sink it. If the GQP gets control of 38 state legislatures, they have plenty of ways to pull off a coup, this is just one of them.
A majority viewpoint, in a majority of states, via the ballot box, seems like pretty much the opposite of a coup.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:36 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
What if Trump's conspiracy was way bigger than we know?
From Raw Story
BY Thom Hartmann-August 30, 2022



I am not sure this all checks out. But it is scary if true.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-sedit...4HK4I#cxrecs_s
I read the whole article. Everyone here should. It is frightening to consider what might have happened if The Mad Ketchup Thrower and his henchmen had been smarter and more competent.

Of course, to the True Believers, this is all just fake news, lies, speculation, garbage, and LOCK HER AND BIDEN UP!!!
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Shades of Smedly Butler.

Eta: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
A true P.O.S. who should have swung from the end of a rope.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A majority viewpoint, in a majority of states, via the ballot box, seems like pretty much the opposite of a coup.
State legislatures are often heavily gerrymandered. It's a mistake to imagine that a majority of state legislators represent a majority of voters. To take one recent example, poll after poll indicates that most Americans generally support the right to obtain a legal abortion, even as red-state legislatures pass the most draconian forced-birth laws. There's no reason to believe a wildly rewritten Constitution would represent the will of a majority of Americans. And a new Constitution would be an all-or-nothing proposition. There would be no debate about specific provisions or revisions. Consider also that you would also have what amounts to the Electoral College problem: A majority of states, even 3/4, might still represent a minority of Americans.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:48 PM   #26
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I don't have an Electoral College problem,as I actually understand the nature of the union in question.

This really sounds like it should be in the CT subforum.
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Old 31st August 2022, 04:05 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't have an Electoral College problem,as I actually understand the nature of the union in question.

This really sounds like it should be in the CT subforum.
No CT here. Facts are facts. And it sounds like you'll be fine with state legislatures overruling their election results and imposing their own slates of Electors. That's what could be coming.
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Old 31st August 2022, 04:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No CT here. Facts are facts. And it sounds like you'll be fine with state legislatures overruling their election results and imposing their own slates of Electors. That's what could be coming.
What facts?
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Old 31st August 2022, 04:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Replace ALL Big Business with small business.
Most problems with the US economy are the result of nonexistent monopoly busting and the resulting regulatory capture.
You can either have a Market Economy or Big Business, but not both.
That some industries require a pretty large organization just to make the product seems to have flown you by.
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Old 31st August 2022, 04:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That some industries require a pretty large organization just to make the product seems to have flown you by.
TGZ hates microchips, obvs.
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Old 31st August 2022, 07:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
TGZ hates microchips, obvs.
It's fine if you can live with a microchip the size of a Buick.
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Old 31st August 2022, 09:13 PM   #32
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A company doesn't have to have the size of Intel to make microchips.

Historically, a number of smaller companies in a sector leads to way more innovation than having very few very big ones.
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Old 1st September 2022, 01:13 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
A true P.O.S. who should have swung from the end of a rope.
Nah, Ol' Smedley was a pretty cool dude for a military man.
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Old 1st September 2022, 06:45 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
A true P.O.S. who should have swung from the end of a rope.
If he is to be believed, he may have saved the country from an actual coup. There's a lot of horrible stuff in his bio, but this ain't it. I think he's one of the people that need to be taught to school children—his sins and virtues.
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Old 1st September 2022, 07:38 AM   #35
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Thom Hartmann? 9-11 Truther Thom Hartmann? JFK assassination conspiracy theorist Thom Hartmann?

Phew, for a second I thought this was something serious!
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Old 1st September 2022, 07:43 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
They wouldn't act so brazenly. They don't have to, yet. They currently have a shadow federal government in the form of organizations like ALEC. They can still hamstring any real change at the federal level while exerting control over the state legislatures to push their agenda. And they do that right now with barely any exposure.
I agree completely and sums up how I look at it. Large corporations and the super wealthy already have plenty of access and control. I'm doubtful they would get much more control in this kind of gambit and risk losing a lot if a populist leader with a large enough following got control of the movement.
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Old 1st September 2022, 08:02 AM   #37
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Drleted... Because too petty.
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Old 1st September 2022, 08:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by seayakin View Post
I agree completely and sums up how I look at it. Large corporations and the super wealthy already have plenty of access and control. I'm doubtful they would get much more control in this kind of gambit and risk losing a lot if a populist leader with a large enough following got control of the movement.
Corporations and politicians generally suck at starting movements anyway.
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Old 1st September 2022, 08:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
A company doesn't have to have the size of Intel to make microchips.

Historically, a number of smaller companies in a sector leads to way more innovation than having very few very big ones.
The idea of "Big Business" is not the same thing as the idea of "a big business" anyway. It's more about behavior than size. Monopolistic behavior where scale and capitalization are used to drive away competition in order to reach a point where the corporation is big enough to dictate public policy in it's favor.

I think the main problem is at some point moneyed interests managed to change the idea behind antitrust legislation. They've convinced the public that it is about consumer well being when the historical basis for it is that people didn't want businesses to have so much power that they effectively run the government.
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Old 1st September 2022, 09:53 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Corporations and politicians generally suck at starting movements anyway.
But when they hit, they hit big. ex Neo-Liberalism, the post-War Christian revival movement, the Tea Party, there's a few examples
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