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Old 19th September 2022, 05:45 AM   #1041
Nessie
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Like to see some evidence that this is making a profit for us.
Meaning it is making money for many businesses, particularly in London, who pay tax etc etc. It is not as simple of the tax payer hands over money and gets nothing in return.
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Old 19th September 2022, 05:49 AM   #1042
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Meaning it is making money for many businesses, particularly in London, who pay tax etc etc. It is not as simple of the tax payer hands over money and gets nothing in return.
You mean the businesses that are all closed for the day?

And again Iíd like to see some evidence that this is turning a profit for us.
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Old 19th September 2022, 05:50 AM   #1043
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You know, nobody ever goes to Versailles, because the French don't have a monarch any more...
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:01 AM   #1044
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
A prize to the first person who can tell me what the Queen died of.

I think she died of a Thursday.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:02 AM   #1045
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You mean the businesses that are all closed for the day?

And again Iíd like to see some evidence that this is turning a profit for us.
Me too.

As a simple country mouse I find London very, very busy. I would not be shocked to find that whilst there is quite a crowd for the funeral and attendant ceremonies, it is far fewer people than would normally be travelling to London for work, business or pleasure on a typical Monday morning in September.

I'd also think that per-capita spend is quite low for a funeral.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:04 AM   #1046
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The monarchy makes money. London is packed and making a fortune.

I hear a lot of hotels are packed with police brought in from outside London.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:05 AM   #1047
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Me too.

As a simple country mouse I find London very, very busy. I would not be shocked to find that whilst there is quite a crowd for the funeral and attendant ceremonies, it is far fewer people than would normally be travelling to London for work, business or pleasure on a typical Monday morning in September.

I'd also think that per-capita spend is quite low for a funeral.
I'm sure, however, that there will be a renewed interest world-wide in people visiting as tourists over the next couple of years due to TV coverage of the pageantry.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:17 AM   #1048
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I have to hand it to the Brits. I can't see any large group of Americans maintaining such silence and respect for such a length of time.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:20 AM   #1049
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Anybody here going to watch the funeral?
It seems I alone amongst my circle of friends and family love all of this stuff. I have a bottle of Cava in the fridge - not very appropriate for a funeral, I know (the Ä70 champagne remains intact in case of a very very special occasion) - and have had a snack of cheese toast with best English cheddar (for the taste, not the patriotism).


Highlight for me so far has been the naval ratings absolutely foot perfect. Really impressive. They look a bit like a crate of milk cartons from a distance. This gun carriage tradition came about because Queen Victoria decided she wanted a military themed state funeral. However, her coffin got stuck - on top of the gun carriage - when a holding came loose from the vehicle, and the funeral march came to a halt. The naval guys nearby yanked the gun carriage free of the hearse and dragged the wretched thing up the hill by pulling it on ropes. That tradition has persisted ever since.

I note with amusement they have stuck the extra tall guys immediately at the back and in front of the gun carriage. ('Oi, you, Smith, Brown, Baker, Bailey, Higginbottom and Grimesthorpe! Your being over 6'6", you go there! Yes, SIR!!!). I note there are a couple of guys to the side even taller than them.

In addition, thank you, Canada, for sending along your beautiful noble handsome beasts to grace this auspicious event. (I am talking about the horses, silly, not the Mounties on top...but hmmm....come to think of it...)
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:29 AM   #1050
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I think she died of a Thursday.
I heard her truss strangled her.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:32 AM   #1051
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Iím watching for two reasons. I was a choir boy and I love listening to good choirs. And the Brits do pomp and ceremony very well.

But tell me, who is the geezer sitting next to Anne? My wife insists itís her husband, but surely he is decades younger.
It's her (2nd) husband, Tim Lawrence.

I love choral music, especially Welsh, Cornish and Irish choirs who really know how to do tear jerking and maudlin stuff with sobbing tears running down one's face and chest clenching.

I was pleased to see the Queen selected as one of her funeral hymns, 'The day thou gavest', as it is also one of my favourites, with five or six versions of it*. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a Finnish version of it to use at my mother's funeral. It is one of those great English hymns that starts with a soft fine, beautifully lilting melody that strikes all of the right heartstrings, and culminates in a crashing, full-throated, organ bashing crescendo, although, alas, no trumpets. (For example, Land of Hope and Glory, Holy Holy Holy, Immortal invisible, etcetera, etcetera).

*I can recommend the version by the Marlborough College Chapel Choir. Really sweet treble voices (or perhaps they are those of teenage girls).
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:34 AM   #1052
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
A prize to the first person who can tell me what the Queen died of.
'Peacefully' is the correct nomenclature. Kings and Queens are divine, and as such, do not die of mortal illnesses.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:39 AM   #1053
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
A prize to the first person who can tell me what the Queen died of.
Old people die. There has yet to be one that bucked that trend. Details are not very relevant for any of them.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:42 AM   #1054
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If it's just about profit then turn the thing into a literal living history theme park, stop pretending it's a valid and sane part of a functioning democracy in 2022.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:48 AM   #1055
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
A prize to the first person who can tell me what the Queen died of.
Complications following a Brazilian butt lift.
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Old 19th September 2022, 06:59 AM   #1056
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You mean the businesses that are all closed for the day?

And again Iíd like to see some evidence that this is turning a profit for us.
OK, it was an unevidenced general comment that is probably wrong, sorry.
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Old 19th September 2022, 07:16 AM   #1057
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Complications following a Brazilian butt lift.
Even though the exact same thing happened to Philip, she just wouldn't take no for an answer.
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Old 19th September 2022, 07:28 AM   #1058
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Two English couples sat near us asking each other if they "watched it?" My answer of "**** no" was loaded but not required.

A tour of the Bardini and Boboli gardens, if you must know
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Old 19th September 2022, 07:45 AM   #1059
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Two English couples sat near us asking each other if they "watched it?" My answer of "**** no" was loaded but not required.

A tour of the Bardini and Boboli gardens, if you must know
If they were speaking to each other why would you even consider an "answer"? Do you have a tendency to butt into the conversations of others?
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Old 19th September 2022, 07:56 AM   #1060
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Ad free live feed on some of the major US networks (not Fox or CBS) has been going on for hours.

All the discussion in this thread about the cost, propriety, modern relevance, etc. has been interesting but, apparently it falls to me to tell y'all, not particularly pertinent.

What it comes down to is, the passing and replacement of a long-reigning monarch is a liminal event. You fill the liminal interval with this kind of ritual, so that the world doesn't spin off its axis.
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:09 AM   #1061
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Bloody hell - they are moving that damn coffin again - I think the idea is that everyone in the UK and most of the commonwealth will get a chance to be a pallbearer!
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:14 AM   #1062
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Bloody hell - they are moving that damn coffin again - I think the idea is that everyone in the UK and most of the commonwealth will get a chance to be a pallbearer!
There is a tendency at almost all funerals to move a coffin to its final location. Do you think this coffin should be an exception?
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:21 AM   #1063
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I will say I found the move of the coffin, along with the accompanying pageantry, to be quite hypnotic, both on the ground transport and the hearse transport. Now that the service has moved inside the church, I'm tuning the TV to something else.
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:38 AM   #1064
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Old people die. There has yet to be one that bucked that trend. Details are not very relevant for any of them.
Considering that she was conducting her normal official business in front of media without apparent impairment two days before she died, it's a fair question. "Being old" doesn't usually appear on the death certificate.
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:40 AM   #1065
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The roads around here were very quiet car-wise but there were a lot of cyclists taking advantage of those quiet roads.
How very disrespectful.

British Cycling, cycling's governing body in the UK, said that out of respect for Her Majesty the Queen people should not ride bikes during the period of national mourning.

Following widespread ridicule they later backed off and said 'We understand that the decision on whether to cycle during that time is one for individuals.'
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:49 AM   #1066
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Considering that she was conducting her normal official business in front of media without apparent impairment two days before she died, it's a fair question. "Being old" doesn't usually appear on the death certificate.
Not following why the question is "fair". Seems to me it is a need-to-know issue.
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:50 AM   #1067
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The crown got removed and the stick and ball placed on the coffin. Now the crown went back. You can't take it with you! Oh, orb and scepter.

The ex-prince did some thing with a red cloth. His sword is dragging lightly on the floor as he walks.
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:56 AM   #1068
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It is possible to put "old age" on a death certificate. That's what Shipman did with his victims to circumvent awkward questions - which didn't arise even though some of them were hale and hearty and planning holidays a couple of days before they were murdered.

I'll bet they put something like that on Liz's certificate to choke off unseemly gossip and preserve medical confidentiality.

(The doctor certifying my mother's death got it fairly wrong, although my cousin advised me not to make a fuss at the time. So I wouldn't take any death certificate as gospel truth.)
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Old 19th September 2022, 08:58 AM   #1069
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I hear a lot of hotels are packed with police brought in from outside London.
Central London completely packed with police from all over the country. Useless for asking directions naturally but absolutely charming to talk to unlike the surly Met cops.

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Old 19th September 2022, 09:04 AM   #1070
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Yep. There is always an actual medical event connected to a death. In the case of rather old people the exact details become somewhat less relevant. And such details are frequently determined/confirmed by autopsy. I doubt that an autopsy was performed on the queen.

OT but has got me thinking - my mother, 88 yo, is in hospice and will likely die soon. She has all the paperwork in place for Medical Assistance In Dying. If she chooses to invoke that process it will be interesting to see how her official cause of death will be worded.
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Old 19th September 2022, 09:08 AM   #1071
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But tell me, who is the geezer sitting next to Anne? My wife insists itís her husband, but surely he is decades younger.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's her (2nd) husband, Tim Lawrence.
Tim Lawrence is 5 years younger than Anne.

In some pictures Anne is sitting next to her younger brother Price Edward, the Duke of Wessex. He is 15 years her junior.
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Old 19th September 2022, 10:13 AM   #1072
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Not following why the question is "fair". Seems to me it is a need-to-know issue.
Considering that she was one of the most public figures in the world, there is a broad need to know. Old or not, she was as vulnerable as anybody else to bad medical care, prescription errors, a fall down stairs, even elder abuse. If the President died in his sleep, you can bet "he was old" wouldn't be accepted by anybody.
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Old 19th September 2022, 10:25 AM   #1073
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Considering that she was one of the most public figures in the world, there is a broad need to know.
I'm sure there is a broad interest to know. Not so sure that it is a need.

The Palace is famously unwilling to discuss any Royal medical matters so your need to know may go unsatisfied. The death certificate of the Queen's husband Prince Philip, certified by Sir Huw Thomas, head of the Royal Medical Household, stated the cause of his death as "old age".
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Old 19th September 2022, 10:26 AM   #1074
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Considering that she was one of the most public figures in the world, there is a broad need to know. Old or not, she was as vulnerable as anybody else to bad medical care, prescription errors, a fall down stairs, even elder abuse. If the President died in his sleep, you can bet "he was old" wouldn't be accepted by anybody.
I have little doubt that those that actually need to know already do. The public at large have no such need. Merely a vicarious desire.

If your almost 80 yo president died in his sleep my personal response would be meh. But in the USA that would become an instant political free-for-all in which the truth would count little and half the country would not believe any explanation.
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Old 19th September 2022, 10:41 AM   #1075
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I have little doubt that those that actually need to know already do. The public at large have no such need. Merely a vicarious desire.

If your almost 80 yo president died in his sleep my personal response would be meh. But in the USA that would become an instant political free-for-all in which the truth would count little and half the country would not believe any explanation.
I think most Americans would accept the results of an autopsy, most likely conducted at Bethesda Naval Hospital. But there would be an autopsy, and the results would be released.
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Old 19th September 2022, 10:56 AM   #1076
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Considering that she was one of the most public figures in the world, there is a broad need to know.
There really isn't: her immediate family might need to know, but the rest of us? Not in the slightest. It's just prurient. Like most of the rest of this sodding circus.
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Old 19th September 2022, 11:05 AM   #1077
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Considering that she was one of the most public figures in the world, there is a broad need to know. Old or not, she was as vulnerable as anybody else to bad medical care, prescription errors, a fall down stairs, even elder abuse. If the President died in his sleep, you can bet "he was old" wouldn't be accepted by anybody.
As it happens I'm deep into a UK drama series (Silent Witness) that revolves around the work of pathologists assisting the cops to solve crimes etc etc. Many will have watched this series and the idea that QEII might be sliced up in such a manner to determine the exact cause of death would cause outrage. If there's any mystery about it, or suspicion of foul play. then maybe, but this is not such a case. She was very old.
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Old 19th September 2022, 11:11 AM   #1078
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If the US president died in his sleep, there would surely be some mystery about it. And he's not 96. If there was a genuine mystery then a post mortem would become reasonable.

We don't know what was going on in the days and weeks before Liz's death. Even though she was still apparently active in a small way and carried out some minor duties, it's entirely possible that she had been diagnosed with something that was expected to be life-limiting in the shorter rather than the longer term. It probably wasn't expected to happen quite so quickly, or her family would have been a bit closer, but it's highly likely it was a surprise to exactly nobody. Nobody does a post mortem on a 96 year old who hasn't died in mysterious circumstances.
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Old 19th September 2022, 11:15 AM   #1079
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That crowd was so white it was almost blinding! Might have seen one or two other people of color other than Meghan.
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Old 19th September 2022, 11:21 AM   #1080
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
If the US president died in his sleep, there would surely be some mystery about it. And he's not 96. If there was a genuine mystery then a post mortem would become reasonable.

We don't know what was going on in the days and weeks before Liz's death. Even though she was still apparently active in a small way and carried out some minor duties, it's entirely possible that she had been diagnosed with something that was expected to be life-limiting in the shorter rather than the longer term. It probably wasn't expected to happen quite so quickly, or her family would have been a bit closer, but it's highly likely it was a surprise to exactly nobody. Nobody does a post mortem on a 96 year old who hasn't died in mysterious circumstances.
Concise summary. I agree.
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