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Old 23rd September 2022, 10:52 AM   #1761
Lukraak_Sisser
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Bah, it's clear Bastet is vastly superior. Only when the Egyptians lost their faith in the True Goddess and her messengers did their civilization collapse. Bastet worship lasted millennia longer than this insignificant upstart called Allah.

Only once She is properly worshiped again shall the true kingdom of the Nile return.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 11:49 AM   #1762
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
This is not prayer. This is salat. They are different.
Salat is just the Arabic word for prayer. The ritual may be different, but the concept is the same, as is the aim.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 01:01 PM   #1763
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
This is not prayer. This is salat. They are different.

In the Quran, pray is the easiest. You can pray even lying on your side. You don't even need to close the door.

The explanation I have given in the link is to salaat/namaz.

Salaat includes praying also.
This is very important.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 02:19 PM   #1764
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
This is very important.

No it isn’t.
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Old 23rd September 2022, 10:56 PM   #1765
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Be careful of this. It has not worked out very well for those of the Baháʼí Faith.
Sorry, I don't get your point.
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Old 24th September 2022, 12:22 AM   #1766
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
This is not prayer. This is salat. They are different.

In the Quran, pray is the easiest. You can pray even lying on your side. You don't even need to close the door.

The explanation I have given in the link is to salaat/namaz.

Salaat includes praying also.
So let me get this straight.

In typical Islam, specific body positions and movements and direction of facing are important when praying. And it is very important to repeat these movements multiple times per day. Or else you are not a true Muslim.

But you are saying that as long as you think about Allah at some point in your waking hours, it doesn't really matter what you are doing. You could be sleeping, having a bath, cooking a meal. Completely the opposite of a typical Muslim.

Is that what you are saying here?
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Old 24th September 2022, 02:51 AM   #1767
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So let me get this straight.

In typical Islam, specific body positions and movements and direction of facing are important when praying.

Is that what you are saying here?
No, you haven't read the link, again.

I am saying that salaat/namaz and prayer are different, and I am giving the article that explains how salaat should be performed according to the verses. If you read what is written, you would not make such funny questions and comments.

I am giving the link again:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.p...6026#msg436026
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Old 24th September 2022, 04:01 AM   #1768
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So let me get this straight.

In typical Islam, specific body positions and movements and direction of facing are important when praying.

Is that what you are saying here?
No, you haven't read the link, again.

I am saying that salaat/namaz and prayer are different, and I am giving the article that explains how salaat should be performed according to the verses. If you read what is written, you would not make such funny questions and comments.

I am giving the link again:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.p...6026#msg436026
So you ARE saying that specific body positions and movements and direction of facing are important? I'm trying to learn here.
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Old 24th September 2022, 04:03 AM   #1769
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So you ARE saying that specific body positions and movements and direction of facing are important? I'm trying to learn here.
Yes, read please.
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Old 24th September 2022, 04:45 AM   #1770
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Emre, do you pray 5 times a day?
If you do, do you face Mecca?
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Old 24th September 2022, 05:02 AM   #1771
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Emre, do you pray 5 times a day?
If you do, do you face Mecca?
Yes, but 3 times. Read the article.

And pray alot of times. Salaat is not only pray/dua. They are different terms.

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 24th September 2022 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 24th September 2022, 05:18 AM   #1772
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Yes, but 3 times. Read the article.

And pray alot of times. Salaat is not only pray/dua. They are different terms.
And only during salaat do you turn towards Mecca. But when you only pray, there is no need for any direction.

You can pray by turning in any direction, even lying down if you want.

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 24th September 2022 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 24th September 2022, 06:08 AM   #1773
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And only during salaat do you turn towards Mecca. But when you only pray, there is no need for any direction.

You can pray by turning in any direction, even lying down if you want.
But you just finished telling me above that body positions and movements and direction of facing ARE important. I asked you to be clear. So which is it? You need to follow the formula? Or you need not bother following the formula. Pick one only.
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:45 AM   #1774
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Sorry, I don't get your point.
Sorry. It is a bit skewed. All I was trying to say that revising the Moslem religion has not worked out well for the Baháʼís.
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Old 24th September 2022, 09:02 AM   #1775
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Yes, but

We must consider taalas and mazan. And do we not face Accem? And yet are we uduw?

maru'Q is read by the riffek!! And do they pray? All things fack &.borth, Halla he created meth!

By Dammahom's henna beard, it is hard to write or right, or yet rite in reverse!
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Old 24th September 2022, 09:33 AM   #1776
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
But you just finished telling me above that body positions and movements and direction of facing ARE important. I asked you to be clear. So which is it? You need to follow the formula? Or you need not bother following the formula. Pick one only.
He's saying there is a difference between the three/five* times a day ritual and actual prayer.

*increased early on to appeal to Zoarastrian converts as the Arabs swept across persia , I understand, hence Emre's objections
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:19 PM   #1777
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
He's saying there is a difference between the three/five* times a day ritual and actual prayer.

*increased early on to appeal to Zoarastrian converts as the Arabs swept across persia , I understand, hence Emre's objections
In Islam, they are the same.
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:45 PM   #1778
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
In Islam, they are the same.
Could you cite whatever it is that has confused you?
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:55 PM   #1779
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Could you cite whatever it is that has confused you?
Nothing. The confused one seems to be our OP.
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Old 24th September 2022, 01:56 PM   #1780
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nothing. The confused one seems to be our OP.
But you seem to be saying there is only one form of prayer in Islam and that is definitely not true.
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Old 24th September 2022, 02:01 PM   #1781
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
But you seem to be saying there is only one form of prayer in Islam and that is definitely not true.
I'm not the one saying that, he is. Consistency is not his watchword.
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Old 24th September 2022, 03:14 PM   #1782
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Fasting, going on pilgrimage, salaat are not prayers.

These acts of worship include prayer, but they are not themselves prayer.

Salaat is not praying.

If anyone still doesn't understand, please contact me via private message and don't humiliate yourself further on the forum.

Peace
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Old 24th September 2022, 03:46 PM   #1783
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
...As for salat, only the Qur'an tells you how to salat correctly...
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
This is not prayer. This is salat. They are different...The explanation I have given in the link is to salaat/namaz.

Salaat includes praying also.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
...I am saying that salaat/namaz and prayer are different...
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
...And pray alot of times. Salaat is not only pray/dua. They are different terms.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And only during salaat do you turn towards Mecca. But when you only pray, there is no need for any direction...
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Fasting, going on pilgrimage, salaat are not prayers.

These acts of worship include prayer, but they are not themselves prayer.

Salaat is not praying...
Why did 'salat' become 'salaat'? What's the difference? Is there a difference?

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm not the one saying that, he is. Consistency is not his watchword.
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Old 24th September 2022, 04:16 PM   #1784
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Originally Posted by junkshop View Post
Why did 'salat' become 'salaat'? What's the difference? Is there a difference?
No.

Salat, salaat, namaz...Same.
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Old 24th September 2022, 04:31 PM   #1785
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No.

Salat, salaat, namaz...Same.
OK, cool. If the spelling, (or even the word) used is so unimportant, then I'm gonna go with goobledygook.

It nakes a change from woo.
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Old 24th September 2022, 07:32 PM   #1786
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Only if you are willing to lie.
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Previously you were talking about atheists, who believe no gods exist.
I guess I am not the only one who is lying.
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Old 24th September 2022, 11:49 PM   #1787
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Fasting, going on pilgrimage, salaat are not prayers.

These acts of worship include prayer, but they are not themselves prayer.

Salaat is not praying.

If anyone still doesn't understand, please contact me via private message and don't humiliate yourself further on the forum.

Peace
Why does a god need worship at all?
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:01 AM   #1788
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Originally Posted by junkshop View Post
Why did 'salat' become 'salaat'? What's the difference? Is there a difference?

Without bothering to find my Arabic dictionary, I believe both are transliterations of an Arabic word containing a consonant that doesn’t exist in English. In one case it is ignored, and in the other it is given as a double a. The word is the same.
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:28 AM   #1789
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Why does a god need worship at all?

So that the people who invented the god can be venerated.
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Old 25th September 2022, 03:13 AM   #1790
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Why does a god need worship at all?
These are our needs, not God's.

Both material and spiritual.

Just like eating or art...

He who does the acts of worship is doing himself a favor. Those who do not do them are wronging themselves.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:21 AM   #1791
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
These are our needs, not God's.

Exactly. People invent gods to comfort themselves, or because they want an unquestionable source of authority.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:40 AM   #1792
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
These are our needs, not God's.

Both material and spiritual.

Just like eating or art...

He who does the acts of worship is doing himself a favor. Those who do not do them are wronging themselves.
So, not worshiping your god will have no consequences for those that do not do so should it exist?

In that case, what's the point of the Quran and Mohammed? If your god does not care about worship, why bother with a book that says how to worship?
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:45 AM   #1793
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Bah, it's clear Bastet is vastly superior. Only when the Egyptians lost their faith in the True Goddess and her messengers did their civilization collapse. Bastet worship lasted millennia longer than this insignificant upstart called Allah.

Only once She is properly worshiped again shall the true kingdom of the Nile return.
Leonard agrees. He and his fellow felines are still devout.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:46 AM   #1794
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
This is very important.
No it's nonsensical drivel.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:48 AM   #1795
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Emre, do you pray 5 times a day?
If you do, do you face Mecca?
And is the direction correct, given the Earth is an oblate spheroid?
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:32 AM   #1796
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"Face east! Face toward Mecca!"
"What if you're east of Mecca?"
[Brief pause.] "Then face around the world toward Mecca!"
"Isn't that just mooning Mecca?"
[Romantic melody on soundtrack.]

"Moon over Mecca, Mecca and the moooooon!
Stoning Satan in the afternoooooooon!
Circling the Ka'aba, oh! how many times!
Sunstroke convulsions in Arabian climes!
I swoooon
Over Mecca upon
My
Arabiaaaan
Duuuuuuuuuuune!"

[Segue to lively drum solo. Enter dance troupe, the Medina Bumboys.]

"There goes a ninfidel!
You say he's not dead?
Well pull out yer sword
'N off with his HEAD!"

[Keep it up for 90 minutes and you have a movie.]
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Old 25th September 2022, 09:01 AM   #1797
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
"Face east! Face toward Mecca!"
"What if you're east of Mecca?"
[Brief pause.] "Then face around the world toward Mecca!"
"Isn't that just mooning Mecca?"
[Romantic melody on soundtrack.]

"Moon over Mecca, Mecca and the moooooon!
Stoning Satan in the afternoooooooon!
Circling the Ka'aba, oh! how many times!
Sunstroke convulsions in Arabian climes!
I swoooon
Over Mecca upon
My
Arabiaaaan
Duuuuuuuuuuune!"

[Segue to lively drum solo. Enter dance troupe, the Medina Bumboys.]

"There goes a ninfidel!
You say he's not dead?
Well pull out yer sword
'N off with his HEAD!"

[Keep it up for 90 minutes and you have a movie.]
Monty Python and the Holey Kaaba?
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Old 25th September 2022, 10:23 AM   #1798
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Monty Python and the Holey Kaaba?
Hope, Crosby, and L'Amour. The Road to Mohammad's.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:56 PM   #1799
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And only during salaat do you turn towards Mecca. But when you only pray, there is no need for any direction.

You can pray by turning in any direction, even lying down if you want.

Tell me Emre, have you ever thought of visiting a place in French Polynesia near the island of Fakamaru?

The place is directly opposite Mecca on the globe so you can pray (salaat) in any direction as the distance to Mecca is the same. Mind you, strictly speaking, you should pray facing down, unless you think your prayer will orbit the earth (under gravitational influence) to reach Mecca.
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Old 29th September 2022, 03:12 PM   #1800
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So, I notice Emre is not inclined to tackle the subject, about the absurdity of facing towards Mecca from all over the globe. Pity, because it is a clear example of the absurdity of this requirement, given that the Earth is spheroidal. Clearly the minds behind this, thought the Earth was flat.
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