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Tags DeSantis , electioneering , florida , immigration

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Old 28th September 2022, 05:25 PM   #761
Warp12
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

Just as I predicted, the posts are getting more idiotic and unfounded. This happens in other threads, but it seems worse in this one for some reason. I think it's because it is so hard for some to admit that these migrants crossed into the US illegally.

Originally Posted by Warp12
Because at no point am I asserting that the law deems these migrants illegal after they have sought asylum. Nor am I claiming that those who seek asylum at legal ports of entry are illegals.

The only shifting of the goalposts has been the sudden assertion that the latest debate has something to do with asylum seekers in total, even those who enter through a legal port of entry.
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Old 28th September 2022, 05:46 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
No, I'm not saying US immigration law is anti-refugee or anti-immigration. Not at all. I'm also agreeing with you that application for asylum necessarily involves illegal entry. So just settle, petal.
No, asked if you thought "I" was anti-immigration/asylum, not the US immigration.

Quote:
I raised other countries and the UN discussion simply to show that the USA does not operate in isolation of other countries with its treatment of asylum seekers. Nor has it been consistent or even logical, from time to time.
This is true.

Quote:
For example, the treatment of asylum seekers who arrive by plane seems to be somewhat different than those at the southern border. Should I as an Australian arrive on a flight at LAX and apply for asylum at the passport control, I would probably not be granted it despite being white, English-speaking, non-criminal, non-poor, and well educated and employable. It would be refused because there is no possibility of refoulment should the application be refused. Also, good joke, koala bear, kangaroo, move along, have a nice day.
How is an asylum seeker treated differently at the border than at a US airport? Being Australian, you couldn't use it being a TPS nor could you likely be found to be in danger politically, etc*. It would have to do with that and not because you arrived by plane. If someone arrived at LAX from Venezuela and said they wanted to apply for asylum, they be treated the same way as if they'd arrived at a border port of entry.

* On the other hand, I'd grant you asylum considering all the dangerous snakes, spiders, crocodiles, etc that inhabit Oz!

Quote:
And yet someone just like me is "an illegal" and gets deported...https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ry-requirement
He should not have been treated like that, especially the cavity search, but as the saying goes 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. The Australian TV show 'Border Patrol' shows many people being refused entry and put on the next plane back to their country due to not bringing sufficient support funds or failing to follow some other entry requirement. I'm not accusing Mr. Dunn of doing anything intentionally wrong, but rules is rules.

Quote:
So it seems there is more dependence on who is doing the processing and how narky they feel like being. Given the brown, poor Venezuelans are being considered by some as "illegals" by simply crossing the wrong border, that gives lie to the capricious nature of US border policing and who is involved.
Entrance to Australia is determined by Border Patrol agents, too. How is that different? Can they not be feeling 'narky' that day? The "brown, poor Venezuelans" are NOT "being considered by some as "illegals" by simply crossing the wrong border" but because they entered illegally by not going through a port of entry. They are "illegal" until and if they apply for asylum. But I get your point about some thinking they should still be considered illegal. I think women should have autonomy over their own bodies, but that means diddley-squat if the law says otherwise.
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Old 28th September 2022, 05:49 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Why is it "let's see the evidence in court, and whatever the outcome so be it" for a politician, but you're perfectly ready to condemn the asylum seeker's presumed crimes?
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Mudpeople.
It's worth noting that DeSantis' situation is decidedly different from that of the asylum seekers.

This could go badly for him, possibly ending his political career. But he will likely land on his entitled feet.

But the asylum seekers are mostly between a rock and hard place. Their lives back home have been ruined. They haven't got much and they are carrying whatever it is on their backs.

But it seems our society is chuck full of people who want us to ignore the call to welcome the stranger and help the needy. These folks call on us focus instead on partisan political games.

I think we all know that is wrong.
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Old 28th September 2022, 05:57 PM   #764
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Just as I predicted, the posts are getting more idiotic and unfounded. This happens in other threads, but it seems worse in this one for some reason. I think it's because it is so hard for some to admit that these migrants crossed into the US illegally.

The only shifting of the goalposts has been the sudden assertion that the debate has something to do with asylum seekers in total, even those who enter through a legal port of entry.
You can play "the professor" if you want, but I ain't buying it.

You have done nothing here but excuse the criminality of your political idols and, in the most mean spirited way possible, attempt to assign criminality to people who are simply exercising the basic human right to migrate.
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Old 28th September 2022, 06:07 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You can play "the professor" if you want, but I ain't buying it.

You have done nothing here but excuse the criminality of your political idols and, in the most mean spirited way possible, attempt to assign criminality to people who are simply exercising the basic human right to migrate.

Now, help me out here. I wonder what the obvious, visual difference is between these two groups of people!?
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Old 28th September 2022, 06:13 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
<irrelevant rubbish snipped>

The only shifting of the goalposts has been the sudden assertion that the debate has something to do with asylum seekers in total, even those who enter through a legal port of entry.
The title of this thread is "DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt", therefore, this discussion is about the political stunt DeSantis pulled, in which involved lying to asylum seekers, loading them onto an aircraft and shipping them to Massachussetts.
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Old 28th September 2022, 06:16 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The title of this thread is "DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt", therefore, this discussion is about the political stunt DeSantis pulled, in which involved lying to asylum seekers, loading them onto an aircraft and shipping them to Massachussetts.

You have taken my comment out of context. You seem to have not been following the thread for days, nor are you aware of what the most recent debate has been about. Not much I can add to that, really. I suggest taking some time to catch up.

Because, otherwise, your commentary seems entirely detached from the current discussion/debate. And it is certainly misrepresenting such. The recent debate has consistently been about the illegality of the border crossing by these migrants.
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Old 28th September 2022, 06:31 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You can play "the professor" if you want, but I ain't buying it.

You have done nothing here but excuse the criminality of your political idols and, in the most mean spirited way possible, attempt to assign criminality to people who are simply exercising the basic human right to migrate.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now, help me out here. I wonder what the obvious, visual difference is between these two groups of people!?
One group (the political idols) play endless political games.

The other group (the asylum seekers) struggles to to maintain their lives and families.

. . .oh. . .one group in primarily fat, rich white Republicans and the other group is Latinos whose primary goal is to make sure their kids don't starve before they get to the U.S. border.

. . .is that what you were asking?

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Old 28th September 2022, 06:41 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
One group (the political idols) play endless political games.

The other group (the asylum seekers) struggles to to maintain their lives and families.

. . .oh. . .one group in primarily fat, rich white Republicans and the other group is Latinos whose primary goal is to make sure their kids don't starve before they get to the U.S. border.

. . .is that what you were asking?
Yes, and well answered... with truth!!

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You have taken my comment out of context. You seem to have not been following the thread for days, nor are you aware of what the most recent debate has been about. Not much I can add to that, really. I suggest taking some time to catch up.

Because, otherwise, your commentary seems entirely detached from the current discussion/debate. And it is certainly misrepresenting such. The recent debate has consistently been about the illegality of the border crossing by these migrants.

I don't care what the debate "evolved to", and in any case, it evolved to what it appears to be now because you dragged it in that direction to suit your own narrative.
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Old 28th September 2022, 06:41 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You have taken my comment out of context. You seem to have not been following the thread for days, nor are you aware of what the most recent debate has been about. Not much I can add to that, really. I suggest taking some time to catch up.

Because, otherwise, your commentary seems entirely detached from the current discussion/debate. And it is certainly misrepresenting such. The recent debate has consistently been about the illegality of the border crossing by these migrants.
Translation: "The Professor" is cornered and thinks he might get out of the jam by pretending he can grade your essay.
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Old 28th September 2022, 07:25 PM   #771
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How is an asylum seeker treated differently at the border than at a US airport? Being Australian, you couldn't use it being a TPS nor could you likely be found to be in danger politically, etc*. It would have to do with that and not because you arrived by plane. If someone arrived at LAX from Venezuela and said they wanted to apply for asylum, they be treated the same way as if they'd arrived at a border port of entry.
Nope, definitely not the case. They would not be put in cages and potentially have their children separated from them. Nor would they be sent back to Mexico/Caracas on the next flight "until their application is due to be heard". Granted, they would not be simply waved through either. But it would not be the same treatment that is meted out to wetbacks.

Quote:
He should not have been treated like that, especially the cavity search, but as the saying goes 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. The Australian TV show 'Border Patrol' shows many people being refused entry and put on the next plane back to their country due to not bringing sufficient support funds or failing to follow some other entry requirement. I'm not accusing Mr. Dunn of doing anything intentionally wrong, but rules is rules.
Sure, but that was an entirely arbitrary and frankly capricious decision. Thousands of tourists, Australian and otherwise, have successfully transited the USA to a third country via airports. I have done so myself - UK to Canada via JFK. So how did they go through and this case did not? because some US border person decided it at that time. They seemed to pick one person who was technically in breach, and...made an example of them?? And the same goes for people arriving at the southern border. They are at the mercy of how some border security person feels when they got out of bed this morning.

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Entrance to Australia is determined by Border Patrol agents, too. How is that different? Can they not be feeling 'narky' that day?
Correct, as do most countries. And actually, no, they should not be capricious. They need to follow our laws strictly. Just that our laws have been, until recently, set by a bunch would-be fascists who were perhaps models for DeSantis. Meet Peter Dutton, former Minister for Home Affairs and (former) head honcho of Border Force.

Quote:
The "brown, poor Venezuelans" are NOT "being considered by some as "illegals" by simply crossing the wrong border" but because they entered illegally by not going through a port of entry. They are "illegal" until and if they apply for asylum. But I get your point about some thinking they should still be considered illegal. I think women should have autonomy over their own bodies, but that means diddley-squat if the law says otherwise.
All agreed. We have our own equivalent to these people - Border Force, and our government's actions have been (until recently when we changed them) even more heinous than the US. Makes DeSantis look tame. PLEASE don't get like this.
Quote:
What is offshore processing?

Since 13 August 2012, Australia has resumed sending people who came by boat to Australia seeking asylum [equivalent to southern border asylum seekers] to Nauru and Manus Island in Papua New Guinea under a policy of offshore processing. Since 19 July 2013, the Australian Government’s policy is that no one in this group will ever be resettled in Australia, even if they are recognised as refugees.
https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/op...on-statistics/

I certainly don't think the US is a solo or even the worst exponent of anti-immigrant exploitation.
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Old 28th September 2022, 09:34 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nope, definitely not the case. They would not be put in cages and potentially have their children separated from them. Nor would they be sent back to Mexico/Caracas on the next flight "until their application is due to be heard". Granted, they would not be simply waved through either. But it would not be the same treatment that is meted out to wetbacks.
You're not reading carefully.

A person arriving via a US airport had to have a passport/visa to get on the plane at its point of origin which is the crucial difference.

Notice I said, "If someone arrived at LAX from Venezuela and said they wanted to apply for asylum, they be treated the same way as if they'd arrived at a border port of entry." That means they had a passport/visa and arrived legally... meaning they are not a 'wetback'.


Quote:
Sure, but that was an entirely arbitrary and frankly capricious decision. Thousands of tourists, Australian and otherwise, have successfully transited the USA to a third country via airports. I have done so myself - UK to Canada via JFK. So how did they go through and this case did not? because some US border person decided it at that time. They seemed to pick one person who was technically in breach, and...made an example of them?? And the same goes for people arriving at the southern border. They are at the mercy of how some border security person feels when they got out of bed this morning.
How was that an "entirely arbitrary and frankly capricious decision"? Mr. Dunn failed to follow the requirements per US law. How did you and they go through, and he did not? I'd say because you and they followed the legal requirements. Did you have a return flight booked? If so, that met the requirement. There is no indication that Dunn had a return flight booked. Sorry, but you are really stretching to find an excuse here by making assumptions not based evidence.

Take a look at this similar story of an Aussie being denied entry. It:https://www.traveller.com.au/warning...ter%20the%20US


Quote:
Correct, as do most countries. And actually, no, they should not be capricious. They need to follow our laws strictly. Just that our laws have been, until recently, set by a bunch would-be fascists who were perhaps models for DeSantis. Meet Peter Dutton, former Minister for Home Affairs and (former) head honcho of Border Force.

All agreed. We have our own equivalent to these people - Border Force, and our government's actions have been (until recently when we changed them) even more heinous than the US. Makes DeSantis look tame. PLEASE don't get like this.https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/op...on-statistics/

I certainly don't think the US is a solo or even the worst exponent of anti-immigrant exploitation.
Again, you're assuming that border agents are being "capricious" which is an assumption not based on evidence but on your own personal bias.
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Old 28th September 2022, 10:59 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're not reading carefully.
And you are not understanding.

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A person arriving via a US airport had to have a passport/visa to get on the plane at its point of origin which is the crucial difference.
No, they won't always. Some points of departure involve zero or very lax passport control. In some cases, they simply bribe their way on. Some intended asylum seekers will simply hide or even flush their "boarding passports" in flight - false documents, and present to passport control on arrival with no documentation. See also "refugee travel documents" for people with no passports.

Quote:
Notice I said, "If someone arrived at LAX from Venezuela and said they wanted to apply for asylum, they be treated the same way as if they'd arrived at a border port of entry." That means they had a passport/visa and arrived legally... meaning they are not a 'wetback'.
Nope. See above.

Quote:
How was that an "entirely arbitrary and frankly capricious decision"? Mr. Dunn failed to follow the requirements per US law. How did you and they go through, and he did not? I'd say because you and they followed the legal requirements. Did you have a return flight booked? If so, that met the requirement. There is no indication that Dunn had a return flight booked. Sorry, but you are really stretching to find an excuse here by making assumptions not based evidence.
As I said, this happens many times daily with zero problem. Has done for years. I traveled from UK to Toronto via JFK, with no return flight booked. It was for work also. Not a problem.

Quote:
Take a look at this similar story of an Aussie being denied entry. It:https://www.traveller.com.au/warning...ter%20the%20US
Yup. One of hundreds of instances of this being fine previously. Just this once some border security official decided to pull it up.

Quote:
Again, you're assuming that border agents are being "capricious" which is an assumption not based on evidence but on your own personal bias.
Nope. In almost every case I have dealt with US border security, they have been polite, efficient and friendly. Helpful, even. No problems for me at all. But then, as I said, I'm a white male Caucasian. How could I possibly be a socialist librul tree-hugging gun-grabbing visa over-stayer!
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Old 29th September 2022, 06:27 AM   #774
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Hey, here's some more news:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

(NSFW-ish)
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Old 29th September 2022, 11:59 AM   #775
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Hey, here's some more news:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

(NSFW-ish)
OK, that was hilarious - made my morning.

It was also full of well-researched truth. I might have to subscribe to this channel.
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Old 29th September 2022, 12:07 PM   #776
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK, that was hilarious - made my morning.

It was also full of well-researched truth. I might have to subscribe to this channel.
Cody’s Showdy is surprisingly well balanced without “both sides”-ing.
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Old 29th September 2022, 01:19 PM   #777
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And you are not understanding.

Quote:
Quote:
A person arriving via a US airport had to have a passport/visa to get on the plane at its point of origin which is the crucial difference.
No, they won't always. Some points of departure involve zero or very lax passport control. In some cases, they simply bribe their way on. Some intended asylum seekers will simply hide or even flush their "boarding passports" in flight - false documents, and present to passport control on arrival with no documentation.
I'm understanding just fine.
That's quite a claim you made. Do you have any supporting evidence for it? What airports have zero passport control? Do you have examples of people just bribing their way onto an international flight? Or flushing their boarding documents during flight?

Quote:
See also "refugee travel documents" for people with no passports.
If you read your own link, the person does have a passport of sorts: it's an official document that acts in place of a passport that allows for international travel that is obtained from the country of residence when the refugee cannot get a passport from his own country. As the traveler has official documentation that allows him to travel internationally that is accepted as such by the US, then my point still stands: they had proper documentation.


Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Quote:
Quote:
Notice I said, "If someone arrived at LAX from Venezuela and said they wanted to apply for asylum, they be treated the same way as if they'd arrived at a border port of entry." That means they had a passport/visa and arrived legally... meaning they are not a 'wetback'.
Nope. See above.
Yep. See above.

Quote:
As I said, this happens many times daily with zero problem. Has done for years. I traveled from UK to Toronto via JFK, with no return flight booked. It was for work also. Not a problem.
How do you know this? You're making claims for which I've seen no evidence and you've presented nothing. How do you know how many or how often people are turned back for this or another reason?


Quote:
Yup. One of hundreds of instances of this being fine previously. Just this once some border security official decided to pull it up.
"Hundreds of instances"? Again, you're making claims with no evidence. Additionally, my article clearly states, "The house-sitter said there are multiple online discussion threads devoted to the topic, and exercising discretion about intentions to house-sit at border controls is an unspoken rule within the community.

"People who have been doing it for a long time have got their procedures for going through immigration down pat. It's not necessarily lying about why they're there, but it's not fully disclosing," the person said.

Savvy housesitters have honed ways to pass through immigration points without raising alarm
."


Quote:
Nope. In almost every case I have dealt with US border security, they have been polite, efficient and friendly. Helpful, even. No problems for me at all. But then, as I said, I'm a white male Caucasian. How could I possibly be a socialist librul tree-hugging gun-grabbing visa over-stayer!
Look, you are speaking of your own experience. You don't know how often others are turned away for not meeting US requirements. The fact is Dunn failed to do so. So did Gourley. She violated ESTA rules. As the article states, "All travellers are responsible for ensuring they meet the entry and residency requirements of countries they visit". The border agents weren't "capricious" or "arbitrary". They were, in fact, following the law.
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Old 29th September 2022, 01:50 PM   #778
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The stunt did NOT backfire unless Fox News viewers somehow stopped agreeing it was a good thing.
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Old 29th September 2022, 01:57 PM   #779
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After Hurricane Ian's destruction, maybe DeSantis can offer some real FL asylum seekers free tickets out of the state. He might get a few takers.
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Old 29th September 2022, 02:00 PM   #780
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The stunt did NOT backfire unless Fox News viewers somehow stopped agreeing it was a good thing.
If the purpose was to rile up the base then it worked. If it was to convince any swing voters to vote Republican... I think it majorly backfired.
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Old 29th September 2022, 05:24 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The stunt did NOT backfire unless Fox News viewers somehow stopped agreeing it was a good thing.
For very limited definitions of "backfire"

The facts are that DeSantis and his scumbag minions fully expected the residents of Martha's Vinyard to react exactly how they themselves would react; the way the DO react when confronted with brown-skinned immigrants and asylum-seekers (i.e. "OMG!!!!! What are all those brown people doing here? We don't want them here. There's no place for them here. Put them on the first plane home").

Instead, the regular white-skinned residents, many of them elderly and retired, pulled out all the stops to make them welcome. They fed them, and gave them clothes and mobile phones, they brought local school kids to help translate for them, gave them a place to stay. Residents from across the island raised more than $175,000, some of the donations were multiple thousands of dollars but most of them in the $50 to $100 range. The Vinyarders acted in a kind, generous, humanitarian way, the exact opposite of what DeSantis and his cronies expected.

That is a backfire any way you slice it, and it could get worse for DeSantis, a lot worse.

Now of course, it will never influence the hard core GOP supporters, because for them, triggering the libz and inflicting cruelty on brown skinned people is the whole point. But it could well influence independents, and in a close election, it is the independents who have the greatest impact on the outcome.
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Old 29th September 2022, 06:28 PM   #782
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If I'm understanding some of the arguments put forward in this thread, if someone makes an illegal crossing, even if it becomes legal by seeking asylum, then that person is an 'illegal'?

Which means that if I, a natural born American citizen, made an illegal crossing, then I'm also an 'illegal'? Huh?
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Old 29th September 2022, 07:25 PM   #783
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
If I'm understanding some of the arguments put forward in this thread, if someone makes an illegal crossing, even if it becomes legal by seeking asylum, then that person is an 'illegal'?

Which means that if I, a natural born American citizen, made an illegal crossing, then I'm also an 'illegal'? Huh?
Yup. Go figure!
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Old 29th September 2022, 08:29 PM   #784
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
If I'm understanding some of the arguments put forward in this thread, if someone makes an illegal crossing, even if it becomes legal by seeking asylum, then that person is an 'illegal'?

Which means that if I, a natural born American citizen, made an illegal crossing, then I'm also an 'illegal'? Huh?

Read more. And don't rely on the opinions of those who don't.

The argument is that the special exception should not excuse them from facing deportation, and not absolve them of responsibility for such crime. Without the exception, and treated like others who cross illegally, they would face that judgement, most likely. Even under pandemic restrictions.
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Old 29th September 2022, 08:42 PM   #785
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The stunt did NOT backfire unless Fox News viewers somehow stopped agreeing it was a good thing.

Exactly. DeSantis wants the base of voters that support Trump. He is doing well with that, imo. Imagine all of the liberal tears if he wins in 2024. Imagine them shouting about how "wrong" he was with this stunt.

It is delicious.
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Old 29th September 2022, 10:45 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Exactly. DeSantis wants the base of voters that support Trump. He is doing well with that, imo. Imagine all of the liberal tears if he wins in 2024. Imagine them shouting about how "wrong" he was with this stunt.

It is delicious.
So DeSantis wants all the idiots who believe the election was stolen and are too stupid to see Trump and DeSantis for what they are. He can have them.
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Old 29th September 2022, 11:06 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
So DeSantis wants all the idiots who believe the election was stolen and are too stupid to see Trump and DeSantis for what they are. He can have them.
Unfortunately that would appear to be 40% of the US electorate

Unless the Democratic Party candidate can get those other 60% out in force those 40% plus any people who simply vote GOP regardless plus election tampering equals victory.
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Old 29th September 2022, 11:10 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
So DeSantis wants all the idiots who believe the election was stolen and are too stupid to see Trump and DeSantis for what they are. He can have them.

Sounds like the perfect mindset for a 2016 rally. I love it.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:30 AM   #789
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Exactly. DeSantis wants the base of voters that support Trump. He is doing well with that, imo. Imagine all of the liberal tears if he wins in 2024. Imagine them shouting about how "wrong" he was with this stunt.

It is delicious.
I mean, nobody can stop you from holding this opinion, but it kind of pulls the rug on any credibility when you pretend to be moralizing on a principle.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:38 AM   #790
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I mean, nobody can stop you from holding this opinion, but it kind of pulls the rug on any credibility when you pretend to be moralizing on a principle.

I wouldn't expect any liberal to think differently. There is a box. Step outside of it. And think.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:31 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I wouldn't expect any liberal to think differently. There is a box. Step outside of it. And think.
You should take your own advice on this (but substitute box with your basement)
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:36 AM   #792
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I wouldn't expect any liberal to think differently. There is a box. Step outside of it. And think.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You should take your own advice on this (but substitute box with your basement)

Sick burn, bro. This sort of brilliant commentary is what keeps me coming back to the ISF. Top notch.
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Old 30th September 2022, 02:56 AM   #793
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I've been reminding everyone I know that enjoys being all up Trump's ass lately, that early in his term he was offered a deal to get his wall money, in exchange for dealing with DACA, 700,000 kids that were already here.
But the "deal maker" wouldn't do it, and as such, any problems that exist today could have been stopped there and then, and Trump could have claimed a campaign promise kept, even if Mexico didn't pay for it. Surprisingly, most seem to have never heard about it, or flat out call it a lie, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...l-daca/551288/
And the worst is, taking that deal would have significantly hurt the Democratic party, as it would have alienated a good chunk of their voters for no gains elsewhere.
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Old 30th September 2022, 05:02 AM   #794
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Meanwhile, back in the real world, all of a sudden DeSantis is praising Joe Biden.
Quote:
Proving that even the most partisan politics fall by the wayside when a hurricane is approaching, Gov. Ron DeSantis had nothing but good things to say about President Joe Biden during a Tuesday night interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity....DeSantis had indicated a willingness to talk to Biden, dropping the antagonistic rhetoric he’d used toward the President since shortly after the two worked together in the aftermath of the historic building collapse in Surfside. "I’m happy to brief the President if he’s interested in hearing what we’re doing in Florida,” DeSantis said at a press conference Tuesday. Florida Politics dot com
Remember back in the early days of the pandemic, when governors had to 'thank' trump and praise him publicly or they didn't get relief aid from the federal government. Can you spell i-n-t-e-g-r-i-t-y?
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Old 30th September 2022, 05:06 AM   #795
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Exactly. DeSantis wants the base of voters that support Trump. He is doing well with that, imo. Imagine all of the liberal tears if he wins in 2024. Imagine them shouting about how "wrong" he was with this stunt.

It is delicious.
And he would have gotten the ball rolling by abusing the defenseless.

Those of us with our heads and hearts in the right place know it's not delicious. . . .it's despicable.

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Old 30th September 2022, 05:11 AM   #796
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I wouldn't expect any liberal to think differently. . ..
One has to ask if there is any subject about which you do not possess some loathsome prejudice?

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Old 30th September 2022, 06:48 AM   #797
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Read more. And don't rely on the opinions of those who don't.

The argument is that the special exception should not excuse them from facing deportation, and not absolve them of responsibility for such crime. Without the exception, and treated like others who cross illegally, they would face that judgement, most likely. Even under pandemic restrictions.
This is a wish for who you think should be considered 'illegals', and not a rational defense of describing people here legally as 'illegals'.
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Old 30th September 2022, 07:41 AM   #798
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I wouldn't expect any liberal to think differently. There is a box. Step outside of it. And think.
If I'm stepping to a place where I give up any integrity to gleefully revel in spite, no thanks. You don't get to be the "I don't give a crap" guy and also the moral guardian.
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Old 30th September 2022, 09:52 AM   #799
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
You don't get to be the "I don't give a crap" guy and also the moral guardian.

Actually, I kind of do get to be that. Because, like most, I see my personal morality as superior to that of others.
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Old 30th September 2022, 09:59 AM   #800
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
This is a wish for who you think should be considered 'illegals', and not a rational defense of describing people here legally as 'illegals'.

I can call them whatever I like. I am allowed to have an opinion, you know. I am not claiming these migrants are "illegals" in the eyes of the law. Just that they should be.
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