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Tags DeSantis , electioneering , florida , immigration

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Old 30th September 2022, 10:18 AM   #801
arayder
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
. . .I see my personal morality as superior to that of others.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I can call them whatever I like. I am allowed to have an opinion, you know. I am not claiming these migrants are "illegals" in the eyes of the law. Just that they should be.
Warp, let me point out once again that your callous abuse of those less fortunate than yourself (the so called "illegals" in particular) hardly qualifies you as superior.
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Old 30th September 2022, 10:21 AM   #802
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They SHOULD be ill eagles? Hey, Warp12, you're flubbing Nihilism 101. Nothing should or ought to be! Action is the only reality! Ay ya, ay ya, ay ya, alala!


Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law! Jeeze, next you'll be turning in your brown shirt and billy club.

Hang onto your big jug of castor oil, though. Stuff's good fer wot ails ya.
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Old 30th September 2022, 10:29 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Actually, I kind of do get to be that. Because, like most, I see my personal morality as superior to that of others.
Well now!

How very enlightening.

In any event, I do hope that if, and when, your personal morality does actually become superior to the personal morality that is held by most people, then you will let the Forum know when this most remarkable moment in history does occur.
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Old 30th September 2022, 10:46 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Actually, I kind of do get to be that. Because, like most, I see my personal morality as superior to that of others.
it's not.
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Old 30th September 2022, 11:37 AM   #805
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Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.
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Old 30th September 2022, 11:45 AM   #806
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

Murderers and thieves are fellow human beings, too. How about that notion?

In short, those who cross illegally are no different than the above. Criminals who should be treated as such. Either embrace lawless behavior, or don't. Don't sit on a liberal fencepost; we all know where that post is stuck.
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Old 30th September 2022, 11:54 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Murderers and thieves are fellow human beings, too. How about that notion?

In short, those who cross illegally are no different than the above. Criminals who should be treated as such. Either embrace lawless behavior, or don't. Don't sit on a liberal fencepost; we all know where that post is stuck.
Warp, your post is one of the most insane perversions of reality I have seen in a long time. If this is really the way your head is working, I feel sorry for you.

On one hand you give lip service to the notion of liberty and freedom by admitting the everyone has God Given rights. Then you tell us that somebody seeking asylum or trying to sneak into the U.S. to get work has no right to be treated any better that a murderer.

Your argument is a sham!

Last edited by arayder; 30th September 2022 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:02 PM   #808
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Criminals who should be treated as such. Either embrace lawless behavior, or don't. Don't sit on a liberal fencepost; we all know where that post is stuck.
Wait, you think DeSantis should be treated like a criminal now? Because previously you were embracing his lawless behavior. Is this a sign that your morality is improving?




Nah, who am I kidding. You still want to embrace lawless behavior committed by rich white guys while condemning far less serious misdemeanor offences that may have been committed by the brown people.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:06 PM   #809
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Murderers and thieves are fellow human beings, too. How about that notion?

In short, those who cross illegally are no different than the above. Criminals who should be treated as such. Either embrace lawless behavior, or don't. Don't sit on a liberal fencepost; we all know where that post is stuck.

We should treat all criminals humanely. That’s a basic human right enshrined in our laws. But that’s a subject for another thread.

Because the people in question in this thread? They are not here illegally; they’ve committed no crime. There’s no two ways about it - no “should be.” The law is clear that they are legally allowed to be here. As such, “the way we treat criminals” is moot.

These people (all people) deserve dignity and respect. Anyone who can’t see that has no claim to moral superiority.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:10 PM   #810
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Because the people in question in this thread? They are not here illegally; they’ve committed no crime.

Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:33 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.
You also say they should be sent back to their home countries with any regard for due process or their safety and well being.

When we get down to it your argument isn't really about the law. It's about your desire to treat others as inhumanly as you see fit.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:40 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.
No, the recent kerfluffle about whether or not crossing the border was illegal before applying for asylum made the misdemeanor moot in no way established that the people DeSantis used for his stunt had ever illegally crossed the border. Unless you have some more information, we don't know if they crossed at a checkpoint and applied for asylum there or not.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:41 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You also say they should be sent back to their home countries with any regard for due process or their safety and well being.

Yes, that is how I think those who cross illegally should be treated. Across the board. No special exceptions, as these migrants have enjoyed.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:41 PM   #814
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You also say they should be sent back to their home countries with any regard for due process or their safety and well being.

When we get down to it your argument isn't really about the law. It's about your desire to treat others as inhumanly as you see fit.
Warp12 has, without any foundation or evidence, claimed these asylum-seekers to be disease-ridden, infected and criminals. Why would you expect anything else?
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:46 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
No, the recent kerfluffle about whether or not crossing the border was illegal before applying for asylum made the misdemeanor moot in no way established that the people DeSantis used for his stunt had ever illegally crossed the border. Unless you have some more information, we don't know if they crossed at a checkpoint and applied for asylum there or not.

Obviously you have not been following the thread. No surprise around here.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:48 PM   #816
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Quote:
arayder You also say they should be sent back to their home countries with any regard for due process or their safety and well being.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yes, that is how I think those who cross illegally should be treated. Across the board. No special exceptions, as these migrants have enjoyed.
That sort of treatment of accused people is not lawful in the U.S.

You are exactly why this country has courts of law. You are the reason we so closely guard the individual's right to due process. You are the reason we embrace justice, not tyranny.

You are not law and order. You are the mob!

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Old 30th September 2022, 12:49 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Obviously you have not been following the thread. No surprise around here.
And you are not authorized to grade papers, Professor!
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:52 PM   #818
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.

But the law carved out exceptions for people from certain countries and gives them the legal right to be here while that process is ongoing. Therefore, they are not here illegally.

As for the border crossing itself, the NYT reports that these people turned themselves in to immigration officials with the intent to seek asylum. It’s not clear exactly how they entered the country, but if they did it at an established land crossing, it wouldn’t be an illegal entry. That’s what most asylum seekers do. Even if they crossed “illegally,” the fact that they turned themselves in and asked for asylum is mitigating.

People from Mexico are allowed to seek asylum, they just currently have to do it from Mexico because they will be sent back -that doesn’t make their attempted crossing illegal. It didn’t used to be like that -they would not be turned back or prosecuted for improper entry if they were seeking asylum. It is not a crime to enter the country to seek asylum.

Bottom line, like it or not, they have a legal right to be here and plead their case. While they are here, it is our duty (morally and legally) to treat them with dignity and respect.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:53 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
But the law carved out exceptions for people from certain countries and gives them the legal right to be here while that process is ongoing. Therefore, they are not here illegally.

As for the border crossing itself, the NYT reports that these people turned themselves in to immigration officials with the intent to seek asylum. It’s not clear exactly how they entered the country, but if they did it at an established land crossing, it wouldn’t be an illegal entry. That’s what most asylum seekers do. Even if they crossed “illegally,” the fact that they turned themselves in and asked for asylum is mitigating.

People from Mexico are allowed to seek asylum, they just currently have to do it from Mexico because they will be sent back -that doesn’t make their attempted crossing illegal. It didn’t used to be like that -they would not be turned back or prosecuted for improper entry if they were seeking asylum. It is not a crime to enter the country to seek asylum.

Bottom line, like it or not, they have a legal right to be here and plead their case. While they are here, it is our duty (morally and legally) to treat them with dignity and respect.
Well said!
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:55 PM   #820
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.
They are legally in the country because they are recognized by the US government, as asylum-seekers. That is a fact of law - US immigration law actually uses the term "improper entry", and yes, while they may have entered improperly, that fact is moot because the moment they applied for asylum, they are deemed by that very same US goverment to no longer be in the country illegally, therefore they are not illegal immigrants.

I know that you object to these facts and laws because it does not comport with your morally depraved "screw all the brown people from ****-hole countries" narrative, but they nonetheless remain facts and laws even if you don't like them.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:01 PM   #821
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Obviously you have not been following the thread. No surprise around here.
Obviously you have misunderstood what was being discussed, or are pretending to have misunderstood what was discussed in order to claim that the asylum seekers in question are "illegals." If you wish to disagree, please present your evidence that these specific 48 people had not crossed at a legal point of entry.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:01 PM   #822
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
But the law carved out exceptions for people from certain countries and gives them the legal right to be here while that process is ongoing. Therefore, they are not here illegally.

As for the border crossing itself, the NYT reports that these people turned themselves in to immigration officials with the intent to seek asylum. It’s not clear exactly how they entered the country, but if they did it at an established land crossing, it wouldn’t be an illegal entry. That’s what most asylum seekers do. Even if they crossed “illegally,” the fact that they turned themselves in and asked for asylum is mitigating.

People from Mexico are allowed to seek asylum, they just currently have to do it from Mexico because they will be sent back -that doesn’t make their attempted crossing illegal. It didn’t used to be like that -they would not be turned back or prosecuted for improper entry if they were seeking asylum. It is not a crime to enter the country to seek asylum.

Bottom line, like it or not, they have a legal right to be here and plead their case. While they are here, it is our duty (morally and legally) to treat them with dignity and respect.

I don't like it. They should cross at a legal port of entry. The US Government apparently feels the same, if you have been following the thread. It has also been pointed out that these migrants did not cross legally. Follow the thread more closely, if possible.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:02 PM   #823
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Obviously you have misunderstood what was being discussed, or are pretending to have misunderstood what was discussed in order to claim that the asylum seekers in question are "illegals." If you wish to disagree, please present your evidence that these specific 48 people had not crossed at a legal point of entry.

Welcome to a week ago. It has already been pointed out by stacyhs that they crossed illegally. I mean, like to the Nth degree.

What is this, Groundhog Day??
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:13 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
. . . Follow the thread more closely, if possible.
You denial game's getting old, Professor.

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Old 30th September 2022, 01:18 PM   #825
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
That sort of treatment of accused people is not lawful in the U.S.
As far as I can tell they aren't/weren't even accused.

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
But the law carved out exceptions for people from certain countries and gives them the legal right to be here while that process is ongoing. Therefore, they are not here illegally.
Check back a few pages for the prosecution and migration statistics I cited and the asylum entry process that newyorkguy cited. The numbers aren't compatible with most migrants even being accused of entering illegally and that includes those entering at places like Yuma Gap. Unless there is something wrong with our citations then it appears Immigration authorities simply didn't get Warp12's memo on who is illegal.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:22 PM   #826
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Welcome to a week ago. It has already been pointed out by stacyhs that they crossed illegally. I mean, like to the Nth degree.

What is this, Groundhog Day??
As I pointed out, you misunderstood the discussion. Your inability to provide evidence of where the 48 people in question crossed the border demonstrates that.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:24 PM   #827
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It's almost like there is some other reason our conservative interlocutor is insisting on his "moral superiority" and the "immediate removal of non-Caucasian 'illegals'". A reason more to do with incitement in this forum and less to do with personal politics...
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:24 PM   #828
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
As far as I can tell they aren't/weren't even accused.
Good point. In my mind I was thinking of Warp's accusation.

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Check back a few pages for the prosecution and migration statistics I cited and the asylum entry process that newyorkguy cited. The numbers aren't compatible with most migrants even being accused of entering illegally and that includes those entering at places like Yuma Gap. Unless there is something wrong with our citations then it appears Immigration authorities simply didn't get Warp12's memo on who is illegal.
I read all that. Good stuff.

Warp sometimes argues that these folks are "illegal". Then he denies that claim and says they "should be illegal."

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Old 30th September 2022, 01:24 PM   #829
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
As I pointed out, you misunderstood the discussion. Your inability to provide evidence of where the 48 people in question crossed the border demonstrates that.

Shiva H. Vishnu. We have played this over and over. And it is clear that where they entered does not make a rat's ass of difference under the law, nor in the mind of liberals. And that is my complaint.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:34 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
As far as I can tell they aren't/weren't even accused.
You'd be right.

They were never charged or even accused of a crime, and they immediately applied for asylum, which means they are in the US legally. End of story!
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:36 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:42 PM   #832
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Shiva H. Vishnu. We have played this over and over. And it is clear that where they entered does not make a rat's ass of difference under the law...
And that is what really chaps your arse, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
...nor in the mind of liberals.
Nor in the minds of those people who believe that laws matter, and who believe and accept that people have human rights, and the right to be treated fairly and equitably, with dignity and without prejudice or discrimination, regardless of their race, skin-colour or ethnicity.

You are not one of those people!
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:42 PM   #833
arayder
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Shiva H. Vishnu. We have played this over and over. And it is clear that where they entered does not make a rat's ass of difference under the law, nor in the mind of liberals. And that is my complaint.
LOL. . .Son, you have a boat load of complaints.

And they all come from that highly biased, judgmental place.

The law is not what you make it and other people don't exist so you can have someone to hate and abuse.

Don't try to deny it. You are here in the hopes you can abuse some liberals. Every few posts the beast gets loose and you tell the people here that they are stupid, haven't read the thread. . .or are just plain lowly liberals.

That thang is a' eatin' ya' up, son.
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:42 PM   #834
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It's almost like there is some other reason our conservative interlocutor is insisting on his "moral superiority" and the "immediate removal of non-Caucasian 'illegals'". A reason more to do with incitement in this forum and less to do with personal politics...
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:44 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.



It ceased to be part of the world-view of GOP supporters a long, long time ago!
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Old 30th September 2022, 01:47 PM   #836
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.
There's the reason. They are not considered fellow human beings. They are untermensch, three-fifths, sub-human, brown-skinned apes, with all sorts of diseases and depravity. Not worthy to be subject to the same laws and privileges as us white-skinned civilised people. They worship strange gods, and can be exploited without any qualms.

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Old 30th September 2022, 02:26 PM   #837
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I hope this settles the debate once and for all. From the American Immigration Council:

Quote:
Generally, a person who entered the United States without inspection is not eligible to apply for permanent residence. Six federal appellate circuits previously ruled on this issue. Three federal appellate circuits (the Sixth, Eighth, and Ninth Circuits) ruled that a person with valid TPS status could adjust status to lawful permanent residence if otherwise eligible through a family-based or employment-based petition, even if he or she entered the United States without inspection. Three other federal appellate courts (the Third, Fifth, and Eleventh Circuits) ruled that a TPS recipient who entered without inspection is not eligible to adjust to permanent residence.

In June 2021, the Supreme Court subsequently ruled that a TPS recipient who entered the United States without inspection is not eligible to adjust to permanent residence from within the United States, overturning the prior decisions by the Sixth, Eighth, and Ninth Circuits. In order to gain permanent resident status, a TPS recipient who initially entered the United States without inspection must depart the country to have a visa processed at a consular post. For many TPS holders, a departure to have a visa interview would trigger bars to re-entry for up to 10 years.

Alternatively, some TPS recipients may be eligible to adjust status if they were granted advance permission from USCIS (referred to as advance parole), traveled abroad, and were paroled back into the United States.

What happens to a TPS beneficiary when a TPS designation ends?
TPS beneficiaries return to the immigration status that they held prior to receiving TPS, unless that status has expired or the person has successfully acquired a new immigration status. TPS beneficiaries who entered the United States without inspection and who are not eligible for other immigration benefits, for example, would return to being undocumented at the end of a TPS designation and become subject to removal.
This clearly states that those who entered, even with TPS, without going through inspection (border checkpoint) return to being "undocumented" and "subject to removal".

In case anyone wants to argue that "undocumented" is not the same as "illegal":

Quote:
Legal immigrants are foreign-born people legally admitted to the U.S. Undocumented immigrants, also called illegal aliens, are foreign-born people who do not possess a valid visa or other immigration documentation, because they entered the U.S. without inspection, stayed longer than their temporary visa permitted, or otherwise violated the terms under which they were admitted.
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Old 30th September 2022, 02:33 PM   #838
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This all reads as testament of why it is awesome to be white. But yet, it should be frowned upon.

Not surprising.
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Old 30th September 2022, 03:45 PM   #839
arayder
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This all reads as testament of why it is awesome to be white. But yet, it should be frowned upon.

Not surprising.
Assuming again, are you, Professor?
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Old 30th September 2022, 03:56 PM   #840
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.
Your opinion is not the basis for US Federal law. It does not supersede the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 or The Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962. If you believe those acts should be repealed or amended I suggest writing your Congressman and Senator. It does not matter if they crossed the border illegally, once they were granted asylum they were here legally. They were here legally when DeSantis had them lured to Florida, and then to Mass through means of false promises. And that, just might be, an actual federal crime.
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