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Old 30th August 2022, 01:51 PM   #1
Vixen
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Gorbachov Dead - The Last Leader of the USSR

Quote:
THE last leader of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev, has died at the age of 92. The Russian state news agencies Interfax, Tass and RIA Novosti reported on the matter.

- Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev died this evening after a serious and long illness, the Moscow hospital that treated the ex-Soviet leader announced according to Tassa.
IS

The end of an era.
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Old 30th August 2022, 02:18 PM   #2
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Who turns up to the funeral will be very interesting.

Of the old men he replaced, Gorbachev is a bit of an outlier, as, of his predecessors, no-one after Malenkov lived beyond 80: Chernenko 73, Andropov 69, Brezhnev 75, Kruschev 77.
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Old 30th August 2022, 03:07 PM   #3
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God, I remember when it seemslike we had a new Russian Leader about every week, since they died off of old age so quickly.
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Old 30th August 2022, 03:30 PM   #4
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wAs hE VAcciNAtEd?
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Слава Україні! **** Putin!
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Old 30th August 2022, 07:13 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
wAs hE VAcciNAtEd?
[s]Pfizer[/s] VVP Po210... no booster required.

j/k.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:14 AM   #6
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Ms Karina will be in tears!
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:16 AM   #7
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A great, great man. The world is better for his existence.
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:50 AM   #8
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I just wonder what the alternative was. The USSR was already falling apart. Maybe civil war?
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Old 31st August 2022, 01:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I just wonder what the alternative was. The USSR was already falling apart. Maybe civil war?
Difficult to say, but grasping the nettle seems to have made things less worse.

Of course whether current inhabitants of Ukraine, Belarus, Chechnya, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and some other former Soviet republics still feel that way is a good question.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
A great, great man. The world is better for his existence.
We were having a discussion earlier and I can't think of a greater leader Russia ever had.

Catherine and Peter were Great, but not Gorby kind of great.
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Old 31st August 2022, 03:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
We were having a discussion earlier and I can't think of a greater leader Russia ever had.

Catherine and Peter were Great, but not Gorby kind of great.
Agreed. How many leaders ended a war with relatively few fatalities? He ended the Cold War.
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Old 31st August 2022, 04:30 AM   #12
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Gorbachev had his flaws, of course, for example, covering up the Chernobyl accident by getting young people to parade as though everything was normal in radioactive polluted air. However, yes glasnost and perestroika was the work of a true statesman, especially when you consider he came from a very poor background and it was rare for someone of his peasant ilk to get to study at a top university. It was only by pure chance Gorbachev got his feet under the presidential table, as it were, with Andropov and the other fellow dropping off very quickly.

Once perestroika was under way, there was probably very little Gorbachev could do to stop Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and others from baying for independence, and getting it. The big symbolic historical moment of course that will go down in history for decades, is the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Suddenly, the hated Stasi - gone. The KGB - gone.


Enter a resentful ex-KGB Lt. Col.: one Vladimir Putin, stewing, having to leave East Germany, where he had to work as a cab driver - how far had the mighty fallen! - and having to return to St Petersburg with just 200 roubles in his pocket. Brooding and grudgeful of the old USSR empire disassembled and with the former collectivised industries now privatised, such as Gazprom. In moved the corrupt and the unscrupulous. Buying out the hitherto nationalised industries and then selling them at multiple times their worth (e.g., Abramovich, former Chelsea FC owner), Putin, rising up from mayor of Petersburg to President of Mother Russia, made sure a cut of all profits came back to him via proxies spread across his extensive family network.

Putin is the inevitable, perhaps natural heir to an empire where axes remained in need of grinding and gauntlets throwing down, together with the racketeers' eyes on the proceeds of criminal enterprises disguised as Russian government policies.

From Gorbachev to Putin, but in the stark comparison of the two, the whole world - and it cannot be lost on Putin - can see with clear eyes which of the two is the great man of history and which the rogue.
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Old 31st August 2022, 02:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
I just wonder what the alternative was. The USSR was already falling apart. Maybe civil war?
yes, the USSR was falliing apart when Gorby took office.
He did a good job of managing the collapse; but not sure I would call him a great man.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 04:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
He did a good job of managing the collapse; but not sure I would call him a great man.
I would. How many others could inherit a power block in that state, and move it forwards without a nightmare civil war?
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Old 2nd September 2022, 05:53 AM   #15
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indeed.
Gorbachev could have easily started a war with .. any of the seditious parts of the USSR, and be praised for it.

Instead, for not using violence to keep the System on life support, he is vilified at home.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 03:53 PM   #16
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Pizza Hut wsg Gorbachev

It's all our fault. We gave them the world's ********* pizza and it all went to hell from there.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 03:48 AM   #17
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When did the west start calling him 'Gorbachev' when the slavic languages have him as 'Gorbačov' (not 'Gorbačev')?
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:05 AM   #18
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Not too long ago I was shopping at a discounter and had, among many other things, a bottle of Wodka Gorbatschow in my cart. And that masked-up boomer moron in front of me at the line threw a hissy, "what, they are still selling that?" Because of Putin. I clued him in that Wodka Gorbatschow, the most sold Vodka-brand in Germany, is not a Russian product, but produced in Berlin. And he literally went "ok, then Prost". What a dolt.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:12 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Agreed. How many leaders ended a war with relatively few fatalities? He ended the Cold War.
I dunno. It seems to me that if the Cold War were over, either NATO would be in Ukraine right now, or Russia wouldn't.

What Gorbachev did do, however, is still pretty significant: He presided over the fall of the Iron Curtain and the liberation of Eastern Europe. And the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

But Russia never gave up its hegemonic ambition, nor the nuclear deterrent that underwrites that ambition. Gorbachev did a lot, but he didn't end the Cold War.

And he left behind a Russia that is on the road to being a failed state, rather than a prosperous and a modern nation.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
When did the west start calling him 'Gorbachev' when the slavic languages have him as 'Gorbačov' (not 'Gorbačev')?
I can't recall him being called anything else.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I dunno. It seems to me that if the Cold War were over, either NATO would be in Ukraine right now, or Russia wouldn't.

What Gorbachev did do, however, is still pretty significant: He presided over the fall of the Iron Curtain and the liberation of Eastern Europe. And the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

But Russia never gave up its hegemonic ambition, nor the nuclear deterrent that underwrites that ambition. Gorbachev did a lot, but he didn't end the Cold War.

And he left behind a Russia that is on the road to being a failed state, rather than a prosperous and a modern nation.
He couldn't do everything. Most historically significant IMV was the end of communism. The Baltic states are now a part of western democratic Europe.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:43 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I can't recall him being called anything else.

Well, in German he's called Gorbatschow, which is in line with the Slavic name Vixen relayed. But he has nothing to do with the vodka company which operates for a century.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 04:46 AM   #23
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He's btw despised among most Russians for being a traitor, while in "the West" he is sold as a hero. I really have no strong opinions on the man, if anything slightly positive. May he rest in peace.

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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:08 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Well, in German he's called Gorbatschow, which is in line with the Slavic name Vixen relayed. But he has nothing to do with the vodka company which operates for a century.
In Amurica we speak Murican.
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