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Tags 2020 elections , 9/11 truthers , marianne williamson , presidential candidates

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Old 19th September 2019, 04:57 PM   #1
dudalb
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9/11 Truth becomes a 2020 campaign issue..sort of.

Marianne Williamson, New Age Guru turned Democratic Presendential Candidate played footsy with 9/11 Truthers back in 2012:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/polit...ile/index.html

I say sort of because her bid was going nowhere fast, but already other contenders are hitting her hard with this and it will hasten her inevitable departure from the race.
But it shows how toxic being associated with the Truth movement has become. Sort of a kiss of death, really if you have any real political ambitions.
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Old 19th September 2019, 05:42 PM   #2
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In a 2012 radio appearance, "Williamson declined to challenge the host's conspiracy theory and said that questioning the factual history of the September 11, 2001, attacks was acceptable".

"Sort of", indeed!
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Old 19th September 2019, 06:59 PM   #3
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At least she didn't push the controlled demolition nonsense.
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Old 19th September 2019, 09:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Marianne Williamson, New Age Guru turned Democratic Presendential Candidate played footsy with 9/11 Truthers back in 2012:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/polit...ile/index.html

I say sort of because her bid was going nowhere fast, but already other contenders are hitting her hard with this and it will hasten her inevitable departure from the race.
But it shows how toxic being associated with the Truth movement has become. Sort of a kiss of death, really if you have any real political ambitions.
It's been that way for awhile; just ask Van Jones.

ETA: Apparently she went on Kevin "Hang 'Em All" Barrett's program. I guess she's lucky he didn't start spouting his beliefs about the holocaust.
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Last edited by Brainster; 19th September 2019 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:37 AM   #5
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Mind you, she said that questioning the factual history of the 9/11 attacks was no different to questioning the findings of the Warren Commission, which I think quite a few of us could agree with.

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Old 20th September 2019, 01:40 AM   #6
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Can Trump really risk ceding the 9/11 Truther vote to Williamson?
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Old 20th September 2019, 06:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Can Trump really risk ceding the 9/11 Truther vote to Williamson?
All 40,000 of them? Yes. Yes he can.
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Old 20th September 2019, 03:07 PM   #8
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Yeah on second read she's not Mike Gravel.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Can Trump really risk ceding the 9/11 Truther vote to Williamson?
All 40,000 of them? Yes. Yes he can.
Restate the question "WILL Trump really risk ceding the 9/11 Truther vote....?"
I'm sure he can - I'm not sure he will.

But then I'm not the person to predict US politics - esp the circus of US Presidential Elections. His record shows that he reads the electorate well, is fully aware of how much he can get away with. And doesn't hesitate to play for the minorities.
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Old 21st September 2019, 04:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Restate the question "WILL Trump really risk ceding the 9/11 Truther vote....?"
I'm sure he can - I'm not sure he will.

But then I'm not the person to predict US politics - esp the circus of US Presidential Elections. His record shows that he reads the electorate well, is fully aware of how much he can get away with. And doesn't hesitate to play for the minorities.
My point was that the Truther crowd is so tiny and insignificant in numbers, not even Trump needs to give a damn.

But if he does give a damn, he should consider that you can hardly find a more anti-Israel, pro-muslim (and particularly pro-Iran) group than 9/11 Truth - both of which fly in the face of Trump's brand of bigotry.
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Old 21st September 2019, 03:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
My point was that the Truther crowd is so tiny and insignificant in numbers, not even Trump needs to give a damn.
Yes. your point was clear. I though my response was also clear.
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Old 21st September 2019, 04:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
All 40,000 of them? Yes. Yes he can.
I wouldn't be so sure... I've heard that Trump-supporting 9/11 Truthers are concentrated in the swing states...
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Old 21st September 2019, 06:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
I wouldn't be so sure... I've heard that Trump-supporting 9/11 Truthers are concentrated in the swing states...
He can ask Alex Jones to help.....though Inote Donnie has been keeping his distance from Jones recently.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 06:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
I wouldn't be so sure... I've heard that Trump-supporting 9/11 Truthers are concentrated in the swing states...
California, Colorado and Oregon are swing states?
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Old 22nd September 2019, 10:25 AM   #15
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California is full of truthers! lol
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Old 22nd September 2019, 12:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
California, Colorado and Oregon are swing states?
Don't forget that hotbed of interest for Presidential contenders: Idaho.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 07:50 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
California is full of truthers! lol

I hate to say it, since I am a Californian, but we have always had more then our share of kooks.
From Personal expereince I can tell you back in 2001/2010, Berkely was packed with Truthers. You could not walk down Telegrpah Avenue without passing Truther posters or Truther passing out or peddlng their crap literature.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 11:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I hate to say it, since I am a Californian, but we have always had more then our share of kooks.
From Personal expereince I can tell you back in 2001/2010, Berkely was packed with Truthers. You could not walk down Telegrpah Avenue without passing Truther posters or Truther passing out or peddlng their crap literature.
I hate to say it, but this is right. California is indeed the Land of Fruits and Nuts.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 01:25 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
But if he does give a damn, he should consider that you can hardly find a more anti-Israel, pro-muslim (and particularly pro-Iran) group than 9/11 Truth - both of which fly in the face of Trump's brand of bigotry.
It's so cute that you think elementary logic is a factor here.

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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
My point was that the Truther crowd is so tiny and insignificant in numbers, not even Trump needs to give a damn.

But if he does give a damn, he should consider that you can hardly find a more anti-Israel, pro-muslim (and particularly pro-Iran) group than 9/11 Truth - both of which fly in the face of Trump's brand of bigotry.
Not sure I would agree that twoofers are pro-Muslim. The whole "cave-dweller" thing was pretty damned racist.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:47 AM   #21
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Par for the course for a woo and conspiracy peddler. Anyone who has any success being a pseudointellectual pushing this nonsense learns not to alienate their fellow travelers. Even if Williamson doesn't believe 9/11 conspiracy crap, she knows well enough not to step on the toes of her fellow cranks.

The woo and conspiracy world is full of little niche communities, but they have long learned to take a live and let live policy towards one another. Trying to get a conspiracy crank to outright and forcefully deny an unrelated conspiracy or woo is often extremely difficult, even if they don't actually believe it.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 02:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Par for the course for a woo and conspiracy peddler. Anyone who has any success being a pseudointellectual pushing this nonsense learns not to alienate their fellow travelers. Even if Williamson doesn't believe 9/11 conspiracy crap, she knows well enough not to step on the toes of her fellow cranks.

The woo and conspiracy world is full of little niche communities, but they have long learned to take a live and let live policy towards one another. Trying to get a conspiracy crank to outright and forcefully deny an unrelated conspiracy or woo is often extremely difficult, even if they don't actually believe it.
I have to strongly disagree with your last statement.
The conspiracy world is full of savage infighting, the Truthers in particular.
And, of course, the favorite tactic is to accuse your opponents of being "Disinfo"...on the payroll of The Government.
But I agree that Williamson has gotten rich peddling New Age Crap,and it's not surprising she would dabble in other areas of woo.
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Old 24th September 2019, 05:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have to strongly disagree with your last statement.
The conspiracy world is full of savage infighting, the Truthers in particular.
And, of course, the favorite tactic is to accuse your opponents of being "Disinfo"...on the payroll of The Government.
But I agree that Williamson has gotten rich peddling New Age Crap,and it's not surprising she would dabble in other areas of woo.
I hadn't considered that, I suppose that is true. Within a certain conspiracy, I imagine there is plenty of dispute, because they are often mutually exclusive explanations. Mossad vs CIA controlled demo explanations could be pretty fiesty.

My point is that a 9/11 truther isn't going to go out of their way to dump on anti-vax or flat earth, which you might expect. I think there is a common understanding that they are all fellow travelers for "truth", even if that takes forms they don't agree with.
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Old 24th September 2019, 05:52 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Not sure I would agree that twoofers are pro-Muslim. The whole "cave-dweller" thing was pretty damned racist.
"Pro-muslim" needs not mean "we accept them as equal and grant them the same respect and liberties as everyone else". It could also well be an attitude similar to that reserved for pet dogs and little children.

(Don't underestimate the proportion of actual muslims among Truthers, of course)
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Old 24th September 2019, 08:49 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
"Pro-muslim" needs not mean "we accept them as equal and grant them the same respect and liberties as everyone else". It could also well be an attitude similar to that reserved for pet dogs and little children.

(Don't underestimate the proportion of actual muslims among Truthers, of course)
Many Muslims believe Israel helped carry out the attacks. I may have never started down the 9/11 hole if it weren't for my stepdaughter's Muslim father, who gave me a copy of Loose Change he helped circulate at his mosque in 2007. (He also gave me a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which I guess he took seriously.) A look at memri.org will shed lots of light on that subject.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:59 AM   #26
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Thanks for the link, Matt!
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Old 26th September 2019, 07:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Yeah on second read she's not Mike Gravel.
Gravel is something else.
The he goes from left to right and then back again is incredible. I think in less then Six months, he joined the Libertarian Party and then supported Bernie Sanders.....
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Old 26th September 2019, 07:26 PM   #28
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I think it's safe to call Williamson's campaign a small footnote to a footnote in the 2020 race. By August 6, she had less than 1% of the democratic vote.
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