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Old 6th February 2019, 05:22 AM   #241
applecorped
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In a 2014 interview the 66-year-old actor claimed that 'we all racial profile'




We do?



How convenient [church lady voice]
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:23 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Because if you are able to see his skin colour you are also able to see someone's height and build and hair colour and a number of other things about them.
Maybe. Maybe not. I wouldn't presume what you could see or not see when you're being assaulted and raped. Why would you?
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:24 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Liam supported Hillary. He gets a pass
That's low, even for you.

Who here would even know whether he supporter Hillary, except those who, like you, are obsessed with her? You're seeing connections where none exist.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:38 AM   #244
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Liam Nelson is all talk.

Not like George Zimmerman
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:41 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Maybe. Maybe not. I wouldn't presume what you could see or not see when you're being assaulted and raped. Why would you?
Because I am able to exercise common sense rather than argue nonsense even I don't believe to make a point?
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:46 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Because I am able to exercise common sense rather than argue nonsense even I don't believe to make a point?
You really should know how much common sense is worth here. "Common sense" is just a way to make your personal hunches seem more likely to be true than they really are.

And don't pretend to know what I believe or not. Like with Liam Neeson, you have no idea. I don't know what information Neeson had, and neither do you, but since we're speculating about each other's motivations, I'll opine that you are assuming that you do know, in order to retroactively support a conclusion you'Ve already decided on.

See how unproductive that is?
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:56 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Presumably because that's the data he had, no?
Technically that's the data he asked for. It's potentially more telling that he asked about colour not nationality / religion/ whatever.

He only started equating nationality after it became apparent that people had reacted to his film promoting, vigilante story by pointing out it seemed racist as well...

Still, since I doubt his infallible recall of an event from years ago, I'm inclined to agree with Baron's assessment, he's a tosser.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:05 AM   #248
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I dont know why this makes him a racist now?

He said it was several years ago and that he was ashamed of his actions.

Is racism like alcholism? Once a racist always a racist?
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:06 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Technically that's the data he asked for.
Maybe, but that doesn't tell us much, really, since it's the most obvious thing about someone, visually speaking.

I'm not defending Neeson. I just don't like it when we extrapolate based on lack of information. Isn't that something we usually frown at, here?
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:10 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
I dont know why this makes him a racist now?

He said it was several years ago and that he was ashamed of his actions.

Is racism like alcholism? Once a racist always a racist?
Yeah, I don't see any discussion about how to view him now. What I've seen here is people trying to deny that what he did then was even racist in the first place.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:13 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The rapist was described to him as black. It would be odd if he then went out and targeted Lithuanians.
According to him (though I place little stock in his anecdote) he asked what colour he was rather than having it described to him. Interesting and revealing thing to ask - if that's how it played out.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:15 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That was in the original interview, in a later interview he also said he was trying to find out what group of people the rapist came from and he referenced other groups, which was clearly based on who was in Ireland at that time, which was primarily Irish with a few smaller sub groups.
What, the interview after he was called out for being racist?
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:21 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, I don't see any discussion about how to view him now. What I've seen here is people trying to deny that what he did then was even racist in the first place.
Trying to offer perspective to those who conclude that it was racist from the get-go.

I've also admitted my mistake about the word's definition.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:21 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
I dont know why this makes him a racist now?

He said it was several years ago and that he was ashamed of his actions.

Is racism like alcholism? Once a racist always a racist?
No, I don't think so at all. I don't even think alcoholism is like alcoholism in that sense.

From what I can see, there are three opinions:

1) Is it really racist to track someone down for a crime they did not commit purely on the basis of skin colour alone?

2) Of course it is bloody racist to track someone down for a crime they did not commit purely on the basis of skin colour alone. (This opinion is usually followed up with the point that while the action was certainly racist, his contrition and other factors are insufficient reasons to claim that Liam Neeson is now, in 2019, a racist).

Oh, and

3) Skeptic Tank's one note racist view that the largest contributor to chaos during the Troubles in Northern Ireland is the introduction of black people.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:30 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Maybe, but that doesn't tell us much, really, since it's the most obvious thing about someone, visually speaking.

I'm not defending Neeson. I just don't like it when we extrapolate based on lack of information. Isn't that something we usually frown at, here?
Not in Ireland at the time, when there was a very small black population...not unless he associated black people with violent crime - oh wait, that would make him racist!

To be fair, I don't have strong views about this and certainly don't put any great stock in forensic analysis of his supposed anecdote from some time ago and couldn't really give a flying **** about Liam Neeson whose films don't interest me. I just thought it was hysterical when I heard a news report saying he'd denied that wanting to assault anyone of the same colour as this rapist meant he was racist. It absolutely does mean that and couldn't be interpreted any other way.

Is he really a racist? Probably, but likely only in the soft way that my Daily Mail reading mother is ('I'm not racist but...') rather than proactively so, but you can't expect to relate a story about a) asking the skin colour of an attacker as if that was the most relevant thing (NB as opposed to asking for a description) and b) deciding you want to assault anyone of that skin colour as if they automatically share the guilt for doing so and not expect people to think that's a teensy bit racist.

Personally I suspect it's all bollocks that he thought would make him seem like a big man and drum up publicity and now he's frantically back-pedalling because his inherent, albeit 'soft' racism has spilled out a bit and blown up in his face.

As Baron says 'Tosser'.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:34 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Not in Ireland at the time
Excuse me, not what in Ireland at the time? I'm not sure what you're responding to. Do you mean that, given the low population of blacks there at the time it would be an odd thing to ask for?

Quote:
To be fair, I don't have strong views about this and certainly don't put any great stock in forensic analysis of his supposed anecdote from some time ago and couldn't really give a flying **** about Liam Neeson whose films don't interest me. I just thought it was hysterical when I heard a news report saying he'd denied that wanting to assault anyone of the same colour as this rapist meant he was racist. It absolutely does mean that and couldn't be interpreted any other way.
I think he did say it was racist and that he regrets it. He also says that it wouldn't matter what other characteristic the rapist had, so long as he could use it to fuel his rage.

Quote:
Is he really a racist? Probably
Again I think that's uncalled for, especially given that he explicitely said it was stupid of him, and it's been a long time since then. Plus as someone has noted upthread, doing something that fits the wider definition of racism does not make one a person that fits the narrow definition of racist.

Quote:
Personally I suspect it's all bollocks that he thought would make him seem like a big man and drum up publicity and now he's frantically back-pedalling because his inherent, albeit 'soft' racism has spilled out a bit and blown up in his face.
That doesn't make sense. He noted how stupid it was even as he was recalling the story. That doesn't sound like someone who wants to sound tough.
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:53 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Excuse me, not what in Ireland at the time? I'm not sure what you're responding to. Do you mean that, given the low population of blacks there at the time it would be an odd thing to ask for?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think he did say it was racist and that he regrets it. He also says that it wouldn't matter what other characteristic the rapist had, so long as he could use it to fuel his rage.
The latter part was after the ********* so I take it with a pinch of salt, especially if you accept that he was moved to ask 'What colour was he' as if that mattered. On the first bit, I was more reacting to the news report I heard rather than the actual full interview - I accept in that he accepted it was racist but denied he was...now.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Again I think that's uncalled for, especially given that he explicitely said it was stupid of him, and it's been a long time since then. Plus as someone has noted upthread, doing something that fits the wider definition of racism does not make one a person that fits the narrow definition of racist.
I'm going more on what details he decided to include but you're right, it's a weakly supported assertion.


Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That doesn't make sense. He noted how stupid it was even as he was recalling the story. That doesn't sound like someone who wants to sound tough.
Oh come on, it's typical 'faux modest big man talk'. 'Yeah I know it was stupid taking the law into my own hands but...'
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Old 6th February 2019, 06:58 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
Ok fair enough.

Quote:
The latter part was after the ********* so I take it with a pinch of salt
So do I, though I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
Oh come on, it's typical 'faux modest big man talk'. 'Yeah I know it was stupid taking the law into my own hands but...'
Really? I've always been under the impression that you usually don't include the fact that you were being stupid and wrong in the story, when you want to sound tough and righteous.
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Old 6th February 2019, 12:15 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
According to him (though I place little stock in his anecdote) he asked what colour he was rather than having it described to him. Interesting and revealing thing to ask - if that's how it played out.
Isn't that one of the first questions law enforcement asks a victim when trying to get a description of the suspect? I would assume they do that in order to eliminate large numbers of suspects much more easily than general physical features like height and weight.

Technically he didn't go straight to race. He had already pick up details such as that the suspect was male and had physical features which made it possible for her to be overpowered and unable to resist.
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Old 6th February 2019, 12:25 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Absolutely! John Barnes said the same thing to the Sky News guy who said something like, "a cynical part of me might say he's just trying to drum up a bit of publicity for his new film..."

Barnes retorted something like, "Do you really think he wants the whole world to think he's a racist and receive a massive backlash for these words just to promote a film?!?"
Any good PR person will tell you that "Any Publicity Is Good Publcity"is pure nonsense.
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:48 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
.....


Well let's try this another way. If it was the police rather than Neeson who had been reported that a black man had raped a woman and they went out and arrested every black man they could find and charged him with rape then I hope we could agree that would be racist policing? Neeson is effectively doing the same thing here.



....
The difference is that in your scenario the police have arrested every black person they can find and charged them with rape, no matter the evidence. Neeson just walked around, angry for a while and did nothing.

Neeson was venting and all mouth, no trousers.

What he did was racist/stupid, in that I do not think he is a racist, like a member of the KKK is racist, but he was stupid.
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:52 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
According to him (though I place little stock in his anecdote) he asked what colour he was rather than having it described to him. Interesting and revealing thing to ask - if that's how it played out.
From the start, I thought his description of the initial conversation was odd and it made me think he is not remembering what actually happened properly. The interview is him describing confused and disfunctional emotions.

Everything he he has said subsequently confirms that.
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Old 6th February 2019, 01:56 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Isn't that one of the first questions law enforcement asks a victim when trying to get a description of the suspect? I would assume they do that in order to eliminate large numbers of suspects much more easily than general physical features like height and weight.

Technically he didn't go straight to race. He had already pick up details such as that the suspect was male and had physical features which made it possible for her to be overpowered and unable to resist.
Considering how few black people there were in Ireland then, it is very odd to suggest the very first question asked would have been, is he black?

I would not be surprised that on asking about the male, Neeson found out he was black and because that was so distinctive, when he relates the conversation decades later, it is the part he remembers best, because it is so distinctive.
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:22 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wait, how is it racist? Racism is seeing members of another ethnic group as inferior or evil.

No, it's not! Seeing members of another race as superior is racist, too.

Quote:
Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.
Racism (Wikipedia)

Quote:
Seeing someone you hate in people who share some characteristic with them is irrational but quite human. If the attacker had had red hair, the effect might've been the same.

Yes, the well-known gingerism. Do you think you're fooling anybody but yourself?! This is literally the stuff that comedies are made of!

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Just because something involves a black person doesn't make it racist.

How did you get to the abstraction involves?!
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Old 6th February 2019, 02:29 PM   #265
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You don't need a good memory if you tell the truth. I'm sure I heard that somewhere.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:39 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
I dont know why this makes him a racist now?

He said it was several years ago and that he was ashamed of his actions.

Is racism like alcholism? Once a racist always a racist?
Unless you have some kind of an epiphany (or a 'woke' for the Americans amongst us), why would you ever have the impetous to change?

When I was a kid I thought it was natural to vote conservative, because that is how I was inculcated at my conservative school. It was only when I was older I realised I had been groomed to think that way.
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Old 6th February 2019, 03:42 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
According to him (though I place little stock in his anecdote) he asked what colour he was rather than having it described to him. Interesting and revealing thing to ask - if that's how it played out.
That's not necessarily bad. People are often naturally curious to know the ethnicity of someone in the news.

The racist part is using the phrase 'black bastard'. I've met people like Neeson, and the dead giveaway is their use of words like 'spade'.

It's an ego trip to make themselves feel superior.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:00 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yes, I'd forgotten that other term. Either way, not a "crowbar."
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:01 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's not necessarily bad. People are often naturally curious to know the ethnicity of someone in the news.

The racist part is using the phrase 'black bastard'. I've met people like Neeson, and the dead giveaway is their use of words like 'spade'.

It's an ego trip to make themselves feel superior.
I took that as two adjectives to describe the rapist. The former being his race/appearance, the latter being the characterization of someone who rapes. I did not see that as saying all black people are bastards.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:04 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The article said a cosh was a crobar. Being euro illiterate, I believed it. Thanks for clarifyng. Is a cosh something that can be carried legally?
No, the article was wrong. A cosh/blackjack would be considered an offensive weapon, so not legal to carry.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:07 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Do you think you're fooling anybody but yourself?! This is literally the stuff that comedies are made of!
Well, I'm sure a discussion with you on this topic will be completely civil and rational.
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:45 PM   #272
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I knew he was a racist in 1990 when he starred in "Darkman".
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:10 PM   #273
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It doesn't really surprise me that someone who grew up in Ballymena 40 years ago would have that tribal mentality that if someone hurts you or yours you take revenge on one of 'theirs' in return. That really was the mentality that underpinned much of the Troubles.


He clearly knows better now than to be a racist dick so its a bit late for the pitch fork mob really. His career's probably over though.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:13 PM   #274
Meadmaker
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The world has gone mad.


A guy makes a confession that once, when confronted with an absolutely horrible situation, he acted irrationally and, in his own words, horribly, and he realizes just how bad it was, even though he didn't actually do anything that harmed anyone. He didn't say anything bad to anyone. He didn't hit anyone. He didn't threaten anyone. He didn't do anything at all, although he contemplated it.


And now people say we shouldn't watch his movies.

This is madness.

Human beings are not, by nature, good. We are subject to base instincts and emotions just like our base cousins in the animal kingdom. Liam Neeson was confronted with a situation where those base instincts rose to the surface....almost, but his higher self, his rational mind, did resume control, and not only did he not inflict harm on anyone, he realized the horror of what he had been fantasizing about.


And fantasy is what it was. If he had truly wanted to kill someone, does anyone think it would have been impossible to find a victim? He was acting out vicious thoughts, but only partially, and he gained control before anything bad happened. And he confessed it. And now, people think we shouldn't watch his films.


As a society, we have become a bunch of self-righteous gits.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:18 PM   #275
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Isn't that one of the first questions law enforcement asks a victim when trying to get a description of the suspect? I would assume they do that in order to eliminate large numbers of suspects much more easily than general physical features like height and weight.

Technically he didn't go straight to race. He had already pick up details such as that the suspect was male and had physical features which made it possible for her to be overpowered and unable to resist.
In the early '80s, I was in a situation where I was reporting as a witness to police. They asked me what the suspect looked like. I started to describe his height, weight, etc......because I didn't want to mention.....you know.....

And the cop rolled his eyes and said, "Was he black or white?"


Sex, race, age if you got a look at the person. Those are what you know and say right away. Then you try to estimate height and weight, but race is definitely one of the first things people ask about.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:18 PM   #276
theprestige
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Madness, yes. But an entirely foreseeable madness, and an entirely predictable backlash. I'm still boggled that he thought this confession was a good idea.

News of the interview must have hit Lionsgate like a bullet in the gut. I bet his agent will have an ulcer before he gets another part.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:24 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Any good PR person will tell you that "Any Publicity Is Good Publcity"is pure nonsense.
It didnít work for Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby, Louis CK or Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:24 PM   #278
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The rapist was described to him as black. It would be odd if he then went out and targeted Lithuanians.
To be fair, if she had told him "white", it isn't likely he would have gone out looking for white guys to beat on. There would have to be some identifiable trait that the perp had, but which Neeson didn't share, something that made him unmistakably part of "THEM", and then he goes after one of "THEM".

It's not admirable. That's the point. It made him realize just how irrational it was, and he grew from it. It doesn't make me think of him as an awesome fella, but he's still a good actor and he makes movies that are good, and people shouldn't be boycotted because they revealed some sort of bad behavior from their past. It's crazy. Everyone will be looking over their shoulder wondering who might find out that they once did something that they wouldn't do 20 years later.
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:31 PM   #279
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To be fair, if she had told him "white", it isn't likely he would have gone out looking for white guys to beat on. There would have to be some identifiable trait that the perp had, but which Neeson didn't share, something that made him unmistakably part of "THEM", and then he goes after one of "THEM".
I keep seeing this.

I would like to know why it is so unlikely, given at the time white dudes were killing each other every day over a stupid religious preference
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:36 PM   #280
Strawberry
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I keep seeing this.

I would like to know why it is so unlikely, given at the time white dudes were killing each other every day over a stupid religious preference
That's not actually why they were killing each other, but explaining The Troubles is not really a conversation for this thread.

Meadmaker is correct, there would have to have been some other identifying factor other than white dude for Neeson to be out looking for one of that group, otherwise he could just have stayed home and beat himself up.
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