New CIT video with Lloyde England - Page 49

Oystein · 1st February 2021, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

...

You blokes are just as bad, ..., you also believe he lied about his location and about the identity of the pole in his cab.

...

Ruby, can you provide QUOTES by at least two of us "blokes" that show they believe he LIED, as opposed to being merely mistaken? "Lie" implies not inly that a statement is wrong, but also a) that the speaker knows it's wrong and b) utters it with an intention to deceive.

Alternatively, you could retract the accusation against us blokes and apologize.

Failing to do either shall reveal that YOU are the liar here, as it shows you must know no debunker here ever implied Lloyd lied, and that you made this up with an intention to deceive (for this ain't jokes nor Entertainment).

pgimeno · 1st February 2021, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

They claim we must respect Lloyde's testimony and his cab as witnesses to the truth of what happened on 9/11, then disrespect him majorly by condescendingly allowing that he was "confused" or "forgetful" about his location when the plane flew across the road in front of him, and he saw it for only a split second. They are effectively accusing him of being a likeable liar.

To lie is to give false information intentionally, with intent to deceive. Being wrong is not lying. Lloyde was not lying; he was convinced he was right, except, he wasn't.

Stop making accusations like that. Also what Oystein said.

bknight · 1st February 2021, 01:02 PM

Inserted ruby quoute

Originally Posted by rubygray

https://youtu.be/YjXTrHCHsJA

I'm sorry but that video doesn't show the cab is not diagonal to the lanes.
Show show me where the cab is positioned NOT diagonal to the lanes. That is your contention. Ms. Davis is not a credible witness.

ETA:

Quote:

As you can see from the video screenshot, when it first came to rest, the cab was not diagonally across the road.
It was parallel with the concrete divider.
The pole was only about 12 feet long, and extended only as far as the front of the hood.
The pole also was in line with the highway, facing South away from oncoming traffic. Not very noticeable from that angle at all.
There were 3 lanes here beneath the overhead sign. Plenty of room to drive past.
After all, both Steve Riskus in his red sedan, and the Silent Stranger in the White Van, drove past Lloyde. The towtruck and trailer also had plenty of room to drive north by side him, and do U-turn behind him.
The diagonal cab was an artifice dreamed up by whomever designed the bridge-cab-pole scene.
The decoy cab which was posed there from 9:37 - 9:44 was skewed across the road, as can be seen in the same video shot from the triage site opposite the heliport, and also in the video shot from the bridge. Photos even show skid marks curving towards the cab's wheels.
When Lloyde's cab was relocated there, it was carefully placed in the same diagonal configuration.
Jerri Davis may or may not have have taken any notice of the cab.
But she DID mention that "ALL THIS STUFF WAS ON THE ROAD".

As Lloyde said,
"Glass was everywhere,"
and he had to swerve to miss the OTHER piece of pole on the road.

Unfortunately Craig never thought to ask her more details about the man she saw who was trying to flag her down. Was he black? Wearing bike leathers, a light blue cap and shirt? Did she see a Capitol Cab? What age would the guy have been? Could she recognise him from a photo lineup?

from post #1911.

Axxman300 · 1st February 2021, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by pgimeno

To lie is to give false information intentionally, with intent to deceive. Being wrong is not lying. Lloyde was not lying; he was convinced he was right, except, he wasn't.

Stop making accusations like that. Also what Oystein said.

I don't have the percentage breakdown, but it seems that half of the Titanic's survivors saw the ship break while the others did not. We know the ship broke apart on the surface. I can't think of a better example of hundreds of people in the same situation seeing the same thing and interpreting it differently than what happened in reality.

That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant.

ozeco41 · 1st February 2021, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant.

Or "work from the right end of the argument" AKA don't start with the conclusion oR from the middle of the reasoning.

Just as all the "no video" and "wrong flight path" arguments CANNOT falsify the "wreckage and remains were inside Pentagon".

Or the Twin Towers equivalent where the starting point is "the physics shows that there was no need for help from Explosive of Incendiary CD"....

And the generic issue is the long established habit of us generous helpful debunkers accepting "Reversed Burden of DISproof" - we don't demand that truthers "prove" their claims. They most often cannot even define their claim let alone prove it. So we try to debunk everything AND accept the handicap of the false framing of claim set by the truthers...

OK [/EndRant] 14 years of ongoing frustration slightly eased. Please return to your normal scheduled programs.

beachnut · 1st February 2021, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by rubygray

...
He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken. ...

LOL, this is BS. More proof you have no clue what happen on 9/11.

The best part, your fantasy version of 9/11 is debunked by FDR, Radar, and DNA.

Axxman300 · 2nd February 2021, 01:43 AM

I guess I'm lost.

Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass:

[IMG]

[/IMG]

As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing.

Gamolon · 2nd February 2021, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

Pointless trying to address anything when I have reached the Skeptics mingy quota of photo uploads.

What a lame excuse. You deem it pointless because admitting your mistakes and inconsistencies would ruin what you believe you have built up in the credibility department as a "thorough researcher".

Let's take one of your fantasy explanations that doesn't need any images at all. You try to match Tony's experience/description with Lloyde's experience to make them seem they both experienced the same thing at the same time. What follows is proof that what Tony experienced and what LLoyde experienced were NOT at the same time.

Here is Tony's account of what he experienced:
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/lin...mazing1001.htm

Originally Posted by Tony Terronez

"So I got about 100 yards or so past the heliport and then all of the sudden I heard this loud screeching sound that just came out of nowhere and it intensified. This huge WHOOSH!⁽¹⁾ And something made me look in my rearview mirror and by the time I looked up I saw the side of the Pentagon explode.⁽²⁾

"I was stunned. It was just so surreal, like something out of a movie, like `Die Hard.' The side of a building just exploded! As the fireball got higher and higher, you saw this debris go up in the air.⁽³⁾ I'm watching this in my rearview mirror, and then I thought, `Oh my God, there's debris coming toward me!' So my reaction was, I ducked into my passenger seat⁽⁴⁾ and I heard the pitter-patter of pebbles and concrete bouncing off my car.⁽⁵⁾ And the next thing you know, I heard this big crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to look but everything was fine.⁽⁶⁾

Now look at the numbered descriptions in red above above.
(1)The "woosh" Tony heard was the plane flying behind him over the highway. This occurred at the same time the plane crossed over the highway for Lloyde. Immediately after that "woosh"/plane flying over, Lloyde had the light pole smash through his window. This is when Tony SHOULD have heard the "big crash/shattered glass" had it been from Lloyde's car.

That's not the case though is it?

After the plane flying over the highway, which both men experienced at the same time, Tony experienced MULTIPLE events happen before the "big crash/shattered glass" event he described. Tony described (2)Pentagon exploding, (3)Debris going into the air, (4)ducked into his seat, and (5)heard pitter-patter of debris. THEN Tony heard the (6)"crash/shattering of glass".

This shows that you thinking Tony and Lloyde experienced the same "light pole through the window event" is completely wrong. It's impossible.

Below is just more proof of your made up fanatsy. Explain why Tony never mentions the pole in Llyode's windshield. Why does he say "something" went through Lloyde's windshield instead of saying there was a pole sticking out of it? I'll tell you why. It was because it was a different car. Right next to him. In the northbound lane, Mot Lloyde's car.

Originally Posted by Tony Terronez

But when I looked to the car next to me I realized that something went through (the driver's) rear windshield and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something went through it.

"I put the car in park -- it's amazing how instinct takes over because I will never know how it is I kept my foot on the brake when I ducked at the same time. I should have rammed right into the guy in front of me. I got out of the car and the guy in front of me, he and I just looked at each other. It seemed like everybody who was on the road got out of their cars and just looked in disbelief as the fireball just kept getting bigger and bigger. My jaw was dropped, his jaw was dropped, and then, at that point, something about trying to make sure people were OK overtook me and I started going around to the people in the other cars to see if they were all right.

"I and the guy in front of me went to the car next to me and asked the driver if he was all right and if he was OK to drive. He was in shock, you could tell. He just kept looking straight ahead. He didn't even look back, he was so fixated on looking north. He didn't want to look south at the Pentagon. And it took a couple of times for me and the other guy to say, `Can you drive? Hello? Are you OK? Are you OK?' And he said, `Yeah, I think I can drive.' We asked him again, `Can you drive?' and that time he was more sure and said, `Yes, yes, I can drive.' Then both I and the guy in front of me looked at his rear windshield and saw what was about a four-inch hole in it and the rest of the window was shattered as if someone took a baseball bat to it.

Gamolon · 2nd February 2021, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

The pole was only about 12 feet long, and extended only as far as the front of the hood.

Tell us again way Tony Terronez never mentions this pole and says that "something" went through the windshield he was looking at? Was he blind? Maybe Tony didn't know how to describe the 12' pole sticking out of Lloyde's windshield and the only the word he could come up with was "something".

Gamolon · 2nd February 2021, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

I guess I'm lost.

Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass:

[img]

[/img]

As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field.

[img]

[/img]

Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing.

Also, there is no way that Ruby's fantasy tow truck/trailer would have fit between the front of Lloyde's cab and the guardrail of the bridge in order to unload it at that angle and location.

Gamolon · 2nd February 2021, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

Pointless trying to address anything when I have reached the Skeptics mingy quota of photo uploads.

You failed to address this gem of yours discussed below. How did Lloyde, in your fantasy world, get to the location between the southwest and southeast parts of the cloverleaf, south of the sign (Point 2 in red)? You never talk about or explain that yet you say he's there.

Originally Posted by Gamolon

Oh boy, do you have some MAJOR problems with your fantasy. Let's take a look.

Below is an image in which you point out Lloyd who supposedly has been banished to the center of the bridge. This is at 9:43:30am per the image below.

Below is the larger image which show where the location of the above frames were taken and at what time. The part in the box in the image below matches the above frames. Notice the vehicles entering the southbound lanes from the southeast part of cloverleaf on the right side of the image.

1. Based on the two images above and your own convoluted ramblings, Lloyd is NOT at the center of the bridge like you claim in the first image. He is south of the exit sign which puts him where the red circle is in the image below.

2. How did Lloyd get from the cemetery wall to his location south the exit sign? You have him falling down under the pole as he removed it from his car at 9:42:46am and then south of the exit sign at 9:43:30am. That's 44 seconds.

3. Based on the above, you have Lloyd being transported from the cemetery wall at 9:42:46am to the point south of the exit sign at 9:43:30am. From there you have him magically move from south of the sign to 50 yards north of where his cab will be so the brown Jeep can pick him up in the northbound lanes at 9:48:00am. Then the brown Jeep has to loop around via the cloverleaf and deposit him in front of his cab in the southbound lanes.

Below is an image of your rendition of Lloyd's travels. Point 1 at cemetery wall to Point 2 south of sign. Then from Point 2 to Point 3 north of where his cab will eventually be (how he got there, nobody knows). Then via brown Jeep, from Point 3 to Point 4.

Gamolon · 15th February 2021, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

Lloyde was chosen with the complicity of his cab firm, as proven by the two fares he was assigned in Rosslyn that set him up to be in the right place at the right time, and by the presence of an identical, undamaged Capitol Cab sitting in place on the bridge for the first 6 minutes until Lloyde's cab was relocated there for the photo opportunity.

He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken.

Hne was fired at with military planning, precision and technology, as is proven by the pole taken from the windshield which was no part of a lightpole, and Lloyde's proven location at that time, which was 400 yards north of the alleged flightpath of the plane.

Let me get this straight.

You think the perps PLANNED things this way?!

Is this how the planning meeting went?

Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?"
Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir."
Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?"
Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon."
Boss Perp: "No?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it.
Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?"
Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off."
Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?"
Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane."
Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over?
Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion."
Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon."
Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke."
Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!"
Boss Perp: "There is?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. "
Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?"
Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead."
Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?"
Peon Perp: "We want to make sure."
Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more."
Boss Perp: "More?!"
Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable."
Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory."
Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?"
Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path."
Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!"
Peon Perp: "Nope!"
Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!"
Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!"
Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!"
Boss Perp: "..."
Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though."
Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..."
Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT...
Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?"
Boss Perp: *scratches head*
Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it."
Boss Perp: *sigh* "I need a drink..."

Axxman300 · 15th February 2021, 01:26 PM

I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.

The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows.

I know. Crazy.

Gord_in_Toronto · 15th February 2021, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gamolon

Let me get this straight.

You think the perps PLANNED things this way?!

Is this how the planning meeting went?

Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?"
Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir."
Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?"
Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon."
Boss Perp: "No?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it.
Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?"
Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off."
Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?"
Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane."
Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over?
Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion."
Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon."
Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke."
Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!"
Boss Perp: "There is?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. "
Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?"
Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead."
Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?"
Peon Perp: "We want to make sure."
Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more."
Boss Perp: "More?!"
Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable."
Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory."
Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?"
Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path."
Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!"
Peon Perp: "Nope!"
Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!"
Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!"
Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!"
Boss Perp: "..."
Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though."
Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..."
Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT...
Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?"
Boss Perp: *scratches head*
Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it."
Boss Perp: *sigh* "I need a drink..."

You forgot about arranging the traffic flow so that Lloyd's cab and all the support infrastructure arrives at the right location at the exact time needed to pull the whole trick off!

bknight · 18th February 2021, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by rubygray

<snip unsupported BS>

He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken.

<snip unsupported BS>

You have yet to prove by means of images that may be examined to prove your allegation that this event occurred.

Fonebone · 18th February 2021, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.

The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows.

I know. Crazy.

Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals
and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring

[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.

Axxman300 · 18th February 2021, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fonebone

Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals
and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring

[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.

Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring?

Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed?

Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11?

Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi.

turingtest · 19th February 2021, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.

The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows.

I know. Crazy.

Originally Posted by Fonebone

Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals
and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring

[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.

Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling.

Axxman300 · 19th February 2021, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling.

It's like this...

Nazi Party: OMG, the Jewish Communists burned down our beloved Reichstag. We must consolidate power under the Nazi Party, with Hitler as our Fuhrer to protect the Fatherland.

German People (who were raised in an antisemitic society): Yes! Heil Hitler!

Bush Administration: Al Qaeda has attacked us. They could attack us again. We think Iraq will help them with WMDs. We need to invade Iraq to take Saddam out!

Americans (who had 10 years of living with a half-finished Desert Storm followed by our planes being shot at over the No-Fly Zone and pretty much wanted to kick Arab ass after 911 anyway): Great, you do that! We'll go shopping for the next 20 years! 'Muerica!

The truth is pretty ugly on its own, folks.

Fonebone · 20th February 2021, 12:08 PM

the forum is not displaying my posts correctly

Fonebone · 20th February 2021, 12:13 PM

Axxman300 >

Quote:

Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring?

Fonebone

Quote:

Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed?

Quote:

Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11?

Quote:

Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi.

Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring

[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.

Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey

Axxman300 · 20th February 2021, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Fonebone

Axxman300 >
Fonebone

Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring

[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.

Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey

...And?

Where is your proof 9-11 was an inside job?

And people who quote Nazis assassinate themselves.

beachnut · 20th February 2021, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fonebone

the forum is not displaying my posts correctly

It is a conspiracy...

bknight · 22nd February 2021, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by beachnut

It is a conspiracy...

I wished I would have thought of that.

Gravy · 6th March 2021, 08:59 AM

Sigh.

Oystein · 6th March 2021, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Sigh.

Aww come on, you needed 17,073 posts yourself to get to that point!

Gravy · 6th March 2021, 06:32 PM

Hey, lookit you with 17,001!

The Common Potato · 6th March 2021, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by beachnut

It is a conspiracy...

That's what they want you to think.

I find that random formatting helps.

The Common Potato · 6th March 2021, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

Aww come on, you needed 17,073 posts yourself to get to that point!

Fake news. It's way more than 17,073.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jql9qphj9l...43723.jpg?dl=0

The Common Potato · 6th March 2021, 09:38 PM

Oystein, on the other other hand. Well, I'd vote for Oystein - probably several times. Oystein tells the troothf.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utozltmygn...44649.jpg?dl=0

1st February 2021, 02:28 AM	#1921
Oystein Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17,001	Originally Posted by rubygray ... You blokes are just as bad, ..., you also believe he lied about his location and about the identity of the pole in his cab. ... Ruby, can you provide QUOTES by at least two of us "blokes" that show they believe he LIED, as opposed to being merely mistaken? "Lie" implies not inly that a statement is wrong, but also a) that the speaker knows it's wrong and b) utters it with an intention to deceive. Alternatively, you could retract the accusation against us blokes and apologize. Failing to do either shall reveal that YOU are the liar here, as it shows you must know no debunker here ever implied Lloyd lied, and that you made this up with an intention to deceive (for this ain't jokes nor Entertainment).
	__________________ Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

1st February 2021, 01:02 PM	#1923
bknight Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,359	Inserted ruby quoute Originally Posted by rubygray https://youtu.be/YjXTrHCHsJA I'm sorry but that video doesn't show the cab is not diagonal to the lanes. Show show me where the cab is positioned NOT diagonal to the lanes. That is your contention. Ms. Davis is not a credible witness. ETA: Quote: As you can see from the video screenshot, when it first came to rest, the cab was not diagonally across the road. It was parallel with the concrete divider. The pole was only about 12 feet long, and extended only as far as the front of the hood. The pole also was in line with the highway, facing South away from oncoming traffic. Not very noticeable from that angle at all. There were 3 lanes here beneath the overhead sign. Plenty of room to drive past. After all, both Steve Riskus in his red sedan, and the Silent Stranger in the White Van, drove past Lloyde. The towtruck and trailer also had plenty of room to drive north by side him, and do U-turn behind him. The diagonal cab was an artifice dreamed up by whomever designed the bridge-cab-pole scene. The decoy cab which was posed there from 9:37 - 9:44 was skewed across the road, as can be seen in the same video shot from the triage site opposite the heliport, and also in the video shot from the bridge. Photos even show skid marks curving towards the cab's wheels. When Lloyde's cab was relocated there, it was carefully placed in the same diagonal configuration. Jerri Davis may or may not have have taken any notice of the cab. But she DID mention that "ALL THIS STUFF WAS ON THE ROAD". As Lloyde said, "Glass was everywhere," and he had to swerve to miss the OTHER piece of pole on the road. Unfortunately Craig never thought to ask her more details about the man she saw who was trying to flag her down. Was he black? Wearing bike leathers, a light blue cap and shirt? Did she see a Capitol Cab? What age would the guy have been? Could she recognise him from a photo lineup? from post #1911.
	Last edited by bknight; 1st February 2021 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Inserted ruby quote

1st February 2021, 01:34 PM	#1924
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,902	Originally Posted by pgimeno To lie is to give false information intentionally, with intent to deceive. Being wrong is not lying. Lloyde was not lying; he was convinced he was right, except, he wasn't. Stop making accusations like that. Also what Oystein said. I don't have the percentage breakdown, but it seems that half of the Titanic's survivors saw the ship break while the others did not. We know the ship broke apart on the surface. I can't think of a better example of hundreds of people in the same situation seeing the same thing and interpreting it differently than what happened in reality. That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

1st February 2021, 08:48 PM	#1926
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 25,838	FDR proves a conspiracy theory is wrong, again Originally Posted by rubygray ... He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken. ... LOL, this is BS. More proof you have no clue what happen on 9/11. The best part, your fantasy version of 9/11 is debunked by FDR, Radar, and DNA.
	__________________ "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232

2nd February 2021, 01:43 AM	#1927
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,902	I guess I'm lost. Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass: [IMG][/IMG] As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field. [IMG][/IMG] Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

1st February 2021, 03:54 AM	#1922
pgimeno Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Spain Posts: 3,641	Originally Posted by rubygray They claim we must respect Lloyde's testimony and his cab as witnesses to the truth of what happened on 9/11, then disrespect him majorly by condescendingly allowing that he was "confused" or "forgetful" about his location when the plane flew across the road in front of him, and he saw it for only a split second. They are effectively accusing him of being a likeable liar. To lie is to give false information intentionally, with intent to deceive. Being wrong is not lying. Lloyde was not lying; he was convinced he was right, except, he wasn't. Stop making accusations like that. Also what Oystein said.

1st February 2021, 01:52 PM	#1925
ozeco41 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia Posts: 7,562	Originally Posted by Axxman300 That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant. Or "work from the right end of the argument" AKA don't start with the conclusion oR from the middle of the reasoning. Just as all the "no video" and "wrong flight path" arguments CANNOT falsify the "wreckage and remains were inside Pentagon". Or the Twin Towers equivalent where the starting point is "the physics shows that there was no need for help from Explosive of Incendiary CD".... And the generic issue is the long established habit of us generous helpful debunkers accepting "Reversed Burden of DISproof" - we don't demand that truthers "prove" their claims. They most often cannot even define their claim let alone prove it. So we try to debunk everything AND accept the handicap of the false framing of claim set by the truthers... OK [/EndRant] 14 years of ongoing frustration slightly eased. Please return to your normal scheduled programs.

2nd February 2021, 06:43 AM	#1928
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446	Originally Posted by rubygray Pointless trying to address anything when I have reached the Skeptics mingy quota of photo uploads. What a lame excuse. You deem it pointless because admitting your mistakes and inconsistencies would ruin what you believe you have built up in the credibility department as a "thorough researcher". Let's take one of your fantasy explanations that doesn't need any images at all. You try to match Tony's experience/description with Lloyde's experience to make them seem they both experienced the same thing at the same time. What follows is proof that what Tony experienced and what LLoyde experienced were NOT at the same time. Here is Tony's account of what he experienced: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/lin...mazing1001.htm Originally Posted by Tony Terronez "So I got about 100 yards or so past the heliport and then all of the sudden I heard this loud screeching sound that just came out of nowhere and it intensified. This huge WHOOSH!⁽¹⁾ And something made me look in my rearview mirror and by the time I looked up I saw the side of the Pentagon explode.⁽²⁾ "I was stunned. It was just so surreal, like something out of a movie, like `Die Hard.' The side of a building just exploded! As the fireball got higher and higher, you saw this debris go up in the air.⁽³⁾ I'm watching this in my rearview mirror, and then I thought, `Oh my God, there's debris coming toward me!' So my reaction was, I ducked into my passenger seat⁽⁴⁾ and I heard the pitter-patter of pebbles and concrete bouncing off my car.⁽⁵⁾ And the next thing you know, I heard this big crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to look but everything was fine.⁽⁶⁾ Now look at the numbered descriptions in red above above. (1)The "woosh" Tony heard was the plane flying behind him over the highway. This occurred at the same time the plane crossed over the highway for Lloyde. Immediately after that "woosh"/plane flying over, Lloyde had the light pole smash through his window. This is when Tony SHOULD have heard the "big crash/shattered glass" had it been from Lloyde's car. That's not the case though is it? After the plane flying over the highway, which both men experienced at the same time, Tony experienced MULTIPLE events happen before the "big crash/shattered glass" event he described. Tony described (2)Pentagon exploding, (3)Debris going into the air, (4)ducked into his seat, and (5)heard pitter-patter of debris. THEN Tony heard the (6)"crash/shattering of glass". This shows that you thinking Tony and Lloyde experienced the same "light pole through the window event" is completely wrong. It's impossible. Below is just more proof of your made up fanatsy. Explain why Tony never mentions the pole in Llyode's windshield. Why does he say "something" went through Lloyde's windshield instead of saying there was a pole sticking out of it? I'll tell you why. It was because it was a different car. Right next to him. In the northbound lane, Mot Lloyde's car. Originally Posted by Tony Terronez But when I looked to the car next to me I realized that something went through (the driver's) rear windshield and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something went through it. "I put the car in park -- it's amazing how instinct takes over because I will never know how it is I kept my foot on the brake when I ducked at the same time. I should have rammed right into the guy in front of me. I got out of the car and the guy in front of me, he and I just looked at each other. It seemed like everybody who was on the road got out of their cars and just looked in disbelief as the fireball just kept getting bigger and bigger. My jaw was dropped, his jaw was dropped, and then, at that point, something about trying to make sure people were OK overtook me and I started going around to the people in the other cars to see if they were all right. "I and the guy in front of me went to the car next to me and asked the driver if he was all right and if he was OK to drive. He was in shock, you could tell. He just kept looking straight ahead. He didn't even look back, he was so fixated on looking north. He didn't want to look south at the Pentagon. And it took a couple of times for me and the other guy to say, `Can you drive? Hello? Are you OK? Are you OK?' And he said, `Yeah, I think I can drive.' We asked him again, `Can you drive?' and that time he was more sure and said, `Yes, yes, I can drive.' Then both I and the guy in front of me looked at his rear windshield and saw what was about a four-inch hole in it and the rest of the window was shattered as if someone took a baseball bat to it.
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446

2nd February 2021, 06:51 AM	#1929
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446	Originally Posted by rubygray The pole was only about 12 feet long, and extended only as far as the front of the hood. Tell us again way Tony Terronez never mentions this pole and says that "something" went through the windshield he was looking at? Was he blind? Maybe Tony didn't know how to describe the 12' pole sticking out of Lloyde's windshield and the only the word he could come up with was "something".
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446

2nd February 2021, 07:03 AM	#1930
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446	Originally Posted by Axxman300 I guess I'm lost. Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass: [img][/img] As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field. [img][/img] Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing. Also, there is no way that Ruby's fantasy tow truck/trailer would have fit between the front of Lloyde's cab and the guardrail of the bridge in order to unload it at that angle and location.
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446

2nd February 2021, 07:10 AM	#1931
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446	Originally Posted by rubygray Pointless trying to address anything when I have reached the Skeptics mingy quota of photo uploads. You failed to address this gem of yours discussed below. How did Lloyde, in your fantasy world, get to the location between the southwest and southeast parts of the cloverleaf, south of the sign (Point 2 in red)? You never talk about or explain that yet you say he's there. Originally Posted by Gamolon Oh boy, do you have some MAJOR problems with your fantasy. Let's take a look. Below is an image in which you point out Lloyd who supposedly has been banished to the center of the bridge. This is at 9:43:30am per the image below. Below is the larger image which show where the location of the above frames were taken and at what time. The part in the box in the image below matches the above frames. Notice the vehicles entering the southbound lanes from the southeast part of cloverleaf on the right side of the image. 1. Based on the two images above and your own convoluted ramblings, Lloyd is NOT at the center of the bridge like you claim in the first image. He is south of the exit sign which puts him where the red circle is in the image below. 2. How did Lloyd get from the cemetery wall to his location south the exit sign? You have him falling down under the pole as he removed it from his car at 9:42:46am and then south of the exit sign at 9:43:30am. That's 44 seconds. 3. Based on the above, you have Lloyd being transported from the cemetery wall at 9:42:46am to the point south of the exit sign at 9:43:30am. From there you have him magically move from south of the sign to 50 yards north of where his cab will be so the brown Jeep can pick him up in the northbound lanes at 9:48:00am. Then the brown Jeep has to loop around via the cloverleaf and deposit him in front of his cab in the southbound lanes. Below is an image of your rendition of Lloyd's travels. Point 1 at cemetery wall to Point 2 south of sign. Then from Point 2 to Point 3 north of where his cab will eventually be (how he got there, nobody knows). Then via brown Jeep, from Point 3 to Point 4.
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446

15th February 2021, 08:57 AM	#1932
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446	Originally Posted by rubygray Lloyde was chosen with the complicity of his cab firm, as proven by the two fares he was assigned in Rosslyn that set him up to be in the right place at the right time, and by the presence of an identical, undamaged Capitol Cab sitting in place on the bridge for the first 6 minutes until Lloyde's cab was relocated there for the photo opportunity. He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken. Hne was fired at with military planning, precision and technology, as is proven by the pole taken from the windshield which was no part of a lightpole, and Lloyde's proven location at that time, which was 400 yards north of the alleged flightpath of the plane. Let me get this straight. You think the perps PLANNED things this way?! Is this how the planning meeting went? Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?" Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir." Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?" Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon." Boss Perp: "No?" Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it. Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?" Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off." Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?" Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane." Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over? Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion." Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon." Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke." Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..." Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!" Boss Perp: "There is?" Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. " Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?" Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead." Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?" Peon Perp: "We want to make sure." Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..." Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more." Boss Perp: "More?!" Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable." Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?" Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory." Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?" Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path." Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!" Peon Perp: "Nope!" Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!" Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!" Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..." Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!" Boss Perp: "..." Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though." Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..." Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT... Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?" Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?" Boss Perp: scratches head Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it." Boss Perp: sigh "I need a drink..."
Gamolon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,446

15th February 2021, 01:26 PM	#1933
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,902	I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C. The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows. I know. Crazy.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

15th February 2021, 03:55 PM	#1934
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,445	Originally Posted by Gamolon Let me get this straight. You think the perps PLANNED things this way?! Is this how the planning meeting went? Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?" Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir." Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?" Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon." Boss Perp: "No?" Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it. Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?" Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off." Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?" Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane." Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over? Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion." Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon." Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke." Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..." Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!" Boss Perp: "There is?" Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. " Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?" Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead." Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?" Peon Perp: "We want to make sure." Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..." Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more." Boss Perp: "More?!" Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable." Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?" Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory." Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?" Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path." Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!" Peon Perp: "Nope!" Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!" Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!" Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..." Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!" Boss Perp: "..." Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though." Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..." Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT... Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?" Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?" Boss Perp: scratches head Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it." Boss Perp: sigh "I need a drink..." You forgot about arranging the traffic flow so that Lloyd's cab and all the support infrastructure arrives at the right location at the exact time needed to pull the whole trick off!
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

18th February 2021, 06:34 AM	#1935
bknight Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,359	Originally Posted by rubygray <snip unsupported BS> He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken. <snip unsupported BS> You have yet to prove by means of images that may be examined to prove your allegation that this event occurred.

18th February 2021, 12:00 PM	#1936
Fonebone persona non grata Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 652	Originally Posted by Axxman300 I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C. The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows. I know. Crazy. Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
	__________________ Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw

18th February 2021, 07:32 PM	#1937
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,902	Originally Posted by Fonebone Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring? Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed? Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11? Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

19th February 2021, 02:36 PM	#1938
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,683	Originally Posted by Axxman300 I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C. The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows. I know. Crazy. Originally Posted by Fonebone Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

19th February 2021, 11:15 PM	#1939
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,902	Originally Posted by turingtest Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling. It's like this... Nazi Party: OMG, the Jewish Communists burned down our beloved Reichstag. We must consolidate power under the Nazi Party, with Hitler as our Fuhrer to protect the Fatherland. German People (who were raised in an antisemitic society): Yes! Heil Hitler! Bush Administration: Al Qaeda has attacked us. They could attack us again. We think Iraq will help them with WMDs. We need to invade Iraq to take Saddam out! Americans (who had 10 years of living with a half-finished Desert Storm followed by our planes being shot at over the No-Fly Zone and pretty much wanted to kick Arab ass after 911 anyway): Great, you do that! We'll go shopping for the next 20 years! 'Muerica! The truth is pretty ugly on its own, folks.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

20th February 2021, 12:08 PM	#1940
Fonebone persona non grata Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 652	the forum is not displaying my posts correctly
	__________________ Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw Last edited by Fonebone; 20th February 2021 at 12:11 PM.

20th February 2021, 12:13 PM	#1941
Fonebone persona non grata Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 652	Axxman300 > Quote: Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring? Fonebone Quote: Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed? Quote: Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11? Quote: Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi. Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey
	__________________ Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw

20th February 2021, 12:45 PM	#1942
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,902	Originally Posted by Fonebone Axxman300 > Fonebone Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey ...And? Where is your proof 9-11 was an inside job? And people who quote Nazis assassinate themselves.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

20th February 2021, 12:47 PM	#1943
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 25,838	Originally Posted by Fonebone the forum is not displaying my posts correctly It is a conspiracy...
	__________________ "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232

22nd February 2021, 08:11 AM	#1944
bknight Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,359	Originally Posted by beachnut It is a conspiracy... I wished I would have thought of that.

6th March 2021, 08:59 AM	#1945
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,075	Sigh.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

6th March 2021, 12:59 PM	#1946
Oystein Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17,001	Originally Posted by Gravy Sigh. Aww come on, you needed 17,073 posts yourself to get to that point!
	__________________ Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)

6th March 2021, 06:32 PM	#1947
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,075	Hey, lookit you with 17,001!
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

6th March 2021, 09:01 PM	#1948
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 395	Originally Posted by beachnut It is a conspiracy... That's what they want you to think. I find that random formatting helps.
	Last edited by The Common Potato; 6th March 2021 at 09:30 PM.

6th March 2021, 09:28 PM	#1949
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 395	Originally Posted by Oystein Aww come on, you needed 17,073 posts yourself to get to that point! Fake news. It's way more than 17,073. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jql9qphj9l...43723.jpg?dl=0

6th March 2021, 09:38 PM	#1950
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 395	Oystein, on the other other hand. Well, I'd vote for Oystein - probably several times. Oystein tells the troothf. https://www.dropbox.com/s/utozltmygn...44649.jpg?dl=0