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Tags cit , craig ranke , lloyd england

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Old 1st February 2021, 02:28 AM   #1921
Oystein
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
...

You blokes are just as bad, ..., you also believe he lied about his location and about the identity of the pole in his cab.

...
Ruby, can you provide QUOTES by at least two of us "blokes" that show they believe he LIED, as opposed to being merely mistaken? "Lie" implies not inly that a statement is wrong, but also a) that the speaker knows it's wrong and b) utters it with an intention to deceive.

Alternatively, you could retract the accusation against us blokes and apologize.

Failing to do either shall reveal that YOU are the liar here, as it shows you must know no debunker here ever implied Lloyd lied, and that you made this up with an intention to deceive (for this ain't jokes nor Entertainment).
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Old 1st February 2021, 03:54 AM   #1922
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
They claim we must respect Lloyde's testimony and his cab as witnesses to the truth of what happened on 9/11, then disrespect him majorly by condescendingly allowing that he was "confused" or "forgetful" about his location when the plane flew across the road in front of him, and he saw it for only a split second. They are effectively accusing him of being a likeable liar.
To lie is to give false information intentionally, with intent to deceive. Being wrong is not lying. Lloyde was not lying; he was convinced he was right, except, he wasn't.

Stop making accusations like that. Also what Oystein said.
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Old 1st February 2021, 01:02 PM   #1923
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Inserted ruby quoute
Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
I'm sorry but that video doesn't show the cab is not diagonal to the lanes.
Show show me where the cab is positioned NOT diagonal to the lanes. That is your contention. Ms. Davis is not a credible witness.

ETA:
Quote:
As you can see from the video screenshot, when it first came to rest, the cab was not diagonally across the road.
It was parallel with the concrete divider.
The pole was only about 12 feet long, and extended only as far as the front of the hood.
The pole also was in line with the highway, facing South away from oncoming traffic. Not very noticeable from that angle at all.
There were 3 lanes here beneath the overhead sign. Plenty of room to drive past.
After all, both Steve Riskus in his red sedan, and the Silent Stranger in the White Van, drove past Lloyde. The towtruck and trailer also had plenty of room to drive north by side him, and do U-turn behind him.
The diagonal cab was an artifice dreamed up by whomever designed the bridge-cab-pole scene.
The decoy cab which was posed there from 9:37 - 9:44 was skewed across the road, as can be seen in the same video shot from the triage site opposite the heliport, and also in the video shot from the bridge. Photos even show skid marks curving towards the cab's wheels.
When Lloyde's cab was relocated there, it was carefully placed in the same diagonal configuration.
Jerri Davis may or may not have have taken any notice of the cab.
But she DID mention that "ALL THIS STUFF WAS ON THE ROAD".

As Lloyde said,
"Glass was everywhere,"
and he had to swerve to miss the OTHER piece of pole on the road.

Unfortunately Craig never thought to ask her more details about the man she saw who was trying to flag her down. Was he black? Wearing bike leathers, a light blue cap and shirt? Did she see a Capitol Cab? What age would the guy have been? Could she recognise him from a photo lineup?
from post #1911.

Last edited by bknight; 1st February 2021 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Inserted ruby quote
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Old 1st February 2021, 01:34 PM   #1924
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
To lie is to give false information intentionally, with intent to deceive. Being wrong is not lying. Lloyde was not lying; he was convinced he was right, except, he wasn't.

Stop making accusations like that. Also what Oystein said.
I don't have the percentage breakdown, but it seems that half of the Titanic's survivors saw the ship break while the others did not. We know the ship broke apart on the surface. I can't think of a better example of hundreds of people in the same situation seeing the same thing and interpreting it differently than what happened in reality.

That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant.
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Old 1st February 2021, 01:52 PM   #1925
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant.
Or "work from the right end of the argument" AKA don't start with the conclusion oR from the middle of the reasoning.

Just as all the "no video" and "wrong flight path" arguments CANNOT falsify the "wreckage and remains were inside Pentagon".

Or the Twin Towers equivalent where the starting point is "the physics shows that there was no need for help from Explosive of Incendiary CD"....

And the generic issue is the long established habit of us generous helpful debunkers accepting "Reversed Burden of DISproof" - we don't demand that truthers "prove" their claims. They most often cannot even define their claim let alone prove it. So we try to debunk everything AND accept the handicap of the false framing of claim set by the truthers...

OK [/EndRant] 14 years of ongoing frustration slightly eased. Please return to your normal scheduled programs.
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Old 1st February 2021, 08:48 PM   #1926
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FDR proves a conspiracy theory is wrong, again

Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
...
He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken. ...
LOL, this is BS. More proof you have no clue what happen on 9/11.

The best part, your fantasy version of 9/11 is debunked by FDR, Radar, and DNA.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 01:43 AM   #1927
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I guess I'm lost.

Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass:

[IMG][/IMG]

As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field.

[IMG][/IMG]

Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 06:43 AM   #1928
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
Pointless trying to address anything when I have reached the Skeptics mingy quota of photo uploads.
What a lame excuse. You deem it pointless because admitting your mistakes and inconsistencies would ruin what you believe you have built up in the credibility department as a "thorough researcher".

Let's take one of your fantasy explanations that doesn't need any images at all. You try to match Tony's experience/description with Lloyde's experience to make them seem they both experienced the same thing at the same time. What follows is proof that what Tony experienced and what LLoyde experienced were NOT at the same time.

Here is Tony's account of what he experienced:
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/lin...mazing1001.htm
Originally Posted by Tony Terronez
"So I got about 100 yards or so past the heliport and then all of the sudden I heard this loud screeching sound that just came out of nowhere and it intensified. This huge WHOOSH!(1) And something made me look in my rearview mirror and by the time I looked up I saw the side of the Pentagon explode.(2)

"I was stunned. It was just so surreal, like something out of a movie, like `Die Hard.' The side of a building just exploded! As the fireball got higher and higher, you saw this debris go up in the air.(3) I'm watching this in my rearview mirror, and then I thought, `Oh my God, there's debris coming toward me!' So my reaction was, I ducked into my passenger seat(4) and I heard the pitter-patter of pebbles and concrete bouncing off my car.(5) And the next thing you know, I heard this big crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to look but everything was fine.(6)
Now look at the numbered descriptions in red above above.
(1)The "woosh" Tony heard was the plane flying behind him over the highway. This occurred at the same time the plane crossed over the highway for Lloyde. Immediately after that "woosh"/plane flying over, Lloyde had the light pole smash through his window. This is when Tony SHOULD have heard the "big crash/shattered glass" had it been from Lloyde's car.

That's not the case though is it?

After the plane flying over the highway, which both men experienced at the same time, Tony experienced MULTIPLE events happen before the "big crash/shattered glass" event he described. Tony described (2)Pentagon exploding, (3)Debris going into the air, (4)ducked into his seat, and (5)heard pitter-patter of debris. THEN Tony heard the (6)"crash/shattering of glass".

This shows that you thinking Tony and Lloyde experienced the same "light pole through the window event" is completely wrong. It's impossible.

Below is just more proof of your made up fanatsy. Explain why Tony never mentions the pole in Llyode's windshield. Why does he say "something" went through Lloyde's windshield instead of saying there was a pole sticking out of it? I'll tell you why. It was because it was a different car. Right next to him. In the northbound lane, Mot Lloyde's car.
Originally Posted by Tony Terronez
But when I looked to the car next to me I realized that something went through (the driver's) rear windshield and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something went through it.

"I put the car in park -- it's amazing how instinct takes over because I will never know how it is I kept my foot on the brake when I ducked at the same time. I should have rammed right into the guy in front of me. I got out of the car and the guy in front of me, he and I just looked at each other. It seemed like everybody who was on the road got out of their cars and just looked in disbelief as the fireball just kept getting bigger and bigger. My jaw was dropped, his jaw was dropped, and then, at that point, something about trying to make sure people were OK overtook me and I started going around to the people in the other cars to see if they were all right.

"I and the guy in front of me went to the car next to me and asked the driver if he was all right and if he was OK to drive. He was in shock, you could tell. He just kept looking straight ahead. He didn't even look back, he was so fixated on looking north. He didn't want to look south at the Pentagon. And it took a couple of times for me and the other guy to say, `Can you drive? Hello? Are you OK? Are you OK?' And he said, `Yeah, I think I can drive.' We asked him again, `Can you drive?' and that time he was more sure and said, `Yes, yes, I can drive.' Then both I and the guy in front of me looked at his rear windshield and saw what was about a four-inch hole in it and the rest of the window was shattered as if someone took a baseball bat to it.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 06:51 AM   #1929
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
The pole was only about 12 feet long, and extended only as far as the front of the hood.
Tell us again way Tony Terronez never mentions this pole and says that "something" went through the windshield he was looking at? Was he blind? Maybe Tony didn't know how to describe the 12' pole sticking out of Lloyde's windshield and the only the word he could come up with was "something".

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Old 2nd February 2021, 07:03 AM   #1930
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I guess I'm lost.

Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass:

https://i.imgur.com/arIHkws.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="https://i.imgur.com/...rIHkws.jpg</a>

As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field.

https://i.imgur.com/0adQNKm.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="https://i.imgur.com/...adQNKm.jpg</a>

Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing.
Also, there is no way that Ruby's fantasy tow truck/trailer would have fit between the front of Lloyde's cab and the guardrail of the bridge in order to unload it at that angle and location.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 07:10 AM   #1931
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
Pointless trying to address anything when I have reached the Skeptics mingy quota of photo uploads.
You failed to address this gem of yours discussed below. How did Lloyde, in your fantasy world, get to the location between the southwest and southeast parts of the cloverleaf, south of the sign (Point 2 in red)? You never talk about or explain that yet you say he's there.
Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
Oh boy, do you have some MAJOR problems with your fantasy. Let's take a look.

Below is an image in which you point out Lloyd who supposedly has been banished to the center of the bridge. This is at 9:43:30am per the image below.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b941db725e.jpg

Below is the larger image which show where the location of the above frames were taken and at what time. The part in the box in the image below matches the above frames. Notice the vehicles entering the southbound lanes from the southeast part of cloverleaf on the right side of the image.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b9562eaab5.jpg

1. Based on the two images above and your own convoluted ramblings, Lloyd is NOT at the center of the bridge like you claim in the first image. He is south of the exit sign which puts him where the red circle is in the image below.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b9818332ac.png

2. How did Lloyd get from the cemetery wall to his location south the exit sign? You have him falling down under the pole as he removed it from his car at 9:42:46am and then south of the exit sign at 9:43:30am. That's 44 seconds.

3. Based on the above, you have Lloyd being transported from the cemetery wall at 9:42:46am to the point south of the exit sign at 9:43:30am. From there you have him magically move from south of the sign to 50 yards north of where his cab will be so the brown Jeep can pick him up in the northbound lanes at 9:48:00am. Then the brown Jeep has to loop around via the cloverleaf and deposit him in front of his cab in the southbound lanes.

Below is an image of your rendition of Lloyd's travels. Point 1 at cemetery wall to Point 2 south of sign. Then from Point 2 to Point 3 north of where his cab will eventually be (how he got there, nobody knows). Then via brown Jeep, from Point 3 to Point 4.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b9e3f64cb8.jpg
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Old 15th February 2021, 08:57 AM   #1932
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
Lloyde was chosen with the complicity of his cab firm, as proven by the two fares he was assigned in Rosslyn that set him up to be in the right place at the right time, and by the presence of an identical, undamaged Capitol Cab sitting in place on the bridge for the first 6 minutes until Lloyde's cab was relocated there for the photo opportunity.

He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken.

Hne was fired at with military planning, precision and technology, as is proven by the pole taken from the windshield which was no part of a lightpole, and Lloyde's proven location at that time, which was 400 yards north of the alleged flightpath of the plane.
Let me get this straight.

You think the perps PLANNED things this way?!

Is this how the planning meeting went?

Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?"
Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir."
Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?"
Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon."
Boss Perp: "No?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it.
Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?"
Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off."
Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?"
Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane."
Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over?
Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion."
Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon."
Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke."
Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!"
Boss Perp: "There is?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. "
Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?"
Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead."
Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?"
Peon Perp: "We want to make sure."
Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more."
Boss Perp: "More?!"
Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable."
Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory."
Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?"
Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path."
Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!"
Peon Perp: "Nope!"
Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!"
Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!"
Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!"
Boss Perp: "..."
Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though."
Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..."
Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT...
Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?"
Boss Perp: *scratches head*
Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it."
Boss Perp: *sigh* "I need a drink..."
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Old 15th February 2021, 01:26 PM   #1933
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I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.

The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows.

I know. Crazy.
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Old 15th February 2021, 03:55 PM   #1934
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
Let me get this straight.

You think the perps PLANNED things this way?!

Is this how the planning meeting went?

Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?"
Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir."
Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?"
Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon."
Boss Perp: "No?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it.
Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?"
Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off."
Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?"
Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane."
Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over?
Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion."
Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon."
Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke."
Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!"
Boss Perp: "There is?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. "
Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?"
Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead."
Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?"
Peon Perp: "We want to make sure."
Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more."
Boss Perp: "More?!"
Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable."
Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?"
Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory."
Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?"
Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path."
Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!"
Peon Perp: "Nope!"
Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!"
Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!"
Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..."
Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!"
Boss Perp: "..."
Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though."
Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..."
Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT...
Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?"
Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?"
Boss Perp: *scratches head*
Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it."
Boss Perp: *sigh* "I need a drink..."
You forgot about arranging the traffic flow so that Lloyd's cab and all the support infrastructure arrives at the right location at the exact time needed to pull the whole trick off!
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Old 18th February 2021, 06:34 AM   #1935
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Originally Posted by rubygray View Post
<snip unsupported BS>

He was targeted by the perpetrators, as is proven by the secondment of Donald Rumsfeld's own personal bodyguard, who collected, transported, supervised and guarded Lloyde England on the bridge during the few minutes that the incriminating official photos were taken.

<snip unsupported BS>
You have yet to prove by means of images that may be examined to prove your allegation that this event occurred.
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Old 18th February 2021, 12:00 PM   #1936
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.

The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows.

I know. Crazy.
Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals
and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history.



https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring


[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.
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Old 18th February 2021, 07:32 PM   #1937
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals
and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history.



https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring


[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.

Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring?

Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed?


Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11?

Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi.
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Old 19th February 2021, 02:36 PM   #1938
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.

The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows.

I know. Crazy.
Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals
and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history.



https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring


[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.
Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling.
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Old 19th February 2021, 11:15 PM   #1939
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling.
It's like this...

Nazi Party: OMG, the Jewish Communists burned down our beloved Reichstag. We must consolidate power under the Nazi Party, with Hitler as our Fuhrer to protect the Fatherland.

German People (who were raised in an antisemitic society): Yes! Heil Hitler!

Bush Administration: Al Qaeda has attacked us. They could attack us again. We think Iraq will help them with WMDs. We need to invade Iraq to take Saddam out!

Americans (who had 10 years of living with a half-finished Desert Storm followed by our planes being shot at over the No-Fly Zone and pretty much wanted to kick Arab ass after 911 anyway): Great, you do that! We'll go shopping for the next 20 years! 'Muerica!

The truth is pretty ugly on its own, folks.
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Old 20th February 2021, 12:08 PM   #1940
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the forum is not displaying my posts correctly
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Last edited by Fonebone; 20th February 2021 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 20th February 2021, 12:13 PM   #1941
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Axxman300 >
Quote:
Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring?
Fonebone


Quote:
Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed?
Quote:
Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11?
Quote:
Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi.

Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring


[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.



Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey
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Old 20th February 2021, 12:45 PM   #1942
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Axxman300 >
Fonebone

Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring


[excerpt]
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce
the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country.


Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey
...And?

Where is your proof 9-11 was an inside job?

And people who quote Nazis assassinate themselves.
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Old 20th February 2021, 12:47 PM   #1943
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
the forum is not displaying my posts correctly
It is a conspiracy...
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Old 22nd February 2021, 08:11 AM   #1944
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
It is a conspiracy...
I wished I would have thought of that.
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Old 6th March 2021, 08:59 AM   #1945
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Sigh.
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Old 6th March 2021, 12:59 PM   #1946
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Sigh.
Aww come on, you needed 17,073 posts yourself to get to that point!
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Old 6th March 2021, 06:32 PM   #1947
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Hey, lookit you with 17,001!
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Old 6th March 2021, 09:01 PM   #1948
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
It is a conspiracy...
That's what they want you to think.

I find that random formatting helps.

Last edited by The Common Potato; 6th March 2021 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 6th March 2021, 09:28 PM   #1949
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Aww come on, you needed 17,073 posts yourself to get to that point!
Fake news. It's way more than 17,073.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jql9qphj9l...43723.jpg?dl=0
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Old 6th March 2021, 09:38 PM   #1950
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Oystein, on the other other hand. Well, I'd vote for Oystein - probably several times. Oystein tells the troothf.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utozltmygn...44649.jpg?dl=0
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Old 11th March 2021, 12:53 PM   #1951
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Sigh.
Off topic but you are my only hope. Do you know the identity of the "engineer" who told the fire chiefs by noon that WTC 7 was doomed to collapse "in about five or six hours"?
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Old 11th March 2021, 05:40 PM   #1952
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Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
Oystein, on the other other hand. Well, I'd vote for Oystein - probably several times. Oystein tells the troothf.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utozltmygn...44649.jpg?dl=0
My memory is suffering from anno domini effects - too big a gap between "[19]41" and "[20]21"

BUT who was the resident "troll of the day" who thought it was funny to coin the pun "beedunker"....

AND four if my memory is correct DEbunkers promptly appreciated the joke and adopted BEEdunker avatars. Oystein, DGM and I think two others....

and for bonus points WHEN was it???
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Old 12th March 2021, 06:55 AM   #1953
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
...
BUT who was the resident "troll of the day" who thought it was funny to coin the pun "beedunker"....
Ergo, right?

Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
AND four if my memory is correct DEbunkers promptly appreciated the joke and adopted BEEdunker avatars. Oystein, DGM and I think two others....

and for bonus points WHEN was it???
2012, 2013ish I'd say.
Tried the Search function?

ETA:
Ooofffff!!! Goes back to November 2010! (I don't know though when we began to change our avatars, that could well have been more than a year later)
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Old 12th March 2021, 07:43 AM   #1954
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Before my time. I started reading IntSkep (I prefer JREF ) between Christmas and New Year 2015/16. I did seek out and locate the 4' 3" rebar thread a while ago, though.
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Old 12th March 2021, 09:17 AM   #1955
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Off topic but you are my only hope. Do you know the identity of the "engineer" who told the fire chiefs by noon that WTC 7 was doomed to collapse "in about five or six hours"?
Sorry, I'm not aware of that claim.
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Old 12th March 2021, 09:36 AM   #1956
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Sorry, I'm not aware of that claim.
This post may be informative. MicahJava is arguing that Peter Hayden's recollection after the fact must be precisely correct, an argument that contradicts most of what's understood about the process of memory and recollection; that the first photographic evidence for fires in WTC7 was the first evidence of any kind for fires in WTC7, visual inspection being apparently not a thing; and that therefore there were no large fires and possibly no fires at all at any time before this photographic evidence was obtained. The absence of any correlation for Hayden's recollection is then taken as evidence that there is a cover-up rather than simply that Hayden has conflated or misremembered one or more events of the day, and feels that this is a suitable Gotcha! with which to taunt anyone with a sane view of events.

Nothing's really changed since you were here last but the level of enthusiasm.

Dave
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Old 12th March 2021, 09:42 AM   #1957
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
This post may be informative. MicahJava is arguing that Peter Hayden's recollection after the fact must be precisely correct, an argument that contradicts most of what's understood about the process of memory and recollection; that the first photographic evidence for fires in WTC7 was the first evidence of any kind for fires in WTC7, visual inspection being apparently not a thing; and that therefore there were no large fires and possibly no fires at all at any time before this photographic evidence was obtained. The absence of any correlation for Hayden's recollection is then taken as evidence that there is a cover-up rather than simply that Hayden has conflated or misremembered one or more events of the day, and feels that this is a suitable Gotcha! with which to taunt anyone with a sane view of events.

Nothing's really changed since you were here last but the level of enthusiasm.

Dave
Good memory or search pattern for you. But alas as you indicate MJ is barking up a tree that does not exist in the real world. He fantasizes too much in his CT attempts.
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Old 12th March 2021, 11:06 AM   #1958
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
This post may be informative. MicahJava is arguing that Peter Hayden's recollection after the fact must be precisely correct, an argument that contradicts most of what's understood about the process of memory and recollection; that the first photographic evidence for fires in WTC7 was the first evidence of any kind for fires in WTC7, visual inspection being apparently not a thing; and that therefore there were no large fires and possibly no fires at all at any time before this photographic evidence was obtained. The absence of any correlation for Hayden's recollection is then taken as evidence that there is a cover-up rather than simply that Hayden has conflated or misremembered one or more events of the day, and feels that this is a suitable Gotcha! with which to taunt anyone with a sane view of events.

Nothing's really changed since you were here last but the level of enthusiasm.

Dave
Good to see you, Dave!
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Old 12th March 2021, 01:27 PM   #1959
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Good to see you, Dave!
You too, hope you're safe and well.

Dave
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Old 12th March 2021, 04:58 PM   #1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahJava
Off topic but you are my only hope. Do you know the identity of the "engineer" who told the fire chiefs by noon that WTC 7 was doomed to collapse "in about five or six hours"?
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Sorry, I'm not aware of that claim.
You may be thinking of FDNY Fire Captain and OEM Deputy Director Richard Rotanz: (http://162.243.41.32/entity.jsp?entity=richard_rotanz)

Quote:
(12:30 p.m.) September 11, 2001: Emergency Management Deputy Director Rotanz Sees Significant Damage inside World Trade Center Building 7Edit event

Richard Rotanz, the deputy director of New York’s Office of Emergency Management, assesses the state of World Trade Center Building 7 and sees significant damage inside the building. [BBC, 7/6/2008; BBC, 10/17/2008] WTC 7 was damaged by the debris when the North Tower of the WTC collapsed at 10:28 a.m. (see 10:28 a.m. September 11, 2001). [NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY, 11/2008, PP. 16] At around 12:30 p.m., according to the BBC, Rotanz and some other officials—whose identities are unstated—go into WTC 7 to see what condition the building is in. “At the time the building wasn’t safe, but we had to make an assessment just the same,” Rotanz will later tell the BBC. He will describe what he observes inside WTC 7, saying: “You could hear the building creak above us. You could hear things fall. You could hear the fire burning. You could see columns just hanging from the floors, gaping holes in the floors up above us.” He also sees “an elevator car that was blown out of its shaft” and is now “down the hall.” [BBC, 7/6/2008; BBC, 10/17/2008] The elevator car is “30 or 40 feet away from where the elevator shaft once was,” according to another account. [AEGIS INSURANCE SERVICES, INC. V. 7 WORLD TRADE CENTER COMPANY, LP, 12/4/2013 pdf file] Rotanz and those with him soon leave the building. “We didn’t spend that long” inside WTC 7, Rotanz will say. Rotanz has also observed significant damage to the exterior of WTC 7 (see (After 10:28 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [BBC, 10/17/2008] At around 2:30 p.m., senior firefighters will make the decision to abandon the possibility of fighting the fires in WTC 7 (see (2:00 p.m.-2:30 p.m.) September 11, 2001).
What a person might possibly hope to accomplish by rehashing memories of an almost 20 year old event is beyond me.
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