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#1921 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 17,001
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Ruby, can you provide QUOTES by at least two of us "blokes" that show they believe he LIED, as opposed to being merely mistaken? "Lie" implies not inly that a statement is wrong, but also a) that the speaker knows it's wrong and b) utters it with an intention to deceive.
Alternatively, you could retract the accusation against us blokes and apologize. Failing to do either shall reveal that YOU are the liar here, as it shows you must know no debunker here ever implied Lloyd lied, and that you made this up with an intention to deceive (for this ain't jokes nor Entertainment). |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#1922 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,641
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#1923 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,359
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#1924 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,902
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I don't have the percentage breakdown, but it seems that half of the Titanic's survivors saw the ship break while the others did not. We know the ship broke apart on the surface. I can't think of a better example of hundreds of people in the same situation seeing the same thing and interpreting it differently than what happened in reality.
That's why you always work with the physical evidence. In this case it's AA77 being recovered from inside the Pentagon. Whatever variation of the flight path is unimportant. |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#1925 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,562
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Or "work from the right end of the argument" AKA don't start with the conclusion oR from the middle of the reasoning.
Just as all the "no video" and "wrong flight path" arguments CANNOT falsify the "wreckage and remains were inside Pentagon". Or the Twin Towers equivalent where the starting point is "the physics shows that there was no need for help from Explosive of Incendiary CD".... And the generic issue is the long established habit of us generous helpful debunkers accepting "Reversed Burden of DISproof" - we don't demand that truthers "prove" their claims. They most often cannot even define their claim let alone prove it. So we try to debunk everything AND accept the handicap of the false framing of claim set by the truthers... OK [/EndRant] 14 years of ongoing frustration slightly eased. Please return to your normal scheduled programs. ![]() ![]() |
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#1926 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,838
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FDR proves a conspiracy theory is wrong, again
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
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#1927 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,902
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I guess I'm lost.
Here's Lloyde's taxi parked on the overpass: [IMG] ![]() As you can see, he was well within the flightpath's lightpole debris field. [IMG] ![]() Give me a break, he's standing right next to his cab. There is nothing to suggest that anything was staged here. Nothing. Not a single thing. |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#1928 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,446
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What a lame excuse. You deem it pointless because admitting your mistakes and inconsistencies would ruin what you believe you have built up in the credibility department as a "thorough researcher".
Let's take one of your fantasy explanations that doesn't need any images at all. You try to match Tony's experience/description with Lloyde's experience to make them seem they both experienced the same thing at the same time. What follows is proof that what Tony experienced and what LLoyde experienced were NOT at the same time. Here is Tony's account of what he experienced: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/lin...mazing1001.htm
Originally Posted by Tony Terronez
(1)The "woosh" Tony heard was the plane flying behind him over the highway. This occurred at the same time the plane crossed over the highway for Lloyde. Immediately after that "woosh"/plane flying over, Lloyde had the light pole smash through his window. This is when Tony SHOULD have heard the "big crash/shattered glass" had it been from Lloyde's car. That's not the case though is it? After the plane flying over the highway, which both men experienced at the same time, Tony experienced MULTIPLE events happen before the "big crash/shattered glass" event he described. Tony described (2)Pentagon exploding, (3)Debris going into the air, (4)ducked into his seat, and (5)heard pitter-patter of debris. THEN Tony heard the (6)"crash/shattering of glass". This shows that you thinking Tony and Lloyde experienced the same "light pole through the window event" is completely wrong. It's impossible. Below is just more proof of your made up fanatsy. Explain why Tony never mentions the pole in Llyode's windshield. Why does he say "something" went through Lloyde's windshield instead of saying there was a pole sticking out of it? I'll tell you why. It was because it was a different car. Right next to him. In the northbound lane, Mot Lloyde's car.
Originally Posted by Tony Terronez
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#1929 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,446
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Tell us again way Tony Terronez never mentions this pole and says that "something" went through the windshield he was looking at? Was he blind? Maybe Tony didn't know how to describe the 12' pole sticking out of Lloyde's windshield and the only the word he could come up with was "something".
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#1930 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,446
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#1931 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,446
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You failed to address this gem of yours discussed below. How did Lloyde, in your fantasy world, get to the location between the southwest and southeast parts of the cloverleaf, south of the sign (Point 2 in red)? You never talk about or explain that yet you say he's there.
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#1932 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,446
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Let me get this straight.
You think the perps PLANNED things this way?! Is this how the planning meeting went? Boss Perp: "So what are we doing at the Pentagon? What's the plan there? We're still flying a jet directly into it correct?" Peon Perp: "Ummm... We've actually altered the plan since we last spoke sir." Boss Perp: "Oh? Ok. What are we doing then?" Peon Perp: "We're not actually flying a jet into the Pentagon." Boss Perp: "No?" Peon Perp: "Nope. We're still using the jet, but we're planting explosives in the wall instead of flying a jet into it. Boss Perp: "Ok, so what's the jet for?" Peon Perp: "We'll fly it OVER the Pentagon at the same time the explosives go off." Boss Perp: "Fly it over? Why are we doing that instead of crashing it directly into the Pentagon?" Peon Perp: "We don't want to have to pay for destroying the plane." Boss Perp: "Right. I guess that makes sense. Aren't we worried that someone will see the plane fly over? Peon Perp: "Nope! Everyone will be focused on the explosion." Boss Perp: "What about the folks on the other side of the Pentagon." Peon Perp: "They'll be focused on the smoke." Boss Perp: "Right. Nice job. I guess we're ready to..." Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more!" Boss Perp: "There is?" Peon Perp: "Yup! We are going to involve as taxi driver on the highway. To make sure we have a witness in place where we are saying the jet flew over the highway. " Boss Perp: "A taxi cab driver?" Peon Perp: "Yes. We already worked with the taxi cab company and the driver we chose is being given fake fares in Rosslyn so he has to drive on the highway at the exact same time the plane flies overhead." Boss Perp: "Why do we need to plan for someone to see the jet? Won't there be other witnesses out and about that will see the jet?" Peon Perp: "We want to make sure." Boss Perp: "Right. Sounds like you have this figured out. Again, nice..." Peon Perp: "WAIT! There's more." Boss Perp: "More?!" Peon Perp: "Yup! The taxi cab driver I mentioned? We're going to shoot a 4" metal pole through his front windshield and say that the plane flying over the highway knocked over a light pole. It's just to add flavor to the story. Makes it more believeable." Boss Perp: "You're not using an actual light pole?" Peon Perp: "Nope. VDOT wouldn't give us one. Something about "too much paperwork". So we have to use a scrap pole we have in our inventory." Boss Perp: "Ummm...Ok? I just remembered. Do we have the faked flight path ready?" Peon Perp: "Yes sir! All set. We've planned to place light poles on the ground to give credence that the jet took the flight path we are faking and knocked them over. The explosives will also match the damage pattern of the jet's trajectory when it "supposedly" impacts the Pentagon. Just a side note though. The jet will not actually fly along our faked flight path." Boss Perp: "Excellent! Wait... WHAT?! The faked flight path won't match the actual flight path?!" Peon Perp: "Nope!" Boss Perp: "WHY NOT?!" Peon Perp: "Clues sir. CLUES! This wouldn't be America if we didn't supply clues for conspiracy theorists to figure out! It keeps them happy. We'll just deny them though. All part of the plan! Keep the public guessing! It's an exciting time!" Boss Peon: "Well, if it's for America... I guess so... Keep me posted on how this turns out. I'll be in my off..." Peon Perp: "WAIT!! There's more!!!" Boss Perp: "..." Peon Perp: "Remember the taxi cab driver? We're going to shoot the metal pole through his windshield 400 yards north of our faked flight path. That way the pole will strike the cab where it is REALLY going to fly over the highway! Here's the best part! We're calling it "North of the Citgo! We named it that because there is a Citgo station right by the highway and the actual flight path will be north of it. Get it?! The conspiracy folks will eat it up! We'll just deny it though." Boss Perp: "This is getting complicated..." Peon Perp: "Right! Now, back to the taxi cab driver. This is the best part. Pay close attention. We're going to have our people pick the taxi cab driver up from where the metal pole struck his cab and then drug him. We'll load him into a vehicle and drive him the 400 yards south to were the faked flight path is supposed to be. While that's happeneing, we'll load his taxi cab onto a tow truck and flat traler from VDOT... Boss Perp: "Wait! VODT wouldn't give you a light pole, but they agreed to give you a tow truck and flat bed trailer?" Peon Perp: "Yup! We're going to give the tow truck and trailer back to VDOT when we're done. We couldn't give them back a busted lighpole. Again, "paperwork" remember?" Boss Perp: *scratches head* Peon Perp: "Anyways, we'll drop the taxi cab driver off near the faked flight path we won't actually be following and he'll just wander around until his damaged taxi cab can replace the taxi cab that had been holding the spot. Onced the damaged cab is in place, we'll pick the cab driver up from the north bound lanes and cirle around the cloverleafs to drop him off with it." Boss Perp: *sigh* "I need a drink..." |
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#1933 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,902
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I know this sounds crazy, but if I wanted to launch America into an unending war in the Middle East I'd get some Jihadists to hijack a few commercial jetliners, and have them crash into buildings in New York and Washington D.C.
The whole operation would take under thirty guys, counting the logistics folks. Not counting training the entire operation would take less then two hours to pull off. The hijackers are martyred so they can't talk allowing the logistics crew to fade into the shadows. I know. Crazy. |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#1934 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,445
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"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#1935 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,359
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#1936 |
persona non grata
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 652
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Crazy to the naive intellects and pompous shallow thinkers perhaps
but even the most feeble-minded commoner would understand what Goring reveals and marvel at his thought's accuracy and truthfulness throughout the World's recorded history. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. |
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Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw |
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#1937 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,902
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Who the hell quotes Hermann Göring? Okay, question: Which is more likely, the Nazis started the Reichstag Fire, or that they used the fire to justify their actions which followed? Since you're big on Nazis, how would Otto Skorzeny faked 9-11? Very telling that out of all the folks you decide to quote you went with a Nazi. |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#1938 |
Mistral, mistral wind...
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Embedded, reporting from Mississippi
Posts: 4,683
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Well, that's kind of evading the point of the post you're responding to, isn't it? If all you have to do is "tell them they are being attacked," and you were going to lie about it, then why wouldn't you still pick the easier lie? Your "theory" of the lie (or at least Ruby's) requires fakery on a level that would involve hundreds, if not thousands, of people to be in on it, with so many possibilities for failure and exposure that no sane conspirator would want any part of it. Wouldn't it be simpler to just, you know..."lie" by using as much truth as possible, and actually crash planes into the buildings? As I said, that's for Ruby's fantasy, I don't know what yours is; maybe you could elaborate as to how quoting Goring supports whatever you believe by saying what it is you believe, or whether you are buying what Ruby is selling.
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I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King |
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#1939 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,902
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It's like this...
Nazi Party: OMG, the Jewish Communists burned down our beloved Reichstag. We must consolidate power under the Nazi Party, with Hitler as our Fuhrer to protect the Fatherland. German People (who were raised in an antisemitic society): Yes! Heil Hitler! Bush Administration: Al Qaeda has attacked us. They could attack us again. We think Iraq will help them with WMDs. We need to invade Iraq to take Saddam out! Americans (who had 10 years of living with a half-finished Desert Storm followed by our planes being shot at over the No-Fly Zone and pretty much wanted to kick Arab ass after 911 anyway): Great, you do that! We'll go shopping for the next 20 years! 'Muerica! The truth is pretty ugly on its own, folks. ![]() |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#1940 |
persona non grata
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 652
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the forum is not displaying my posts correctly
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Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw |
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#1941 |
persona non grata
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 652
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Axxman300 >
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Fonebone < https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Goring [excerpt] Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. Axxman300 > thinly veiled character assassination with Nuttin & Honey |
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Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured; but, like the sun, only for a time. __Bovee Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light. __George Washington All great truths begin as blasphemies __Shaw |
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#1942 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 4,902
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#1943 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,838
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
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#1944 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,359
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#1945 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,075
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Sigh.
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#1946 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 17,001
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__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#1947 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,075
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Hey, lookit you with 17,001!
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#1948 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 395
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#1949 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 395
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#1950 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 395
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Oystein, on the other other hand. Well, I'd vote for Oystein - probably several times. Oystein tells the troothf.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utozltmygn...44649.jpg?dl=0 |
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