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Old 18th February 2021, 09:21 AM   #3041
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
If you are knowledgeable enough to solve the problems that the script-monkeys can solve yourself, the trick is getting past the script-monkeys to somebody that actually can solve your problem. With some companies, that is next to impossible.
I find talking past the script monkey generally works. They escalate the call quickly.

Another useful tactic is to give them a certain mobile number and tell them to check their internal directory. This is one reason I'm an inveterate picker-up of business cards at events, it never hurts to have a CEO's mobile number, I learned that twenty years ago.
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Old 18th February 2021, 10:23 AM   #3042
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Yes. And given Eir's customer dissatisfaction rates it shows.


Generally I agree. I never did phone support in my twenty plus tears years in IT. But I've dealt with lots of people who did (one of whom finds the 999 control centre a relaxing change).
But I've got to experience to say to the script monkey that A, B, C, D, E, F and G don;t work, therefore the problem is I, J or K which are down to you. So escalate them beyond the appeasement level, and right now. I want to talk to the person who can fix the problem you have caused. And this morning I did that by talking over the script monkey until he escalated it, and repeated this until I spoke to person#4 who could actually see the relevant system and fixed the problem.

…snip…
Sounds like it isn’t a company that has outsourced its CS. With those companies there is usually literally and honestly nowhere or no one they can escalate anything to.
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Old 18th February 2021, 11:22 AM   #3043
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
"Actually getting it working is not our problem".
Back in my day most of the developers reckoned that their responsibility ended as soon as the code compiled. Let the users see if it did what was expected.
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Old 18th February 2021, 11:28 AM   #3044
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*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
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Old 18th February 2021, 11:34 AM   #3045
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
"I want all the groceries in one bag, but the bag shouldn't be heavy."
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Old 18th February 2021, 12:44 PM   #3046
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
That's definitely doable. If a bigger monitor is in the budget.
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Old 18th February 2021, 03:36 PM   #3047
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A colleague just had one of those nightmare calls from someone who refused to follow established procedure, didn't understand instructions, and basically talked over her the whole time. She ended up terminating the call due to inappropriate language.

A developer, of course.
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Last edited by arthwollipot; 18th February 2021 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 18th February 2021, 03:42 PM   #3048
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
Does she own a drive-in theatre? Or a Cinemax?

Darn, ninja'd.
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Old 18th February 2021, 03:48 PM   #3049
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I find talking past the script monkey generally works. They escalate the call quickly.

Another useful tactic is to give them a certain mobile number and tell them to check their internal directory. This is one reason I'm an inveterate picker-up of business cards at events, it never hurts to have a CEO's mobile number, I learned that twenty years ago.
I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.
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Old 18th February 2021, 03:52 PM   #3050
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.
That's what I do. I'm often astonished how quick my router switches off and on, if they say switch it off and wait for 10 seconds (for the electricity to drain away...) mine is back on and ready at 10.1 seconds.
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Old 18th February 2021, 03:53 PM   #3051
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.
We're not allowed to give out direct contact details for support staff. First, if everything is channelled through the Service Desk it's logged and recorded for transparency and accountability. Second, it avoids the "run over by a bus" problem where the only person who knows the details of the issue is suddenly unavailable and you have to start over.
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Old 18th February 2021, 06:16 PM   #3052
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We're not allowed to give out direct contact details for support staff. First, if everything is channelled through the Service Desk it's logged and recorded for transparency and accountability. Second, it avoids the "run over by a bus" problem where the only person who knows the details of the issue is suddenly unavailable and you have to start over.
I know. No problem with proper call logging. In fact, I insist on it. But when a caller says "I'm L2 support for this technology and have already been through these tests, etc. May I talk to an L2 tech, please?", it is a waste of time for both ends having to go through ALL the "turn it off and on" steps again just to tick their boxes.

In many cases, I have been perfectly satisfied with an L1 response like: "Ah I see you seem to understand the tech. This is probably due to ongoing issue XXX. We are working on that currently, with an estimate of YYY-time delay. If it doesn't clear after YYY-time, call back and we will take it from there. Otherwise, how can I help?"
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Old 18th February 2021, 06:23 PM   #3053
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I know. No problem with proper call logging. In fact, I insist on it. But when a caller says "I'm L2 support for this technology and have already been through these tests, etc. May I talk to an L2 tech, please?", it is a waste of time for both ends having to go through ALL the "turn it off and on" steps again just to tick their boxes.

In many cases, I have been perfectly satisfied with an L1 response like: "Ah I see you seem to understand the tech. This is probably due to ongoing issue XXX. We are working on that currently, with an estimate of YYY-time delay. If it doesn't clear after YYY-time, call back and we will take it from there. Otherwise, how can I help?"
We're not even allowed to give timeframes. One to three business days is all we're allowed to say, because that's our SLA.

I've developed a patter for this, because I say it so many times a day.

"We endeavour to fulfil all requests within one to three business days. We can usually keep to that timeframe but please keep in mind that there is always the possibility of unavoidable delays due to factors beyond our control. The job has been escalated to the appropriate team, and they will get in contact with you as soon as they can."

That usually satisfies them.
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:27 PM   #3054
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's what I do. I'm often astonished how quick my router switches off and on, if they say switch it off and wait for 10 seconds (for the electricity to drain away...) mine is back on and ready at 10.1 seconds.
Them: unplug your router and wait 10 seconds.
Me: there's a battery in it.
Them: uhhhhh.....
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Old 18th February 2021, 09:53 PM   #3055
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Apparently I'm Tier 3 support. (Only found this out last week)

That will make the systems integration that I work on much easier...
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Old 19th February 2021, 03:14 AM   #3056
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
That's definitely doable. If a bigger monitor is in the budget.
Or just CTRL + Scroll wheel.
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Old 19th February 2021, 03:46 AM   #3057
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Or just CTRL + Scroll wheel.
No, you missed this bit:
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
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Old 19th February 2021, 09:32 AM   #3058
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You're right, sorry Joe
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Old 19th February 2021, 10:44 AM   #3059
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One reason I love Zen (my ISP) support is I can tell them I'm an ex-unix and windows sysadmin but know nothing about broadband protocols and we're off and they're asking questions about my ipconfig etc.

A bit of UK slang : "talktalk" is UK slang for "************* ************ inbred braindead shower of useless wastes of ******* oxygen". Pretty efficient bandwidth saver.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 22nd February 2021 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Rule 10
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Old 19th February 2021, 11:13 AM   #3060
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Sighs* I'm there again.

"I'm poor widdle old woman who's not good with these new fangled, what do you call them, computer things. These text is too small for my poor widdle old lady eyes can you make it bigger and still fit the exact same amount of text on screen?"
Easy-peasy! Just adjust the kerning and line spacing.

Of course, that would make it much more difficult to read. Then she'd get to say the classic "Well, it's what I asked for, but it's not what I want."
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Old 21st February 2021, 08:10 PM   #3061
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They've got me doing VoIP again. I don't mind the routineness of the job - it gets me off the phones for most of the day - but I am forced once again to wrangle Cisco Unified CM Administration again.
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Old 22nd February 2021, 02:16 AM   #3062
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Sounds like it isn’t a company that has outsourced its CS. With those companies there is usually literally and honestly nowhere or no one they can escalate anything to.
Oddly they haven't really outsourced, they merely applied the same mistakes internally, with cost (and staff) cutting exacerbated by a cost-driven refusal to update internal IT systems (which won't work effectively over RAS) and an inability to cope with the boom in remote working.
If there is a mistake to be made Eir(com) will make it. And then double down.

A call that should be dealt wit in a minute or so stretches to twenty because the poor bastard on the line is literally waiting minutes for the systems to provide the needed information, or accept changes, over RAS. It's painful to listen to.

That said the sheer incompetence that managed to:
1. Cancel the customer's contract (leaving him without service) before the appropriate date and without the new one being in place.
2. Fail to process the new contract properly.
3. Fail to comprehend what was happening.
4. Fail to process the second new contract.
5. Fail to comprehend what was happening.
really needs to be dealt with by mass firings of managers. From a cannon.

I consider that extracting (around) €1,750 in bill concessions and €2,750 in new toys as a mild punishment for their stupidity.
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Old 22nd February 2021, 02:17 AM   #3063
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
Back in my day most of the developers reckoned that their responsibility ended as soon as the code compiled. Let the users see if it did what was expected.
Ah the memories of my brief time working for Microsoft as a developer (remember "Windows NT5"?).
Followed by the memories of suing them.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 22nd February 2021, 02:20 AM   #3064
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm more patient. But not always compliant.

As they go through their scripted actions they want me to do, I (a) sip coffee, (b) browse this forum, (c) a little Solitaire, (d) catch up on news, etc. Meanwhile, keep saying "Yep, done", "OK, done", "Nope, nothing" in response to their instructions and requests for details. Because I have already done all these tests and checks before I even picked up the phone to call because I am an L2 and L3 tech for my own company. Until they get to the part where they say "Looks like I will have to forward this on to our L2 support", and then I ask for a job number, the L2's name and their contact details. Which is what I wanted and asked for in the first place.

Hey, it passes the time.
A reasonable policy, though for my own IT needs I can generally access L2/L3 directly. This however was a favour for a friend that should have been done in twenty minutes so I wasn't feeling patient. Also he ran out of coffee cake.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 08:29 PM   #3065
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So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it.

I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and...
...it was totally positive!!! They were extremely pleased with my performance in all areas and really encouraged me to branch out into areas that interest me (ie, training).

And I'm like

Yeah, take that, impostor syndrome! Booya.
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Old 24th February 2021, 12:32 AM   #3066
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"Why can't we load bad data on to your system it's causing us reconciliation errors?"
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Old 24th February 2021, 02:07 AM   #3067
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it.

I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and...
...it was totally positive!!! They were extremely pleased with my performance in all areas and really encouraged me to branch out into areas that interest me (ie, training).

And I'm like

Yeah, take that, impostor syndrome! Booya.
So whose job are you going to be given to do as well as the one you do now? Because they can then stay at home most of the week, and when you stress out and make mistakes, they can deflect the blame to you.

See, that's how the PS game is played: Never be in the same room as a decision, and always know who to blame.

ETA:
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Old 24th February 2021, 05:42 AM   #3068
HHellpop
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
So. As a public servant, I am required to submit a Performance Plan and have an interview with management every six months to monitor and provide feedback. In past jobs, I have found this to be super stressful and anxiety-inducing, especially since in one job I had a problem with my supervisor which was eventually taken to arbitration, and performance monitoring interviews made up a big part of that. I don't know if anyone remembers me talking about Boss of Doom about five or six years ago, but that was it.

I just had my six-monthly interview - my first since I got my permanency - and...
...it was totally positive!!! They were extremely pleased with my performance in all areas and really encouraged me to branch out into areas that interest me (ie, training).

And I'm like

Yeah, take that, impostor syndrome! Booya.
Maybe on the heels of a positive review, you should ask to not do VoIP.

ETA: Congrats! Perseverance in the face of user-borne adversity!
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Last edited by HHellpop; 24th February 2021 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 24th February 2021, 06:05 AM   #3069
HHellpop
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Recently, ATT was having major cell tower problems in our area, which I wasn't aware of at first. All company-issued phones are from ATT. Plus, we're on the river, so there's probably not a lot of redundancy to pick up when one tower goes down.

One of the staff comes to see me, complaining that the Wifi is killing his cell service, and it started the day before. I begin by pointing out that the two systems use very different frequencies, so it's very unlikely Wifi is causing interference. I add that I hadn't made any changes to the wireless system in weeks, and the phones were working fine all that time.

"But right now I have no service and can't even text, so how come it works when I go to my car, but not here?" Most of the buildings are metal, plus my office is in the middle of a building notorious for killing cell signals. I'm with Verizon, which has much better coverage around here. I grab my phone and text my sister, who immediately responds. "If the Wifi was causing the problem, I shouldn't have been able to do that."

"I'm not trying to argue with you, but why does mine work everywhere else except here?" I go through a few more tests with him, including disconnecting the access point in my office, which of course does not result in his service coming back. Even after we run into another guy who says, "Cell problems? ATT is having trouble. Probably a tower is down," he continues to say, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but...." Finally, after checking ATT's site and confirming that the service is out in the area, he stops trying to argue with me. Though I don't think he accepted that it was not the wireless signal doing it. And he probably thinks I'm an ******* for arguing with him.
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Old 24th February 2021, 08:50 AM   #3070
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by HHellpop View Post
Recently, ATT was having major cell tower problems in our area, which I wasn't aware of at first. All company-issued phones are from ATT. Plus, we're on the river, so there's probably not a lot of redundancy to pick up when one tower goes down.

One of the staff comes to see me, complaining that the Wifi is killing his cell service, and it started the day before. I begin by pointing out that the two systems use very different frequencies, so it's very unlikely Wifi is causing interference. I add that I hadn't made any changes to the wireless system in weeks, and the phones were working fine all that time.

"But right now I have no service and can't even text, so how come it works when I go to my car, but not here?" Most of the buildings are metal, plus my office is in the middle of a building notorious for killing cell signals. I'm with Verizon, which has much better coverage around here. I grab my phone and text my sister, who immediately responds. "If the Wifi was causing the problem, I shouldn't have been able to do that."

"I'm not trying to argue with you, but why does mine work everywhere else except here?" I go through a few more tests with him, including disconnecting the access point in my office, which of course does not result in his service coming back. Even after we run into another guy who says, "Cell problems? ATT is having trouble. Probably a tower is down," he continues to say, "I'm not trying to argue with you, but...." Finally, after checking ATT's site and confirming that the service is out in the area, he stops trying to argue with me. Though I don't think he accepted that it was not the wireless signal doing it. And he probably thinks I'm an ******* for arguing with him.
Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.
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Old 24th February 2021, 10:35 AM   #3071
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.
Lunch today? It's nearly the weekend, do it Monday. Or Tuesday, Mondays are usually busy.
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Old 24th February 2021, 11:18 AM   #3072
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Geez, if your wifi is taking out ATT in the whole area you need to stop arguing and find a solution. I'll check back on your progress after lunch. So, around 3ish.
Well, they asked for full coverage, so the only thing I could think of was putting all those antennae on the roof! And what is this "lunch" thing you speak of?
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Old 24th February 2021, 11:20 AM   #3073
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Lunch today? It's nearly the weekend, do it Monday. Or Tuesday, Mondays are usually busy.
I wanna work in your universe where the weeks are so short!
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Old 24th February 2021, 12:15 PM   #3074
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by HHellpop View Post
I wanna work in your universe where the weeks are so short!
Come to think of it, February's a short month so really it's kind of a wash. Let's circle back sometime in March and see what happens.
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Old 24th February 2021, 12:34 PM   #3075
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Come to think of it, February's a short month so really it's kind of a wash. Let's circle back sometime in March and see what happens.
I'll get my people to talk to your people to put something in our diaries.
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Old 24th February 2021, 02:39 PM   #3076
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by HHellpop View Post
Maybe on the heels of a positive review, you should ask to not do VoIP.
I'm actually not minding VoIP. I'm getting the hang of the routine stuff, so I can knock that out easily, and it has the occasional puzzler that I need to work out. It's cool. The tool sucks, but I've learned to drive it for the most part.
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Old 25th February 2021, 05:18 AM   #3077
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm actually not minding VoIP. I'm getting the hang of the routine stuff, so I can knock that out easily, and it has the occasional puzzler that I need to work out. It's cool. The tool sucks, but I've learned to drive it for the most part.
It's done, then. You have been assimilated! Welcome to the VoIP Collective!
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Old 25th February 2021, 05:55 AM   #3078
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
I'll get my people to talk to your people to put something in our diaries.
My diary is Google and it is offline. Seems someone's wifi is interfering with the cell coverage. Let me chase it down first, then we can sync diaries or do Zoom or something.

Damn, have I always been a cat?
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Old 7th March 2021, 08:47 PM   #3079
arthwollipot
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Quote:
I was relocated by IT Club house into a meeting room set up for a new team. My phone was never patched in and there is not enough cables to connect to all the phones in the room. Please have someone from desktop or networking to fix this ASAP. I have been without a phone or LAN connection since Monday.

Firstname Surname
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...and you didn't tell us about this until Friday because..?
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Old 7th March 2021, 11:21 PM   #3080
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After much reading of this thread and TalesFromTechSupport [Reddit], I was ... inspired ... to write this.

Call IT!

If your computer isn't working, call IT!
If your network's not connecting, call IT!
----If it's plugged into a wall,
----Is electronical at all,
If your "On" light's on no longer, call IT!

Has your browser jumped the shark? Call IT!
Has your smartphone gone all dark? Call IT!
----If it's plugged into a wall,
----Is electronical at all,
If your phone's no longer phoning, call IT!

If you cannot keyboard well, call IT!
Or change a spreadsheet cell, call IT!
----If it's plugged into a wall,
----Is electronical at all,
If you cannot read instructions, call IT!

If you can't find the power buttons, call IT!
Or manage basic functions, call IT!
----If it's plugged into a wall,
----Is electronical at all,
Or are just computer helpless, call IT!

If your fax machine's not faxing, call IT!
If your TV's not receiving, call IT!
----If it's plugged into a wall,
----Is electronical at all ... !
... Or the power has gone out, call IT!
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