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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 7th March 2021, 09:08 PM   #3201
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Good timing with rains and good agriculture results, plus minerals prices improving?
We wore the GFC in 2008 as well, largely due to the minerals market. But the bottom is about to drop out of the coal market, so we'll have to see what happens then.
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Old 7th March 2021, 09:19 PM   #3202
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We wore the GFC in 2008 as well, largely due to the minerals market. But the bottom is about to drop out of the coal market, so we'll have to see what happens then.
Education is out third biggest export earner, so our recovery will to a major extent depend on the return of overseas students. I think they will return in large numbers when international borders reopen.

Even with China now discouraging students from choosing Australia as an education destination, we will be a far safer place than just about anywhere.

But if overseas education collapses, our economy will be hit very hard.
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Old 7th March 2021, 09:25 PM   #3203
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Education is out third biggest export earner, so our recovery will to a major extent depend on the return of overseas students. I think they will return in large numbers when international borders reopen.

Even with China now discouraging students from choosing Australia as an education destination, we will be a far safer place than just about anywhere.

But if overseas education collapses, our economy will be hit very hard.
Living in Canberra, I can confirm this. There are a lot of overseas students here - mostly from China.
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Old 7th March 2021, 09:47 PM   #3204
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Now usually I couldn't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys about the Royal Family. But Oprah's interview with Harry and Meg has just aired, and there are a few bombshells, one of the biggest of which I think is this:

Meghan and Harry Oprah interview: couple claims concerns were voiced about Archie's skin colour

Quote:
Meghan said she was not told why Archie wouldn’t be offered security protection. She also said that Harry told her there had been conversations about how dark her baby’s skin might be and “what that would mean or look like”.

“In those months when I was pregnant, all around this same time, so we have in tandem the conversation of, ‘you won’t be given security, not gonna be given a title’ and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born,” she said. Harry said he had been “shocked” by conversation but refused to reveal more details.
They refused to identify who brought skin colour up, but my bet is that it was Phil.

And yeah, I know, you're saying "OMG the Royals are racist? What a truly stunning revelation that we didn't already know". But still, to have this particular snippet out in the open is pretty damning, not even counting the issues of mental health that were also openly discussed in the interview.

My interest in the whole thing was limited to following the liveblog of the interview on the Guardian, and of course subsequently what Colbert, Myers and Oliver have to say about it. But I really do feel a bit more sympathetic to the pair of them.
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Old 7th March 2021, 10:13 PM   #3205
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Now usually I couldn't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys about the Royal Family. But Oprah's interview with Harry and Meg has just aired, and there are a few bombshells, one of the biggest of which I think is this:

Meghan and Harry Oprah interview: couple claims concerns were voiced about Archie's skin colour

They refused to identify who brought skin colour up, but my bet is that it was Phil.

And yeah, I know, you're saying "OMG the Royals are racist? What a truly stunning revelation that we didn't already know". But still, to have this particular snippet out in the open is pretty damning, not even counting the issues of mental health that were also openly discussed in the interview.

My interest in the whole thing was limited to following the liveblog of the interview on the Guardian, and of course subsequently what Colbert, Myers and Oliver have to say about it. But I really do feel a bit more sympathetic to the pair of them.
I think this might be better in the “monarchy” thread. No big deal, but I think there would be more discussion there.
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Old 7th March 2021, 10:25 PM   #3206
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I think this might be better in the “monarchy” thread. No big deal, but I think there would be more discussion there.
Possibly, but I haven't posted there so it didn't come up in my subscriptions.

Heading there now.
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Old 8th March 2021, 02:22 PM   #3207
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The latest 4 Corners episode is worth a look. A tearful Christian Porter emphatically denying all accusations of sexual misconduct, and many friends of the accuser extolling her virtues. Christian's recollection of the events at the time of the alleged assault seem to be a little inconsistent.

I had forgotten about Porter's inappropriate behaviour in the bar with the girl some months earlier that was the subject of media interest. Sort of tarnishes his brighter than white image methinks.

This is a story that brings into focus once again the difficulty victims of abuse face where trying to get justice. One persons word against another, as in the George Pell case.
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Old 8th March 2021, 10:42 PM   #3208
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It seems that Matty isn't very popular overseas...

UK warned not to back Mathias Cormann as new OECD head

Quote:
Support for Australian ex-minister with poor record on climate crisis would send ‘terrible message’


The UK has been warned not to send a dreadful message to the rest of the world by backing a controversial Australian former minister with a much-criticised climate change record to run the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

The race to be the next secretary-general of the OECD – the Paris-based economic thinktank that advises governments across the world – has narrowed to Mathias Cormann, the former Australian finance minister, and Cecilia Malmström, the former EU trade commissioner and Swedish centrist politician. The result is due by 15 March.

Malmström said she had the backing of many EU and non-EU countries in the 39-strong OECD, but admitted she did not know how the US, viewed as the key to the outcome, was planning to vote. Canada, also seen as critical, is likely to follow the US’ lead.

John Kerry, Biden’s climate change envoy, was in London for talks with British ministers, and Labour’s shadow environment spokesman, Matthew Pennycook, warned it would send a terrible signal if it was known that the UK was backing Cormann.
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Old 8th March 2021, 11:45 PM   #3209
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It seems that Matty isn't very popular overseas...

UK warned not to back Mathias Cormann as new OECD head
Oh wouldn’t that be a pity.......
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Old 9th March 2021, 01:20 AM   #3210
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
The latest 4 Corners episode is worth a look. A tearful Christian Porter emphatically denying all accusations of sexual misconduct, and many friends of the accuser extolling her virtues. Christian's recollection of the events at the time of the alleged assault seem to be a little inconsistent.

I had forgotten about Porter's inappropriate behaviour in the bar with the girl some months earlier that was the subject of media interest. Sort of tarnishes his brighter than white image methinks.

This is a story that brings into focus once again the difficulty victims of abuse face where trying to get justice. One persons word against another, as in the George Pell case.
Watching it now. Crybaby Porter on leave until this blows over.

Morrison again fails as a leader. If it were a Labor member, the Libs and News would be apoplectic. Playing the victim? What a ******* jerk.
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Old 9th March 2021, 01:53 AM   #3211
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I can hear the laughter from Sydney all the way to Auckland over this one: https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austra...tebrae-in-fall

I hear the queue to claim responsibility is 11 km long already.
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Old 9th March 2021, 02:02 AM   #3212
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I can hear the laughter from Sydney all the way to Auckland over this one: https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austra...tebrae-in-fall

I hear the queue to claim responsibility is 11 km long already.
Oh well done.

Anyone else in ICU you want to bravely kick the **** out of?
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Old 9th March 2021, 02:24 AM   #3213
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Porter is done. He can’t survive as AG and he won’t achieve his ambition of future PM.
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Old 9th March 2021, 11:47 AM   #3214
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh well done.

Anyone else in ICU you want to bravely kick the **** out of?
First off, I didn't say I found it funny - I was pointing out that he has a lot of enemies in NSW, and they do. I've heard from 6 Sydneysiders in the past 24 hours who wish they'd pushed him.

Secondly, the ICU looks pretty dodgy - I've never heard of anyone Tweeting their way through the stay in an ICU, and he does only have some non-life-threatening broken bones. I don't imagine any non-politician would be in an ICU with the same injuries.
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Old 9th March 2021, 01:36 PM   #3215
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Porter is done. He can’t survive as AG and he won’t achieve his ambition of future PM.

He would do well in the USA, where a groper rises to hero status. A rapist? Sky's the limit.
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Old 9th March 2021, 04:49 PM   #3216
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
He would do well in the USA, where a groper rises to hero status. A rapist? Sky's the limit.
Unintentional pun, there.
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Old 9th March 2021, 05:35 PM   #3217
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
He would do well in the USA, where a groper rises to hero status. A rapist? Sky's the limit.
Are you talking about the USA's former President?
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Old 9th March 2021, 05:37 PM   #3218
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Are you talking about the USA's former President?
Several of them, probably.
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Old 9th March 2021, 05:42 PM   #3219
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Secondly, the ICU looks pretty dodgy - I've never heard of anyone Tweeting their way through the stay in an ICU, and he does only have some non-life-threatening broken bones. I don't imagine any non-politician would be in an ICU with the same injuries.
It’s not made up. A tweet from Dan:

Quote:
Early this morning, I was admitted to hospital after slipping and falling on wet and slippery stairs. A CT scan has revealed several broken ribs and vertebrae damage, and subsequent medical advice has recommended I remain in intensive care for the next few days.
The hospital explained that multiple rib fractures can easily lead to organ damage.
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Old 9th March 2021, 05:59 PM   #3220
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s not made up.
Do you even read, bro?

I didn't say it was made up, I suggested it wasn't life-threatening, which appears to be correct. Hey, you might have some spare capacity now Covid deaths have ceased and he's gone in there on precaution, but I have extreme doubts whether an ordinary bloke would be in there in the same condition as Dan.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The hospital explained that multiple rib fractures can easily lead to organ damage.
Been there, done that, but organ damage happens at the time of injury, and he's been very thoroughly checked. You don't suddenly develop an injury a day or two later.

Or is he likely to trip over himself if he goes to the bog?
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Old 9th March 2021, 06:10 PM   #3221
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I trust that the qualified medical professionals in whose care he remains have good reasons for recommending he stay in intensive care for a few days.
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Old 9th March 2021, 06:54 PM   #3222
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Today I learned that the Queensland Minister for Education is named Grace Grace.
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Old 9th March 2021, 08:35 PM   #3223
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More on Daniel Andrews' injuries. It's quite serious. This wan't a little tumble.

Daniel Andrews is still in hospital after a fall — so what does that mean for the Victorian Government?

Quote:
The ABC understands the Premier has fractured his T7 vertebra in his mid back.

A decision will be made on whether he needs to have spinal surgery today.

However the ABC understands the Premier does not have any punctured lungs, which was a concern yesterday with his broken ribs.

The Victorian Government is expected to provide an update later.

The ABC understands it will take Mr Andrews weeks to recover from the serious injury.

Mr Andrews's colleague, Environment Minister Lily D'Ambrosio, said he was in good spirits and getting the best care possible.
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Old 9th March 2021, 09:24 PM   #3224
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Ever wanted to see Dominionism in action? Here you are:

George Christensen says Christians should join political parties to control the balance of power

Quote:
“It’s just as simple as this, I said this to a Church and State Conference held in Brisbane, well Logan actually, recently. The Sydney Morning Herald picked it up and said ‘ooh this is some sinister plot, Christian takeover’.

“But I just said, it’s simple numbers, if there’s five thousand members of the National Party in New South Wales and suddenly five thousand other people join, and they all just happen to be traditional orthodox Bible-believing Christians, well guess what’s going to happen to the National party. Guess what’s going to happen every time a candidate is selected.

“If we want to ensure that were not just winning fights, but if we want to ensure that governments are going to push back on our freedoms and the rights of people of faith being taken away, then we’ve go to get inside the tent. Join, and join a major party, is what I’d say.
This is straight talking, down-the-line Kingdom Now Dominionism.
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Old 9th March 2021, 10:10 PM   #3225
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ever wanted to see Dominionism in action? Here you are:

George Christensen says Christians should join political parties to control the balance of power

This is straight talking, down-the-line Kingdom Now Dominionism.
It's branch-stacking, which is illegal.
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Old 9th March 2021, 10:28 PM   #3226
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ever wanted to see Dominionism in action? Here you are:

George Christensen says Christians should join political parties to control the balance of power

This is straight talking, down-the-line Kingdom Now Dominionism.
Quote:
“It’s just as simple as this, I said this to a Church and State Conference held in Brisbane, well Logan actually, recently. The Sydney Morning Herald picked it up and said ‘ooh this is some sinister plot, Christian takeover’.
George Christensen was wrong. It is not a Christian takeover, it is straight talking, down-the-line Kingdom Now Dominionism.
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Old 9th March 2021, 10:30 PM   #3227
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
George Christensen was wrong. It is not a Christian takeover, it is straight talking, down-the-line Kingdom Now Dominionism.
Same thing. It's literally the same thing.

I should say that Kingdom Now Dominionism is attempted Christian takeover, since as far as I know it has never been successful.
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Old 10th March 2021, 01:41 AM   #3228
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Same thing. It's literally the same thing.
Nonsense. Not all Christians are Pentecostalists and not all Pentecostalists are "Kingdom now Dominionalists".

You are just too choked up with hatred to think logically.
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Old 10th March 2021, 12:55 PM   #3229
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Same thing. It's literally the same thing.

I should say that Kingdom Now Dominionism is attempted Christian takeover, since as far as I know it has never been successful.

Seems that way to me also. I must be chocked up with that hatred psionl0 son about also. Here are a couple of excerpts from the rantings of Christensen:


Quote:
“We’re entering a time now where it’s going to go one of two ways, and one of the ways it could go is to complete silence Christians who are of, shall I say, the traditional, orthodox, Bible-believing variety from being able to speak in the public square.” Christensen said.
What! I for one support the traditional, orthodox, Bible-believing variety, being able to speak their nonsense from a soap box. Free public entertainment should always be supported.


Quote:
“In fact the voices that are out there taking opposite views to what traditional orthodox Bible-believing Christians would espouse are not shy in actually saying ‘You guys should shut-up, you should not have voice.’ They bang on about the separation of Church and State, as if that means that if you are a person of faith you should not have any say in how the country is run. Which is completely turning the concept of the separation of powers of Church and State on it’s head.”
Seems a tad convoluted to me.

If you have a government stacked with "traditional orthodox Bible-believing Christians", who are driven to see "the word of God" being acted upon, then how can you have separation of "Church and State".
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Old 10th March 2021, 02:03 PM   #3230
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Nonsense. Not all Christians are Pentecostalists and not all Pentecostalists are "Kingdom now Dominionalists".
Please point out where I said that all Christians are Pentecostal, and all Pentecostals are Dominionists.

Go on. I'll wait. If I'm so choked up with hatred, I must have said it plenty of times, right? Please, I'm waiting. Direct quotes and links to the posts, please.

Oh wait you can't because I have never said that, because that would be ******* ridiculous. You're so in denial about Dominionism that you can't even spell it right. I bet you haven't even read the Wikipedia page on it.

Here's more about the Dominionists in politics today:

‘It’s our turn’: Inside the Christian Right conference plotting a political takeover

Quote:
Craig Kelly was lauded as a hero, a federal MP likened his colleagues to nappies and people joked about needing a World War to distract from gender identity debates.

But the main lesson from the “Church and State” conference last weekend in Brisbane was how conservative Christian activists are attempting to grow their numbers and influence within the Coalition, and believe opposition to transgender rights will be key to their political success.

...

Conference convener Dave Pellowe, who once appeared in an infamous selfie with members of the neo-fascist Proud Boys group, implored the audience to join political parties. “When you add a bag of salt to a cup of water, it’s going to taste salty. It’s just a numbers game,” he said. “It’s not branch stacking, it’s participation. It’s what they’ve been doing with the Frankfurt School and the infiltration of the institutions for 50 years. It’s just turning up. And it’s our turn to turn up.”

...

Mr Christensen also advocated Christians take a “smarter” approach to debate by self-censoring some of their agenda until they were in power. “We have got to pick the battles that we can win on in the public arena in order to get elected and be in government, and then prosecute the other battles while you’re in government,” he said.

...

Mr Iles said Christians tended to “hide in plain sight”. “The more we are seen for who we really are, the more powerful our influence is actually going to be,” he said.
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Old 10th March 2021, 02:07 PM   #3231
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Meanwhile it appears that the Republican movement is gaining steam again.

Former Australian PM says Harry and Meghan interview strengthens case for becoming republic

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Former Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull has again called for the country to become a republic after the Duke and Duchess of Sussex's interview with Oprah Winfrey.

Mr Turnbull, who met the couple in 2018 in the final months of his prime ministership, told ABC on Tuesday that the situation “seems very sad”.

“My view in 1999 was that if we voted no to the republic, we wouldn’t come back to the issue until after the end of the Queen’s reign… She’s been an extraordinary head of state, and I think, frankly, in Australia, there are more Elizabethans than there are monarchists.

“After the end of the Queen’s reign, that is the time for us to say – OK, we’ve passed that watershed and do we really want to have whoever happens to be head of state, the King or Queen of the UK, automatically our head of state?”
That's an interesting statement. There are more Elizabethans than there are monarchists.
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Old 10th March 2021, 03:23 PM   #3232
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And here it is, all official-like, from the ARM:

Australian Republican Movement to propose model for republic in second half of 2021

Quote:
Following Prince Harry and Meghan’s tell-all interview, group hopes for referendum within year of Queen’s reign ending


The Australian Republican Movement will propose its model for an Australian republic in the second half of this year, with hopes for a referendum to be called within a year of the Queen stepping down from the throne.

The ARM revealed the plans after Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s explosive tell-all interview, which has reignited talk of Australia’s independence from the monarchy.

Sandy Biar, national director of the Australian Republican Movement, told Guardian Australia the group had been workingon a model for an Australian republic that would attract strong bipartisan support.

“What we’ve been doing in the last year is consulting and talking to parliamentarians and getting out in the community to understand public opinion,” Biar said.

“We’ve been working to develop a consensus position on a model [for Australia to become a republic] to ensure there is common ground for these reforms. And we will be announcing this model in the second half of this year, which we think will get up on a referendum.”
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Old 10th March 2021, 09:17 PM   #3233
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Please point out where I said that all Christians are Pentecostal, and all Pentecostals are Dominionists.
You are the one who claimed that a Christian takeover is literally the same thing as "straight talking, down-the-line Kingdom Now Dominionism". That could only be true if all Christians are Pentecostals and all Pentecostals are Kingdom Now Dominionists. That's logic.

It's a funny thing. If communists dominate a political party (like they did with the Nuclear Disarmament Party) and cause it to change direction, well, that's politics. If Christians do the same thing then that is a "Christian takeover" No, wait, that doesn't sound bad enough. Let's call it "Kingdom Now Dominionism".
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Old 10th March 2021, 10:42 PM   #3234
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There is a way to avoid having King Charles becoming King of Australia. Change how the succession works. Declare that the next sovereign is whoever the GG is at the time. They are the sovereign only as long as they are GG. That way no need for a referendum to make heaps of changes to the constitution.
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Old 10th March 2021, 10:55 PM   #3235
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
There is a way to avoid having King Charles becoming King of Australia. Change how the succession works. Declare that the next sovereign is whoever the GG is at the time. They are the sovereign only as long as they are GG. That way no need for a referendum to make heaps of changes to the constitution.
That’s the most ridiculous suggestion I’ve heard. Make some stooge who manages to get appointed as GG the King or Queen of Australia?

Maybe you can’t remember why the referendum was lost. It was lost because the public didn’t support a president chosen by a Constitutional Convention rather than an election. And it will likely be the reason it will be lost again.
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Old 10th March 2021, 11:24 PM   #3236
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Maybe you can’t remember why the referendum was lost. It was lost because the public didn’t support a president chosen by a Constitutional Convention rather than an election.
It appears that you have also forgotten. The president wouldn't have been chosen by a "constitutional convention" but by Parliament directly. The public didn't agree with that - especially when the constitution would also have spelled out that the president was to be the puppet of the PM.

The referendum might have been more successful if campaigners like Malcolm Turnbull hadn't run such an elitist campaign. Their attitude was akin to "Don't worry your pretty little heads about the details. Leave that up to us". Peter Costello was one of the few campaigners to make a persuasive case for the model.

Of course, the referendum was dead in the water after John Howard claimed that an elected president would be more legitimate than a PM (his intent all along).
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Old 11th March 2021, 12:44 AM   #3237
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It appears that you have also forgotten. The president wouldn't have been chosen by a "constitutional convention" but by Parliament directly. .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_A...lic_referendum

I was slightly (but only slightly) wrong. Parliament was to follow the appointment model selected by the constitutional convention to choose a President

The main point is that the public had no real say. It was the death knell to the referendum, and will be again regardless of the shenanigans between the royals.
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Old 11th March 2021, 01:07 AM   #3238
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I was slightly (but only slightly) wrong. Parliament was to follow the appointment model selected by the constitutional convention to choose a President
You might have been thinking of the McGarvey model. Andrew McGarvey had proposed replacing the Queen with a constitutional council and keeping everything else the same. This was dubbed a "minimalist" model in the media.

That model never got put to the referendum even though a number of conservative politicians were willing to support it.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The main point is that the public had no real say. It was the death knell to the referendum, and will be again regardless of the shenanigans between the royals.
True.
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Old 11th March 2021, 01:07 AM   #3239
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We currently have no say in who becomes our GG. As long as they remain only a figurehead when they become sovereign then I cannot see what the problem is. My suggestion is for the minimum change.

If the sovereign (call them President, if you wish) is to be elected what role should they have? Remain a figurehead or give them real, independent power? If the former what is the point of electing them? If the later then what power and how can a dispute between them and the PM be resolved?
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Old 11th March 2021, 01:42 AM   #3240
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
We currently have no say in who becomes our GG. As long as they remain only a figurehead when they become sovereign then I cannot see what the problem is. My suggestion is for the minimum change.

If the sovereign (call them President, if you wish) is to be elected what role should they have? Remain a figurehead or give them real, independent power? If the former what is the point of electing them? If the later then what power and how can a dispute between them and the PM be resolved?
An elected president and elected Taoiseach seems to work very well in Ireland. Why not here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Ireland
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