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Old 10th January 2021, 07:18 AM   #3001
Rolfe
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Do you think it would be easier to fake up a convincing fake than to steal it from somewhere? Not so sure.

The hazards you mention are a hazard with pretty much all black and grey market items (they might be fake) but still these markets thrive.

I don't know if there is a genuine threat of vaccine being stolen or not, but I wouldn't put it beyond people to try. I mean people were stealing hand sanitiser in April and May FFS.

People were stealing hand sanitiser for their own use, and to flog on the black market. Alcohol-based gels to rub on the hands are a lot harder to fake than vials of "vaccine", paradoxically.

It would depend on who you were trying to convince. Do you know what a vial of each of the different brands of coronavirus vaccine looks like, well enough to spot a fake? I don't. It would be easy enough to fake up a convincing-looking label.

If you're planning to sell to a government that needs to acquire more vaccine you might have to be a bit careful. If you're trying to fool little old ladies into parting with £100 for a home-visit vaccination, not so much.
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Old 10th January 2021, 09:20 AM   #3002
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Huge crowds lining the streets in Crosby to see the Spurs bus to arrive at the Marine ground.

I assume the lockdown doesn't apply there today.

Police not making any attempts to disperse the crowds, they might as well just let them in to watch the match.
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Old 10th January 2021, 12:28 PM   #3003
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Huge crowds lining the streets in Crosby to see the Spurs bus to arrive at the Marine ground.

I assume the lockdown doesn't apply there today.

Police not making any attempts to disperse the crowds, they might as well just let them in to watch the match.
Having seen the Marine ground I doubt you could actually let crowd in. On one side the ball literally lands in someone's back garden if it goes out of play.
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Old 11th January 2021, 08:16 AM   #3004
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Hmmmmmmm

I'm not sure that I believe the following news out of Wales:

Quote:
All over-50s and everyone who is at greater risk from Covid will be offered a vaccine by spring, under new Welsh Government plans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55615202

As someone in their early 50's living in Wales, should I read that as saying that I will have had the first vaccine by 21 March this year ?

Or does it mean that I'll have the vaccine by the end of Spring - i.e. 21 June

Or does it simply mean that I will receive a letter by 21 June saying that will be getting the vaccine ?

Reading the announcement literally, it seems to be the first. I think it's more likely to be the last on the grounds that more than 60% of people in Wales fall into the 9 priority groups and that same article says:

Quote:
A vaccine strategy unveiled by Health Minister Vaughan Gething aims to offer all adults a jab by the autumn.
Again with the "offer" and not "deliver".

I also worry whether second vaccinations will ever be given.

Currently a little under 40,000 vaccines a week are being delivered and vaccinating everyone in Wales over 16 twice will require more than 4 million vaccinations.
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Old 11th January 2021, 09:11 AM   #3005
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There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise.

"A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night.

“He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”
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Old 11th January 2021, 10:47 AM   #3006
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Hmmmmmmm

I'm not sure that I believe the following news out of Wales:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55615202

As someone in their early 50's living in Wales, should I read that as saying that I will have had the first vaccine by 21 March this year ?

Or does it mean that I'll have the vaccine by the end of Spring - i.e. 21 June

Or does it simply mean that I will receive a letter by 21 June saying that will be getting the vaccine ?

Reading the announcement literally, it seems to be the first. I think it's more likely to be the last on the grounds that more than 60% of people in Wales fall into the 9 priority groups and that same article says:



Again with the "offer" and not "deliver".

I also worry whether second vaccinations will ever be given.

Currently a little under 40,000 vaccines a week are being delivered and vaccinating everyone in Wales over 16 twice will require more than 4 million vaccinations.
As ever the words are carefully chosen, they are only now talking about one dose as being “vaccinated”.
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Old 11th January 2021, 10:49 AM   #3007
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise.

"A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night.

“He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”
The PM has been clear for months that those rules don’t effect him and his mates.
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Old 11th January 2021, 11:06 AM   #3008
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The PM has been clear for months that those rules don’t effect him and his mates.
If it happened as described and he's asked about it it'll be interesting to see how he spins it.
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Old 11th January 2021, 12:17 PM   #3009
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise.

"A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night.

“He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”
Doesn't whether he breached the rules depend on whether he drove or cycled to the park? (I notice that question was not answered, and I would be surprised to hear that he had cycled that far from Downing Street.)
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Old 11th January 2021, 01:43 PM   #3010
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Doesn't whether he breached the rules depend on whether he drove or cycled to the park? (I notice that question was not answered, and I would be surprised to hear that he had cycled that far from Downing Street.)
I'd be surprised too, but my understanding is that we've been told to stay close to the village/town/city area where we live when taking exercise. Meanwhile, iirc, some people were hit with fines for driving to a beauty spot in order to have a country walk.

"You may exercise on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area. You cannot meet other people you do not live with, or have not formed a support bubble with, unless for a permitted reason." from gov.uk
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Old 11th January 2021, 01:47 PM   #3011
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I really hope they at least don’t totally screw up the vaccination program. Looking at the infection rates and the stupid lockdown (stupid in that it still forces people who cant work from home to mingle during their commutes and in workplaces) if they do then we are really screwed.
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Old 11th January 2021, 01:48 PM   #3012
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I'd be surprised too, but my understanding is that we've been told to stay close to the village/town/city area where we live when taking exercise. Meanwhile, iirc, some people were hit with fines for driving to a beauty spot in order to have a country walk.
I think refunded and police apology provided.
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Old 11th January 2021, 01:53 PM   #3013
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Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062
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Old 11th January 2021, 02:47 PM   #3014
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062
Where did you get that bit from? I thought they brought the drinks with them; did they buy them on the way?
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Old 11th January 2021, 02:49 PM   #3015
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
I think refunded and police apology provided.
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062
Right, but still contrary to the guidelines. And if anybody should be setting an example, it's ... ?

(Silly me. Yes, I know)
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Old 11th January 2021, 03:18 PM   #3016
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If you are middle class the police will apologise to you and let you off if you make a fuss.
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Old 11th January 2021, 03:28 PM   #3017
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If you are middle class the police will apologise to you and let you off if you make a fuss.
If you are upper class police will follow you to stop the oils disturbing your normal life.
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Old 11th January 2021, 03:49 PM   #3018
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I really hope they at least don’t totally screw up the vaccination program. Looking at the infection rates and the stupid lockdown (stupid in that it still forces people who cant work from home to mingle during their commutes and in workplaces) if they do then we are really screwed.

I'm far from confident that they're not screwing up the vaccination campaign.

They're also not learning the lesson of last summer. The virus was all-but eliminated in Scotland with no community spread over most of the country. That was achieved from an absolutely dreadful position in the spring, and without any vaccination. With proper travel restrictions and border controls the virus could easily have been entirely excluded. Again, that's without any vaccine, in a country still full of susceptible people.

With a vaccine it should be immensely easier to repeat the exercise, and the availability of vaccination also makes the problem of border controls much easier to handle.

However it requires careful planning, and a continuation of rigorous surveillance, testing, contact tracing and (where appropriate) isolation well into the period where the vaccination campaign is well underway, and indeed beyond this.

The prize is a country as covid-free as NZ but with less stringent entry requirements once incoming travellers can be required to be vaccinated. NZ will probably show the way on this once its own domestic vaccination campaign is complete.

I still retain hope that eventually they will get the message that they have to do it, because the countries that called this right have demonstrated unequivocally that there is a covid-free future and people will want that. But it does seem as if, if there is a wrong decision to make, they'll make it. And that goes for most European countries too I'm afraid.
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Old 11th January 2021, 04:13 PM   #3019
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tomorrows Mail headline. Are we headed for the 3M rule?

That's a joke! The ******* in the supermarket, employees and shoppers alike couldn't resist overtaking me and coming within 50cm of me when I waited for some old biddy to finish reading every packet of ham to give her space.
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Old 11th January 2021, 04:32 PM   #3020
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Oh and I know this will shock everyone but England’s world class test and trace system needs a few little tweaks.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ngland-experts

.... There is increasing concern among test-and-trace healthcare professionals about the use of outsourced call centre staff, often employed on minimum wage by telesales firms contracted by Serco, who have been drafted in to carry out detailed interviews with coronavirus patients.
....
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Old 11th January 2021, 05:56 PM   #3021
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Actually what has shocked me about that is that there's still a test and trace operation going on at all.
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Old 11th January 2021, 07:36 PM   #3022
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Where did you get that bit from? I thought they brought the drinks with them; did they buy them on the way?
I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814

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Old 11th January 2021, 07:43 PM   #3023
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Boris getting flak for riding 7 miles across London on his bike while exercising over the weekend after telling us all to stay at home
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Old 12th January 2021, 01:19 AM   #3024
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Boris getting flak for riding 7 miles across London on his bike while exercising over the weekend after telling us all to stay at home
AIUI the "exercise locally and from home" message is just guidance rather than the law. If Boris Johnson cycled from Downing Street then IMO fair do's if he drove then it's yet another example of one set of rules for us and a different one for them.

I'm lucky enough to be able to walk, run and cycle from my front door although my definition of "local" is quite broad because I can easily be 30km from home if I'm cycling or 10km if I'm running.

I note that the local car parks were relatively full over the Christmas period but when Mrs Don and I walked to Tintern on Sunday the place was deserted. There weren't even locals walking around, much less tourists.
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Old 12th January 2021, 01:36 AM   #3025
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814
Was that a photo of the actual event? If so, who took it?
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Old 12th January 2021, 02:46 AM   #3026
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
AIUI the "exercise locally and from home" message is just guidance rather than the law. If Boris Johnson cycled from Downing Street then IMO fair do's if he drove then it's yet another example of one set of rules for us and a different one for them.

...snip....
And even if it was “technically” fine why do it, surely you’d want to be setting your best example at such a time?
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Old 12th January 2021, 02:57 AM   #3027
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And even if it was “technically” fine why do it, surely you’d want to be setting your best example at such a time?
....which prompts the question of why he was there in any case.

I'm sure Boris Johnson has access to a gym and/or a turbo trainer if he wanted to get some exercise.

This looks more like a messianic "moving among his people" stunt to me.
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Old 12th January 2021, 03:35 AM   #3028
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Because we can’t give vouchers or money to the poor with kids - they’ll only spend it on flat screen TVs*, we are sending out food parcels. Now I can understand how it could be argued that by sending food parcels we are making sure the “right” food is being sent out and of course using bulk purchasing should mean more and/or better quality food can be sent out that the household couldn’t afford with their £30 budget.

However it appears that from a charge of £30 to schools only around £6 is for the actual food content of the parcel. A footballer who has been very vocal and has had some success in influencing public option about food poverty has several examples on his twitter feed: https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford

Struggling with links to the photos in the twitter feedso with a peg on my nose I’ll use a DM article link that has the photos: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-days.html


*ETA: should make it clear that this is to replace the “free school meals” the kids would usually have at school but with lockdown now don’t. It appears that schools have some choice in whether to provide via parcels or vouchers.
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:04 AM   #3029
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814
So you based your conclusion of what happened at the time on a posed photo for the media taken after the event?
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:05 AM   #3030
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because we can’t give vouchers or money to the poor with kids - they’ll only spend it on flat screen TVs*, we are sending out food parcels. Now I can understand how it could be argued that by sending food parcels we are making sure the “right” food is being sent out and of course using bulk purchasing should mean more and/or better quality food can be sent out that the household couldn’t afford with their £30 budget.

However it appears that from a charge of £30 to schools only around £6 is for the actual food content of the parcel. A footballer who has been very vocal and has had some success in influencing public option about food poverty has several examples on his twitter feed: https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford

Struggling with links to the photos in the twitter feedso with a peg on my nose I’ll use a DM article link that has the photos: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-days.html


*ETA: should make it clear that this is to replace the “free school meals” the kids would usually have at school but with lockdown now don’t. It appears that schools have some choice in whether to provide via parcels or vouchers.
What's the point of charity if someone isn't getting rich off it?
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:17 AM   #3031
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
What's the point of charity if someone isn't getting rich off it?
Listening to Radio 4 this morning, they mentioned this story and the company who was responsible for delivering the package said that the contents weren't typical and that they would definitely look into it.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they just thought "****-em, they're just chavs and won't mind any old rubbish".
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:22 AM   #3032
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Listening to Radio 4 this morning, they mentioned this story and the company who was responsible for delivering the package said that the contents weren't typical and that they would definitely look into it.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they just thought "****-em, they're just chavs and won't mind any old rubbish".
More like the company will have gone through “What is the least amount we have to spend to technically meet the guidelines?” That probably came to £7.50 and then the call went out, “Is there a fine or penalty that will hit the bottom line if we don’t meet the guidelines?” - The answer will be “no” - and the instructions changed to “no more than a fiver”.
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:23 AM   #3033
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One thing I did notice is that there was no ingredient lists apart from the pre-packaged stuff. Surely they still have to provide that info?
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Old 12th January 2021, 04:46 AM   #3034
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Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-meal-packages


Quote:
a package, supposedly containing £30 worth of food to last for 10 days, comprising just a loaf of bread, some cheese, a tin of beans, two carrots, two bananas, three apples, two potatoes, a bag of pasta, three Frubes, two Soreen bars and a tomato.
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Old 12th January 2021, 06:08 AM   #3035
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
It should be a breeze to track down the suppliers and fine their arses off, no?
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Old 12th January 2021, 06:23 AM   #3036
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
It should be a breeze to track down the suppliers and fine their arses off, no?
The supplier in question is Chartwells.

A Google search throws up some interesting tweets showing the kind of food they can deliver to private schools (for a pretty price I'm sure) contrasted to the miserable "hamper" that's generating the headlines.

The directors of Chartwells are doing very nicely (£1m+ renumeration) and I'm sure this contract will do a good job of making the bottom line look good.

I'm sure that they'll say that the £5.22 hamper is an aberration, glossing over the fact that usually they "only" stiff the client by 50% or so

Here's Jay Rayner retweeting a tweet which contrasts £30 of food vs the Chartwells £30 "Hamper"

https://twitter.com/jayrayner1/statu...20418984464385
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Old 12th January 2021, 06:35 AM   #3037
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The latest Covid figures are out for Wales. Unfortunately for The Dons and the B's, the Aneurin Bevan health board is second in the weekly death figures and showing an alarming upward trend

Quote:
The Aneurin Bevan health board, with 68 deaths registered involving Covid, also had its highest number in a single week since the end of April.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55631936
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Old 12th January 2021, 07:00 AM   #3038
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Chartwells are part of Compass Group Compass_Group#Criticisms_of_Compass_GroupWP who have previous form for amongst other things like the horsemeat scandal settled $18 million on its overcharging on NY school meals in 2016. Purely coincidentally I'm sure they have Tory party connections.

This Metro article has photos of some of the parcels contents.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/12/free-...sket-13887331/
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Old 12th January 2021, 08:07 AM   #3039
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On Twitter someone analyzed a food package in calories rather than cost.
Quote:
Seen people working out how much the £30 food box is actually worth but I've looked at it from a nutritional point of view and it comes out at 2958 calories. A growing child should eat between 1500 and 2000 kcal per day. This is for a week.

https://twitter.com/JoeStephenson96/status/1348934091459203075?s=20
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Old 12th January 2021, 08:31 AM   #3040
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
So you based your conclusion of what happened at the time on a posed photo for the media taken after the event?
Numerous press reports say they were drinking cups of peppermint tea, purchased from Starbucks, and that is one reason the police accused them of meeting "for a picnic."

It doesn't matter now - one of the women has received plenty of free publicity for her make-up business, and the police have officially apologized and refunded the fines. A clear message has been sent to everyone that it's perfectly fine to drive a few miles away from home to meet up with a friend at some "exercise spot", and it's okay to stop on the way at any take-away places that are still open to purchase some beverage to enjoy at the meeting.

Another blow to the "stay at home" message, and one that will undoubtedly cost more lives.

Last edited by ceptimus; 12th January 2021 at 08:38 AM.
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