[Continuation] Covid-19 and Politics pt 2 - Page 76

Rolfe · 10th January 2021, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal

Do you think it would be easier to fake up a convincing fake than to steal it from somewhere? Not so sure.

The hazards you mention are a hazard with pretty much all black and grey market items (they might be fake) but still these markets thrive.

I don't know if there is a genuine threat of vaccine being stolen or not, but I wouldn't put it beyond people to try. I mean people were stealing hand sanitiser in April and May FFS.

People were stealing hand sanitiser for their own use, and to flog on the black market. Alcohol-based gels to rub on the hands are a lot harder to fake than vials of "vaccine", paradoxically.

It would depend on who you were trying to convince. Do you know what a vial of each of the different brands of coronavirus vaccine looks like, well enough to spot a fake? I don't. It would be easy enough to fake up a convincing-looking label.

If you're planning to sell to a government that needs to acquire more vaccine you might have to be a bit careful. If you're trying to fool little old ladies into parting with £100 for a home-visit vaccination, not so much.

Captain_Swoop · 10th January 2021, 09:20 AM

Huge crowds lining the streets in Crosby to see the Spurs bus to arrive at the Marine ground.

I assume the lockdown doesn't apply there today.

Police not making any attempts to disperse the crowds, they might as well just let them in to watch the match.

Garrison · 10th January 2021, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Huge crowds lining the streets in Crosby to see the Spurs bus to arrive at the Marine ground.

I assume the lockdown doesn't apply there today.

Police not making any attempts to disperse the crowds, they might as well just let them in to watch the match.

Having seen the Marine ground I doubt you could actually let crowd in. On one side the ball literally lands in someone's back garden if it goes out of play.

The Don · 11th January 2021, 08:16 AM

Hmmmmmmm

I'm not sure that I believe the following news out of Wales:

Quote:

All over-50s and everyone who is at greater risk from Covid will be offered a vaccine by spring, under new Welsh Government plans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55615202

As someone in their early 50's living in Wales, should I read that as saying that I will have had the first vaccine by 21 March this year ?

Or does it mean that I'll have the vaccine by the end of Spring - i.e. 21 June

Or does it simply mean that I will receive a letter by 21 June saying that will be getting the vaccine ?

Reading the announcement literally, it seems to be the first. I think it's more likely to be the last on the grounds that more than 60% of people in Wales fall into the 9 priority groups and that same article says:

Quote:

A vaccine strategy unveiled by Health Minister Vaughan Gething aims to offer all adults a jab by the autumn.

Again with the "offer" and not "deliver".

I also worry whether second vaccinations will ever be given.

Currently a little under 40,000 vaccines a week are being delivered and vaccinating everyone in Wales over 16 twice will require more than 4 million vaccinations.

GlennB · 11th January 2021, 09:11 AM

There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise.

"A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night.

“He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”

Darat · 11th January 2021, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Hmmmmmmm

I'm not sure that I believe the following news out of Wales:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55615202

As someone in their early 50's living in Wales, should I read that as saying that I will have had the first vaccine by 21 March this year ?

Or does it mean that I'll have the vaccine by the end of Spring - i.e. 21 June

Or does it simply mean that I will receive a letter by 21 June saying that will be getting the vaccine ?

Reading the announcement literally, it seems to be the first. I think it's more likely to be the last on the grounds that more than 60% of people in Wales fall into the 9 priority groups and that same article says:

Again with the "offer" and not "deliver".

I also worry whether second vaccinations will ever be given.

Currently a little under 40,000 vaccines a week are being delivered and vaccinating everyone in Wales over 16 twice will require more than 4 million vaccinations.

As ever the words are carefully chosen, they are only now talking about one dose as being “vaccinated”.

Darat · 11th January 2021, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise.

"A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night.

“He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”

The PM has been clear for months that those rules don’t effect him and his mates.

GlennB · 11th January 2021, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

The PM has been clear for months that those rules don’t effect him and his mates.

If it happened as described and he's asked about it it'll be interesting to see how he spins it.

zooterkin · 11th January 2021, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise.

"A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night.

“He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”

Doesn't whether he breached the rules depend on whether he drove or cycled to the park? (I notice that question was not answered, and I would be surprised to hear that he had cycled that far from Downing Street.)

GlennB · 11th January 2021, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Doesn't whether he breached the rules depend on whether he drove or cycled to the park? (I notice that question was not answered, and I would be surprised to hear that he had cycled that far from Downing Street.)

I'd be surprised too, but my understanding is that we've been told to stay close to the village/town/city area where we live when taking exercise. Meanwhile, iirc, some people were hit with fines for driving to a beauty spot in order to have a country walk.

"You may exercise on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area. You cannot meet other people you do not live with, or have not formed a support bubble with, unless for a permitted reason." from gov.uk

Darat · 11th January 2021, 01:47 PM

I really hope they at least don’t totally screw up the vaccination program. Looking at the infection rates and the stupid lockdown (stupid in that it still forces people who cant work from home to mingle during their commutes and in workplaces) if they do then we are really screwed.

Lothian · 11th January 2021, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

I'd be surprised too, but my understanding is that we've been told to stay close to the village/town/city area where we live when taking exercise. Meanwhile, iirc, some people were hit with fines for driving to a beauty spot in order to have a country walk.

I think refunded and police apology provided.

ceptimus · 11th January 2021, 01:53 PM

Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062

zooterkin · 11th January 2021, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by ceptimus

Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062

Where did you get that bit from? I thought they brought the drinks with them; did they buy them on the way?

GlennB · 11th January 2021, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

I think refunded and police apology provided.

Originally Posted by ceptimus

Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062

Right, but still contrary to the guidelines. And if anybody should be setting an example, it's ... ?

(Silly me. Yes, I know)

Captain_Swoop · 11th January 2021, 03:18 PM

If you are middle class the police will apologise to you and let you off if you make a fuss.

Lothian · 11th January 2021, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

If you are middle class the police will apologise to you and let you off if you make a fuss.

If you are upper class police will follow you to stop the oils disturbing your normal life.

Rolfe · 11th January 2021, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

I really hope they at least don’t totally screw up the vaccination program. Looking at the infection rates and the stupid lockdown (stupid in that it still forces people who cant work from home to mingle during their commutes and in workplaces) if they do then we are really screwed.

I'm far from confident that they're not screwing up the vaccination campaign.

They're also not learning the lesson of last summer. The virus was all-but eliminated in Scotland with no community spread over most of the country. That was achieved from an absolutely dreadful position in the spring, and without any vaccination. With proper travel restrictions and border controls the virus could easily have been entirely excluded. Again, that's without any vaccine, in a country still full of susceptible people.

With a vaccine it should be immensely easier to repeat the exercise, and the availability of vaccination also makes the problem of border controls much easier to handle.

However it requires careful planning, and a continuation of rigorous surveillance, testing, contact tracing and (where appropriate) isolation well into the period where the vaccination campaign is well underway, and indeed beyond this.

The prize is a country as covid-free as NZ but with less stringent entry requirements once incoming travellers can be required to be vaccinated. NZ will probably show the way on this once its own domestic vaccination campaign is complete.

I still retain hope that eventually they will get the message that they have to do it, because the countries that called this right have demonstrated unequivocally that there is a covid-free future and people will want that. But it does seem as if, if there is a wrong decision to make, they'll make it. And that goes for most European countries too I'm afraid.

Captain_Swoop · 11th January 2021, 04:13 PM

tomorrows Mail headline. Are we headed for the 3M rule?

That's a joke! The ******* in the supermarket, employees and shoppers alike couldn't resist overtaking me and coming within 50cm of me when I waited for some old biddy to finish reading every packet of ham to give her space.

Darat · 11th January 2021, 04:32 PM

Oh and I know this will shock everyone but England’s world class test and trace system needs a few little tweaks.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ngland-experts

.... There is increasing concern among test-and-trace healthcare professionals about the use of outsourced call centre staff, often employed on minimum wage by telesales firms contracted by Serco, who have been drafted in to carry out detailed interviews with coronavirus patients.
....

Rolfe · 11th January 2021, 05:56 PM

Actually what has shocked me about that is that there's still a test and trace operation going on at all.

ceptimus · 11th January 2021, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Where did you get that bit from? I thought they brought the drinks with them; did they buy them on the way?

I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814

Captain_Swoop · 11th January 2021, 07:43 PM

Boris getting flak for riding 7 miles across London on his bike while exercising over the weekend after telling us all to stay at home

The Don · 12th January 2021, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Boris getting flak for riding 7 miles across London on his bike while exercising over the weekend after telling us all to stay at home

AIUI the "exercise locally and from home" message is just guidance rather than the law. If Boris Johnson cycled from Downing Street then IMO fair do's if he drove then it's yet another example of one set of rules for us and a different one for them.

I'm lucky enough to be able to walk, run and cycle from my front door although my definition of "local" is quite broad because I can easily be 30km from home if I'm cycling or 10km if I'm running.

I note that the local car parks were relatively full over the Christmas period but when Mrs Don and I walked to Tintern on Sunday the place was deserted. There weren't even locals walking around, much less tourists.

zooterkin · 12th January 2021, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by ceptimus

I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814

Was that a photo of the actual event? If so, who took it?

Darat · 12th January 2021, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

AIUI the "exercise locally and from home" message is just guidance rather than the law. If Boris Johnson cycled from Downing Street then IMO fair do's if he drove then it's yet another example of one set of rules for us and a different one for them.

...snip....

And even if it was “technically” fine why do it, surely you’d want to be setting your best example at such a time?

The Don · 12th January 2021, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

And even if it was “technically” fine why do it, surely you’d want to be setting your best example at such a time?

....which prompts the question of why he was there in any case.

I'm sure Boris Johnson has access to a gym and/or a turbo trainer if he wanted to get some exercise.

This looks more like a messianic "moving among his people" stunt to me.

Darat · 12th January 2021, 03:35 AM

Because we can’t give vouchers or money to the poor with kids - they’ll only spend it on flat screen TVs*, we are sending out food parcels. Now I can understand how it could be argued that by sending food parcels we are making sure the “right” food is being sent out and of course using bulk purchasing should mean more and/or better quality food can be sent out that the household couldn’t afford with their £30 budget.

However it appears that from a charge of £30 to schools only around £6 is for the actual food content of the parcel. A footballer who has been very vocal and has had some success in influencing public option about food poverty has several examples on his twitter feed: https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford

Struggling with links to the photos in the twitter feedso with a peg on my nose I’ll use a DM article link that has the photos: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-days.html

*ETA: should make it clear that this is to replace the “free school meals” the kids would usually have at school but with lockdown now don’t. It appears that schools have some choice in whether to provide via parcels or vouchers.

P.J. Denyer · 12th January 2021, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by ceptimus

I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814

So you based your conclusion of what happened at the time on a posed photo for the media taken after the event?

P.J. Denyer · 12th January 2021, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Because we can’t give vouchers or money to the poor with kids - they’ll only spend it on flat screen TVs*, we are sending out food parcels. Now I can understand how it could be argued that by sending food parcels we are making sure the “right” food is being sent out and of course using bulk purchasing should mean more and/or better quality food can be sent out that the household couldn’t afford with their £30 budget.

However it appears that from a charge of £30 to schools only around £6 is for the actual food content of the parcel. A footballer who has been very vocal and has had some success in influencing public option about food poverty has several examples on his twitter feed: https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford

Struggling with links to the photos in the twitter feedso with a peg on my nose I’ll use a DM article link that has the photos: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-days.html

*ETA: should make it clear that this is to replace the “free school meals” the kids would usually have at school but with lockdown now don’t. It appears that schools have some choice in whether to provide via parcels or vouchers.

What's the point of charity if someone isn't getting rich off it?

The Don · 12th January 2021, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

What's the point of charity if someone isn't getting rich off it?

Listening to Radio 4 this morning, they mentioned this story and the company who was responsible for delivering the package said that the contents weren't typical and that they would definitely look into it.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they just thought "****-em, they're just chavs and won't mind any old rubbish".

Darat · 12th January 2021, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Listening to Radio 4 this morning, they mentioned this story and the company who was responsible for delivering the package said that the contents weren't typical and that they would definitely look into it.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they just thought "****-em, they're just chavs and won't mind any old rubbish".

More like the company will have gone through “What is the least amount we have to spend to technically meet the guidelines?” That probably came to £7.50 and then the call went out, “Is there a fine or penalty that will hit the bottom line if we don’t meet the guidelines?” - The answer will be “no” - and the instructions changed to “no more than a fiver”.

Darat · 12th January 2021, 04:23 AM

One thing I did notice is that there was no ingredient lists apart from the pre-packaged stuff. Surely they still have to provide that info?

Wudang · 12th January 2021, 04:46 AM

Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-meal-packages

Quote:

a package, supposedly containing £30 worth of food to last for 10 days, comprising just a loaf of bread, some cheese, a tin of beans, two carrots, two bananas, three apples, two potatoes, a bag of pasta, three Frubes, two Soreen bars and a tomato.

GlennB · 12th January 2021, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Wudang

Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-meal-packages

It should be a breeze to track down the suppliers and fine their arses off, no?

The Don · 12th January 2021, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

It should be a breeze to track down the suppliers and fine their arses off, no?

The supplier in question is Chartwells.

A Google search throws up some interesting tweets showing the kind of food they can deliver to private schools (for a pretty price I'm sure) contrasted to the miserable "hamper" that's generating the headlines.

The directors of Chartwells are doing very nicely (£1m+ renumeration) and I'm sure this contract will do a good job of making the bottom line look good.

I'm sure that they'll say that the £5.22 hamper is an aberration, glossing over the fact that usually they "only" stiff the client by 50% or so

Here's Jay Rayner retweeting a tweet which contrasts £30 of food vs the Chartwells £30 "Hamper"

https://twitter.com/jayrayner1/statu...20418984464385

The Don · 12th January 2021, 06:35 AM

The latest Covid figures are out for Wales. Unfortunately for The Dons and the B's, the Aneurin Bevan health board is second in the weekly death figures and showing an alarming upward trend

Quote:

The Aneurin Bevan health board, with 68 deaths registered involving Covid, also had its highest number in a single week since the end of April.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55631936

Wudang · 12th January 2021, 07:00 AM

Chartwells are part of Compass Group Compass_Group#Criticisms_of_Compass_Group^WP who have previous form for amongst other things like the horsemeat scandal settled $18 million on its overcharging on NY school meals in 2016. Purely coincidentally I'm sure they have Tory party connections.

This Metro article has photos of some of the parcels contents.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/12/free-...sket-13887331/

Wudang · 12th January 2021, 08:07 AM

On Twitter someone analyzed a food package in calories rather than cost.

Quote:

Seen people working out how much the £30 food box is actually worth but I've looked at it from a nutritional point of view and it comes out at 2958 calories. A growing child should eat between 1500 and 2000 kcal per day. This is for a week.

https://twitter.com/JoeStephenson96/status/1348934091459203075?s=20

ceptimus · 12th January 2021, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

So you based your conclusion of what happened at the time on a posed photo for the media taken after the event?

Numerous press reports say they were drinking cups of peppermint tea, purchased from Starbucks, and that is one reason the police accused them of meeting "for a picnic."

It doesn't matter now - one of the women has received plenty of free publicity for her make-up business, and the police have officially apologized and refunded the fines. A clear message has been sent to everyone that it's perfectly fine to drive a few miles away from home to meet up with a friend at some "exercise spot", and it's okay to stop on the way at any take-away places that are still open to purchase some beverage to enjoy at the meeting.

Another blow to the "stay at home" message, and one that will undoubtedly cost more lives.

10th January 2021, 07:18 AM	#3001
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 47,181	Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal Do you think it would be easier to fake up a convincing fake than to steal it from somewhere? Not so sure. The hazards you mention are a hazard with pretty much all black and grey market items (they might be fake) but still these markets thrive. I don't know if there is a genuine threat of vaccine being stolen or not, but I wouldn't put it beyond people to try. I mean people were stealing hand sanitiser in April and May FFS. People were stealing hand sanitiser for their own use, and to flog on the black market. Alcohol-based gels to rub on the hands are a lot harder to fake than vials of "vaccine", paradoxically. It would depend on who you were trying to convince. Do you know what a vial of each of the different brands of coronavirus vaccine looks like, well enough to spot a fake? I don't. It would be easy enough to fake up a convincing-looking label. If you're planning to sell to a government that needs to acquire more vaccine you might have to be a bit careful. If you're trying to fool little old ladies into parting with £100 for a home-visit vaccination, not so much.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. Last edited by Rolfe; 10th January 2021 at 07:21 AM.

10th January 2021, 12:28 PM	#3003
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,560	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Huge crowds lining the streets in Crosby to see the Spurs bus to arrive at the Marine ground. I assume the lockdown doesn't apply there today. Police not making any attempts to disperse the crowds, they might as well just let them in to watch the match. Having seen the Marine ground I doubt you could actually let crowd in. On one side the ball literally lands in someone's back garden if it goes out of play.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

11th January 2021, 09:11 AM	#3005
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,519	There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise. "A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night. “He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.”
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

11th January 2021, 10:47 AM	#3006
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Originally Posted by The Don Hmmmmmmm I'm not sure that I believe the following news out of Wales: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55615202 As someone in their early 50's living in Wales, should I read that as saying that I will have had the first vaccine by 21 March this year ? Or does it mean that I'll have the vaccine by the end of Spring - i.e. 21 June Or does it simply mean that I will receive a letter by 21 June saying that will be getting the vaccine ? Reading the announcement literally, it seems to be the first. I think it's more likely to be the last on the grounds that more than 60% of people in Wales fall into the 9 priority groups and that same article says: Again with the "offer" and not "deliver". I also worry whether second vaccinations will ever be given. Currently a little under 40,000 vaccines a week are being delivered and vaccinating everyone in Wales over 16 twice will require more than 4 million vaccinations. As ever the words are carefully chosen, they are only now talking about one dose as being “vaccinated”.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

11th January 2021, 10:49 AM	#3007
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Originally Posted by GlennB There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise. "A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night. “He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.” The PM has been clear for months that those rules don’t effect him and his mates.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

10th January 2021, 09:20 AM	#3002
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	Huge crowds lining the streets in Crosby to see the Spurs bus to arrive at the Marine ground. I assume the lockdown doesn't apply there today. Police not making any attempts to disperse the crowds, they might as well just let them in to watch the match.

11th January 2021, 08:16 AM	#3004
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,585	Hmmmmmmm I'm not sure that I believe the following news out of Wales: Quote: All over-50s and everyone who is at greater risk from Covid will be offered a vaccine by spring, under new Welsh Government plans. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55615202 As someone in their early 50's living in Wales, should I read that as saying that I will have had the first vaccine by 21 March this year ? Or does it mean that I'll have the vaccine by the end of Spring - i.e. 21 June Or does it simply mean that I will receive a letter by 21 June saying that will be getting the vaccine ? Reading the announcement literally, it seems to be the first. I think it's more likely to be the last on the grounds that more than 60% of people in Wales fall into the 9 priority groups and that same article says: Quote: A vaccine strategy unveiled by Health Minister Vaughan Gething aims to offer all adults a jab by the autumn. Again with the "offer" and not "deliver". I also worry whether second vaccinations will ever be given. Currently a little under 40,000 vaccines a week are being delivered and vaccinating everyone in Wales over 16 twice will require more than 4 million vaccinations.

11th January 2021, 11:06 AM	#3008
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,519	Originally Posted by Darat The PM has been clear for months that those rules don’t effect him and his mates. If it happened as described and he's asked about it it'll be interesting to see how he spins it.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

11th January 2021, 12:17 PM	#3009
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,808	Originally Posted by GlennB There's a report in that Johnson was spotted cycling on Sunday in London's Olympic park (with an entourage of presumed security people on bikes), 7 or so miles from his residence at #10. If so, this would be in defiance of covid advice on taking exercise. "A source told the Evening Standard the PM was exercising, adding: “But he did note how busy the park was and he commented on it at the meeting last night. “He was concerned about if people were following the rules and was concerned after his cycle ride around the park.” Doesn't whether he breached the rules depend on whether he drove or cycled to the park? (I notice that question was not answered, and I would be surprised to hear that he had cycled that far from Downing Street.)
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

11th January 2021, 01:43 PM	#3010
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,519	Originally Posted by zooterkin Doesn't whether he breached the rules depend on whether he drove or cycled to the park? (I notice that question was not answered, and I would be surprised to hear that he had cycled that far from Downing Street.) I'd be surprised too, but my understanding is that we've been told to stay close to the village/town/city area where we live when taking exercise. Meanwhile, iirc, some people were hit with fines for driving to a beauty spot in order to have a country walk. "You may exercise on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area. You cannot meet other people you do not live with, or have not formed a support bubble with, unless for a permitted reason." from gov.uk
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

11th January 2021, 01:47 PM	#3011
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	I really hope they at least don’t totally screw up the vaccination program. Looking at the infection rates and the stupid lockdown (stupid in that it still forces people who cant work from home to mingle during their commutes and in workplaces) if they do then we are really screwed.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 11th January 2021 at 01:48 PM. Reason: In

11th January 2021, 01:48 PM	#3012
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 16,217	Originally Posted by GlennB I'd be surprised too, but my understanding is that we've been told to stay close to the village/town/city area where we live when taking exercise. Meanwhile, iirc, some people were hit with fines for driving to a beauty spot in order to have a country walk. I think refunded and police apology provided.

11th January 2021, 01:53 PM	#3013
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,460	Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,460

11th January 2021, 02:47 PM	#3014
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,808	Originally Posted by ceptimus Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062 Where did you get that bit from? I thought they brought the drinks with them; did they buy them on the way?
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

11th January 2021, 02:49 PM	#3015
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,519	Originally Posted by Lothian I think refunded and police apology provided. Originally Posted by ceptimus Apparently it's officially okay to drive 5 miles to meet your friend at some beauty spot for a cup of takeaway hot beverage, a walk, and a chat. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062 Right, but still contrary to the guidelines. And if anybody should be setting an example, it's ... ? (Silly me. Yes, I know)
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

11th January 2021, 03:18 PM	#3016
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	If you are middle class the police will apologise to you and let you off if you make a fuss.

11th January 2021, 03:28 PM	#3017
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 16,217	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop If you are middle class the police will apologise to you and let you off if you make a fuss. If you are upper class police will follow you to stop the oils disturbing your normal life.

11th January 2021, 03:49 PM	#3018
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 47,181	Originally Posted by Darat I really hope they at least don’t totally screw up the vaccination program. Looking at the infection rates and the stupid lockdown (stupid in that it still forces people who cant work from home to mingle during their commutes and in workplaces) if they do then we are really screwed. I'm far from confident that they're not screwing up the vaccination campaign. They're also not learning the lesson of last summer. The virus was all-but eliminated in Scotland with no community spread over most of the country. That was achieved from an absolutely dreadful position in the spring, and without any vaccination. With proper travel restrictions and border controls the virus could easily have been entirely excluded. Again, that's without any vaccine, in a country still full of susceptible people. With a vaccine it should be immensely easier to repeat the exercise, and the availability of vaccination also makes the problem of border controls much easier to handle. However it requires careful planning, and a continuation of rigorous surveillance, testing, contact tracing and (where appropriate) isolation well into the period where the vaccination campaign is well underway, and indeed beyond this. The prize is a country as covid-free as NZ but with less stringent entry requirements once incoming travellers can be required to be vaccinated. NZ will probably show the way on this once its own domestic vaccination campaign is complete. I still retain hope that eventually they will get the message that they have to do it, because the countries that called this right have demonstrated unequivocally that there is a covid-free future and people will want that. But it does seem as if, if there is a wrong decision to make, they'll make it. And that goes for most European countries too I'm afraid.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

11th January 2021, 04:13 PM	#3019
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	tomorrows Mail headline. Are we headed for the 3M rule? That's a joke! The ******* in the supermarket, employees and shoppers alike couldn't resist overtaking me and coming within 50cm of me when I waited for some old biddy to finish reading every packet of ham to give her space.

11th January 2021, 04:32 PM	#3020
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Oh and I know this will shock everyone but England’s world class test and trace system needs a few little tweaks..... https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ngland-experts .... There is increasing concern among test-and-trace healthcare professionals about the use of outsourced call centre staff, often employed on minimum wage by telesales firms contracted by Serco, who have been drafted in to carry out detailed interviews with coronavirus patients. ....
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11th January 2021, 05:56 PM	#3021
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 47,181	Actually what has shocked me about that is that there's still a test and trace operation going on at all.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

11th January 2021, 07:36 PM	#3022
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,460	Originally Posted by zooterkin Where did you get that bit from? I thought they brought the drinks with them; did they buy them on the way? I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,460	Last edited by ceptimus; 11th January 2021 at 07:42 PM.

11th January 2021, 07:43 PM	#3023
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	Boris getting flak for riding 7 miles across London on his bike while exercising over the weekend after telling us all to stay at home

12th January 2021, 01:19 AM	#3024
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,585	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Boris getting flak for riding 7 miles across London on his bike while exercising over the weekend after telling us all to stay at home AIUI the "exercise locally and from home" message is just guidance rather than the law. If Boris Johnson cycled from Downing Street then IMO fair do's if he drove then it's yet another example of one set of rules for us and a different one for them. I'm lucky enough to be able to walk, run and cycle from my front door although my definition of "local" is quite broad because I can easily be 30km from home if I'm cycling or 10km if I'm running. I note that the local car parks were relatively full over the Christmas period but when Mrs Don and I walked to Tintern on Sunday the place was deserted. There weren't even locals walking around, much less tourists.

12th January 2021, 01:36 AM	#3025
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,808	Originally Posted by ceptimus I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814 Was that a photo of the actual event? If so, who took it?
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

12th January 2021, 02:46 AM	#3026
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Originally Posted by The Don AIUI the "exercise locally and from home" message is just guidance rather than the law. If Boris Johnson cycled from Downing Street then IMO fair do's if he drove then it's yet another example of one set of rules for us and a different one for them. ...snip.... And even if it was “technically” fine why do it, surely you’d want to be setting your best example at such a time?
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12th January 2021, 02:57 AM	#3027
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,585	Originally Posted by Darat And even if it was “technically” fine why do it, surely you’d want to be setting your best example at such a time? ....which prompts the question of why he was there in any case. I'm sure Boris Johnson has access to a gym and/or a turbo trainer if he wanted to get some exercise. This looks more like a messianic "moving among his people" stunt to me.

12th January 2021, 03:35 AM	#3028
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Because we can’t give vouchers or money to the poor with kids - they’ll only spend it on flat screen TVs, we are sending out food parcels. Now I can understand how it could be argued that by sending food parcels we are making sure the “right” food is being sent out and of course using bulk purchasing should mean more and/or better quality food can be sent out that the household couldn’t afford with their £30 budget. However it appears that from a charge of £30 to schools only around £6 is for the actual food content of the parcel. A footballer who has been very vocal and has had some success in influencing public option about food poverty has several examples on his twitter feed: https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford Struggling with links to the photos in the twitter feedso with a peg on my nose I’ll use a DM article link that has the photos: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-days.html ETA: should make it clear that this is to replace the “free school meals” the kids would usually have at school but with lockdown now don’t. It appears that schools have some choice in whether to provide via parcels or vouchers.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 12th January 2021 at 03:40 AM.

12th January 2021, 04:04 AM	#3029
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,989	Originally Posted by ceptimus I assumed from the photos that these two snowflakes had bought them. But I suppose there's a faint chance that they both chose to reuse disposable Starbucks cups to transport their home-made drinks to their meeting place. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814 So you based your conclusion of what happened at the time on a posed photo for the media taken after the event?
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,989	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

12th January 2021, 04:05 AM	#3030
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,989	Originally Posted by Darat Because we can’t give vouchers or money to the poor with kids - they’ll only spend it on flat screen TVs, we are sending out food parcels. Now I can understand how it could be argued that by sending food parcels we are making sure the “right” food is being sent out and of course using bulk purchasing should mean more and/or better quality food can be sent out that the household couldn’t afford with their £30 budget. However it appears that from a charge of £30 to schools only around £6 is for the actual food content of the parcel. A footballer who has been very vocal and has had some success in influencing public option about food poverty has several examples on his twitter feed: https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford Struggling with links to the photos in the twitter feedso with a peg on my nose I’ll use a DM article link that has the photos: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hree-days.html ETA: should make it clear that this is to replace the “free school meals” the kids would usually have at school but with lockdown now don’t. It appears that schools have some choice in whether to provide via parcels or vouchers. What's the point of charity if someone isn't getting rich off it?
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,989	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

12th January 2021, 04:17 AM	#3031
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,585	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer What's the point of charity if someone isn't getting rich off it? Listening to Radio 4 this morning, they mentioned this story and the company who was responsible for delivering the package said that the contents weren't typical and that they would definitely look into it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they just thought "****-em, they're just chavs and won't mind any old rubbish".

12th January 2021, 04:22 AM	#3032
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Originally Posted by The Don Listening to Radio 4 this morning, they mentioned this story and the company who was responsible for delivering the package said that the contents weren't typical and that they would definitely look into it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they just thought "***-em, they're just chavs and won't mind any old rubbish". More like the company will have gone through “What is the least amount we have to spend to technically* meet the guidelines?” That probably came to £7.50 and then the call went out, “Is there a fine or penalty that will hit the bottom line if we don’t meet the guidelines?” - The answer will be “no” - and the instructions changed to “no more than a fiver”.
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12th January 2021, 04:23 AM	#3033
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	One thing I did notice is that there was no ingredient lists apart from the pre-packaged stuff. Surely they still have to provide that info?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 12th January 2021 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Their you go

12th January 2021, 04:46 AM	#3034
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 13,572	Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-meal-packages Quote: a package, supposedly containing £30 worth of food to last for 10 days, comprising just a loaf of bread, some cheese, a tin of beans, two carrots, two bananas, three apples, two potatoes, a bag of pasta, three Frubes, two Soreen bars and a tomato.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

12th January 2021, 06:08 AM	#3035
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,519	Originally Posted by Wudang Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-meal-packages It should be a breeze to track down the suppliers and fine their arses off, no?
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut