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#361 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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I could be wrong, as I'm not a close follower of this case, but when he left Sweden to come to the UK wasn't it the case that there were no charges against him? There had been charges against him, but they were dropped. Once he was in the UK charges were brought again and he refused to travel back to Sweden to face them - although he did offer to talk with the prosecutors via Skype from inside the Swedish embassy in London. Then came the extradition order and European arrest warrant, his arrest in London, him bailing himself out, and his asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy.
So while I don't disagree that he's acting like someone who is afraid of facing charges of rape in Sweden rather than someone who is afraid of extradition to the US from Sweden, I do think that characterising his movement from Sweden to the UK as "flee[ing]" is unwarranted. Although, as I say, I'm not overly familiar with the case, so am happy to be corrected on any facts I may have got wrong or misinterpreted. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#362 |
Embarrasingly illiterate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,400
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Assange is nothing more than a prima donna who has turned into a bit of a laughing stock, hiding from charges of committing rape.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 |
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#363 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,365
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Well, you could run into some discussion on what constitutes "charges", but if we skip that discussion a good place to check out the timeline is the "Agreed Facts" from the UK Supreme Court. You can find them at https://www.scribd.com/document/8091...s-Assange-Case
Originally Posted by Agreed facts
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#364 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,518
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Fair enough, thanks for the correction. It seems I had the timeline somewhat wrong.
However, I think the point remains valid: The UK is far more friendly with the US than Sweden. Assange's movements during this period are movements towards the US, politically and diplomatically speaking. They are not the movements of a man who fears persecution by the US. Ultimately, they are the movements of a man who fears prosecution for rape charges in Sweden. |
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#365 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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That looks to me like he ran away from an interrogation, but left the country 3 days before his counsel was informed that he had an arrest warrant out for him. That certainly makes the word "flee[ing]" more apt, but I don't think it's fair to say that he ran away from an arrest warrant.
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#366 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 859
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#367 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 859
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Annexing countries with referencumand providing them with equal status, minorities protection is a good thing, Invading countries, killing people and then leave them in the **** with ISIS is a bad thing
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#368 |
Wicked Lovely
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,810
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Um, yes there is. It's called "the law", and it's readily available should you choose to search for it online. It's called the Extradition for Criminal Offenses Act. Here, I'll even quote the relevant passage for you:
Quote:
Quote:
Right now, Assange is literal poison to the US Government; any effort made to capture him would be seen by the majority of the world as the US pursuing a vendetta and would make us look worse than we already do, to the point that we would likely see people pulling out of trade agreements and alliances in protest of our actions in pursuing this man for no legitimate reason. If you approach the situation logically, this is self-evident. But then again, logic was never the strong point for conspiracy theorists, so I can see how it would be difficult for you. ![]() |
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#369 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 859
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I am absolutely sure the CIA plays clean and can not find one, two or ten women that can testify under oath that Assange has repeatedly raped them in the US and therefore an extradition is needed
Many were tortured and sent to Guantanamo without a trial and without evidence The US needs to punish the people who stand out and denounce Sorry but you live in la-la land Do you think that trade arrangements are created on the basis of human rights? HAHAHAHA!! Yech! Nobody would care if the United States put Assange in prison for te next 50 years Many people in the US will be happy |
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#370 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#371 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 859
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#372 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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Have you considered the possibility that their laws on protecting whistleblowers would actually protect whistleblower Assange?
Quote:
Seems like it would be an excellent move on the US's behalf precisely because he's still in the embassy. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#373 |
Wicked Lovely
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,810
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No, I live in a land called the United States of America. And I happen to work for a company that does contract work for the government, which puts me in close proximity to see how government actually works. Currently, no one in the US Government could give two ***** about Assange and his paranoia; we're rather occupied with far more important things than one idiot's egomania and certainty that the US Government would literally drop everything else if they could just get their hands on his carcass. Frankly, Wikileaks itself occupies more attention than Assange does, and even that is a mere fraction of a percent when placed in context with the overarching issues occupying the attention of policymakers and politicians. Sorry bro, but contrary to your (and apparently Assange's) belief, he just ain't that important and we aren't going to stretch our necks out in order to get our hands on whatever dubious knowledge he claims to have or to punish him for something that our Department of Justice and our Attorney General have said over and over that we don't have anything to charge him with. We have far more important things to worry about than illegally punishing someone for something that, for him, wasn't even against our laws.
And before you point out that the CIA has secret torture facilities and other blah blah blah, I would remind you that the US Military has one of, if not the best trained covert forces in the world and it is extremely easy for them to covertly infiltrate a location and set up an accident which would either kill Assange outright or force him from the Embassy and therefore into custody, and yet no one has done so. Possibly because, shocker alert, NO ONE CARES ABOUT HIM OVER HERE. The only country currently interested in grabbing him for violations of their laws is Sweden, and as I have pointed out, their law quite strictly prevents their extraditing a prisoner for political reasons, so we would not seek to grab him that way because Sweden would not cooperate. Right now, the ONLY people who care about Assange being forced back to the US are the people who've drunk his Kool-aid and are convinced that the "ebil guvmint" are literally foaming at the mouth to get their mitts on him. Clearly you are in their ranks, so nothing I say is going to get through to you, but hopefully saner minds out there will read and comprehend what I and others have said about the situation and realize that Assange was a blip on the screen for the US that has since disappeared and we no longer care about him. Enjoy your paranoia. |
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#374 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,518
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And that is why you fail.
In fact, Sweden's accommodating laws and track record in harboring American traitors is an excellent reason for Assange to establish himself and his publication there. Step one of your idea, and already your idea is a failure. You should try reading the thread. It might give you some idea to work with. At least it will be better than having no idea. |
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#375 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 859
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#376 |
Embarrasingly illiterate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,400
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 |
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#377 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,511
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"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi Wollen owns the stage |
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#378 |
Embarrasingly illiterate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,400
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__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 |
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#379 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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Of course, for a hypothesis to be compelling it has to account for all the evidence, including the fact that Assange was visiting Sweden in order to apply for residency so that he could base Wikileaks there. If you can't account for that, then you have no cogent hypothesis.
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#380 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,365
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#381 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,576
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That part of your argument is weak sauce.
US courts routinely assert jurisdiction when there's only a small link to the USA. The victim is an American? Check, jurisdiction. The accused is American? Check, jurisdiction. The conspirators to the crime had one meeting in a NY diner? Check, jurisdiction. Assange not being American only really protects him against the crime of treason - after all, you can only commit treason against your own country. Far more important is that Holder said himself he sees no crime as Assange only published what someone else (Manning) leaked. And that Assange's own movements betray that it's a load of bollocks: you don't run away from the USA by moving to the country that is the most friendly to the USA. |
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
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#382 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,832
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#383 |
Banned
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Posts: 859
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#384 |
Banned
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#385 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Currently Dismembered
Posts: 8,832
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"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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#386 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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I'm focusing on Assange's opinion of the likelihood of extradition from Sweden changing within the course of a fortnight from wanting to live there because he knew it was one of the safest places he could be to putting himself in confinement in order to avoid going there because he claims it's one of the least safe places he could be. The only significant event to occur during this time, even according to him, is the accusation of rape. Swedish law concerning extradition and protection of whistleblowers has not changed.
You can ignore this all you like, using whatever excuse you like, but these facts remain and your failure to account for them is a fatal blow to your argument. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#387 |
High Priest of Ed
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,677
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Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
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#388 |
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
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#389 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,518
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#390 | ||
Winking at the Moon
Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 13,042
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Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader |
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#391 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,518
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#392 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,518
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#393 |
BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 12,156
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I think this is the 8th time I've posted this
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/me...julian-assange |
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"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott. |
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#394 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,015
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__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#395 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,365
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And to add to that one, here's a link to a post I did quite some time ago, should those arguments pop up again...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...30#post8581330 |
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#396 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,365
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Well, not that the sockpuppet is gone from the thread, I guess it's back to waiting for the interview at the embassy. Of course that won't happen until
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#397 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 2,365
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The interview has now been confirmed for Nov 14th according to a press release from the prosecutors office.
The interview will be handled by a Ecuadorian prosecutor, but a Swedish prosecutor and a Swedish police will be present. DNA testing will be done, if JA approves. The Ecuadorian prosecutor will deliver a written account to the Swedish prosecutors office some unspecified time after the interview, and based on that the Swedish prosecutors office will make a decision on how to proceed. |
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#398 |
Embarrasingly illiterate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,400
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The dude has turned into a parody
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__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000 |
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#399 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,124
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The interview has been concluded after a day and a half.
"No Comment" from the Swedish prosecutor. A statement (as you said) to be produced "sometime". Assange's mouthpiece is having her cake and eating it too. He is innocent - An "impartial and objective consideration" of Assange's evidence would lead to the prosecutors dropping their action, she said.But, like Trump's challenge of election fraud, if the lose, Ms Robinson confirmed that Assange's legal team intended to use the absence of his Swedish lawyer at the interview to prevent prosecutors building their case.Assange was represented by an Ecuadorian lawyer. So it wasn't as though he had no legal representation during the questioning - just not his pet Swedish one. |
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"A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald |
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#400 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,680
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The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping. |
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