[Continuation] Brexit: Now What? Turning it up to 11 - Page 76

GlennB · 4th May 2022, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

That's hardly surprising.

Most of the hardcore "Gammons" living in the EU would never have bothered to acquire residency for the EU country in which they were living either pre or post Brexit and as a result have ended up back in the UK.

Those still living in the EU are likely to be much better integrated (though I'm sure that there are exceptions in places like the Costas) and as a result have a dimmer view of the UK

Absolutely. I know of a few ex expats (not Gammons, but I'm sure it applies in spades to Gammons) in Greece who played fast and loose over residency, driving licence, adhering to the proper annual tax return process, legalisation of improper home alterations, and other stuff. Two simply abandoned very nice houses as the bureaucracy and retrospective fines would have made their lives a misery.

It was hard enough for us to sell up and leave, and we'd been following the rules almost religiously.

Captain_Swoop · 4th May 2022, 08:20 AM

Nigel Farage says

Quote:

Sadly it looks as though the Rwanda policy is about to rebound on the government.

Several legal challenges are already underway.

Unless Brexit is completed and we leave the ECHR, 100,000 migrants will arrive in 2022 and the Red Wall will collapse.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ntinue-record/

Does he really think the ECHR is part of the EU?

Also, remember when he said millions of Romanians were going to move here?

Mojo · 4th May 2022, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Nigel Farage says

Quote:

Sadly it looks as though the Rwanda policy is about to rebound on the government.

Several legal challenges are already underway.

Unless Brexit is completed and we leave the ECHR, 100,000 migrants will arrive in 2022 and the Red Wall will collapse.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ntinue-record/

But of course, Brexit was never about xenophobia, was it?

Quote:

Does he really think the ECHR is part of the EU?

Possibly (I’ve met plenty of lawyers who seemed confused about the distinction), but perhaps he just realises that being signed up to the ECHR is effectively a condition of EU membership.

Quote:

Also, remember when he said millions of Romanians were going to move here?

See above.

Captain_Swoop · 5th May 2022, 02:07 AM

Is this a Brexit thing?

The Daily Telegraph is puffing up and supporting the demand for an inquiry into the French, Exocet missiles that sank HMS Sheffield during the Falklands War 40 years ago.

Apparently the claim is that the missiles had a secret, remote control 'kill switch' that would have disabled them if it was activated.
France says there was no such thing on the missiles.

Lord Tebbit and David Mellor are wading in, the French have to 'explain themselves' and tell us if they 'withheld information' about the missiles 'secrets' from us.

Darat · 5th May 2022, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Nigel Farage says

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ntinue-record/

Does he really think the ECHR is part of the EU?

Also, remember when he said millions of Romanians were going to move here?

It has "Europe" in its name therefore it is an abomination.

Dragon · 5th May 2022, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

It has "Europe" in its name therefore it is an abomination.

It has long suited the Brexiters to conflate the ECHR with the European Court of Justice and the EU in general.
Farage knows exactly what he’s doing.

Captain_Swoop · 6th May 2022, 09:30 AM

Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce

Sunlit Uplands

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...n-radioactive/

SteveAitch · 6th May 2022, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce

Sunlit Uplands

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...n-radioactive/

Self-cooking veg?

That you can find in the dark?

catsmate · 6th May 2022, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce

Sunlit Uplands

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...n-radioactive/

Well
[1] The risk was infinitesimal
[2] Does the UK actually import anything produced near Fukushima?
[3] You might want to be more concerned about imports from ~~the USSR~~ Russia.

Captain_Swoop · 6th May 2022, 12:07 PM

Point is, it's another relaxation of standards.

P.J. Denyer · 6th May 2022, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Point is, it's another relaxation of standards.

Yes, but think how much electricity we can save lighting our home with glowing turnips.

Cosmic Yak · 7th May 2022, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Well
[1] The risk was infinitesimal
[2] Does the UK actually import anything produced near Fukushima?
[3] You might want to be more concerned about imports from ~~the USSR~~ Russia.

Also, the ban on imports has been lifted, or restrictions relaxed, by many other countries, including the US and also the EU. Brexit is not a factor in this decision.
The levels of radiation in food from Fukushima are far below general background levels in the UK, which is why the ban has been lifted. No need for Luddism here.

KDLarsen · 10th May 2022, 12:38 AM

Now that the DUP has lost the election and opted for the dignified response of taking their ball and going home, Liz Truss appears ready to reward them for doing so:

Quote:

Liz Truss is reportedly preparing draft legislation that would unilaterally scrap key parts of the Northern Ireland protocol removing the need for checks on goods between Britain and Northern Ireland.

No bill is expected to be announced in the Queen’s speech on Tuesday but the UK foreign secretary is reported to have asked officials to prepare the draft, which would put the UK in breach of its treaty obligations.

As well as scrapping checks, the draft legislation would also take away powers of the European court of justice and remove all requirement for Northern Irish businesses to follow EU regulations.

The Guardian: Liz Truss ‘preparing to tear up Northern Ireland protocol’

The Don · 10th May 2022, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Now that the DUP has lost the election and opted for the dignified response of taking their ball and going home, Liz Truss appears ready to reward them for doing so:

The Guardian: Liz Truss ‘preparing to tear up Northern Ireland protocol’

I can see that ending well.

If Truss is going to scrap checks between NI and the rest of the UK then the EU isn't going to be sanguine about check-free access to Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement will be in jeopardy which in turn will make the US very unhappy indeed.

IMO the scrapping of the NI Protocol isn't a reward to the DUP. The British government always intended to renege on large chunks of the Brexit agreements and this just provides a handy catalyst for this particular element.

It's a sign of this government's deluded exceptionalism that they think it's fine to unilaterally renege on international treaties when they're providing active support to a country which is batting an invading one which is doing exactly the same thing.

Sadly, it seems that one of the primary aims of the government is to screw things up so badly with the EU that the UK will never be considered for membership ever again. It's like the process of rail privatisation where the primary objective wasn't to provide a better service to passengers or a more reliable and robust rail infrastructure, it was simply to make renationalisation impossible.

Captain_Swoop · 10th May 2022, 02:26 AM

They do know it will make every country we are looking at signing treaties with think twice?

Trigger the penalty clauses and blame our poverty on the EU.
People did vote to be poorer, so it’s only fair to make sure they are.

Captain_Swoop · 10th May 2022, 02:32 AM

Last Tweek 60% in NI voted for parties who support the protocol

The Don · 10th May 2022, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Last Tweek 60% in NI voted for parties who support the protocol

....and ?

Nearly 56% voted to remain in the EU - look where that got them.

The Westminster government only cares about Northern Ireland when it suits them to (like when it needs DUP support), otherwise they'll just use NI to achieve their own ends.

Darat · 10th May 2022, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

I can see that ending well.

If Truss is going to scrap checks between NI and the rest of the UK then the EU isn't going to be sanguine about check-free access to Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement will be in jeopardy which in turn will make the US very unhappy indeed.

IMO the scrapping of the NI Protocol isn't a reward to the DUP. The British government always intended to renege on large chunks of the Brexit agreements and this just provides a handy catalyst for this particular element.

It's a sign of this government's deluded exceptionalism that they think it's fine to unilaterally renege on international treaties when they're providing active support to a country which is batting an invading one which is doing exactly the same thing.

Sadly, it seems that one of the primary aims of the government is to screw things up so badly with the EU that the UK will never be considered for membership ever again. It's like the process of rail privatisation where the primary objective wasn't to provide a better service to passengers or a more reliable and robust rail infrastructure, it was simply to make renationalisation impossible.

I don't think they did, it's an example of Hanlon's razor - they hadn't a clue what they signed, what it would mean and so on, all they knew was that needed to spin "Brexit is done!"

Wudang · 10th May 2022, 06:47 AM

I'm reminded of the old phrase "We'll burn that bridge when we come to it."

Cosmic Yak · 10th May 2022, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

I can see that ending well.

If Truss is going to scrap checks between NI and the rest of the UK then the EU isn't going to be sanguine about check-free access to Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement will be in jeopardy which in turn will make the US very unhappy indeed.

IMO the scrapping of the NI Protocol isn't a reward to the DUP. The British government always intended to renege on large chunks of the Brexit agreements and this just provides a handy catalyst for this particular element.

It's a sign of this government's deluded exceptionalism that they think it's fine to unilaterally renege on international treaties when they're providing active support to a country which is batting an invading one which is doing exactly the same thing.

Sadly, it seems that one of the primary aims of the government is to screw things up so badly with the EU that the UK will never be considered for membership ever again. It's like the process of rail privatisation where the primary objective wasn't to provide a better service to passengers or a more reliable and robust rail infrastructure, it was simply to make renationalisation impossible.

Curious claim. On what are you basing this?

Captain_Swoop · 10th May 2022, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Curious claim. On what are you basing this?

On them not properly implementing any of it.

Darat · 10th May 2022, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Wudang

I'm reminded of the old phrase "We'll burn that bridge when we come to it."

Considering Johnson's track record with bridges that seems quite apt!

The Don · 10th May 2022, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Curious claim. On what are you basing this?

The repeated demands by the UK government to renegotiate the Brexit deals.

Jacob Rees-Moggs claims that the UK can do whatever it wants.

Dominic Cummings' claims that Boris Johnson always planned to renege on the NI Protocol.

...and as Captain Swoop points out, the UK hasn't even done the minimum required to live up to our side of the agreement.

P.J. Denyer · 10th May 2022, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

I don't think they did, it's an example of Hanlon's razor - they hadn't a clue what they signed, what it would mean and so on, all they knew was that needed to spin "Brexit is done!"

I think you're both half right, they didn't go in with the intention of renaging, but an attitude of "get something signed & if it doesn't work for us we'll renague". Now I think they're going to try & start a trade war with the EU to reform the Brexit Battle Lines that worked for them last time.

Wudang · 10th May 2022, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

I think you're both half right, they didn't go in with the intention of renaging, but an attitude of "get something signed & if it doesn't work for us we'll renague". Now I think they're going to try & start a trade war with the EU to reform the Brexit Battle Lines that worked for them last time.

I think you're looking for a long term plan where there isn't one. I don't think there is a strategy, just tactics to get tomorrow's headline.

jimbob · 10th May 2022, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wudang

I'm reminded of the old phrase "We'll burn that bridge when we come to it."

Sorry,for a moment I thought you were channelling the Russian military in planning one of their advances backwards to the East.

Lothian · 10th May 2022, 03:18 PM

I don't think they intended to renage. It is a given that the leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. The leave politicians didn't know what they were standing for either. That is still the case. They simply don't understand how trade and borders work.

They tell the negotiators what they want, the negotiators who do understand how it all works deliver what is asked for but the leavers don't understand the consequences of their request.

So we get

"We want a deal with no land border in Ireland."

"Done"

What do mean the whole of the UK will remain part of the EU fiscal and customs territory? We don't want that. Let them have Ireland but we want to set our own rules on the mainland"

"Done"

What do you mean we have to have a border between us and Northern Ireland? Ok agree a border and we will do the required checks"

"Done"

"What do you mean we really have to do the checks? It is an internal border this is crazy! Rip up the protocol and get rid of the border in the Irish sea.

"Done"

"What do you mean the EU have reinstated the land border, Why have they done that?"

P.J. Denyer · 11th May 2022, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by Wudang

I think you're looking for a long term plan where there isn't one. I don't think there is a strategy, just tactics to get tomorrow's headline.

I wouldn't call any of it 'long term' planning, it's what they think will get them through the immediate crisis without any thought for the knock on effects that will become the next crisis. "That's tomorrow Boris's problem".

Lothian · 11th May 2022, 11:35 PM

Boris has had advise that he can override his brexit deal as it has created public unrest.

It is almost as if the puplic didn't know what they were voting for.

Norman Alexander · 12th May 2022, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

Boris has had advise that he can override his brexit deal as it has created public unrest.

It is almost as if the puplic didn't know what they were voting for.

It seems that Boris was just blindly fishing for a solution out of a hat without really trying to even understand the consequences of his choice. Having A solution at all was the point. Having an even half-way workable, meh-it-will-do-for-now solution was not.

The Don · 12th May 2022, 01:01 AM

The UK Attorney General has ruled that it's OK for the UK to break the Northern Ireland Protocol because to adhere to it would cause unrest among the Protestant Taliban.

I expect the EU to disagree and then for the UK to fall back in line as it has every time it has tried sabre-rattling in the last 6 years.

Wudang · 12th May 2022, 01:13 AM

Quote:

I am not much reassured to read that Braverman, whose relationship to the law is like a Labrador's to string theory, has signed off on ditching the Protocol.

Jo Maughum

https://t.co/S6ZhRwq5Zu

wobs · 12th May 2022, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Last Tweek 60% in NI voted for parties who support the protocol

Its been doing the round on social media that Star Trek Next Gen predicted that Ireland would see reunification in 2024. Although this was down to the IRA's efforts rather than the UK government's.

ponderingturtle · 12th May 2022, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

Boris has had advise that he can override his brexit deal as it has created public unrest.

It is almost as if the puplic didn't know what they were voting for.

Why are people still negotiating with the british, they are incapable of negotiating in good faith. Clearly the answer is a no deal, no agreement, maximum border closure response.

Captain_Swoop · 12th May 2022, 04:39 PM

As Deborah Meaden says, it’s not healthy that the BBC Question Time audience laugh at the Attorney General on points of law.

Captain_Swoop · 13th May 2022, 02:38 AM

According to todays Express front page Truss has warned she has no choice but to rip up the "Brexit border deal". because it is "endangering peace" in Northern Ireland.

In the Torygraph Lord Frost says Boris must show the same leadership he displayed in the Ukraine war by ripping up the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Guardian says a delegation of US congressmen is flying to London amid concerns that tensions over the protocol could put peace and stability at risk, Any future UK and US trade deal cannot progress if there is "any jeopardy" to the Good Friday Agreement

Captain_Swoop · 15th May 2022, 07:20 AM

Jeremy Vine asking "Does anyone think the UK is now doing better in Eurovision because we left the EU?"

Garrison · 15th May 2022, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Jeremy Vine asking "Does anyone think the UK is now doing better in Eurovision because we left the EU?"

Well according to this BBC article we did better because the people in charge stopped whining about all those mean countries rigging the voting and decided to commit proper resources to the endeavour, basically the opposite of Brexit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61450874

Darat · 15th May 2022, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Garrison

Well according to this BBC article we did better because the people in charge stopped whining about all those mean countries rigging the voting and decided to commit proper resources to the endeavour, basically the opposite of Brexit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61450874

And Terry Wogan's poisonous attitude towards Eurovision has had time to die.

Captain_Swoop · 16th May 2022, 05:27 PM

On Channel 4 News

"Yes, I agreed it. I hoped & believed our friends would not necessarily want to apply it"

The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom agreed & signed an international treaty affecting the lives of millions in the U.K. hoping that the cosignatories would not apply it.

Smirking ****.

video in link https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/st...05196321685511

4th May 2022, 04:48 AM	#3001
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Leching at tractors (in Wales) Posts: 27,837	Originally Posted by The Don That's hardly surprising. Most of the hardcore "Gammons" living in the EU would never have bothered to acquire residency for the EU country in which they were living either pre or post Brexit and as a result have ended up back in the UK. Those still living in the EU are likely to be much better integrated (though I'm sure that there are exceptions in places like the Costas) and as a result have a dimmer view of the UK Absolutely. I know of a few ex expats (not Gammons, but I'm sure it applies in spades to Gammons) in Greece who played fast and loose over residency, driving licence, adhering to the proper annual tax return process, legalisation of improper home alterations, and other stuff. Two simply abandoned very nice houses as the bureaucracy and retrospective fines would have made their lives a misery. It was hard enough for us to sell up and leave, and we'd been following the rules almost religiously.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

4th May 2022, 08:20 AM	#3002
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	Nigel Farage says Quote: Sadly it looks as though the Rwanda policy is about to rebound on the government. Several legal challenges are already underway. Unless Brexit is completed and we leave the ECHR, 100,000 migrants will arrive in 2022 and the Red Wall will collapse. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ntinue-record/ Does he really think the ECHR is part of the EU? Also, remember when he said millions of Romanians were going to move here?
	Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 4th May 2022 at 08:23 AM.

4th May 2022, 10:28 AM	#3003
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,778	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Nigel Farage says Quote: Sadly it looks as though the Rwanda policy is about to rebound on the government. Several legal challenges are already underway. Unless Brexit is completed and we leave the ECHR, 100,000 migrants will arrive in 2022 and the Red Wall will collapse. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ntinue-record/ But of course, Brexit was never about xenophobia, was it? Quote: Does he really think the ECHR is part of the EU? Possibly (I’ve met plenty of lawyers who seemed confused about the distinction), but perhaps he just realises that being signed up to the ECHR is effectively a condition of EU membership. Quote: Also, remember when he said millions of Romanians were going to move here? See above.
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5th May 2022, 03:02 AM	#3005
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,809	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Nigel Farage says https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ntinue-record/ Does he really think the ECHR is part of the EU? Also, remember when he said millions of Romanians were going to move here? It has "Europe" in its name therefore it is an abomination.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

5th May 2022, 04:57 AM	#3006
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,610	Originally Posted by Darat It has "Europe" in its name therefore it is an abomination. It has long suited the Brexiters to conflate the ECHR with the European Court of Justice and the EU in general. Farage knows exactly what he’s doing.
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,610	__________________ "We must favour verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth." Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason

5th May 2022, 02:07 AM	#3004
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	Is this a Brexit thing? The Daily Telegraph is puffing up and supporting the demand for an inquiry into the French, Exocet missiles that sank HMS Sheffield during the Falklands War 40 years ago. Apparently the claim is that the missiles had a secret, remote control 'kill switch' that would have disabled them if it was activated. France says there was no such thing on the missiles. Lord Tebbit and David Mellor are wading in, the French have to 'explain themselves' and tell us if they 'withheld information' about the missiles 'secrets' from us.

6th May 2022, 09:30 AM	#3007
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce Sunlit Uplands https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...n-radioactive/

6th May 2022, 09:48 AM	#3008
SteveAitch Muse Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: St Aines Posts: 519	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce Sunlit Uplands https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...n-radioactive/ Self-cooking veg? That you can find in the dark?
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6th May 2022, 10:45 AM	#3009
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,913	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce Sunlit Uplands https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...n-radioactive/ Well [1] The risk was infinitesimal [2] Does the UK actually import anything produced near Fukushima? [3] You might want to be more concerned about imports from ~~the USSR~~ Russia.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

6th May 2022, 12:07 PM	#3010
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	Point is, it's another relaxation of standards.

6th May 2022, 04:25 PM	#3011
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Point is, it's another relaxation of standards. Yes, but think how much electricity we can save lighting our home with glowing turnips.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

7th May 2022, 02:18 AM	#3012
Cosmic Yak Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 5,784	Originally Posted by catsmate Well [1] The risk was infinitesimal [2] Does the UK actually import anything produced near Fukushima? [3] You might want to be more concerned about imports from ~~the USSR~~ Russia. Also, the ban on imports has been lifted, or restrictions relaxed, by many other countries, including the US and also the EU. Brexit is not a factor in this decision. The levels of radiation in food from Fukushima are far below general background levels in the UK, which is why the ban has been lifted. No need for Luddism here.
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10th May 2022, 12:38 AM	#3013
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,724	Now that the DUP has lost the election and opted for the dignified response of taking their ball and going home, Liz Truss appears ready to reward them for doing so: Quote: Liz Truss is reportedly preparing draft legislation that would unilaterally scrap key parts of the Northern Ireland protocol removing the need for checks on goods between Britain and Northern Ireland. No bill is expected to be announced in the Queen’s speech on Tuesday but the UK foreign secretary is reported to have asked officials to prepare the draft, which would put the UK in breach of its treaty obligations. As well as scrapping checks, the draft legislation would also take away powers of the European court of justice and remove all requirement for Northern Irish businesses to follow EU regulations. The Guardian: Liz Truss ‘preparing to tear up Northern Ireland protocol’
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,724

10th May 2022, 12:48 AM	#3014
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by KDLarsen Now that the DUP has lost the election and opted for the dignified response of taking their ball and going home, Liz Truss appears ready to reward them for doing so: The Guardian: Liz Truss ‘preparing to tear up Northern Ireland protocol’ I can see that ending well. If Truss is going to scrap checks between NI and the rest of the UK then the EU isn't going to be sanguine about check-free access to Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement will be in jeopardy which in turn will make the US very unhappy indeed. IMO the scrapping of the NI Protocol isn't a reward to the DUP. The British government always intended to renege on large chunks of the Brexit agreements and this just provides a handy catalyst for this particular element. It's a sign of this government's deluded exceptionalism that they think it's fine to unilaterally renege on international treaties when they're providing active support to a country which is batting an invading one which is doing exactly the same thing. Sadly, it seems that one of the primary aims of the government is to screw things up so badly with the EU that the UK will never be considered for membership ever again. It's like the process of rail privatisation where the primary objective wasn't to provide a better service to passengers or a more reliable and robust rail infrastructure, it was simply to make renationalisation impossible.

10th May 2022, 02:26 AM	#3015
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	They do know it will make every country we are looking at signing treaties with think twice? Trigger the penalty clauses and blame our poverty on the EU. People did vote to be poorer, so it’s only fair to make sure they are.
	Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 10th May 2022 at 02:28 AM.

10th May 2022, 02:32 AM	#3016
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	Last Tweek 60% in NI voted for parties who support the protocol

10th May 2022, 02:38 AM	#3017
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Last Tweek 60% in NI voted for parties who support the protocol ....and ? Nearly 56% voted to remain in the EU - look where that got them. The Westminster government only cares about Northern Ireland when it suits them to (like when it needs DUP support), otherwise they'll just use NI to achieve their own ends.

10th May 2022, 06:23 AM	#3018
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,809	Originally Posted by The Don I can see that ending well. If Truss is going to scrap checks between NI and the rest of the UK then the EU isn't going to be sanguine about check-free access to Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement will be in jeopardy which in turn will make the US very unhappy indeed. IMO the scrapping of the NI Protocol isn't a reward to the DUP. The British government always intended to renege on large chunks of the Brexit agreements and this just provides a handy catalyst for this particular element. It's a sign of this government's deluded exceptionalism that they think it's fine to unilaterally renege on international treaties when they're providing active support to a country which is batting an invading one which is doing exactly the same thing. Sadly, it seems that one of the primary aims of the government is to screw things up so badly with the EU that the UK will never be considered for membership ever again. It's like the process of rail privatisation where the primary objective wasn't to provide a better service to passengers or a more reliable and robust rail infrastructure, it was simply to make renationalisation impossible. I don't think they did, it's an example of Hanlon's razor - they hadn't a clue what they signed, what it would mean and so on, all they knew was that needed to spin "Brexit is done!"
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10th May 2022, 06:47 AM	#3019
Wudang BOFH Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 14,470	I'm reminded of the old phrase "We'll burn that bridge when we come to it."
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

10th May 2022, 07:15 AM	#3020
Cosmic Yak Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 5,784	Originally Posted by The Don I can see that ending well. If Truss is going to scrap checks between NI and the rest of the UK then the EU isn't going to be sanguine about check-free access to Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement will be in jeopardy which in turn will make the US very unhappy indeed. IMO the scrapping of the NI Protocol isn't a reward to the DUP. The British government always intended to renege on large chunks of the Brexit agreements and this just provides a handy catalyst for this particular element. It's a sign of this government's deluded exceptionalism that they think it's fine to unilaterally renege on international treaties when they're providing active support to a country which is batting an invading one which is doing exactly the same thing. Sadly, it seems that one of the primary aims of the government is to screw things up so badly with the EU that the UK will never be considered for membership ever again. It's like the process of rail privatisation where the primary objective wasn't to provide a better service to passengers or a more reliable and robust rail infrastructure, it was simply to make renationalisation impossible. Curious claim. On what are you basing this?
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10th May 2022, 07:34 AM	#3021
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak Curious claim. On what are you basing this? On them not properly implementing any of it.

10th May 2022, 07:37 AM	#3022
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 101,809	Originally Posted by Wudang I'm reminded of the old phrase "We'll burn that bridge when we come to it." Considering Johnson's track record with bridges that seems quite apt!
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10th May 2022, 08:22 AM	#3023
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak Curious claim. On what are you basing this? The repeated demands by the UK government to renegotiate the Brexit deals. Jacob Rees-Moggs claims that the UK can do whatever it wants. Dominic Cummings' claims that Boris Johnson always planned to renege on the NI Protocol. ...and as Captain Swoop points out, the UK hasn't even done the minimum required to live up to our side of the agreement.

10th May 2022, 02:22 PM	#3024
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	Originally Posted by Darat I don't think they did, it's an example of Hanlon's razor - they hadn't a clue what they signed, what it would mean and so on, all they knew was that needed to spin "Brexit is done!" I think you're both half right, they didn't go in with the intention of renaging, but an attitude of "get something signed & if it doesn't work for us we'll renague". Now I think they're going to try & start a trade war with the EU to reform the Brexit Battle Lines that worked for them last time.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

10th May 2022, 02:28 PM	#3025
Wudang BOFH Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 14,470	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer I think you're both half right, they didn't go in with the intention of renaging, but an attitude of "get something signed & if it doesn't work for us we'll renague". Now I think they're going to try & start a trade war with the EU to reform the Brexit Battle Lines that worked for them last time. I think you're looking for a long term plan where there isn't one. I don't think there is a strategy, just tactics to get tomorrow's headline.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

10th May 2022, 02:32 PM	#3026
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,581	Originally Posted by Wudang I'm reminded of the old phrase "We'll burn that bridge when we come to it." Sorry,for a moment I thought you were channelling the Russian military in planning one of their advances backwards to the East.
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10th May 2022, 03:18 PM	#3027
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 17,421	I don't think they intended to renage. It is a given that the leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. The leave politicians didn't know what they were standing for either. That is still the case. They simply don't understand how trade and borders work. They tell the negotiators what they want, the negotiators who do understand how it all works deliver what is asked for but the leavers don't understand the consequences of their request. So we get "We want a deal with no land border in Ireland." "Done" What do mean the whole of the UK will remain part of the EU fiscal and customs territory? We don't want that. Let them have Ireland but we want to set our own rules on the mainland" "Done" What do you mean we have to have a border between us and Northern Ireland? Ok agree a border and we will do the required checks" "Done" "What do you mean we really have to do the checks? It is an internal border this is crazy! Rip up the protocol and get rid of the border in the Irish sea. "Done" "What do you mean the EU have reinstated the land border, Why have they done that?"
	Last edited by Lothian; 10th May 2022 at 03:20 PM.

11th May 2022, 04:03 AM	#3028
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	Originally Posted by Wudang I think you're looking for a long term plan where there isn't one. I don't think there is a strategy, just tactics to get tomorrow's headline. I wouldn't call any of it 'long term' planning, it's what they think will get them through the immediate crisis without any thought for the knock on effects that will become the next crisis. "That's tomorrow Boris's problem".
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

11th May 2022, 11:35 PM	#3029
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 17,421	Boris has had advise that he can override his brexit deal as it has created public unrest. It is almost as if the puplic didn't know what they were voting for.

12th May 2022, 12:12 AM	#3030
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by Lothian Boris has had advise that he can override his brexit deal as it has created public unrest. It is almost as if the puplic didn't know what they were voting for. It seems that Boris was just blindly fishing for a solution out of a hat without really trying to even understand the consequences of his choice. Having A solution at all was the point. Having an even half-way workable, meh-it-will-do-for-now solution was not.
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12th May 2022, 01:01 AM	#3031
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,168	The UK Attorney General has ruled that it's OK for the UK to break the Northern Ireland Protocol because to adhere to it would cause unrest among the Protestant Taliban. I expect the EU to disagree and then for the UK to fall back in line as it has every time it has tried sabre-rattling in the last 6 years.

12th May 2022, 01:13 AM	#3032
Wudang BOFH Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 14,470	Quote: I am not much reassured to read that Braverman, whose relationship to the law is like a Labrador's to string theory, has signed off on ditching the Protocol. Jo Maughum https://t.co/S6ZhRwq5Zu
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott. Last edited by Wudang; 12th May 2022 at 01:15 AM.

12th May 2022, 03:13 AM	#3033
wobs Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 2,644	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Last Tweek 60% in NI voted for parties who support the protocol Its been doing the round on social media that Star Trek Next Gen predicted that Ireland would see reunification in 2024. Although this was down to the IRA's efforts rather than the UK government's.
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12th May 2022, 06:51 AM	#3034
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,385	Originally Posted by Lothian Boris has had advise that he can override his brexit deal as it has created public unrest. It is almost as if the puplic didn't know what they were voting for. Why are people still negotiating with the british, they are incapable of negotiating in good faith. Clearly the answer is a no deal, no agreement, maximum border closure response.
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12th May 2022, 04:39 PM	#3035
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,150	As Deborah Meaden says, it’s not healthy that the BBC Question Time audience laugh at the Attorney General on points of law.