IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » History, Literature, and the Arts
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 11th February 2022, 05:41 AM   #281
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 15,159
This is my favorite genre of NFT social media interaction.

An NFT bro complains that some scammer or hacker has stolen their NFT ape. Other people, trolls and fellow NFT bros alike, request they stop using the stolen art as their profile pic, as they no longer own it. Often these grieving NFT theft victims comply.

https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/sta...DRwbyxorQpAAAA
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2022, 01:22 PM   #282
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,405
Time for a rethink?

Marketplace suspends most NFT sales, citing 'rampant' fakes and plagiarism

https://www.reuters.com/business/fin...em-2022-02-11/

Quote:
Hejazi highlighted three main problems: people selling unauthorised copies of other NFTs, people making NFTs of content which does not belong to them, and people selling sets of NFTs which resemble a security.

He said these issues were "rampant", with users "minting and minting and minting counterfeit digital assets".

"It kept happening. We would ban offending accounts but it was like we're playing a game of whack-a-mole... Every time we would ban one, another one would come up, or three more would come up."
and,

Quote:
The biggest NFT marketplace, OpenSea, valued at $13.3 billion after its latest round of venture funding, said last month more than 80% of the NFTs minted for free on its platform were "plagiarized works, fake collections and spam".
Who would have thought? It's enough to make me think of selling my Bitcoin.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2022, 08:39 AM   #283
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,346
Jesus Christ. $13.3 billion.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2022, 11:02 AM   #284
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 32,383
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Jesus Christ. $13.3 billion.
Jesus Christ is worth that much now? Damn, I should have bought the NFT when it was going for a mere two billion!
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2022, 11:05 AM   #285
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,405
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Jesus Christ is worth that much now? Damn, I should have bought the NFT when it was going for a mere two billion!
Just hang in there and wait for the crash. He'll be worth a nickel then.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2022, 11:38 AM   #286
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 12,506
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Just hang in there and wait for the crash. He'll be worth a nickel then.
Maybe right after, but on the third day it should rise again....
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2022, 07:19 PM   #287
Solitaire
Neoclinus blanchardi
 
Solitaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,697
Quote:
The UK's Tax Watchdog Seizes Three NFT by Boom Berg

The UK's tax watchdog seized three non fungible tokens as part
of a suspected case of value-added tax fraud worth $1.9 million,
the BBC reported. Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs said it was
the first time that U.K. law enforcement had seized an NFT, a type
of digital asset that can be traded over blockchains networks,
according to the report. Three people have been arrested on
suspicion of attempting to defraud the authority allegedly using
a web of 250 fake companies, the BBC said on Monday, citing HMRC.
Wait a minute.

Didn't proponents of the blockchain say that governments couldn't do that?
__________________
Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
Solitaire is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2022, 07:23 AM   #288
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 12,506
Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Wait a minute.

Didn't proponents of the blockchain say that governments couldn't do that?
I don't know why anyone would say governments couldn't do that. They can seize just about anything they can get their hands on. If they get the wallet address then they have the NFT. Boom. Done and done.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2022, 09:27 AM   #289
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 15,159
Would you believe that the Melania Trump NFT was a scam?

Quote:
The source of funds for the winning bid in Melania Trump’s first NFT auction appears to be the creators of the project themselves.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-to-185k-funds

Another highly publicized, high dollar NFT sale that turned out to be a wash trade.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2022, 09:53 AM   #290
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,416
I've decided to make my own NFTs at home by buying products and throwing them away, only keeping the receipts.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2022, 09:56 AM   #291
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 12,506
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've decided to make my own NFTs at home by buying products and throwing them away, only keeping the receipts.
Please post the videos. I agree, you should totally do that.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2022, 09:59 AM   #292
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 32,383
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've decided to make my own NFTs at home by buying products and throwing them away, only keeping the receipts.
Now there's an idea. Somewhere in my hoarded barn junk, there's a file I once kept of instructions and receipts for things I no longer had or that had ceased to exist. I think I'll have to start monetizing them. I can give them extra interest by noting which ones broke, which others went up in smoke, and (premium here) the ones that never existed at all.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th February 2022, 08:21 AM   #293
ZirconBlue
Sole Survivor of L-Town
 
ZirconBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lexington, KY, USA, Earth
Posts: 14,286
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Jesus Christ is worth that much now? Damn, I should have bought the NFT when it was going for a mere two billion!
I only paid 30 pcs of silver for him.
__________________
Religion and sex are powerplays.
Manipulate the people for the money they pay.
Selling skin, selling God
The numbers look the same on their credit cards.
ZirconBlue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th February 2022, 08:50 AM   #294
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,346
You have to be more specific than "pieces" of silver dude.


Quote:
A Stable Safe-Haven. (symbol SLVT)
Many people want to protect the value of their money, but struggle to find a stable investment option that is also easy to access and use.

SilverToken gives you direct ownership of silver, managed by blockchain technology.


...


The Silverlink token (LKNS)


...


SilverCoin

SilverCoin’s fractionalized nature, security measures, and inclusive nature make the silver-backed cryptocurrency a leading option for investors.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th February 2022, 09:15 AM   #295
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 32,383
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You have to be more specific than "pieces" of silver dude.
But if you buy silver tokens, then your crypto value is tied to the lazy river of silver. These days what you need is the NFT for virtual silver, for which there are no boundaries!
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th February 2022, 12:35 PM   #296
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,346
This piece of NFT knowledge reminds me of derivatives. You can apparently not own a "Fraction" of an NFT which is not-ownership of an art.

Originally Posted by azuki NFT info
Each Fraction represents a vote in the governance of the Vault which contains the NFT, which is not to be confused with owning a fraction of the NFT. It's important to remember that a Fraction is not an investment or a promise of future value. A Fraction allows you to participate in the decision making of the Vault that contains Bobu (Azuki #40).

TLDR; Fractions are not ownership in the underlying NFT. Fractions are tokens used for governance over the NFT.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2022, 11:25 PM   #297
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 27,282
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Now there's an idea. Somewhere in my hoarded barn junk, there's a file I once kept of instructions and receipts for things I no longer had or that had ceased to exist. I think I'll have to start monetizing them. I can give them extra interest by noting which ones broke, which others went up in smoke, and (premium here) the ones that never existed at all.
Receipts are worth money. Method
1. Find someone who is insured and has been robbed or had their house burnt.
2. Sell these receipts to this person.
3. They tell the insurance people they lost these items in their disaster.
4. Insurance pays out on your receipts.

The above may be a crime.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2022, 06:10 AM   #298
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,349
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's actually the opposite of true. The NFT is what designates the original.
No it doesn’t. Advocates want you to believe that, but nothing makes that true. The NFT is unique, but it isn’t original. And the same art can be used in multiple NFT’s. Keep in mind that someone can “mint” an NFT with artwork they don’t even own the copyright to, and without the permission of the actual copyright holder.

Quote:
If you copy an artwork that has an NFT, then you have an artwork with an NFT, and an artwork that does not. Since the NFT cannot be copied, only the one with the NFT can be considered "original", even though many copies might exist. That's the whole point.
No. The whole point is to sell people nothing for real money.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2022, 06:39 AM   #299
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,349
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
While technically correct (the best kind of correct) I think both of you are missing my point. Money only has the value it has because someone has decided that it has. Money is totally arbitrary, and it has value only inasmuch as it can be exchanged for something of value. Money doesn't have value because it is rare, or because it is useful, or because it is beautiful.
Gold has value because it is all of those.

Fiat currencies have rarity, which is crucial, but not the other things. But you are missing a critical component of fiat currencies: taxation. Government can demand taxes be paid in the currency of their choice. If you want to do business in that country, you have to use that currency in order to pay any taxes due. This creates demand for the fiat currency which helps ensure it has value, provided people actually do business in that country and its government is functioning.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2022, 04:23 AM   #300
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 52,385
Build Finance DAO suffers hostile takeover gets all assets looted.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgd5...als-everything

"Build Finance DAO announced through Twitter on Monday that a "malicious actor" had accomplished a "hostile governance takeover." The person had taken over the token contract, governance contract, minting keys, and the project's treasury. A wallet named Sudo.eth made the initial proposal to put themselves in charge and it failed after they were voted down in the project's Discord, but then transferred their tokens to another wallet and offered the proposal once more. The proposal passed this time because no alert was issued on Discord that a new proposal had been made, The Block reported.

The coup drained nearly $500,000 worth of tokens from the project."

Thank god these things are unregulated or they might have broken some law and not just played the system to win.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2022, 09:52 AM   #301
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,346
I joined an NFT group and I have been informing myself of one of the larger profile photo NFT projects. The use of jargon is very cult-like. I have a 60 minute twitter space (voice meeting thing) to go through to finish learning about the finances, but so far it is red-lining my baloney detection meter.

ETA - no I do not have a crypto wallet or any crypto currency to lose, just listening in.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 05:54 AM   #302
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 15,159
Duo arrested for "Frosties" NFT rug pull scam:

Quote:
Two Defendants Charged In Non-Fungible Token (“NFT”) Fraud And Money Laundering Scheme
Defendants Executed a $1 Million NFT Fraud Scheme in January 2022, and Were Preparing to Execute a Second Prior to Their Arrests

...

Since in or about January 2022, IRS-CI and HSI have been investigating a NFT fraud scheme based on reports from purchasers of Frosties utility NFTs[2] that they had been defrauded in what is colloquially referred to as a “rug pull.” As the term suggests, a “rug pull” refers to a scenario where the creator of an NFT and/or gaming project solicits investments and then abruptly abandons a project and fraudulently retains the project investors’ funds. According to the official Frosties website, Frosties purchasers would be eligible for holder rewards, such as, inter alia, giveaways, early access to a metaverse game, and exclusive mint passes to upcoming Frosties seasons. In reality, on or about January 9, 2022, NGUYEN and LLACUNA, whose legal identities were disguised to Frosties NFT purchasers, abruptly abandoned the Frosties NFT project within hours after selling out of Frosties NFTs, deactivated the Frosties website, and transferred approximately $1.1 million in cryptocurrency proceeds from the scheme to various cryptocurrency wallets under their control in multiple transactions designed to obfuscate the original source of funds.

...

Prior to their arrests, NGUYEN and LLACUNA were advertising a second NFT project under the name “Embers,” which, based on similarities to the Frosties NFT project, is believed to be another fraud scheme that was expected to launch on or around March 26, 2022. A screenshot taken from the Embers website is shown below:

Lol of course they were about to do the same thing again. Only surprising thing about this story is that the two scammers were located in the US and were arrestable.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...ering-scheme-0
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 06:31 AM   #303
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 12,506
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Duo arrested for "Frosties" NFT rug pull scam:

Lol of course they were about to do the same thing again. Only surprising thing about this story is that the two scammers were located in the US and were arrestable.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...ering-scheme-0
The system is working as designed. Good catch, ST. You're really proving that crypto, NFTs, and the other peripherals are being forced to follow the laws of the US.

Great work.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 07:05 AM   #304
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 15,159
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The system is working as designed. Good catch, ST. You're really proving that crypto, NFTs, and the other peripherals are being forced to follow the laws of the US.

Great work.
Everyone loves decentralization until they get their wallet looted.

Let's be real here, if these scammers were overseas in a non-extradition country there's nothing that could be done. Running this grift while in the US is a rookie move.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 07:31 AM   #305
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 12,506
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Let's be real here, if these scammers were overseas in a non-extradition country there's nothing that could be done. Running this grift while in the US is a rookie move.
Can you explain to me, in detail, how this is different than any other kind of financial crime? The Nigerian Prince, etc? Is there something that makes that specific to crypto or NFTs?

Just kidding, I know the answer.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 07:36 AM   #306
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 15,159
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Can you explain to me, in detail, how this is different than any other kind of financial crime? The Nigerian Prince, etc? Is there something that makes that specific to crypto or NFTs?

Just kidding, I know the answer.
Nothing really. Nothing crypto is doing is novel, it's the same old scams operating under a thin veneer of techno-babble, boosted by a bunch of greedy and gullible types who hope to make a quick buck on this openly predatory market.

NFTs are just digital beanie babies.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 11:30 AM   #307
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,416
And like all scams the people who are either behind it or have fallen for it defend oddly aggressively, like you've insulted them personally.

Tell me my 401k or a Mutual Fund is a scam and I'll disagree with you, but I won't act like you made love to my girl on my mother's coffin at the funeral.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 12:26 PM   #308
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 12,506
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And like all scams the people who are either behind it or have fallen for it defend oddly aggressively, like you've insulted them personally.

Tell me my 401k or a Mutual Fund is a scam and I'll disagree with you, but I won't act like you made love to my girl on my mother's coffin at the funeral.
Yeah, replying to things in a thread is super aggressive. Fresh take.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 09:06 PM   #309
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 18,768
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And like all scams the people who are either behind it or have fallen for it defend oddly aggressively, like you've insulted them personally.

Tell me my 401k or a Mutual Fund is a scam and I'll disagree with you, but I won't act like you made love to my girl on my mother's coffin at the funeral.
The problem is that when a scam is discussed, it is inevitably along the lines of "the crypto IS the scam" rather than "a scam was run using cryptos" and with the inevitable implication that if it weren't for cryptos, there would be no scams.

I personally find such illogical thinking on a "critical thinking" forum annoying.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 09:32 PM   #310
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 32,383
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The problem is that when a scam is discussed, it is inevitably along the lines of "the crypto IS the scam" rather than "a scam was run using cryptos" and with the inevitable implication that if it weren't for cryptos, there would be no scams.

I personally find such illogical thinking on a "critical thinking" forum annoying.
I sort of get what you're saying I think, but I think you made a logical misstep here.

I can easily say "a Ponzi scheme is a scam" without implying that no other scams are possible.

I think I could say that Crypto is a scam without implying that there would be no scams without it, though it's not what I actually believe. I don't think Crypto has to be a scam, but I do think its unregulated nature makes it fertile ground for scams, and as that becomes more so I suspect that honest risk-averse investors will forsake it. And I think NFT's are largely a scam: They contain somewhere in their genesis a grand idea of artistic democracy and artists' rights, implemented in a way that makes the idea impracticable. The volatility of collectibles without anything to collect.

This deed says you own this deed.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th March 2022, 10:06 PM   #311
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 18,768
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I don't think Crypto has to be a scam, but I do think its unregulated nature makes it fertile ground for scams, and as that becomes more so I suspect that honest risk-averse investors will forsake it.
For that matter, the entire internet is a fertile breeding ground for scams but nobody is about to forsake it in a hurry.

Originally Posted by bruto View Post
And I think NFT's are largely a scam: They contain somewhere in their genesis a grand idea of artistic democracy and artists' rights, implemented in a way that makes the idea impracticable.
You are premature in dismissing NFTs. Like cryptos, they have uses other than for scamming others. Only time will tell how practical NFTs may become.

The dot-com bubble burst more than 20 years ago taking a lot of investor fortunes with it. That didn't mean that (all) dot-com businesses are scams. It just meant that we had to mature our thinking about them and we have large numbers of perfectly safe, legitimate on line businesses today.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 12:21 AM   #312
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
For that matter, the entire internet is a fertile breeding ground for scams but nobody is about to forsake it in a hurry.


You are premature in dismissing NFTs. Like cryptos, they have uses other than for scamming others. Only time will tell how practical NFTs may become.

The dot-com bubble burst more than 20 years ago taking a lot of investor fortunes with it. That didn't mean that (all) dot-com businesses are scams. It just meant that we had to mature our thinking about them and we have large numbers of perfectly safe, legitimate on line businesses today.
Pretty funny that you don't tell us about these "uses"
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 12:47 AM   #313
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 18,768
Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Pretty funny that you don't tell us about these "uses"
Trying to discuss uses of a crypto to somebody who believes that all cryptos are pure scams regardless of how they are used is like casting pearls before swines.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 12:48 AM   #314
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Trying to discuss uses of a crypto to somebody who believes that all cryptos are pure scams regardless of how they are used is like casting pearls before swines.
Ah, got it. There are no uses.
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 12:50 AM   #315
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 18,768
Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Ah, got it. There are no uses.
See what I mean?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 01:40 AM   #316
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
See what I mean?
Yeah, I see what you mean. You implied that there were "more uses" for nfts, when asked, you can't name them. Pretty obvious.
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 02:35 AM   #317
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 18,768
Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Yeah, I see what you mean.
Obviously you don't.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 02:45 AM   #318
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Obviously you don't.
So you can name the other uses? Very well, go ahead.

ETA: Crickets, as expected...
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.

Last edited by EaglePuncher; 30th March 2022 at 04:05 AM.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 04:21 AM   #319
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 15,159
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The problem is that when a scam is discussed, it is inevitably along the lines of "the crypto IS the scam" rather than "a scam was run using cryptos" and with the inevitable implication that if it weren't for cryptos, there would be no scams.

I personally find such illogical thinking on a "critical thinking" forum annoying.
It's pretty safe to say that all these algorithmically generated NFT collections such as bored apes or crypto punks are scams. The ones that aren't outright rug pull frauds are merely attempts for get-rich-quick speculative bubbles.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th March 2022, 05:34 AM   #320
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 18,768
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's pretty safe to say that all these algorithmically generated NFT collections such as bored apes or crypto punks are scams.
Is it true that every single NFT transaction is fraudulent? What is your evidence?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » History, Literature, and the Arts

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:45 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.