[Continuation] Australian Politics - The Morrison Period Part II - Page 3

The Atheist · 14th July 2021, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So you are saying that a Victorian family trying to return home to Victoria should be denied access at the Murray and turned around back INTO NSW to fend for themselves with no support?

Nice strawman you have there mate - want a hand setting fire to it?

Where did I suggest any of the italicised points?

I specifically noted removals, because that offers multiple infection points, and I'm sure it's something that could be managed by state authorities. We managed weeks of total shutdown with no removals last year - it's pretty simple stuff.

You even quoted me posting this piece in terms of people breaking rules:

His infection is linked to the family of four who returned from Sydney and broke quarantine rules by visiting the Coles and a petrol station.

lionking · 17th July 2021, 11:24 PM

Talking about breaking lockdown rules, the three removalists who seeded the current Victorian outbreak have been found 300km away in western NSW despite being under quarantine. Two are carrying the virus. Firstly, why were they not in hotel quarantine given their form? Secondly when they were picked up, they were told to quarantine for another 14 days? Why were they not arrested for endangering public health?

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...d-19-c-3429690

The NSW government has botched this monumentally. Yesterday it was announced that everyone except emergency workers in the Fairfield district needed to stay at home. Today it was announced that people who worked in retail could leave, along with people in manufacturing. Gladys simply avoided questions like this in the presser, while whinging about how hard her job is. Pathetic.

She also said she had been engaging business groups and that was why the lockdown rules were eased. Daniel Andrews doesn’t waste time with business groups.

Pictures today of crowds at Manly and reports that Gucci and other posh stores were open.

Many of the Sydney public are being irresponsible. It looks like they have a government they deserve.

Norman Alexander · 18th July 2021, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Nice strawman you have there mate - want a hand setting fire to it?

Where did I suggest any of the italicised points?

I specifically noted removals, because that offers multiple infection points, and I'm sure it's something that could be managed by state authorities. We managed weeks of total shutdown with no removals last year - it's pretty simple stuff.

You even quoted me posting this piece in terms of people breaking rules:

His infection is linked to the family of four who returned from Sydney and broke quarantine rules by visiting the Coles and a petrol station.

Whatever.

So what IS your solution to stop returning Victorians from NSW who MAY have the virus from visiting anywhere on the way home and then ensuring they isolate for the requisite period? A police escort?

Norman Alexander · 18th July 2021, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Talking about breaking lockdown rules, the three removalists who seeded the current Victorian outbreak have been found 300km away in western NSW despite being under quarantine. Two are carrying the virus. Firstly, why were they not in hotel quarantine given their form? Secondly when they were picked up, they were told to quarantine for another 14 days? Why were they not arrested for endangering public health?

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...d-19-c-3429690

The NSW government has botched this monumentally. Yesterday it was announced that everyone except emergency workers in the Fairfield district needed to stay at home. Today it was announced that people who worked in retail could leave, along with people in manufacturing. Gladys simply avoided questions like this in the presser, while whinging about how hard her job is. Pathetic.

She also said she had been engaging business groups and that was why the lockdown rules were eased. Daniel Andrews doesn’t waste time with business groups.

Pictures today of crowds at Manly and reports that Gucci and other posh stores were open.

Many of the Sydney public are being irresponsible. It looks like they have a government they deserve.

From your link:

Quote:

The men were escorted by police to Greater Sydney and are now being instructed to isolate for 14 days.

This is roughly the equivalent of "helping police with their inquiries". It's a euphemism for something like "arrested, transferred in a paddy-wagon, charged, and put under house arrest".

lionking · 18th July 2021, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

From your link:This is roughly the equivalent of "helping police with their inquiries". It's a euphemism for something like "arrested, transferred in a paddy-wagon, charged, and put under house arrest".

I’m not so sure. Let’s see.

arthwollipot · 18th July 2021, 07:55 PM

Good riddance.

Katie Hopkins to be deported from Australia ‘imminently’ after visa cancelled

Quote:

Minister Karen Andrews says British far-right commentator entered country with support of NSW government to appear on Seven Network’s Big Brother VIP

The Australian government has cancelled Katie Hopkins’ visa after the far-right commentator boasted about breaching hotel quarantine conditions.

The cancellation was announced by the home affairs minister, Karen Andrews, on Monday – and follows a decision by Endemol Shine Australia to cancel her contract to appear on Seven Network’s Big Brother VIP. Hopkins will now be required to leave the country.

Hopkins, 46, broadcast a live video from what she claimed was a Sydney hotel room on Saturday morning, describing Covid-19 lockdowns as “the greatest hoax in human history” while joking about elaborate plans to breach quarantine rules. In the Instagram video, which is no longer available to view, she said she was trying to “frighten” security guards by answering her hotel door naked and maskless.

Guardian Australia understands Hopkins is likely to leave the country on a flight departing Sydney mid-afternoon on Monday.

Norman Alexander · 18th July 2021, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I’m not so sure. Let’s see.

Like you, I agree they should be arrested and charged with knowingly breaching whatever public health controls exist for COVID. It's pretty deliberate, and they get no sympathy from me.

arthwollipot · 18th July 2021, 07:59 PM

All my American friends (and the hosts of the SGU) are currently laughing at the word "removalist".

The Atheist · 18th July 2021, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So what IS your solution to stop returning Victorians from NSW who MAY have the virus from visiting anywhere on the way home and then ensuring they isolate for the requisite period? A police escort?

Taking people by secure transport to a quarantine facility seems to work well for us.

lionking · 19th July 2021, 12:54 AM

There is still a political connection to this (yes, removed). The mother of two of the removalists (why is this funny to yanks?) has died of covid. Now did the sons give her covid or did she give it to them? I think the latter.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...19-p58b2g.html

Quote:

The mother of two Sydney removalists who tested positive to COVID-19 was found dead in the family home on Monday morning.

The body of the woman, aged in her 50s, was found by emergency services at the home in Green Valley in Sydney’s west and she was later confirmed as a COVID-19 case.

arthwollipot · 19th July 2021, 08:27 PM

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy:

Christian Porter and barrister Sue Chrysanthou may have to pay $500,000 in legal fees to Jo Dyer

Quote:

Justice Tom Thawley tells hearing costs claim is a ‘lump sum of $500-odd thousand’

Christian Porter and his high-profile barrister could be forced to pay more than $500,000 in legal fees to a friend of the woman who accused the former attorney general of raping her three decades ago, a court has heard. Porter strenuously denies the allegation.

Porter’s defamation case against the ABC was dropped in May, but a separate case has continued to drag on, and threatens to cost the former attorney general $500,000 in costs.

In May, a high school debating friend of the woman at the centre of the case, Jo Dyer, successfully restrained Porter’s star silk, Sue Chrysanthou SC, from acting in the ABC defamation case over what she said was a conflict of interest arising out of a meeting between the two women in November last year.

Norman Alexander · 20th July 2021, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Taking people by secure transport to a quarantine facility seems to work well for us.

We would need a fleet of buses and/or trains to do that here, given the numbers and the distances. That creates a perfect super-spreader environment. Start with 50 clear on a bus and one infected, 51 infected get off at the other end plus the driver probably.

Also, I don't think Victoria has a super-large quarantine facility yet. Nor NSW. So we bus them to the Darwin one instead?

As for keeping families together, and making arrangements for the vehicles they have to leave behind...

Awesome outcome.

Got another?

Norman Alexander · 20th July 2021, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

All my American friends (and the hosts of the SGU) are currently laughing at the word "removalist".

In US parlance, a "removalist" is an advocate for removing native peoples from traditional land. It would appear to be a negative description.

Norman Alexander · 20th July 2021, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

There is still a political connection to this (yes, removed). The mother of two of the removalists (why is this funny to yanks?) has died of covid. Now did the sons give her covid or did she give it to them? I think the latter.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...19-p58b2g.html

Why didn't she go to hospital? Or did the COVID kill her very quickly?

lionking · 20th July 2021, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Why didn't she go to hospital? Or did the COVID kill her very quickly?

Latest reports is that the whole family, including the two removalists, was offered hotel quarantine after the mother tested positive, but rejected it, no doubt so the sons could illegally carry on their business.

And it is reported that they have used the “don’t understand the language” excuse. How do you think you and I would fare if we littered in Singapore? In my two trips there I don’t recall any “no littering” signs, but we knew the rules. The “don’t understand” excuse would be laughed at there. And it should be here.

The Atheist · 20th July 2021, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

We would need a fleet of buses and/or trains to do that here, given the numbers and the distances.

Bollocks.

Your economy is a zillion times bigger than ours, and we're managing it fine, with exactly the same issues. I think the distance argument is plain red herring. I'm sure you could have facilities in Cobram and Echuca, so it's not like you'd have to take people to Melbourne.

You go your way and we'll go ours. Like I said way back, you're allowing people to spread the virus between states for dumb reasons. You're costing the economy billions in lockdowns and your defence is, "We can't spend a few million to work through this", or even better: "You'd need a fleet of buses!"

Fleet of buses or $50 billion, months-long shutdowns and a number of deaths.

I'll accept your argument that Australia is much less efficient at these things than NZ, though.

Wildy · 20th July 2021, 05:15 AM

Well, SA is now in lockdown. And this time it won't be ending because some guy lied to health officials about what he was doing at a pizza place.

I don't know whose fault it is since it's not caused by the removalists.

Norman Alexander · 20th July 2021, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Bollocks.

Your economy is a zillion times bigger than ours, and we're managing it fine, with exactly the same issues. I think the distance argument is plain red herring. I'm sure you could have facilities in Cobram and Echuca, so it's not like you'd have to take people to Melbourne.

You go your way and we'll go ours. Like I said way back, you're allowing people to spread the virus between states for dumb reasons. You're costing the economy billions in lockdowns and your defence is, "We can't spend a few million to work through this", or even better: "You'd need a fleet of buses!"

Fleet of buses or $50 billion, months-long shutdowns and a number of deaths.

I'll accept your argument that Australia is much less efficient at these things than NZ, though.

ORLY? With Scomo in charge, when do you think these might get built? This year? Next year? Year after that? Or never?

So let's say we catch a couple of hundred border jumpers on the Murray each day. How do we get them to Cobram or Echuca? On the non-existent train? Paddle-steamer down the river? Only one option left: buses. How long by bus from Mildura or Khancoban to Cobram? Plenty of time for infectious passengers to salt the whole bus.

But this is utterly ridiculous. You have proposed a solution that uses resources that don't exist, that nobody will pay for, and would just exacerbate the problem. It is laughably unsuitable. Never mind the actual cost which is entirely beside the point so I never mentioned it.

The Atheist · 20th July 2021, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Never mind the actual cost which is entirely beside the point so I never mentioned it.

No, you never mentioned it because like your entire "argument" it's egregious bollocks.

Hundreds of people on the Murray? You're in Ga-ga land.

The cost of the lockdown was estimated to be $A1 billion a week. And that was before Vic and SA joined the club, so it will be well over $2b a week now.

And (as you know very well) there are towns other than Echuca and Cobram; I picked the two on the most major roads. Do you need a map of Victoria as well as an economics lesson?

Please do go on, this is hilarious.

quadraginta · 20th July 2021, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Good riddance.

Katie Hopkins to be deported from Australia ‘imminently’ after visa cancelled

Quote:

<snip>

Hopkins, 46, broadcast a live video from what she claimed was a Sydney hotel room on Saturday morning, describing Covid-19 lockdowns as “the greatest hoax in human history” while joking about elaborate plans to breach quarantine rules. In the Instagram video, which is no longer available to view, she said she was trying to “frighten” security guards by answering her hotel door naked and maskless.

<snip>

Damn. Is she that bad looking?

I looked at photos of her face, and it didn't seem like it should strike terror into the hearts of the average security guard. I guess the rest of her must be a real wreck.

Norman Alexander · 20th July 2021, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

No, you never mentioned it because like your entire "argument" it's egregious bollocks.

Hundreds of people on the Murray? You're in Ga-ga land.

The cost of the lockdown was estimated to be $A1 billion a week. And that was before Vic and SA joined the club, so it will be well over $2b a week now.

And (as you know very well) there are towns other than Echuca and Cobram; I picked the two on the most major roads. Do you need a map of Victoria as well as an economics lesson?

Please do go on, this is hilarious.

LOL.

Tell me. With this solution of yours in NZ, why don't you put offenders on the train to Stewart Island? Or fly them there.

And just so you know why I LOL, I lived in the Murray region for many years and still visit regularly. Know the place well.

lionking · 21st July 2021, 03:44 PM

Gladys has gone full Trumpian now. At yesterday’s press conference she said the reason the infections were so high was because of the high number of testing. It doesn’t work in reverse of course, where a momentary drop in numbers was due to the work of the government.

The Atheist · 21st July 2021, 10:39 PM

I raised the question in the Covid thread that I remain unconvinced you can actually control the Indian variant.

Numbers of people not isolating found testing positive hit their highest number today, so it's clearly well established in the community. People have to shop, and lots have to work, and it will continue to spread at small numbers.

Has anyone suggested a possible way forward if cases don't drop to zero?

It will be a bloody long lockdown if you wait for everyone to be vaccinated.

I think you might have to get used to the idea that elimination is not possible without a China-style total ban on movement, which isn't going to happen.

Sideroxylon · 21st July 2021, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I raised the question in the Covid thread that I remain unconvinced you can actually control the Indian variant.

Numbers of people not isolating found testing positive hit their highest number today, so it's clearly well established in the community. People have to shop, and lots have to work, and it will continue to spread at small numbers.

Has anyone suggested a possible way forward if cases don't drop to zero?

It will be a bloody long lockdown if you wait for everyone to be vaccinated.

I think you might have to get used to the idea that elimination is not possible without a China-style total ban on movement, which isn't going to happen.

Fast hard lockdowns have worked. The way NSW went in half arsed this was always going to happen. And now it has exposed Australia’s half arsed vaccination program. That’s why we are facing decisions Turks colourfully describe as choosing a grip on a stick with **** on both ends.

arthwollipot · 22nd July 2021, 12:58 AM

Morrison actually apologised today. He breezed past it pretty quickly, but the words "I'm sorry" did pass his lips.

Quote:

Now, as I said yesterday, I take responsibility for the vaccination program. I also take responsibility for the challenges we’ve had. Obviously some things within our control, some things that are not. And I am keen to ensure as we have been over these many months that we’ve been turning this around. I’m sorry that we haven’t been able to achieve the marks that we had hoped for at the beginning of this year. Of course I am. But what’s more important is that we’re totally focused on ensuring that we’ve been turning this around.

source

The Atheist · 22nd July 2021, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Fast hard lockdowns have worked.

They worked against the earlier and less-infectious variants, not the Indian one.

The fact that the highest number of infected people in the community was today is a deeply troubling statistic.

I genuinely think you've missed the bus this time. It's so easy to catch that I can't see how you're going to stop it.

We're pulling the plug on travel tomorrow night, I hear.

Sideroxylon · 22nd July 2021, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

They worked against the earlier and less-infectious variants, not the Indian one.

The fact that the highest number of infected people in the community was today is a deeply troubling statistic.

I genuinely think you've missed the bus this time. It's so easy to catch that I can't see how you're going to stop it.

We're pulling the plug on travel tomorrow night, I hear.

No, we have had success in other states with this variant and they will again. NSW is going to be considering BJ moves in the face of a long crippling lockdown.

Planigale · 22nd July 2021, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

No, we have had success in other states with this variant and they will again. NSW is going to be considering BJ moves in the face of a long crippling lockdown.

Is this Strine for being on your knees, having to take what cums?

rjh01 · 22nd July 2021, 02:46 PM

Whatever NSW has done to combat the latest outbreak is not working. The number of new cases are still increasing.

Sideroxylon · 22nd July 2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Planigale

Is this Strine for being on your knees, having to take what cums?

The Atheist · 22nd July 2021, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

No, we have had success in other states with this variant and they will again. NSW is going to be considering BJ moves in the face of a long crippling lockdown.

I'm not holding my breath. Victoria has had an increase of people not in isolation with the disease. Very small numbers, certainly, from 2 to 4.

I hope you're right, but I remain unconvinced right now.

Originally Posted by Planigale

Is this Strine for being on your knees, having to take what cums?

I'd nominate that, except then you'd get noticed and probably cop a card. Comment of the week at least.

lionking · 22nd July 2021, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I'm not holding my breath. Victoria has had an increase of people not in isolation with the disease. Very small numbers, certainly, from 2 to 4.

I hope you're right, but I remain unconvinced right now.

4 not in isolation is no big issue. It makes contact tracing quite straightforward. I expect 0 tomorrow and restrictions easing next week.

novaphile · 22nd July 2021, 11:51 PM

I think we can agree that the half-arsed response from the Liberal Premier of NSW and the half-arsed response from the Liberal Prime Minister of the country, have led to the problems we're having now.

And, if you look carefully, you'll notice that Scummo's 'apology' wasn't an apology for everything he has done wrong, and continues to do wrong, but an 'apology' that the numbers aren't good.

In case you're wondering why I'm highlighting the political party of the two main offenders, it's because I'm heartily sick of them both making a fuss about Victoria, because the Victorian Premier is from the Labor party, while remaining conspicuously silent about the complete cluster-**** happening in other Liberal States.

At least the Liberal Premier of South Australia has been on the ball with fast lock-downs, and an adequately staffed group of contact tracers.

Meanwhile, our hospitals and ambulance services remain on the precipice because successive right-wing governments have refused to fund them appropriately.

Sideroxylon · 23rd July 2021, 12:11 AM

How good would a Hawaiian holiday with Jen and the kids be?

lionking · 23rd July 2021, 02:26 AM

Well the states have not agreed to give their vaccines to NSW. And fair enough. No way known would NSW do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

The Atheist · 23rd July 2021, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

4 not in isolation is no big issue. It makes contact tracing quite straightforward. I expect 0 tomorrow and restrictions easing next week.

I hope you're right, and I'm not on the ground to see what's happening, but I'm gobsmacked that things like racing are continuing. The potential routes for infection look wide open.

Originally Posted by novaphile

I think we can agree that the half-arsed response from the Liberal Premier of NSW and the half-arsed response from the Liberal Prime Minister of the country, have led to the problems we're having now.

Dan Andrews certainly put the knife into NSW, calling for a ring of steel around Sydney. A touch rich in the face of 800 dead in Victoria?

lionking · 23rd July 2021, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Dan Andrews certainly put the knife into NSW, calling for a ring of steel around Sydney. A touch rich in the face of 800 dead in Victoria?

I’m getting sick of this. Almost all deaths were in Commonwealth controlled Age Care Homes. How many died in State controlled Age Care Homes? Zero.

Who controls Commonwealth Homes? Morrison. Who controls State Homes? Andrews.

Get your facts right before posting in this thread.

Sideroxylon · 23rd July 2021, 07:40 AM

There isn’t a state or territory that is dealing with NSW any differently. Even NZ.

The Fool · 23rd July 2021, 07:59 AM

It’s a national emergency here in NSW. Victoria…..please send us all your good vaccine and some beer.

The Atheist · 23rd July 2021, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I’m getting sick of this. Almost all deaths were in Commonwealth controlled Age Care Homes.

Yet, the same thing didn't happen in other states.

And it looks to me more like 2/3 than "almost all" deaths. https://www.health.gov.au/resources/...sidential-care

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

There isn’t a state or territory that is dealing with NSW any differently. Even NZ.

We haven't had too many removalists spreading it around here, so there must be some small difference in the geography, maybe.

Today's numbers will be interesting.

14th July 2021, 03:52 PM	#81
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So you are saying that a Victorian family trying to return home to Victoria should be denied access at the Murray and turned around back INTO NSW to fend for themselves with no support? Nice strawman you have there mate - want a hand setting fire to it? Where did I suggest any of the italicised points? I specifically noted removals, because that offers multiple infection points, and I'm sure it's something that could be managed by state authorities. We managed weeks of total shutdown with no removals last year - it's pretty simple stuff. You even quoted me posting this piece in terms of people breaking rules: His infection is linked to the family of four who returned from Sydney and broke quarantine rules by visiting the Coles and a petrol station.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

17th July 2021, 11:24 PM	#82
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	Talking about breaking lockdown rules, the three removalists who seeded the current Victorian outbreak have been found 300km away in western NSW despite being under quarantine. Two are carrying the virus. Firstly, why were they not in hotel quarantine given their form? Secondly when they were picked up, they were told to quarantine for another 14 days? Why were they not arrested for endangering public health? https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...d-19-c-3429690 The NSW government has botched this monumentally. Yesterday it was announced that everyone except emergency workers in the Fairfield district needed to stay at home. Today it was announced that people who worked in retail could leave, along with people in manufacturing. Gladys simply avoided questions like this in the presser, while whinging about how hard her job is. Pathetic. She also said she had been engaging business groups and that was why the lockdown rules were eased. Daniel Andrews doesn’t waste time with business groups. Pictures today of crowds at Manly and reports that Gucci and other posh stores were open. Many of the Sydney public are being irresponsible. It looks like they have a government they deserve.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

18th July 2021, 03:03 PM	#83
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by The Atheist Nice strawman you have there mate - want a hand setting fire to it? Where did I suggest any of the italicised points? I specifically noted removals, because that offers multiple infection points, and I'm sure it's something that could be managed by state authorities. We managed weeks of total shutdown with no removals last year - it's pretty simple stuff. You even quoted me posting this piece in terms of people breaking rules: His infection is linked to the family of four who returned from Sydney and broke quarantine rules by visiting the Coles and a petrol station. Whatever. So what IS your solution to stop returning Victorians from NSW who MAY have the virus from visiting anywhere on the way home and then ensuring they isolate for the requisite period? A police escort?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th July 2021, 03:12 PM	#84
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by lionking Talking about breaking lockdown rules, the three removalists who seeded the current Victorian outbreak have been found 300km away in western NSW despite being under quarantine. Two are carrying the virus. Firstly, why were they not in hotel quarantine given their form? Secondly when they were picked up, they were told to quarantine for another 14 days? Why were they not arrested for endangering public health? https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...d-19-c-3429690 The NSW government has botched this monumentally. Yesterday it was announced that everyone except emergency workers in the Fairfield district needed to stay at home. Today it was announced that people who worked in retail could leave, along with people in manufacturing. Gladys simply avoided questions like this in the presser, while whinging about how hard her job is. Pathetic. She also said she had been engaging business groups and that was why the lockdown rules were eased. Daniel Andrews doesn’t waste time with business groups. Pictures today of crowds at Manly and reports that Gucci and other posh stores were open. Many of the Sydney public are being irresponsible. It looks like they have a government they deserve. From your link: Quote: The men were escorted by police to Greater Sydney and are now being instructed to isolate for 14 days. This is roughly the equivalent of "helping police with their inquiries". It's a euphemism for something like "arrested, transferred in a paddy-wagon, charged, and put under house arrest".
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th July 2021, 04:13 PM	#85
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander From your link:This is roughly the equivalent of "helping police with their inquiries". It's a euphemism for something like "arrested, transferred in a paddy-wagon, charged, and put under house arrest". I’m not so sure. Let’s see.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

18th July 2021, 07:55 PM	#86
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,367	Good riddance. Katie Hopkins to be deported from Australia ‘imminently’ after visa cancelled Quote: Minister Karen Andrews says British far-right commentator entered country with support of NSW government to appear on Seven Network’s Big Brother VIP The Australian government has cancelled Katie Hopkins’ visa after the far-right commentator boasted about breaching hotel quarantine conditions. The cancellation was announced by the home affairs minister, Karen Andrews, on Monday – and follows a decision by Endemol Shine Australia to cancel her contract to appear on Seven Network’s Big Brother VIP. Hopkins will now be required to leave the country. Hopkins, 46, broadcast a live video from what she claimed was a Sydney hotel room on Saturday morning, describing Covid-19 lockdowns as “the greatest hoax in human history” while joking about elaborate plans to breach quarantine rules. In the Instagram video, which is no longer available to view, she said she was trying to “frighten” security guards by answering her hotel door naked and maskless. Guardian Australia understands Hopkins is likely to leave the country on a flight departing Sydney mid-afternoon on Monday.
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

18th July 2021, 07:58 PM	#87
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by lionking I’m not so sure. Let’s see. Like you, I agree they should be arrested and charged with knowingly breaching whatever public health controls exist for COVID. It's pretty deliberate, and they get no sympathy from me.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th July 2021, 07:59 PM	#88
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,367	All my American friends (and the hosts of the SGU) are currently laughing at the word "removalist".
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

18th July 2021, 10:04 PM	#89
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So what IS your solution to stop returning Victorians from NSW who MAY have the virus from visiting anywhere on the way home and then ensuring they isolate for the requisite period? A police escort? Taking people by secure transport to a quarantine facility seems to work well for us.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

19th July 2021, 12:54 AM	#90
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	There is still a political connection to this (yes, removed). The mother of two of the removalists (why is this funny to yanks?) has died of covid. Now did the sons give her covid or did she give it to them? I think the latter. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...19-p58b2g.html Quote: The mother of two Sydney removalists who tested positive to COVID-19 was found dead in the family home on Monday morning. The body of the woman, aged in her 50s, was found by emergency services at the home in Green Valley in Sydney’s west and she was later confirmed as a COVID-19 case.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

19th July 2021, 08:27 PM	#91
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,367	Couldn't happen to a nicer guy: Christian Porter and barrister Sue Chrysanthou may have to pay $500,000 in legal fees to Jo Dyer Quote: Justice Tom Thawley tells hearing costs claim is a ‘lump sum of $500-odd thousand’ Christian Porter and his high-profile barrister could be forced to pay more than $500,000 in legal fees to a friend of the woman who accused the former attorney general of raping her three decades ago, a court has heard. Porter strenuously denies the allegation. Porter’s defamation case against the ABC was dropped in May, but a separate case has continued to drag on, and threatens to cost the former attorney general $500,000 in costs. In May, a high school debating friend of the woman at the centre of the case, Jo Dyer, successfully restrained Porter’s star silk, Sue Chrysanthou SC, from acting in the ABC defamation case over what she said was a conflict of interest arising out of a meeting between the two women in November last year.
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20th July 2021, 01:34 AM	#92
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by The Atheist Taking people by secure transport to a quarantine facility seems to work well for us. We would need a fleet of buses and/or trains to do that here, given the numbers and the distances. That creates a perfect super-spreader environment. Start with 50 clear on a bus and one infected, 51 infected get off at the other end plus the driver probably. Also, I don't think Victoria has a super-large quarantine facility yet. Nor NSW. So we bus them to the Darwin one instead? As for keeping families together, and making arrangements for the vehicles they have to leave behind... Awesome outcome. Got another?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

20th July 2021, 01:36 AM	#93
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by arthwollipot All my American friends (and the hosts of the SGU) are currently laughing at the word "removalist". In US parlance, a "removalist" is an advocate for removing native peoples from traditional land. It would appear to be a negative description.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

20th July 2021, 01:38 AM	#94
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by lionking There is still a political connection to this (yes, removed). The mother of two of the removalists (why is this funny to yanks?) has died of covid. Now did the sons give her covid or did she give it to them? I think the latter. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...19-p58b2g.html Why didn't she go to hospital? Or did the COVID kill her very quickly?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

20th July 2021, 01:54 AM	#95
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Why didn't she go to hospital? Or did the COVID kill her very quickly? Latest reports is that the whole family, including the two removalists, was offered hotel quarantine after the mother tested positive, but rejected it, no doubt so the sons could illegally carry on their business. And it is reported that they have used the “don’t understand the language” excuse. How do you think you and I would fare if we littered in Singapore? In my two trips there I don’t recall any “no littering” signs, but we knew the rules. The “don’t understand” excuse would be laughed at there. And it should be here.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

20th July 2021, 03:10 AM	#96
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander We would need a fleet of buses and/or trains to do that here, given the numbers and the distances. Bollocks. Your economy is a zillion times bigger than ours, and we're managing it fine, with exactly the same issues. I think the distance argument is plain red herring. I'm sure you could have facilities in Cobram and Echuca, so it's not like you'd have to take people to Melbourne. You go your way and we'll go ours. Like I said way back, you're allowing people to spread the virus between states for dumb reasons. You're costing the economy billions in lockdowns and your defence is, "We can't spend a few million to work through this", or even better: "You'd need a fleet of buses!" Fleet of buses or $50 billion, months-long shutdowns and a number of deaths. I'll accept your argument that Australia is much less efficient at these things than NZ, though.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

20th July 2021, 05:15 AM	#97
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,325	Well, SA is now in lockdown. And this time it won't be ending because some guy lied to health officials about what he was doing at a pizza place. I don't know whose fault it is since it's not caused by the removalists.
	__________________

20th July 2021, 07:27 AM	#98
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by The Atheist Bollocks. Your economy is a zillion times bigger than ours, and we're managing it fine, with exactly the same issues. I think the distance argument is plain red herring. I'm sure you could have facilities in Cobram and Echuca, so it's not like you'd have to take people to Melbourne. You go your way and we'll go ours. Like I said way back, you're allowing people to spread the virus between states for dumb reasons. You're costing the economy billions in lockdowns and your defence is, "We can't spend a few million to work through this", or even better: "You'd need a fleet of buses!" Fleet of buses or $50 billion, months-long shutdowns and a number of deaths. I'll accept your argument that Australia is much less efficient at these things than NZ, though. ORLY? With Scomo in charge, when do you think these might get built? This year? Next year? Year after that? Or never? So let's say we catch a couple of hundred border jumpers on the Murray each day. How do we get them to Cobram or Echuca? On the non-existent train? Paddle-steamer down the river? Only one option left: buses. How long by bus from Mildura or Khancoban to Cobram? Plenty of time for infectious passengers to salt the whole bus. But this is utterly ridiculous. You have proposed a solution that uses resources that don't exist, that nobody will pay for, and would just exacerbate the problem. It is laughably unsuitable. Never mind the actual cost which is entirely beside the point so I never mentioned it.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

20th July 2021, 11:31 AM	#99
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Never mind the actual cost which is entirely beside the point so I never mentioned it. No, you never mentioned it because like your entire "argument" it's egregious bollocks. Hundreds of people on the Murray? You're in Ga-ga land. The cost of the lockdown was estimated to be $A1 billion a week. And that was before Vic and SA joined the club, so it will be well over $2b a week now. And (as you know very well) there are towns other than Echuca and Cobram; I picked the two on the most major roads. Do you need a map of Victoria as well as an economics lesson? Please do go on, this is hilarious.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

20th July 2021, 01:12 PM	#100
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,614	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Good riddance. Katie Hopkins to be deported from Australia ‘imminently’ after visa cancelled Quote: <snip> Hopkins, 46, broadcast a live video from what she claimed was a Sydney hotel room on Saturday morning, describing Covid-19 lockdowns as “the greatest hoax in human history” while joking about elaborate plans to breach quarantine rules. In the Instagram video, which is no longer available to view, she said she was trying to “frighten” security guards by answering her hotel door naked and maskless. <snip> Damn. Is she that bad looking? I looked at photos of her face, and it didn't seem like it should strike terror into the hearts of the average security guard. I guess the rest of her must be a real wreck.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

20th July 2021, 02:36 PM	#101
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,742	Originally Posted by The Atheist No, you never mentioned it because like your entire "argument" it's egregious bollocks. Hundreds of people on the Murray? You're in Ga-ga land. The cost of the lockdown was estimated to be $A1 billion a week. And that was before Vic and SA joined the club, so it will be well over $2b a week now. And (as you know very well) there are towns other than Echuca and Cobram; I picked the two on the most major roads. Do you need a map of Victoria as well as an economics lesson? Please do go on, this is hilarious. LOL. Tell me. With this solution of yours in NZ, why don't you put offenders on the train to Stewart Island? Or fly them there. And just so you know why I LOL, I lived in the Murray region for many years and still visit regularly. Know the place well.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

21st July 2021, 03:44 PM	#102
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	Gladys has gone full Trumpian now. At yesterday’s press conference she said the reason the infections were so high was because of the high number of testing. It doesn’t work in reverse of course, where a momentary drop in numbers was due to the work of the government.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

21st July 2021, 10:39 PM	#103
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	I raised the question in the Covid thread that I remain unconvinced you can actually control the Indian variant. Numbers of people not isolating found testing positive hit their highest number today, so it's clearly well established in the community. People have to shop, and lots have to work, and it will continue to spread at small numbers. Has anyone suggested a possible way forward if cases don't drop to zero? It will be a bloody long lockdown if you wait for everyone to be vaccinated. I think you might have to get used to the idea that elimination is not possible without a China-style total ban on movement, which isn't going to happen.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

21st July 2021, 11:16 PM	#104
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 26,172	Originally Posted by The Atheist I raised the question in the Covid thread that I remain unconvinced you can actually control the Indian variant. Numbers of people not isolating found testing positive hit their highest number today, so it's clearly well established in the community. People have to shop, and lots have to work, and it will continue to spread at small numbers. Has anyone suggested a possible way forward if cases don't drop to zero? It will be a bloody long lockdown if you wait for everyone to be vaccinated. I think you might have to get used to the idea that elimination is not possible without a China-style total ban on movement, which isn't going to happen. Fast hard lockdowns have worked. The way NSW went in half arsed this was always going to happen. And now it has exposed Australia’s half arsed vaccination program. That’s why we are facing decisions Turks colourfully describe as choosing a grip on a stick with **** on both ends.

22nd July 2021, 12:58 AM	#105
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,367	Morrison actually apologised today. He breezed past it pretty quickly, but the words "I'm sorry" did pass his lips. Quote: Now, as I said yesterday, I take responsibility for the vaccination program. I also take responsibility for the challenges we’ve had. Obviously some things within our control, some things that are not. And I am keen to ensure as we have been over these many months that we’ve been turning this around. I’m sorry that we haven’t been able to achieve the marks that we had hoped for at the beginning of this year. Of course I am. But what’s more important is that we’re totally focused on ensuring that we’ve been turning this around. source
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22nd July 2021, 02:59 AM	#106
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Fast hard lockdowns have worked. They worked against the earlier and less-infectious variants, not the Indian one. The fact that the highest number of infected people in the community was today is a deeply troubling statistic. I genuinely think you've missed the bus this time. It's so easy to catch that I can't see how you're going to stop it. We're pulling the plug on travel tomorrow night, I hear.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd July 2021, 04:54 AM	#107
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 26,172	Originally Posted by The Atheist They worked against the earlier and less-infectious variants, not the Indian one. The fact that the highest number of infected people in the community was today is a deeply troubling statistic. I genuinely think you've missed the bus this time. It's so easy to catch that I can't see how you're going to stop it. We're pulling the plug on travel tomorrow night, I hear. No, we have had success in other states with this variant and they will again. NSW is going to be considering BJ moves in the face of a long crippling lockdown.
	Last edited by Sideroxylon; 22nd July 2021 at 04:55 AM.

22nd July 2021, 06:49 AM	#108
Planigale Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 5,617	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon No, we have had success in other states with this variant and they will again. NSW is going to be considering BJ moves in the face of a long crippling lockdown. Is this Strine for being on your knees, having to take what cums?

22nd July 2021, 02:46 PM	#109
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 27,282	Whatever NSW has done to combat the latest outbreak is not working. The number of new cases are still increasing.
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22nd July 2021, 03:19 PM	#110
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 26,172	Originally Posted by Planigale Is this Strine for being on your knees, having to take what cums?

22nd July 2021, 06:26 PM	#111
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,754	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon No, we have had success in other states with this variant and they will again. NSW is going to be considering BJ moves in the face of a long crippling lockdown. I'm not holding my breath. Victoria has had an increase of people not in isolation with the disease. Very small numbers, certainly, from 2 to 4. I hope you're right, but I remain unconvinced right now. Originally Posted by Planigale Is this Strine for being on your knees, having to take what cums? I'd nominate that, except then you'd get noticed and probably cop a card. Comment of the week at least.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd July 2021, 10:55 PM	#112
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	Originally Posted by The Atheist I'm not holding my breath. Victoria has had an increase of people not in isolation with the disease. Very small numbers, certainly, from 2 to 4. I hope you're right, but I remain unconvinced right now. 4 not in isolation is no big issue. It makes contact tracing quite straightforward. I expect 0 tomorrow and restrictions easing next week.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd July 2021, 11:51 PM	#113
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 3,372	I think we can agree that the half-arsed response from the Liberal Premier of NSW and the half-arsed response from the Liberal Prime Minister of the country, have led to the problems we're having now. And, if you look carefully, you'll notice that Scummo's 'apology' wasn't an apology for everything he has done wrong, and continues to do wrong, but an 'apology' that the numbers aren't good. In case you're wondering why I'm highlighting the political party of the two main offenders, it's because I'm heartily sick of them both making a fuss about Victoria, because the Victorian Premier is from the Labor party, while remaining conspicuously silent about the complete cluster-**** happening in other Liberal States. At least the Liberal Premier of South Australia has been on the ball with fast lock-downs, and an adequately staffed group of contact tracers. Meanwhile, our hospitals and ambulance services remain on the precipice because successive right-wing governments have refused to fund them appropriately.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

23rd July 2021, 12:11 AM	#114
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 26,172	How good would a Hawaiian holiday with Jen and the kids be?

23rd July 2021, 02:26 AM	#115
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,398	Well the states have not agreed to give their vaccines to NSW. And fair enough. No way known would NSW do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill