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Old 8th March 2022, 04:08 AM   #281
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Truss told the committee that the HO and FO have been preparing for this since last year.
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Old 8th March 2022, 04:09 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
And here the government is preparing for the first group of 25.000 fugitives, with a next group of another 25.000 fugitives after that.
And this is just the beginning.

(I've just listened to our prime minister explaining this).

Edit:
Even the possibilities of them finding work here are being made more easy for them.
Ireland has prepared to take 15000
Moldova one the poorest country in Europe has welcomed more than 80,000
Meanwhile James Cleverly, Minister for European Neighbourhood and the Americas says refugees want to stay near home!

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 8th March 2022 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 8th March 2022, 04:44 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ireland has prepared to take 15000
Moldova one the poorest country in Europe has welcomed more than 80,000
Meanwhile James Cleverly, Minister for European Neighbourhood and the Americas says refugees want to stay near home!
And apparently about 12000 people here have volunteered their home as available to accept fugitives.

As we're only a small country, imagine what good the UK could do in this departement.
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Old 8th March 2022, 04:49 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which translated from this government's newspeak means "I've made an announcement about setting up a visa centre".
That is so unfair. When Patel said she had set up a visa centre in Calais, she meant 'I am doing it!' (as one's spouse will say when asked to do anything). Patel translated: 'Not done yet but I am sayin' it has been done because that cow my learned friend opposite isn't goin' to get one up on me'.
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Old 8th March 2022, 04:51 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
And apparently about 12000 people here have volunteered their home as available to accept fugitives.

As we're only a small country, imagine what good the UK could do in this departement.
Yeah, but you are in the EU, see.
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Old 8th March 2022, 04:55 AM   #286
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So the former Commons Speaker, the loquacious John Bercow, has been found guilty of 21 incidents of bullying by an 'independent panel' and now they want to cancel his Commons pass and are recommending he be cancelled as an MP.
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Old 8th March 2022, 04:55 AM   #287
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We've become a mockery of the very values the Tories proclaim of their own.
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Old 8th March 2022, 06:03 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So the former Commons Speaker, the loquacious John Bercow, has been found guilty of 21 incidents of bullying by an 'independent panel' and now they want to cancel his Commons pass and are recommending he be cancelled as an MP.
Mmm.. not quite, because he is no longer an MP.

They've said that had he still been a Member of Parliament, they would recommnded his expulsion - I guess trying to be clear how seriously they take it. Too late.
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Old 8th March 2022, 06:38 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Have we ever had a more incompetent government than the one we have today? Serious question. Many governments have made huge mistakes, many have implemented policies I think are abhorrent, but I can't recall any government so thoroughly incompetent from top to bottom as these lot.
I've had the same thought. I would much prefer someone competent, even if I didn't agree with their policies (not that I agree with most of what this lot stands for). At least you know people only have to deal with the intended consequences, not a whole boatload of unintended ones, and we won't be an international laughing stock.
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Old 8th March 2022, 06:42 AM   #290
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Dad's just got off the phone to a close friend in France - who taught himself English via the radio.

Apparently in France,

Johnson is a laughing stock, and there is lots of local speculation that he's in the pockets of the oligarchs.
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Old 8th March 2022, 06:42 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Mmm.. not quite, because he is no longer an MP.

They've said that had he still been a Member of Parliament, they would recommnded his expulsion - I guess trying to be clear how seriously they take it. Too late.
Still meaningless, as he wasn't one was he? Likewise he doesn't have a pass to the Houses of Parliament anyway, either.


Quote:
The panel said it agreed with the commissioner's findings that Mr Bercow had been "a serial bully".

It added that Mr Bercow's conduct "was so serious that, had he still been a Member of Parliament, we would have determined that he should be expelled by resolution of the House", and that he would be banned from being getting a pass giving him access to Parliament's buildings.
Quote:
Mr Bercow, who resigned as an MP in 2019, said he had never applied for a Parliamentary pass and does not want one, but could still go to Parliament as a guest of another pass holder.
BBC


In other words, all the stuff about his being 'banned for life' from the House of Commons and barred as an MP (had he still been one) is just a lot of vindictive guff, whichever way you read it.


I am sure he would have had a vote of no confidence as Prime Minister, had he been one (claim the IED).
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Old 8th March 2022, 06:52 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Still meaningless, as he wasn't one was he? Likewise he doesn't have a pass to the Houses of Parliament anyway, either.
Not quite sure what you mean here. The Speaker is also a sitting MP

"In addition, they remain a constituency Member of Parliament (MP), are part of the Privy Council, and represent the Commons to the Monarch, the House of Lords and other authorities." (wiki)
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Old 8th March 2022, 06:58 AM   #293
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It's very much too little, too late.

The real investigation should be into how earlier allegations did not result in a similar conclusion. It's not like Bercow was whiter-than-white up until now.
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:08 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Not quite sure what you mean here. The Speaker is also a sitting MP

"In addition, they remain a constituency Member of Parliament (MP), are part of the Privy Council, and represent the Commons to the Monarch, the House of Lords and other authorities." (wiki)
He hasn't been an MP since 2019
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:08 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
It's very much too little, too late.

The real investigation should be into how earlier allegations did not result in a similar conclusion. It's not like Bercow was whiter-than-white up until now.
Precedent is that the PM has full confidence in him and should make him Home Secretary.
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:35 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Not quite sure what you mean here. The Speaker is also a sitting MP

"In addition, they remain a constituency Member of Parliament (MP), are part of the Privy Council, and represent the Commons to the Monarch, the House of Lords and other authorities." (wiki)
Bercow is neither Speaker nor an MP and hasn't been since 2019.
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:49 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Dad's just got off the phone to a close friend in France - who taught himself English via the radio.

Apparently in France,

Johnson is a laughing stock, and there is lots of local speculation that he's in the pockets of the oligarchs.

Same as here, then.
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:58 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Dad's just got off the phone to a close friend in France - who taught himself English via the radio.

Apparently in France,

Johnson is a laughing stock, and there is lots of local speculation that he's in the pockets of the oligarchs.
Should have told him there is no need to speculate - we know he and the Tory party are in the pocket of the oligarchs!
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Old 8th March 2022, 08:17 AM   #299
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Seems Bercow is being suspended by the Labour Party now. I expect it is a formality.

ISTM the Kathryn Stone panel who found against Bercow would have recommended his cancellation as an MP (an exclusion which would still have had to go through the proper protocols so would not be guaranteed just because it recommends it) had he still been an MP, although he is not, or technically an MP had he still been Speaker of the Commons, which he is not and has not been since 2019. So that clears that up.

Looks like Bercow must have really rattled Putin's Brexit plans when he almost put the kybosh on the antics of Putin's puppets who were paid handsomely to execute his cunning attack on the European Union. I guess the refugee situation is the same. The government doesn't want to upset Putin by seeming to be welcoming Ukrainian refugees as a result of Putin's evil policies.


(NB this is tongue-in-cheek.)
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Old 8th March 2022, 08:52 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He hasn't been an MP since 2019
I realise that, but Vixen said "Still meaningless, as he wasn't one was he? " rather than "... isn't one ...". I was just trying to clarify her meaning.
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Old 8th March 2022, 09:53 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I realise that, but Vixen said "Still meaningless, as he wasn't one was he? " rather than "... isn't one ...". I was just trying to clarify her meaning.
'Wasn't one' as of the time of the release of the report (today) or when it concluded (whenever that was).

Sigh. Bercow was cancelled as an MP whether he was one or not or is one or not or whether he was one or not when he was the speaker in the Commons - and anyway none of this was the case since 2019 and whether or not there was or was not a proper motion put in place to have him vetoed as an MP, had he been an MP or if he was or is an MP, which technically he would have been whilst a speaker, although he has not been or is the speaker since 2019, so one can say he was cancelled as an MP even if he was not or is not an MP because the independent panel say he would have been had he been one and the vote had gone through, even though he was not or is not, and he has been banned for life from having a House of Commons Pass, even though he has not applied for one so he can't be banned as he doesn't have a pass but can still go in anyway. However the point is, Bercow is CANCELLED as an MP were he to be one and BANNED for life from having a HoC pass even it he doesn't qualify for one anyway, but only were he to become an MP and apply for a pass then despite the panel's 'recommendation' it is not guaranteed he WOULD be cancelled and if the vote was not carried then it is not sure he could be banned for life from having a parliamentary pass should he apply for one should he succeed in becoming an MP, which he cannot at the moment as he is now suspended by the Labour Party, although he could stand as an Independent.

Not to downplay the devastating effects of workplace bullying on the many areas of life of an employee who suffers it, this report into the three individuals seems to have taken an unduly long time to complete and one suspects it has wandered way off its original aim and is more in political revenge from the enemies Bercow made along the way.
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Old 8th March 2022, 03:29 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Boris on Sky News

Question, the UK has issued just 50 visas to Ukrainian so far when more than a million people have fled the country, are you happy with that?

Boris, I'm not sure those numbers are right, no country in Europe has done more to resettle vulnerable people, since 2015, than the UK
I love the level of self-deception involved when he only includes so called "quota-refugees", which are a drop in the bucket compared to all other international refugees.

Isn't this what Brexit was all about? Being able to aid belligerent states waging war, no matter how just it happens to be, while refusing to directly aid those civilians caught in the crossfire?
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Old 8th March 2022, 03:42 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I love the level of self-deception involved when he only includes so called "quota-refugees", which are a drop in the bucket compared to all other international refugees.

Isn't this what Brexit was all about? Being able to aid belligerent states waging war, no matter how just it happens to be, while refusing to directly aid those civilians caught in the crossfire?
Brexit was all about throwing the eastern Europeans out of the country. Why would he want to invite them back in again?
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:43 AM   #304
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Home Affairs Committee on BBC parliament channel. Ukraine's UK ambassador Vadym Prystaiko told MPs there have been "bureaucratic hassles" for years for Ukraine citizens coming to the UK.
His own wife couldn't initially get a visa to join him, despite him being his nation's ambassador.
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:45 AM   #305
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At PMQs Boris said the UK has done more to resettle vulnerable people since 2015 than any other country in Europe.
Probably one of the most barefaced lies he has ever told.
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:59 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
At PMQs Boris said the UK has done more to resettle vulnerable people since 2015 than any other country in Europe.
Probably one of the most barefaced lies he has ever told.
I disagree. I think with hindsight, those EU workers proping up the NHS, our hospitality businesses, UK farming etc were in a vulnerable position and brexit has resettled them outside the UK.
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:00 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
At PMQs Boris said the UK has done more to resettle vulnerable people since 2015 than any other country in Europe.
Probably one of the most barefaced lies he has ever told.
Boris Johnson's words rarely match his actions.

Quote:
13:16
Boris Johnson has refused to drop visa requirements for Ukrainians fleeing the country as Russian forces continued to bombard Ukraine’s towns and cities.

The European Union has allowed visa-free travel for Ukrainians, but the UK prime minister insisted that the UK was right to require the paperwork to be completed.

Speaking in the Commons today, Johnson said:

We’ve already got 1,000 people in under the existing scheme, that number will climb very sharply. No one has been turned away.

Johnson said security checks were vital to prevent Russian agents from entering the UK.

We know how unscrupulous Putin can be in his methods, it would not be right to expose this country to unnecessary security risk and we will not do it.

We are going to be as generous as we can possibly be, but we must have checks.
GUARDIAN


Not sure how making people spend large sums of money on visas keeps the undercover Russian spies out.

Ludicrous excuses #102 and #103:
  • Lincoln is 'already full up' (It is the 4th least populated area of England).
  • Last time Russian spies stepped foot on our soil they poisoned the Skirpals.
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:04 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
I disagree. I think with hindsight, those EU workers proping up the NHS, our hospitality businesses, UK farming etc were in a vulnerable position and brexit has resettled them outside the UK.
He didn't say where he had resettled them
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:06 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Brexit was all about throwing the eastern Europeans out of the country. Why would he want to invite them back in again?
That's just a damn lie.

It was only ever about throwing out the wrong Eastern Europeans, it wasn't meant for their cleaner, painter and plumber to be thrown out!

I have had folk around here tell me apparently completely seriously that it's terrible they have lost their cleaner because she decided to back to Poland/Albania/etc.

Brexit means Brexit but at no inconvenience to me!
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:06 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
At PMQs Boris said the UK has done more to resettle vulnerable people since 2015 than any other country in Europe.
Probably one of the most barefaced lies he has ever told.
I think he's probably right, the only problem is we've helped them resettle anywhere but the UK.
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Old 9th March 2022, 10:03 AM   #311
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So the British embassy in Brussels doesn’t issue visas to Ukrainians. That’s done by a private company at Brussels station . Someone’s making money out of their misery. A private company has been contracted to do the processing.
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Old 9th March 2022, 01:28 PM   #312
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Daniel Kawczynski Conservative MP for Shrewsbury tweeted

@DKShrewsbury
British Left wing parties demand Britain takes in more Ukrainian refugees. This is illiterate and immoral. When war is over Ukrainians will need to return home to rebuild their country. We should be supporting Ukrainian refugees in frontline states like Poland & Romania

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Old 9th March 2022, 01:56 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Daniel Kawczynski Conservative MP for Shrewsbury tweeted

@DKShrewsbury
British Left wing parties demand Britain takes in more Ukrainian refugees. This is illiterate and immoral. When war is over Ukrainians will need to return home to rebuild their country. We should be supporting Ukrainian refugees in frontline states like Poland & Romania
Just when I thought I couldn't despise him more
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Old 9th March 2022, 05:58 PM   #314
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With the value of the Ruble plummeting, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tories have their worst fundraising for years..
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:14 PM   #315
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Several MPs including Conservative MP Bob Seeley and several Lords have raised that lawyers representing Russian oligarchs have threatened national newspapers saying that reporting parliamentary debates in the British parliament "can be unlawful & seriously defamatory to their clients"
It leaves them open to legal action and they should desist from reporting any word that defame their clients.
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Old 9th March 2022, 09:05 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Several MPs including Conservative MP Bob Seeley and several Lords have raised that lawyers representing Russian oligarchs have threatened national newspapers saying that reporting parliamentary debates in the British parliament "can be unlawful & seriously defamatory to their clients"
It leaves them open to legal action and they should desist from reporting any word that defame their clients.

Link?
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Old 9th March 2022, 09:08 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Link?
More importantly, have the accusers substantiated their accusations?
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Old 9th March 2022, 09:14 PM   #318
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Erskine May: Protections for publication outside Parliament of parliamentary proceedings

Quote:
Although the privilege of freedom of speech protects what is said in debate in either House, this privilege does not to the same degree apply to the publication of debates or proceedings outside Parliament. But the publication, whether by order of the House or not, of a fair and accurate account of a debate in either House is protected by the same principle as that which protects fair reports of proceedings in courts of justice, that the advantage of publicity to the community at large outweighs any private injury resulting from the publication, unless malice is proved. Described as ‘qualified privilege’, this is a matter of common law, rather than of parliamentary privilege.
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Old 10th March 2022, 03:26 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Link?
It was on a BBC Parliament channel roundup last night, don't have a link.
They named some of the law firms involved but I can't remember what they were

Here is a Guardian piece from a month or so ago about other attempts by lawyers for Russian Oligarchs to stop the press reporting

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...alists-mps-say

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 10th March 2022 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 10th March 2022, 03:28 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More importantly, have the accusers substantiated their accusations?
They are just trying to intimidate the press.
Anything said in Parliament is a public record and published in Hansard which anyone can read.
'Qualified' Parliamentary Privilege covers it all.
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