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 International Skeptics Forum Continuation Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part V

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 Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

 1st March 2022, 03:54 PM #81 Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit     Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 6,977 Originally Posted by Petra What's highlighted is speculation. We can work out ourselves, Blue Mountain, that taking a sample from a single pneumonia patient who hasn't been shown to be suffering the ill effects of a "novel" virus is not the way to construct a genome sequence. And they decided on this sequence BEFORE any other samples were looked at. I can supply informed speculation from my career as a computer programmer. A programmer's job is to use something called a programming language to write programs and get a computer to do something the programmer wants it to do (known as output.) For example, here's a little program that implements the Fizz Buzz game for values 1 through 100: Code: ```#!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; foreach my \$n (1 .. 100) { my \$sw = 0; # Print "Fizz" if n is divisible by 3 \$sw = 1, print "Fizz " if ! (\$n % 3); # Print "Buzz" if n is divisible by 5 \$sw = 1, print "Buzz " if ! (\$n % 5); # Print the number if n isn't divisible by 3 or 5 print "\$n " if ! \$sw; print "\n"; }``` This code is then put into a special class of program known as an interpreter to run it, or to a compiler to produce an intermediate object that will be used to create the final program. The point I'm trying to make here is you can't just take any random sequence of characters and words and feed them to an interpreter or compiler: all you'll get back is a bunch of errors. As we say in the trade, "Garbage in, garbage out." Ditto for a genome. The ATGC base-pair sequences in the genome comprise source code. These are fed into a cell, where the sequences tell the cell to create messenger RNA (mRNA—where have we seen that before?) that's read by a ribosome (akin to a computer interpreter) that eventually creates a protein (output.) Feed a bunch of garbage DNA sequences into this process and you won't get any usable proteins out of it. Quote: It's all smoke'n'mirrors, it's all computer fabrication, based on the hypothetical not the real. Most certainly not. As I've just shown, feed garbage into a computer and you get garbage out. Feed garbage DNA into a cell and you'll probably get nothing. The SARS-Cov-2 virus does things, namely taking over the cell's reproductive machinery to produce more viruses. Quote: What we know is that covid doesn't have a distinctive set of symptoms and some people who test positive have no symptoms at all. People who come down with COVID are indeed ill, and to date about 5 million people have died from it. While it's true there isn't a distinctive (dare I say, definitive) set of symptoms—it resembles influenza and even a bad cold—people are getting sick and are dying from it. We use things like PCR testing to determine exactly what it is that people who present with symptoms are sick with. Quote: How do we know that the genome they've come up with is for a "novel" coronavirus, it could be any old virus. We have the genomes of other viruses, and can compare a virus found in the wild against this database of known viruses. This is how we know SARS-Cov-2 similar to the original SARS virus: a lot of the base pairs line up, but there are sufficient differences to give it a new name. In addition, the disease caused by the new virus isn't as harsh as the original SARS was, which had a tendency to kill its host before it had a chance to be transmitted to a new one. That's why it died out so quickly. You appear to know nothing about genetics, DNA, RNA, or molecular biology, which probably accounts for why you entertain such crazy ideas about SARS-Cov-2 and COVID-19. Quote: From paper by Dr Mark Bailey and Dr John Bevan-Smith I'll see your paper and raise you 148,000 papers on SARS-Cov-2 and 233,000 papers on COVID-19. After you've acquired at least an M.Sc. in virology, genomics, or molecular biology and can show that more than a handful of these papers are materially incorrect, I'll consider that perhaps Baily and Bevan-Smith are on to something. Until then, I'll side with the massive consensus among scientists in the appropriate disciplines that this virus exists, is making people sick, and is killing them. __________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
 1st March 2022, 06:21 PM #82 MBDK Critical Thinker     Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 313 Originally Posted by Blue Mountain As I've just shown, feed garbage into a computer and you get garbage out. I may have also seen this in some member's footer, but it bears reminding and makes me wonder if Petra's ancestry includes a member or two of Parliament at the time. "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) Originally Posted by Blue Mountain You appear to know nothing about genetics, DNA, RNA, or molecular biology, which probably accounts for why you entertain such crazy ideas about SARS-Cov-2 and COVID-19. IMHO, I've never seen such undeceptive appearance.
 1st March 2022, 07:28 PM #83 Petra Critical Thinker   Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 262 Originally Posted by Blue Mountain I can supply informed speculation from my career as a computer programmer. A programmer's job is to use something called a programming language to write programs and get a computer to do something the programmer wants it to do (known as output.) For example, here's a little program that implements the Fizz Buzz game for values 1 through 100: Code: ```#!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; foreach my \$n (1 .. 100) { my \$sw = 0; # Print "Fizz" if n is divisible by 3 \$sw = 1, print "Fizz " if ! (\$n % 3); # Print "Buzz" if n is divisible by 5 \$sw = 1, print "Buzz " if ! (\$n % 5); # Print the number if n isn't divisible by 3 or 5 print "\$n " if ! \$sw; print "\n"; }``` This code is then put into a special class of program known as an interpreter to run it, or to a compiler to produce an intermediate object that will be used to create the final program. The point I'm trying to make here is you can't just take any random sequence of characters and words and feed them to an interpreter or compiler: all you'll get back is a bunch of errors. As we say in the trade, "Garbage in, garbage out." Ditto for a genome. The ATGC base-pair sequences in the genome comprise source code. These are fed into a cell, where the sequences tell the cell to create messenger RNA (mRNA—where have we seen that before?) that's read by a ribosome (akin to a computer interpreter) that eventually creates a protein (output.) Feed a bunch of garbage DNA sequences into this process and you won't get any usable proteins out of it. Most certainly not. As I've just shown, feed garbage into a computer and you get garbage out. Feed garbage DNA into a cell and you'll probably get nothing. The SARS-Cov-2 virus does things, namely taking over the cell's reproductive machinery to produce more viruses. People who come down with COVID are indeed ill, and to date about 5 million people have died from it. While it's true there isn't a distinctive (dare I say, definitive) set of symptoms—it resembles influenza and even a bad cold—people are getting sick and are dying from it. We use things like PCR testing to determine exactly what it is that people who present with symptoms are sick with. We have the genomes of other viruses, and can compare a virus found in the wild against this database of known viruses. This is how we know SARS-Cov-2 similar to the original SARS virus: a lot of the base pairs line up, but there are sufficient differences to give it a new name. In addition, the disease caused by the new virus isn't as harsh as the original SARS was, which had a tendency to kill its host before it had a chance to be transmitted to a new one. That's why it died out so quickly. You appear to know nothing about genetics, DNA, RNA, or molecular biology, which probably accounts for why you entertain such crazy ideas about SARS-Cov-2 and COVID-19. I'll see your paper and raise you 148,000 papers on SARS-Cov-2 and 233,000 papers on COVID-19. After you've acquired at least an M.Sc. in virology, genomics, or molecular biology and can show that more than a handful of these papers are materially incorrect, I'll consider that perhaps Baily and Bevan-Smith are on to something. Until then, I'll side with the massive consensus among scientists in the appropriate disciplines that this virus exists, is making people sick, and is killing them. Blue Mountain, as 16th century Italian philosopher Giordano Bruno said: "It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." I really understand nothing about genomic sequencing but the bit I can understand is going from a virus to a genome sequence. To create a genome sequence I believe the claims by the critics of the mainstream narrative that you need an identified virus and we don't see that. There is no one debunking the paper done by these two guys. Why not? What they put forward sounds authoritative, doesn't it? It doesn't sound like nonsense. Anything put forward that at least seems authoritative needs to be debunked otherwise we have a grave risk of people being misled by "dangerous misinformation". Why do we only see debunking of stuff I could debunk myself? I follow the debunking trail, I have no interest in how many thousands of papers have been produced. I only "trust" when I'm forced to such as going into surgery. Otherwise, I only accept information as given because I feel I have no reason to doubt it or I'm not really bothered. When I am bothered I don't "trust" because of numbers of people saying something, I follow the debunking trail because I think that's a far better method than relying on "scientific consensus" or similar. Power influences everything and it's well-known that Big Pharma influences scientific studies - if you don't get that you are very, very naive. Even when I believe the scientific consensus I still follow the debunking trail because I think we must always look at both sides. Microbiologist, Christine Massey, has organised a FOI campaign to health authorities and governments about isolation of the virus and according to the specified criteria, all health authorities and governments have admitted they are not in possession of such proof of isolation. In that case, what needs to happen is that those supporting the mainstream narrative must argue that isolation according to the specified criteria is not required for isolation to occur. No one has done that. https://truthcomestolight.com/the-no...istine-massey/ Please do not keep throwing at me numbers of papers or anything to do with numbers indicating something must be true. Numbers mean nothing to me, OK? Absolutely nothing. And nor does numbers of people who've allegedly died from covid. I've already pointed out that the excess mortality spike in April 2020 in continental Europe and the UK with inexplicable variations according to covid hypothesis between neighbouring countries very much favours the hypothesis that the excess spike was caused by aggressive drug trials. We also see that mortality of alleged covid sufferers tends to be greatly concentrated in very old people suffering co-morbidities. We also see that statistics that seem to support efficacy of the jab actually support both lack of efficacy and danger by making the status of "vaccinated" refer only to those who had their second jab at least 2 weeks before. Statistics need to be analysed carefully. Without careful analysis numbers can be made to show the complete opposite of reality ... apart from other problems with "numbers" produced such as validity of the test used to produce them. Last edited by Petra; 1st March 2022 at 07:35 PM.
 1st March 2022, 07:54 PM #85 Resume Troublesome Passenger   Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21,229 So anyway, the SARS-CoV-2 genome has been isolated and sequenced, and has been demonstrated to cause COVID-19. [/thread] __________________ " Glory to our Allies . . . Glory to Ukraine!" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy Last edited by Resume; 1st March 2022 at 07:56 PM.
 1st March 2022, 09:15 PM #86 MBDK Critical Thinker     Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 313 Originally Posted by Petra Rinse. Repeat. Sorry, my educationally challenged accuser of witches, but you must provide the answers I requested, before I provide any more answers to you. The fact is, once you can provide correct answers to my request, you will have gleaned the knowledge to understand what your misconceptions currently are. Furthermore, you have told Blue Mountain that Quote: I really understand nothing about genomic sequencing but the bit I can understand is going from a virus to a genome sequence. Those are not mutually exclusive subjects. Regardless, please explain what you understand about going from a virus to a genome sequence, as I don't believe you actually understand it at all. Once you do THAT correctly, you need to explain why you think laboratories all over the world have not done it properly. You also need to explain how the data from China, even if it WERE inconsistent with the rest of the consistent worldwide data, would invalidate that worldwide data. HINT: It wouldn't (but China would have some questions to answer). You also told Blue Mountain: Quote: Why do we only see debunking of stuff I could debunk myself? You are speaking only for yourself. Why you refuse to see what is obvious to others is not their problem.
 1st March 2022, 10:23 PM #88 Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit     Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 6,977 Originally Posted by Petra But where's the evidence of anything out of the ordinary? They told us there was a "cluster" of 44 patients with pneumonia of "unknown origin" but they provide nothing to say there was anything unusual about these pneumonia patients. You mean, aside from the fact they couldn't figure out why the patients had pneumonia in the first place. "Unknown origin" and all that. Quote: Please provide the scientific paper that shows that a new virus has emerged that uses material from the alleged cluster of 44 patients. Please provide that scientific paper. If you are going to refer to papers that use different patients then there's a big question mark, isn't there? Why and how would they be using OTHER patients, not the patients that they say gave rise to the suspicion of a "novel" virus. How do they get from the crude samples to the refined samples? Where's the data? It is arriving at the sequencing that is completely under question. The steps have not been shown to do it. The information you seek is in the hundreds of thousand of scientific papers that you refuse to accept because you instead believe one paper produced by a pair of conspiracy theorists. __________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
 2nd March 2022, 12:25 AM #90 smartcooky Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,091 Originally Posted by Petra Microbiologist, Christine Massey, has organised a FOI campaign to health authorities and governments about isolation of the virus and according to the specified criteria, all health authorities and governments have admitted they are not in possession of such proof of isolation. In that case, what needs to happen is that those supporting the mainstream narrative must argue that isolation according to the specified criteria is not required for isolation to occur. No one has done that. https://truthcomestolight.com/the-no...istine-massey/ Christine Massey is NOT a microbiologist! She holds an undergraduate degree (B.A.) from the University of Ottawa and a Master’s degree (M.A.) from Simon Fraser University... in psychology! If you can't tell the difference between a microbiologist and a psychologist, then its no wonder you have trouble understanding anything. Planigale is better qualified to pontificate on microbiology than Massey! __________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!
 2nd March 2022, 12:31 AM #91 jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator     Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25,564 Originally Posted by Resume So anyway, the SARS-CoV-2 genome has been isolated and sequenced, and has been demonstrated to cause COVID-19. [/thread] It's also been imaged. There are SEM images of the virus attacking human cells. And if it wasn't Covid, then there is some other unknown killer that has been targeting those who test positive for SARS-COV-2 and show the symptoms of COVID-19. In numbers that haven't been seen for about a century. Look at the 2020 plot in particular. And similar plots are around for other countries. __________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
 2nd March 2022, 12:36 AM #92 Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon     Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,748 Originally Posted by Petra Blue Mountain, as 16th century Italian philosopher Giordano Bruno said: "It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." It is proof of gross ignorance to think that an overwhelming consensus of scientists, arrived at by rigorous use of the scientific method, is analogous to the religious dogma of the 16th Century Roman Catholic Church. Quote: I really understand nothing about genomic sequencing but the bit I can understand is going from a virus to a genome sequence. So explain that mechanism, in your own words. Quote: To create a genome sequence I believe the claims by the critics of the mainstream narrative [scientific consensus] that you need an identified virus and we don't see that. Fixed part of that for you. You're just another conspiracy theorist, no different than any flat earther or Apollo denier, who wants everyone to think you're special because you know more than everyone else about a subject of which you have no meaningful comprehension. __________________ Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. Last edited by Foster Zygote; 2nd March 2022 at 12:37 AM.
 2nd March 2022, 02:03 AM #93 EaglePuncher Critical Thinker     Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 448 Originally Posted by Petra Please do not keep throwing at me numbers of papers or anything to do with numbers indicating something must be true. Numbers mean nothing to me, OK? Absolutely nothing. Thanks for confirming that you did not put much thought in any of your posts. I am unsure who is wasting more time: We, reading your completely worthless posts or you writing them....
 2nd March 2022, 02:45 AM #94 arthwollipot Observer of PhenomenaPronouns: he/him     Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,351 Thanks, idjits. Quote: Taxpayers are set to foot an almost \$2m bill for the police response to widespread anti-vaccination protests that shut down parts of Canberra earlier this year, AAP reports. ACT Chief Police Officer Neil Gaughan said policing efforts cost \$1.9m so far and the demonstrations are continuing. Gaughan said the protests were expected to take place each weekend in the lead up to the federal budget on 29 March. “We’ve been having protests since 12 December in the territory, and they really haven’t stopped,” he told ABC radio on Wednesday. “With the continuance of the protests, I anticipate numbers to increase.” Discussions on whether the costs would be covered by Canberra taxpayers or nationally was yet to be determined. Talks are set to take place between the ACT and federal governments on how costs would be handled. Gaughan said about 500 protesters were still in Canberra and the surrounding region. ACT police along with their NSW counterparts are monitoring the protests. While police have described the demonstrations as largely peaceful, 23 arrests have been made. The largest protest took place in February, when more than 10,000 people marched on Parliament House, demonstrating against Covid-19 vaccines and vaccination mandates. Gaughan said it was not known whether upcoming demonstrations would be similar, but big gatherings are expected on federal budget night. “The thing that aggrieves me the most, we haven’t had the ability or the opportunity or the resources to do what I consider to be normal policing,” he said. “It doesn’t just affect me, it affects my national colleagues, who have given me substantial resources to deal with these protests over the two-month period.” Protesters shut down major roads in Canberra during the demonstrations, targeting media organisations, along with Parliament House and city centres. Large numbers camped out on the lawns outside the National Library before they were kicked out and moved to a campground in Canberra’s north, which became a makeshift headquarters. A stand-off then ensued between protesters and police when they were told to leave because the site was needed for the Canberra Show. source __________________ Слава Україні Героям слава
 2nd March 2022, 02:56 AM #95 Mojo Mostly harmless     Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,769 Originally Posted by Blue Mountain You mean, aside from the fact they couldn't figure out why the patients had pneumonia in the first place. "Unknown origin" and all that. Petra’s objection seems to be that because they didn’t know what caused the pneumonia, investigating the cause was “unscientific”. __________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
 2nd March 2022, 11:08 AM #99 Purple Pangolin Scholar   Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Kitsap Peninsula Posts: 66 Originally Posted by Petra I really understand nothing about genomic sequencing but the bit I can understand is going from a virus to a genome sequence. To create a genome sequence I believe the claims by the critics of the mainstream narrative that you need an identified virus and we don't see that. Not really, but that's beside the point. A lot of coronaviruses have been sequenced, and while the virus that causes Covid19 was clearly some kind of coronavirus, it was different enough to be classified as something new. Novel means new. Now that you know that, you can stop putting "novel" in scare quotes. Quote: Numbers mean nothing to me, OK? Absolutely nothing. Obviously. However, since understanding numbers (particularly used statistically) are important for understanding science, then you are going to have a hard time determining whether any papers/studies are scientific or not. Now that you know that, you can stop claiming that one paper is more scientific than another. Or you could seek some education. It's up to you.
 2nd March 2022, 11:12 AM #100 Resume Troublesome Passenger   Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21,229 Seen on a bumper sticker . . . But Did You Die? Now we've seem some stupid anti-vax memes and tweets and facebook idiocy, but this struck me as cement-headed as it gets. Many who view this stupidity likely know someone who has died, is suffering from long COVID, or the various pulmonary, neurological and organ issues associated with contracting the virus. So, is this person merely stupid, willfully ignorant, mentally ill, or just trolling? Or maybe all of these? __________________ " Glory to our Allies . . . Glory to Ukraine!" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
 2nd March 2022, 11:52 AM #101 Emre_1974tr Muse     Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 899 Vaccine Goes Into Liver Cells and Is Converted to DNA -permanent chromosomal change https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_ap...m_campaign=CFP
 2nd March 2022, 11:55 AM #102 Resume Troublesome Passenger   Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21,229 Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Vaccine Goes Into Liver Cells and Is Converted to DNA -permanent chromosomal change https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_ap...m_campaign=CFP See post#30. __________________ " Glory to our Allies . . . Glory to Ukraine!" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
 2nd March 2022, 12:19 PM #103 smartcooky Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,091 Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Vaccine Goes Into Liver Cells and Is Converted to DNA -permanent chromosomal change https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-goes-into-liver-cells-and-is-converted-to-dna-study_4307594.html?utm_source=partner&utm_campaign =CFP I have highlighted the problem with this story. As long as you you keep letting yourself be gulled by what you read in conspiracy theorist websites, you will never get anywhere near the facts. As long as you you keep uncritically parroting what you read in conspiracy theorist websites, you will always be laughed at on this forum __________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!
 2nd March 2022, 03:26 PM #104 Emre_1974tr Muse     Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 899 Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Vaccine Goes Into Liver Cells and Is Converted to DNA -permanent chromosomal change https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_ap...m_campaign=CFP The news needs to be corrected in the form of experimental gene therapy, not a vaccine.
 2nd March 2022, 03:30 PM #105 Resume Troublesome Passenger   Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21,229 Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr The news needs to be corrected in the form of experimental gene therapy, not a vaccine. Nope. __________________ " Glory to our Allies . . . Glory to Ukraine!" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
 2nd March 2022, 03:57 PM #106 Resume Troublesome Passenger   Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21,229 Plague rat governor bullies students. Quote: POLITICS 'This is ridiculous': DeSantis asks students to take off their face masks The governor, who called the students' mask-wearing "COVID theater," shook his head. Author: Courtney Holland Published: 2:34 PM EST March 2, 2022 Updated: 3:40 PM EST March 2, 2022 Facebook Twitter TAMPA, Fla. — Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis let a group of students know how frustrated he is with people wearing face masks. DeSantis was at the University of South Florida to announce a \$20 million award for cybersecurity education during a news conference Wednesday and as he approached the podium, he looked to the group and told them to take off their masks. "You do not have to wear those masks. I mean, please take them off," he was heard saying. "Honestly, it's not doing anything, and we've gotta stop with this COVID theater. **** off, Shemp. __________________ " Glory to our Allies . . . Glory to Ukraine!" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
 2nd March 2022, 06:45 PM #107 W.D.Clinger Illuminator     Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,391 Originally Posted by Petra I've provided you with fraudulent science related to the making of the alleged genome sequence of sars-cov-2. Petra has provided us with many fraudulent claims, which she chooses to believe despite all evidence to the contrary, but I don't recall any examples of Petra providing us with science. To be overly generous, however, I suppose some of her fraudulent claims could be construed as "fraudulent science". Originally Posted by Petra You provide with me with the kosher science ... or not as you choose ... but if you don't provide the kosher science you can hardly claim to have debunked what I say ... or you can if you choose but I certainly won't accept it. Petra persistently fails to recognize the genuine science that has been provided. Here are a few recent examples, heavily edited for brevity. Originally Posted by Blue Mountain The National Center for Biotechnology Information currently has 309,063 samples of the SARS-Cov-2 virus in its database. It's like different chess sets. Although are lots of variants on the pieces and the colours of the squares on the board, they're all recognizable as chess sets (although some might be a bit tricky!) They won't be mistaken for a game of checkers, backgammon, Go, or Monopoly, even though they're all board games. Originally Posted by Planigale 1) Covid-19 due to infection with SARS-CoV-2 presents as a pneumonic illness that differs in clinical features from other pneumonias such that a clinical diagnosis can be made. There is sufficient difference that it would make clinicians think that this is different from other pneumonias. 2) Post mortem appearances of those that died were different from those of other pneumonias, sufficient to make the pathologists think they were dealing with a novel infection. 3) Post mortem lungs examined under electron microscopy showed the presence of coronaviruses. 4) A novel corona virus was isolated from bronchoscopy sampling of the lungs and was grown in human cell cultures. 5) Antibodies from patients with the novel coronavirus infection were specific for the novel coronavirus. 6) Sequencing of the novel coronavirus seen under the microscope and isolated in cell culture matched PCR testing from patients. Who then developed neutralising antibodies. 7) Transmission experiments have shown the virus causes pneumonia in animal models. 8) infection experiments in humans have shown that the virus replicates in humans, and neutralising antibodies subsequently develop. This is as much and probably more evidence than we have for any other infection. You might as well deny any other infection exists. Isolation and sequencing and culture of the virus has been done in many places and many countries. This reminds me of the arguments that were made by some HIV denialists who claimed that the HIV virus did not really exist. The highlighted are unsurprising, inasmuch as Petra's most oft-cited sources include several HIV denialists along with Sam Bailey of New Zealand, who insists no disease has ever been caused by a virus. Referring to the scribbling of Mark Bailey and John Bevan-Smith, Petra wrote: Originally Posted by Petra There is no one debunking the paper done by these two guys. Why not? What they put forward sounds authoritative, doesn't it? It doesn't sound like nonsense. So you don't understand why "UFOs found in vaccines" counts as something wrong with the Bailey and Bevan-Smith paper? Sounds like nonsense to me. Originally Posted by Petra Microbiologist, Christine Massey, No: Originally Posted by Planigale Christine Massey is not a microbiologist. Originally Posted by smartcooky Christine Massey is NOT a microbiologist! She holds an undergraduate degree (B.A.) from the University of Ottawa and a Master’s degree (M.A.) from Simon Fraser University... in psychology! If you can't tell the difference between a microbiologist and a psychologist, then its no wonder you have trouble understanding anything. Planigale is better qualified to pontificate on microbiology than Massey! Then there's this profession of innumeracy: Originally Posted by Petra Please do not keep throwing at me numbers of papers or anything to do with numbers indicating something must be true. Numbers mean nothing to me, OK? Absolutely nothing. Followed, in the very same post, by this: Originally Posted by Petra Statistics need to be analysed carefully. Numbers "mean nothing to" Petra, so Petra is unable to analyze statistics with any care at all. Originally Posted by Planigale Every standard of proof that applies to every other infection has been met for Covid-19. If you deny the existence of Covid-19, you might equally deny HIV, Ebola, Influenza (remember most viruses were 'identified' with less evidence than there is for covid-19. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7239045/ This paper reports the isolation of the virus from a patient including into pure culture. Including electron microscopy showing the novel corona virus.
 2nd March 2022, 08:03 PM #108 smartcooky Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,091 wrong thread __________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!
 3rd March 2022, 12:33 AM #109 Bubba Suspended   Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 6,387 MSM and Pharma guys: Re prostate cancer claims against Zantac, Maybe there is a better search term, or a better search engine, because no msm pages were seen on google for the search term Zantac linked to prostate cancer on abc, cbs, nbc.. Maybe there is something to the claim that MSM favors big pharma?
 3rd March 2022, 12:55 AM #110 Susheel Master Poster     Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 2,677 Originally Posted by Bubba MSM and Pharma guys: Re prostate cancer claims against Zantac, Maybe there is a better search term, or a better search engine, because no msm pages were seen on google for the search term Zantac linked to prostate cancer on abc, cbs, nbc.. Maybe there is something to the claim that MSM favors big pharma? Or more probably....ok let's say more precisely, there is absolutely nothing to your claim whatsoever... __________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
 3rd March 2022, 01:11 AM #111 MBDK Critical Thinker     Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 313 Originally Posted by Bubba MSM and Pharma guys: Re prostate cancer claims against Zantac, Maybe there is a better search term, or a better search engine, because no msm pages were seen on google for the search term Zantac linked to prostate cancer on abc, cbs, nbc.. Maybe there is something to the claim that MSM favors big pharma? Or maybe the algorithm just doesn't support your input. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/zantac-...e-cancer-link/ https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...ac-68915781738 Using Bing, I found those on the first page of individual searches for "Zantac linked to prostate cancer on ___" ABC was harder, but under the same criteria, I found this: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...re-litigation/ Which acknowledged this: Quote: ABC News reported that NDMA has been labeled a probable carcinogen with the Environmental Protection (EPA), Seems as though you haven't been very thorough in your investigation. Color me nonplussed (either old or new definitions work, with the old to be considered sarcasm).
 3rd March 2022, 01:12 AM #112 Planigale Philosopher     Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 5,609 Originally Posted by Susheel Or more probably....ok let's say more precisely, there is absolutely nothing to your claim whatsoever... To be fair to Bubba ranitidine (zantac) has been withdrawn due to a theoretical risk of cancer, although long term studies have shown no effect (this will not stop court cases of course). A breakdown product of ranitidine that accumulates with long term storage is mutagenic in studies which means it is a potential carcinogen. Since there are alternatives which do not have this breakdown product it has been withdrawn. Prostate cancer is unlikely to be caused by ranitidine. Ranitidine reduces testosterone levels, which is the objective of most treatments for prostate cancer. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicin...cinal-products https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10750671/ ETA ranitidine is long off patent so really isn't of interest to 'Big Pharma'. Last edited by Planigale; 3rd March 2022 at 01:13 AM.
 3rd March 2022, 01:57 AM #113 Craig4 Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 25,157 Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr The news needs to be corrected in the form of experimental gene therapy, not a vaccine. This is a lie and you know it. __________________ Fight like a Ukrainian.
 3rd March 2022, 02:07 AM #114 Cosmic Yak Philosopher     Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 5,771 Originally Posted by Bubba MSM and Pharma guys: Re prostate cancer claims against Zantac, Maybe there is a better search term, or a better search engine, because no msm pages were seen on google for the search term Zantac linked to prostate cancer on abc, cbs, nbc.. Maybe there is something to the claim that MSM favors big pharma? Perhaps if you actually searched the websites of the media channels you name here, you would have better results. I did, and the story was covered by all of them. There is, therefore, nothing of substance to this claim that 'MSM favours big pharma'. NEXT! __________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
 3rd March 2022, 03:17 AM #115 Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon     Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,748 Originally Posted by MBDK Or maybe the algorithm just doesn't support your input. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/zantac-...e-cancer-link/ https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...ac-68915781738 Using Bing, I found those on the first page of individual searches for "Zantac linked to prostate cancer on ___" ABC was harder, but under the same criteria, I found this: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...re-litigation/ Which acknowledged this: Seems as though you haven't been very thorough in your investigation. Color me nonplussed (either old or new definitions work, with the old to be considered sarcasm). Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak Perhaps if you actually searched the websites of the media channels you name here, you would have better results. I did, and the story was covered by all of them. There is, therefore, nothing of substance to this claim that 'MSM favours big pharma'. NEXT! So Bubba was wrong again. Well I certainly didn't expect that. No matter. He's about to redeem himself in the GNIS Search thread... Any moment now. __________________ Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
 3rd March 2022, 03:37 AM #116 Emre_1974tr Muse     Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 899 Originally Posted by Craig4 This is a lie and you know it. No, on the contrary, it is real. and you know it too. But you will not accept this bitter truth as you are sheep giving your mind to others. By the way, you had an interesting conspiracy theory about my knowledge of Turkish, open a separate thread for it ahahaha
 3rd March 2022, 03:39 AM #117 smartcooky Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,091 Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr No, on the contrary, it is real. and you know it too. But you will not accept this bitter truth as you are sheep giving your mind to others. By the way, you had an interesting conspiracy theory about my knowledge of Turkish, open a separate thread for it ahahaha No, its a lie.... and you know it __________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!
 3rd March 2022, 03:43 AM #118 Emre_1974tr Muse     Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 899 Originally Posted by smartcooky No, its a... I know you're mad at me for not warning you earlier. It's too late for you now. But you have to make the effort to remove the poison from your body, there is always hope, my friend.
 3rd March 2022, 04:06 AM #119 MarkCorrigan ¡No pasarán!     Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Слава Україні Posts: 11,122 Absolutely certifiable gibberish from a known liar and coward. __________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist. - Hélder Câmara
 3rd March 2022, 04:34 AM #120 Mongrel Begging for Scraps     Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: UK, suburbia. 20 minutes in the future Posts: 2,135 Originally Posted by Planigale To be fair to Bubba ranitidine (zantac) has been withdrawn due to a theoretical risk of cancer, although long term studies have shown no effect (this will not stop court cases of course). As I understood it, it's not ranitidine that's causing the cancer risk it's that the chemicals used to make ranitidine were contaminated thus contaminating the ranitidine. Didn't even have to go search for that, I just asked a Pharmacist. If they ever get back to making it then they'll be able to compare the data __________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

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