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Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

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Old 8th March 2022, 03:01 AM   #201
Bubba
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Well of course...Thank You !! This is always to be expected.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Covid vaccines not linked to deaths, major US study finds

A major study of vaccine side-effects in the US found no link between two Covid jabs and the number of deaths recorded after vaccination.

The Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said 92% of reported side-effects after the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were mild.




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60653946
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Old 8th March 2022, 03:07 AM   #202
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Comments on Schwab

viewer comments under that Schwab expose video by J PSears:


Anyone else find it sad that a comedian is our most reliable news source?
aid that humans are hackable animals and that free will is over, that chilled me to the bone. Nope!


This was seriously the most serious video you’ve ever composed. JP you are leading this battle.



I really hope the world wakes up and realizes what a huge threat this group is. We are seriously in trouble if everyone keeps ignoring what is really going on.



How anyone could watch this, and not have something quick in their head is extremely troubling. This video alone should be enough to convince every sentient Man woman and child. Sadly though, I think we’re dealing with some sort of possession, or psychosis, and it might not even be possible.


It's kind of depressing that you could show a brilliant nail-on-the-head video like this to the majority of people and they'll mostly stare blankly and not grasp the seriousness of it

The power of sarcasm as a weapon for truth has never been more beautifully displayed. Just hitting all the nails on the head in one go. Love it!
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Old 8th March 2022, 03:32 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
viewer comments under that Schwab expose video by J PSears:


Anyone else find it sad that a comedian is our most reliable news source?
aid that humans are hackable animals and that free will is over, that chilled me to the bone. Nope!


This was seriously the most serious video you’ve ever composed. JP you are leading this battle.



I really hope the world wakes up and realizes what a huge threat this group is. We are seriously in trouble if everyone keeps ignoring what is really going on.



How anyone could watch this, and not have something quick in their head is extremely troubling. This video alone should be enough to convince every sentient Man woman and child. Sadly though, I think we’re dealing with some sort of possession, or psychosis, and it might not even be possible.


It's kind of depressing that you could show a brilliant nail-on-the-head video like this to the majority of people and they'll mostly stare blankly and not grasp the seriousness of it

The power of sarcasm as a weapon for truth has never been more beautifully
displayed. Just hitting all the nails on the head in one go. Love it!
Some humans actually are hackable. You are a prime example.
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Old 8th March 2022, 03:47 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Well of course...Thank You !! This is always to be expected.
Let's remind ourselves what it was you expected back in November:

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Here are my ten predictions for Omicron and 2022:

Prediction #1: Omicron variant hysteria will be used to reset everyone’s vaccine passports to zero, coercing people into a whole new round of vaccines for this new variant. Those stupid enough to go along with omicron variant vaccines will be signing up for a never-ending series of spike protein bioweapons injections, which will eventually kill them.

Prediction #2: Omicron hysteria will be exploited to justify aggressive vaccine mandates, demanding that this “new emergency” overrides all human rights, medical freedom and body autonomy.

Prediction #3: Although the omicron variant has so far only been found in fully vaccinated people, the lying corporate media will blame its origins on the unvaccinated.

Prediction #4: The omicron variant will be used as a cover story by the corporate media to try to explain away all the Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) deaths caused by covid vaccines. Even as vaccinated people die in large numbers, the media will blame the unvaccinated (see #3, above) and demand that unvaccinated people be completely locked down and denied access to society.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-11-...playbook.html#
How's that working out for you so far, Bubba?
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Old 8th March 2022, 05:55 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
viewer comments under that Schwab expose video by J PSears:


Anyone else find it sad that a comedian is our most reliable news source?
aid that humans are hackable animals and that free will is over, that chilled me to the bone. Nope!


This was seriously the most serious video you’ve ever composed. JP you are leading this battle.



I really hope the world wakes up and realizes what a huge threat this group is. We are seriously in trouble if everyone keeps ignoring what is really going on.



How anyone could watch this, and not have something quick in their head is extremely troubling. This video alone should be enough to convince every sentient Man woman and child. Sadly though, I think we’re dealing with some sort of possession, or psychosis, and it might not even be possible.


It's kind of depressing that you could show a brilliant nail-on-the-head video like this to the majority of people and they'll mostly stare blankly and not grasp the seriousness of it

The power of sarcasm as a weapon for truth has never been more beautifully displayed. Just hitting all the nails on the head in one go. Love it!
Morons say the darndest things.
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Old 8th March 2022, 05:56 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Let's remind ourselves what it was you expected back in November:

How's that working out for you so far, Bubba?
I suspect Bubba might be trying to turn being wrong into a sort of performance art.
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:11 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Nah. Klaus Schwab



The COVID-19 pandemic was part and parcel of that plan, as detailed in Klaus Schwab’s book, “COVID-19: The Great Reset,”1 but to really fulfill the technocrats’ ambitions, a war of some kind is likely needed. As reported by Dr. Vernon Coleman with The Exposé



https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...rid=1428161691
How do you manufacture storms, Bubba?
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:12 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Of course it exists,
OK. Do you believe it is dangerous?
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:17 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Nah. Klaus Schwab
How much power does the WEF have, and can you give any examples of how they have exercised this power?
Again, in your own words, please, rather than copy-and-pasting comments from others or spamming yet more mercola links.
I am going to keep asking, by the way, because I think your silence is speaking volumes here:
Are you linking to mercola as a serious source?
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Old 8th March 2022, 07:38 AM   #210
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I'm not going to go search quotes, but I'd bet that Bubba (and Tippit, PBUH) started saying "Klaus Schwab" around the time that Alex Jones did, maybe 18 months ago or so. Klaus wasn't the boogeyman for decades, even though he started the WEF like 50 years ago.
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Old 8th March 2022, 09:33 AM   #211
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Mercola and Mike Adams.

Just how dumb would a person need to be to swallow this garbage?
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Old 8th March 2022, 09:38 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Mercola and Mike Adams.

Just how dumb would a person need to be to swallow this garbage?
Not to forget Vernon Coleman, although I do try to.
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Old 8th March 2022, 09:50 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Mercola and Mike Adams.

Just how dumb would a person need to be to swallow this garbage?
It's over for humanity. There will only be lone survivors.

--Mike Adams, speaking about Covid-19 in January of 2020
https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkea...racy-theorists
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Old 8th March 2022, 10:26 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Mercola and Mike Adams.

Just how dumb would a person need to be to swallow this garbage?
Well, you could just look around this thread for examples.
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Old 8th March 2022, 11:31 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Mercola and Mike Adams.

Just how dumb would a person need to be to swallow this garbage?
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Old 8th March 2022, 12:06 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Let's remind ourselves what it was you expected back in November:

Originally Posted by Bubba
Here are my ten predictions for Omicron and 2022:

Prediction #1: Omicron variant hysteria will be used to reset everyone’s vaccine passports to zero, coercing people into a whole new round of vaccines for this new variant. Those stupid enough to go along with omicron variant vaccines will be signing up for a never-ending series of spike protein bioweapons injections, which will eventually kill them.

Prediction #2: Omicron hysteria will be exploited to justify aggressive vaccine mandates, demanding that this “new emergency” overrides all human rights, medical freedom and body autonomy.

Prediction #3: Although the omicron variant has so far only been found in fully vaccinated people, the lying corporate media will blame its origins on the unvaccinated.

Prediction #4: The omicron variant will be used as a cover story by the corporate media to try to explain away all the Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) deaths caused by covid vaccines. Even as vaccinated people die in large numbers, the media will blame the unvaccinated (see #3, above) and demand that unvaccinated people be completely locked down and denied access to society.


How's that working out for you so far, Bubba?
Oh please teacher, can I say the answers, please!

Prediction #1

Prediction #2

Prediction #3

Prediction #4
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Last edited by smartcooky; 8th March 2022 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 8th March 2022, 12:27 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Oh please teacher, can I say the answers, please!
I don't know. I find my self wondering how anyone could be wrong about so many things. It must at a point be classed as intentional.
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Old 8th March 2022, 12:31 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I don't know. I find my self wondering how anyone could be wrong about so many things. It must at a point be classed as intentional.
How very generous of you abaddon!

For mine, I tend to go with one of the many versions of Hanlon's Razor..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
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Old 8th March 2022, 01:20 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I don't know. I find my self wondering how anyone could be wrong about so many things. It must at a point be classed as intentional.
I am confident this is true. In most cases, Bubba's phrasing and tactics (e.g., "I was told...") are purposely intended to elicit a response to the misinformation expressed, while simultaneously providing Bubba with Sir Robin's escape.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



Bubba thinks him/herself to be a puppeteer, whereas he/she is just a sophomoric troll throwing rocks from poorly disguised cover.

Last edited by MBDK; 8th March 2022 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Fixed YT link
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Old 8th March 2022, 01:42 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by MBDK View Post
I am confident this is true. In most cases, Bubba's phrasing and tactics (e.g., "I was told...") are purposely intended to elicit a response to the misinformation expressed, while simultaneously providing Bubba with Sir Robin's escape.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



Bubba thinks him/herself to be a puppeteer, whereas he/she is just a sophomoric troll throwing rocks from poorly disguised cover.
Surely you cannot be suggesting that Bubba's posts are indistinguishable from trolling. That would never be allowed to happen here, where our mods take great care to ensure that all posts are firmly on topic.
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Old 8th March 2022, 02:33 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Surely you cannot be suggesting that Bubba's posts are indistinguishable from trolling. That would never be allowed to happen here, where our mods take great care to ensure that all posts are firmly on topic.
IMHO, Bubba is the Omicron Troll Variant, sans greater communicability - a less harmful form, riding the coattails of earlier versions in an attempt to bolster their own notoriety.

Deliberately dodging direct questions is the common attribute for all subfamilies of the Troll.
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Old 8th March 2022, 11:53 PM   #222
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Could it be true?

https://stateofthenation.co/?p=103081
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Old 9th March 2022, 12:37 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Could it be true?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better...w_of_headlines
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Old 9th March 2022, 01:37 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Please provide a summary of whatever is in that link.
Please state, in your own words, what you think about it.
Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.
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Old 9th March 2022, 01:56 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Purple Pangolin View Post
Petra could you please, in your own words, explain the steps of the scientific method?
These are the words of someone else to describe the scientific method in general.

The six steps of the scientific method include:
1) asking a question about something you observe,
2) doing background research to learn what is already known about the topic,
3) constructing a hypothesis,
4) experimenting to test the hypothesis,
5) analyzing the data from the experiment and drawing conclusions, and
6) communicating the results to others.

There is criticism of the method used by the scientists who've produced papers saying that they have isolated the virus. Their idea of "isolation" is not actual purified virus particles and they admit their electron micrographs do not not show virus particles. What is abundantly clear in the "science" of virology is the lack of controlled experiments made very evident in this video by Dr Sam Bailey. I'm not going to summarise what's in the video and if you don't want to watch it fine, I just put it forward as it's just been released.
https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/th...bout-viruses:a
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Old 9th March 2022, 01:57 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/state-of-the-union-2012/

Quote:
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

Overall, we rate State of the Nation (SOTN) extreme right biased and Questionable based on the promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories, and pseudoscience and the use of poor sources, a complete lack of transparency, and false claims.
So, par for the course where Bubba is concerned.
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:02 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Against my better judgement, and more for the benefit of others rather than any expectation of a coherent response from Petra- which in any case I will probably ignore (Sauce for the goose, and all that, Petra):

Petra is ignoring the fact that W.D. Clinger linked to the actual FOI requests, and the actual answers, from each institution. It really can't get any more specific than that.
Had she actually bothered to read them, she might have discovered this:



Pretty much says it all: the request is either deliberately dishonest, so as to provoke answers that can be spun into a conspiracy theory, or based on a profound ignorance of the science in question. It could, of course, be both- i.e., ignorant and dishonest.
Note also that Petra has relied heavily on a lack of response as a form of positive evidence. That criterium should also be applied here as well, then.

In any case, I think this should provide an answer that would satisfy any reasonable person.
No doubt Petra will find some reason to continue being unreasonable.
I wasn't aware of this response. I've seen other responses that simply say they don't have information as requested. It's not a good look obviously that Christine Massey didn't respond to their requests. Of course, it's a given that viruses aren't isolated as specified by her criteria - I think the point is viruses simply cannot be isolated and therefore it's unscientific to state the process has been achieved.
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:06 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Page 2 on the CT bible: Thou shalt make unreasonable demands and should they be met for some reason thou shalt handwave until dawn!
LOL. An unreasonable demand. That really is a good one!

Oh my goodness. So they suspect a novel virus from a "cluster" of 44 patients with pnemonia of "unknown origin" and they generate a genome sequence by taking bronchoalveolar swabs from a single one of those patients.

You've got to be kidding right? You have seriously got to be kidding that the demand for the paper behind this utter garbage should not be provided.
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:22 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
LOL. An unreasonable demand. That really is a good one!

Oh my goodness. So they suspect a novel virus from a "cluster" of 44 patients with pnemonia of "unknown origin" and they generate a genome sequence by taking bronchoalveolar swabs from a single one of those patients.

You've got to be kidding right? You have seriously got to be kidding that the demand for the paper behind this utter garbage should not be provided.
Sigh....It's so sad to see that by now we have several hundred millions infected and you still seem to suggest that when anywhere on the planet a person is tested positive, some sinister process is being activated where the whole staff of the testing site is in the know and they actively play along the "this person just tested negative but we have orders to claim that they tested positive because we are doing a fake pandemic because of reasons"-game
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:24 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Do you have a link for this "side notes page on CDC China?" I've searched this thread and the previous one for the text "side notes" and the post I'm quoting is the very first mention of it.


No, you have the rantings of a couple of well-educated people who have fallen for a conspiracy theory. I suspect the reason the Bailey/Bevan-Smith paper hasn't seen much traction among serious scientists is they take a look at the abstract, where they rant about

(bolding mine) and immediately write them off as crackpots.

If I get sufficiently motivated, I'll send emails to a sampling of scientists in the appropriate fields and ask them for their critiques of the tail end of part 1 and all of part 2.
Notes from the Field: A Novel Coronavirus Genome Identified in a Cluster of Pneumonia Cases — Wuhan, China 2019−2020
https://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/articl...e-4253b453d10c

"On January 3, 2020, the first complete genome of the novel β genus coronaviruses (2019-nCoVs) was identified in samples of bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BALF) from a patient from Wuhan by scientists of the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) through a combination of Sanger sequencing, Illumina sequencing, and nanopore sequencing. Three distinct strains have been identified, the virus has been designated as 2019-nCoV, and the disease has been subsequently named novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia (NCIP)."

Can you not see how unscientific this is? First there is no reason to suspect a novel virus - 44 cases of pneumonia without clear indications of something unusual about these 44 cases doesn't make a "cluster" and how do you identify any particular virus in bronchoalveolar lavage samples from a single patient? It is absurd in the extreme. There are no controlled experiments going on here in the alleged isolation of the virus. Where are the samples from the patients allegedly not suffering infection?

The whole problem with virology is that they don't take samples from non-infected people and compare them and they add loads of stuff to their cultures which obviously can have an effect on the organisms they're testing.

If you can be bothered Sam Bailey exposes this lack of controlled experiment in her latest video.
https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/th...bout-viruses:a

Last edited by Petra; 9th March 2022 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:49 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You’re forgetting your own argument. You claim that investigating the cause was “unscientific” because there wasn’t sufficient evidence. Isolating the virus would come after investigation, not before.
No I'm not forgetting my argument at all. The whole thing falls over at the first step because no evidence is provided for suspicion of a "novel" virus. That information is so very glaringly lacking and so at the outset it all falls over. But somehow - we must allow - that perhaps the scientific method gets back on track with determination of a new virus - it's just that it doesn't. Bronchoalveolar lavage samples from a single one of the alleged cluster is not getting back to the scientific method one little bit.

It's like the cartoon of the two mathematicians where you see a great long mathematical explanation across a board and the one mathematician, standing towards the far left of the board and pointing at some equation in that area, says to the other who wrote the mathematical explanation, "You made your mistake here."
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:53 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Nope.
Nope in response to my claim that I have shown that suspicion of a novel virus is unscientific.

Yes I have.

44 patients with pneumonia doesn't make a cluster and "unknown aetiology" makes no sense in a highly-polluted city such as Wuhan.

The suspicion of a novel virus is clearly unscientific. I simply do not know how you can keep arguing against the bleeding obvious and incontrovertible.

Until someone provides evidence for those 44 patients with pneumonia in Wuhan to be regarded as a "cluster" - and I would have thought someone among all you apologists of the mainstream narrative would have done it by now - the suspicion of a "novel" virus is unscientific.
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:57 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
There is a vast quantity of evidence that shows the novel coronavirus to be real that has nothing to do with the 44 patients. You're illogically focused on those 44 to the exclusion of vast quantities of excellent evidence.
A path was followed to determine that a novel virus emerged that the world needed to be turned upside down for and I'm showing that that path is unscientific. It started, unscientifically, with an alleged "cluster" of 44 patients. Where did it go from there?
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:59 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Just for clarity, to see if I quite understand: at an early stage, when it began to be noticed that there was an unusual cluster of pneumonia cases which might indicate something new was going on and this deserved investigation, the number of patients identified happened to be 44. There were of course many more soon identified and by now there have been ten million times that number of infections. So, just in case I misunderstood, is it Petra's view that the pandemic is not real unless the Covid-19 virus was isolated from one of those arbitrary 44 cases?
What I'm doing is following the path taken. We start on an unscientific foot because we are not given any reason to perceive these 44 patients as a cluster. Then we follow the path from this alleged cluster. Does the path get back on a scientific track or does it stay off it?
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Old 9th March 2022, 04:07 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Nope in response to my claim that I have shown that suspicion of a novel virus is unscientific.

Yes I have.

44 patients with pneumonia doesn't make a cluster and "unknown aetiology" makes no sense in a highly-polluted city such as Wuhan.

The suspicion of a novel virus is clearly unscientific. I simply do not know how you can keep arguing against the bleeding obvious and incontrovertible.

Until someone provides evidence for those 44 patients with pneumonia in Wuhan to be regarded as a "cluster" - and I would have thought someone among all you apologists of the mainstream narrative would have done it by now - the suspicion of a "novel" virus is unscientific.
What do you think pneumonia is? It's an inflammation of the lungs caused by an infection. Pollution can increase the risk of getting pneumonia, but it doesn't cause it; it's caused by a bacterium, virus or fungus.

Given that, what do you think 'unknown aetiology' means? In our hospital, and I imagine most hospitals, a patient with suspected pneumonia will have chest imaging and respiratory samples sent for microbiology. If the tests are negative for the most common infective causes, the samples will get tested for atypical causes. There could be many reasons why these tests are negative e.g. antimicrobial therapy has already been started, poorly collected specimen etc. but in the Wuhan cases, as I believe Planigale has already explained, there were novel changes on the chest imaging that did not look like typical pneumonic changes. Why do novel changes on imaging and no infective cause found on microbiological tests make the suspicion of a novel virus 'unscientific'? What other circumstances would you want to have occurred to make it more scientific?

As has already also been explained, as few as two cases can be a cluster. Why do you have a problem with this?
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Old 9th March 2022, 04:08 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
we are not given any reason to perceive these 44 patients as a cluster.
This would appear to be the heart of the matter. You do not know what it was about these cases which made people suspect something peculiar was going on, and this bothers you.

I'm afraid I can't offer any insight into the chain of events but I'm slightly curious to know what work you have done so far to try to discover the answer.
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Old 9th March 2022, 05:23 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
You will never know.
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:23 AM   #238
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:53 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak
Against my better judgement, and more for the benefit of others rather than any expectation of a coherent response from Petra- which in any case I will probably ignore (Sauce for the goose, and all that, Petra):

Petra is ignoring the fact that W.D. Clinger linked to the actual FOI requests, and the actual answers, from each institution. It really can't get any more specific than that.
Had she actually bothered to read them, she might have discovered this:



Pretty much says it all: the request is either deliberately dishonest, so as to provoke answers that can be spun into a conspiracy theory, or based on a profound ignorance of the science in question. It could, of course, be both- i.e., ignorant and dishonest.
Note also that Petra has relied heavily on a lack of response as a form of positive evidence. That criterium should also be applied here as well, then.

In any case, I think this should provide an answer that would satisfy any reasonable person.
No doubt Petra will find some reason to continue being unreasonable.
I wasn't aware of this response. I've seen other responses that simply say they don't have information as requested. It's not a good look obviously that Christine Massey didn't respond to their requests. Of course, it's a given that viruses aren't isolated as specified by her criteria - I think the point is viruses simply cannot be isolated and therefore it's unscientific to state the process has been achieved.
Liar. You responded to that post, and included it in your post:

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
The world contains several people named Christine Massey. One of them, a resident of Brampton, Ontario, has submitted numerous FOI requests to obtain blandly uninformative formal responses, which conspiracy theorists such as Petra have been citing as though they were evidence against the very existence of SARS-CoV-2.

Both Petra and smartcooky have mischaracterized that person's professional and educational background. I quoted smartcooky's mistake without checking it:




In reality, the Christine Massey of FOI infamy, who resides in Brampton, Ontario, is neither a microbiologist nor a psychologist. In her own words:


So the Christine Massey cited by Petra and her fellow travelers is neither a microbiologist nor a psychologist, but a soi-disant biostatistician and inveterate nutjob in the tradition of General Jack T Ripper.

I apologize for my error.
Thank you for pointing out the error, Clinger, however, I think you tend to miss the forest for the trees. The main point is the FOI campaign she has organised, not her qualifications, and when you say "to obtain blandly uninformative formal responses" you need to be more specific.

To me, what would act as a criticism of her campaign is the explanation of why the criteria she has specified are not relevant to virus isolation but I see no evidence of it. I would have thought at least ONE institution who's responded to her FOI request would have said, "No, we have no evidence of what you request, however, X, Y and Z" explaining that whatever they do possess does indeed reflect the correct scientific method used to to perform isolation of the alleged virus but I'm not aware of such a response.

Perhaps you can enlighten me Clinger.

Petra, stop lying. Please.
Then there's this:

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
It's not a good look obviously that Christine Massey didn't respond to their requests. Of course, it's a given that viruses aren't isolated as specified by her criteria - I think the point is viruses simply cannot be isolated and therefore it's unscientific to state the process has been achieved.
You acknowledge that what Massey is asking for is impossible, so you must therefore also acknowledge that she is being ignorant, dishonest, or both. Which is it?
To repeat: by your own (weird and comical) standards of evidence, if she did not respond, then she must be wrong. Do you accept that?
As for 'viruses simply cannot be isolated', you know by now that this is wrong, and yet you continue to ignore or handwave away the evidence that disproves your claim. Again, please stop this dishonesty: no-one is buying it.
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Old 9th March 2022, 07:27 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
So as I repeat endlessly
Endless repetition is the foundation of Petra's argument. Examples below.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
I mean, there's absolutely nuthin' judging by what you guys have come up with: claims about hypoxaemia without shortness of breath with no data
Hypoxaemia is real, and objectively measurable using an inexpensive pulse oximeter. Hypoxaemia without shortness of breath or other obvious respiratory distress, known as silent hypoxia or happy hypoxia, is moderately common in patients suffering from COVID-19. Petra's repeated denials of those facts are unscientific.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
So STEP ONE still open to debunking.
This is at least the tenth time, and probably more like the twentieth time, that Petra has stated this false claim. Petra's STEP ONE has been debunked dozens of times, quite possibly hundreds of times, in this and the preceding thread.

Petra attempts to evade such debunking by making silly demands such as:
Originally Posted by Petra View Post
I request though that when you attempt to debunk it, do NOT simply provide links that are supposed to do that job....

Ensure that your attempts at debunking are not just a link but contain words and please ensure they do not ignore my latest comment in the conversation.
Petra has ignored many links, accompanied by words, that directly address her comments.

The word I highlighted above emphasizes the following behavior: When Petra's claims are debunked, she repeats the claim more or less verbatim so she can then say her "latest" statement of the claim has not been addressed.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
First, I have shown clearly that the suspicion of a "novel" virus is unscientific because we have been given no evidence to speak of a "cluster" of pneumonia patients or any reason to specify "of unknown origin".
That is a lie. Petra herself evinces no knowledge of the relevant science, yet she bases her claim upon her own unsupportable belief that she and she alone knows what "cluster" and "unknown origin" should mean in scientific discourse.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Can you not see how unscientific this is? First there is no reason to suspect a novel virus - 44 cases of pneumonia without clear indications of something unusual about these 44 cases doesn't make a "cluster"
Planigale, quoted in the spoiler, is one of many who have enumerated "clear indications of something unusual" that led scientists to suspect a novel virus.


Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
1) Covid-19 due to infection with SARS-CoV-2 presents as a pneumonic illness that differs in clinical features from other pneumonias such that a clinical diagnosis can be made. There is sufficient difference that it would make clinicians think that this is different from other pneumonias.
2) Post mortem appearances of those that died were different from those of other pneumonias, sufficient to make the pathologists think they were dealing with a novel infection.
3) Post mortem lungs examined under electron microscopy showed the presence of coronaviruses.
4) A novel corona virus was isolated from bronchoscopy sampling of the lungs and was grown in human cell cultures.
5) Antibodies from patients with the novel coronavirus infection were specific for the novel coronavirus.
6) Sequencing of the novel coronavirus seen under the microscope and isolated in cell culture matched PCR testing from patients. Who then developed neutralising antibodies.
7) Transmission experiments have shown the virus causes pneumonia in animal models.
8) infection experiments in humans have shown that the virus replicates in humans, and neutralising antibodies subsequently develop.

This is as much and probably more evidence than we have for any other infection. You might as well deny any other infection exists.

Isolation and sequencing and culture of the virus has been done in many places and many countries.

This reminds me of the arguments that were made by some HIV denialists who claimed that the HIV virus did not really exist.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
The whole problem with virology is that they don't take samples from non-infected people and compare them
That is an outstandingly stupid claim. Virologists distinguish infected from non-infected people by taking samples from both. There are several different kinds of test for current or prior infection with SARS-CoV-2, but all are based on taking samples, analyzing them, and comparing the results of those analyses to results that indicate infection or non-infection.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
44 patients with pneumonia doesn't make a cluster and "unknown aetiology" makes no sense in a highly-polluted city such as Wuhan.
That is another outstandingly stupid claim. If 44 patients develop pneumonia at the same time and place, that's a cluster of 44 patients with pneumonia. If the cause (etiology) of the pneumonia is unknown, then it's a cluster of 44 patients with pneumonia of unknown etiology. Knowing that the city in which the cluster appeared is highly polluted might suggest some ideas for research aimed at discovering the etiology, but the etiology remains unknown until the etiology becomes known.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
The suspicion of a novel virus is clearly unscientific.
Claiming that "suspicion of a novel virus is clearly unscientific" is just one of Petra's clearly unscientific claims.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
I simply do not know how you can keep arguing against the bleeding obvious and incontrovertible.
Petra continues to show how easy it is for conspiracy theorists to "keep arguing against the bleeding obvious and incontrovertible."

It's much harder to argue against the bleeding obvious and incontrovertible when you respect obvious and incontrovertible evidence, which is why so few here have joined Petra in "arguing against the bleeding obvious and incontrovertible."

The vacuity of Petra's argument is illustrated by the next three quotations.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Until someone provides evidence for those 44 patients with pneumonia in Wuhan to be regarded as a "cluster" - and I would have thought someone among all you apologists of the mainstream narrative would have done it by now - the suspicion of a "novel" virus is unscientific.
Originally Posted by Petra View Post
A path was followed to determine that a novel virus emerged that the world needed to be turned upside down for and I'm showing that that path is unscientific. It started, unscientifically, with an alleged "cluster" of 44 patients. Where did it go from there?
Originally Posted by Petra View Post
What I'm doing is following the path taken. We start on an unscientific foot because we are not given any reason to perceive these 44 patients as a cluster. Then we follow the path from this alleged cluster. Does the path get back on a scientific track or does it stay off it?
In those three quotations, Petra is just repeating her ridiculous claim that someone's use of the word "cluster" with its ordinary meaning in both science and English is (1) unscientific and (2) sufficiently unscientific to overturn the "bleeding obvious and incontrovertible" scientific fact that a novel virus has emerged, causing millions of deaths over a period of two years.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Thank you for pointing out the error, Clinger, however, I think you tend to miss the forest for the trees. The main point is the FOI campaign she has organised, not her qualifications,
I presume your lack of interest in qualifications is (1) the reason you (mis)identified FOI busybody Christine Massey as a microbiologist, (2) continue to write "Dr" in front of a non-practicing quack's name, (3) write "Dr John Bevan-Smith" to remind us of John's PhD in English, (4) and so on.

Originally Posted by Petra View Post
To me, what would act as a criticism of her campaign is the explanation of why the criteria she has specified are not relevant to virus isolation but I see no evidence of it. I would have thought at least ONE institution who's responded to her FOI request would have said, "No, we have no evidence of what you request, however, X, Y and Z" explaining that whatever they do possess does indeed reflect the correct scientific method used to to perform isolation of the alleged virus but I'm not aware of such a response.

Perhaps you can enlighten me Clinger.
As Cosmic Yak has pointed out, one of the institutions did indeed do what you claimed none of the institutions did. Your lack of awareness of that institution's response, and of Christine Massey's non-responses to requests for clarification of her FOI requests, simply remind us of your determination to ignore all evidence that fails to confirm your biased ignorance of this and other topics.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Petra is ignoring the fact that W.D. Clinger linked to the actual FOI requests, and the actual answers, from each institution. It really can't get any more specific than that.

....snip....

Pretty much says it all: the request is either deliberately dishonest, so as to provoke answers that can be spun into a conspiracy theory, or based on a profound ignorance of the science in question. It could, of course, be both- i.e., ignorant and dishonest.
Note also that Petra has relied heavily on a lack of response as a form of positive evidence. That criterium should also be applied here as well, then.

In her response to that, Petra again showed she is an extraordinarily poor judge of what is or is not scientific:
Originally Posted by Petra View Post
I wasn't aware of this response. I've seen other responses that simply say they don't have information as requested. It's not a good look obviously that Christine Massey didn't respond to their requests. Of course, it's a given that viruses aren't isolated as specified by her criteria - I think the point is viruses simply cannot be isolated and therefore it's unscientific to state the process has been achieved.
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