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View Poll Results: So, who leaked the Roe v. Wade Decision?
Ginni Thomas 3 11.54%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 2 7.69%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 1 3.85%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Ginni Thomas 0 0%
Planet X! Nah, just kidding, it's Ginni Thomas. 14 53.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 3rd May 2022, 08:58 AM   #1
shemp
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So, who leaked the Roe v. Wade Decision?

Place your bets.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:06 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Place your bets.
Why would it have been somebody who supports the decision? Ginni Thomas etc. don't want anybody to have a chance to incite resistance. Note that justices themselves aren't the only people who see these drafts. More likely to have been a clerk who wanted to get the word out.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:12 AM   #3
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Here's a question: The leaker will no doubt be identified. If it's a justice, there are no realistic consequences. If it's anybody else, they'll be fired. But will it affect their future career? Some prospective employers might consider them a hero.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:13 AM   #4
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//Gut feeling//

It will be a conservative, gushing over the decision.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:21 AM   #5
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What gets me is that the whole draft was leaked.

I could totally imagine any scenario in which a staffer/spouse or such finds out that the court is going to do this and passes on word of that. A clerk or justice mentions it to a spouse, workout partner, old friend. A rumor with some evidence to back it up - but that's not what happened here.

I assume that not many people have access to entire draft documents. I've got work-related draft documents on my work computer - but my spouse has no access that that, even if I work from home. I would guess the SC is the same way. At most there might be a few dozen high level clerks and staffers who could access this off a shared server, but it might even be fewer than that.

So this was very deliberative, and the leaker had to know there would be a good chance of being identified.

Last edited by crescent; 3rd May 2022 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 09:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
What gets me is that the whole draft was leaked.

I could totally imagine any scenario in which a staffer/spouse or such finds out that the court is going to do this and passes on word of that. A clerk or justice mentions it to a spouse, workout partner, old friend. A rumor with some evidence to back it up - but that's not what happened here.

I assume that not many people have access to entire draft documents. I've got work-related draft documents on my work computer - but my spouse has no access that that, even if I work from home. I would guess the SC is the same way. At most there might be a few dozen high level clerks and staffers who could access this off a shared server, but it might even be fewer than that.

So this was very deliberative, and the leaker had to know there would be a good chance of being identified.
A former SC clerk noted that this draft was written in February, and in the normal course of work there would be later versions and revisions. A current employee would likely have leaked the current version. She speculated that the leaker might be somebody who had informal access, like a friend or colleague of an employee who took it home.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 10:07 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why would it have been somebody who supports the decision? Ginni Thomas etc. don't want anybody to have a chance to incite resistance. Note that justices themselves aren't the only people who see these drafts. More likely to have been a clerk who wanted to get the word out.
Because it may have the effect of "freezing" the decision.* Justices won't want to be seen as having backed down from it, so this makes it difficult for anyone on the majority to change their mind.

Admittedly, I have no evidence that she did it. My guess is based on:

1. She had access to it.
2. She had motive to do it.
3. She's stupid enough to think she won't get caught.

* I didn't make this up, it's been a hot topic of discussion on NPR today.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 10:14 AM   #8
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Also, if it turns out I'm right, I look like a genius! And if I'm wrong, well, let's just forget the whole thing, shall we?
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Old 3rd May 2022, 10:23 AM   #9
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I believe it was the ghost of Ruth Bader Ginsberg, sent back from the afterlife to attempt to fix the damage she caused.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 10:53 AM   #10
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OK.

I admit it. It was me.

When I am not busy being the most rich, the most wonderful, and the most sexy man in the know universe, I have a side job as a Supreme Court Justice, and as such I was the one who leaked the Roe v. Wade decision.

"And I would have gotten away with too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
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Old 3rd May 2022, 02:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
OK.

I admit it. It was me.

When I am not busy being the most rich, the most wonderful, and the most sexy man in the know universe, I have a side job as a Supreme Court Justice, and as such I was the one who leaked the Roe v. Wade decision.

"And I would have gotten away with too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
You were my second choice suspect.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 02:51 PM   #12
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Old 3rd May 2022, 03:45 PM   #13
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SOme clerk at the court we...or anybody else..has ever heard of.
Apparently it might not even be a crime to leak a decision, so there might be no legal consequnces beyond being fired.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 04:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
OK.

I admit it. It was me.
You're Ginni Thomas?
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Old 3rd May 2022, 05:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You're Ginni Thomas?
You've just now figured it out? He's been dropping clues for months!
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Old 3rd May 2022, 08:27 PM   #16
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Love the poll. Not sure why she'd do it unless she was so excited she couldn't wait to tell everyone.

There are a number of law clerks and their staff. I'm not sure who all had access. Given no one has ever leaked such a preliminary document before it is possible it was handled carelessly.

OTOH, if lady GT did leak it and gets caught then yay for the trouble it will cause Mr CT.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 08:35 PM   #17
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my guess is that someone wanted to score brownie points with some anti-choice conservative, and we know that Gini Thomas had direct access to her husbands' clerks' mailing list.
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Old 4th May 2022, 04:09 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
You were my second choice suspect.
Oh man!

I am so busted.
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Old 4th May 2022, 04:47 AM   #19
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It's no question that the leak helps Republicans distract from the actual ruling.
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Old 4th May 2022, 04:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It's no question that the leak helps Republicans distract from the actual ruling.
I have seen that explanation but I doubt how long people are going to care, and how many actually do give a damn even now. Obviously the media is obsessed - but the political sections have actually not that huge viewership anyway. The long term story will be the actual decision, and interesting to see whether it will remain substantially as leaked.
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Old 4th May 2022, 05:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
I have seen that explanation but I doubt how long people are going to care, and how many actually do give a damn even now. Obviously the media is obsessed - but the political sections have actually not that huge viewership anyway. The long term story will be the actual decision, and interesting to see whether it will remain substantially as leaked.
Republicans will care if they are told to care.
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Old 4th May 2022, 06:28 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Here's a question: The leaker will no doubt be identified. If it's a justice, there are no realistic consequences. If it's anybody else, they'll be fired. But will it affect their future career? Some prospective employers might consider them a hero.
It would certainly cull your choices going forward. But, the attorneys who clerk at the SC have far more choices than your average attorney.

It also depends on why they leaked and did it achieve their goal.

If it’s a conservative who is mad that the current draft is not as clear as early draft, then it depends on how the final draft looks.

If it is a liberal who is mad that the justices who duped poor little Susan Collins are being so brazen about it, then it depends on whether they can get Collins to vote for yet another bad choice next time around.

Of course, those aren’t the only options. But the gist is: if you are seen as successful then you will continue to find people willing to hire you.
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Old 4th May 2022, 06:30 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Republicans will care if they are told to care.
I wonder if Trump can set aside his hatred of Robert’s long enough to agree with him on the leak.

No, actually I don’t. Trump will blame Roberts for the leak.
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Old 4th May 2022, 06:31 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You're Ginni Thomas?
Well, ...

Just between you and I, the answer is 'Yes'.

However, please do not share this information with anyone else, otherwise my cat will be jealous because she is both the brains and muscle of my organization whereas I am just a figurehead.
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Old 4th May 2022, 07:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


Love the poll. Not sure why she'd do it unless she was so excited she couldn't wait to tell everyone.
Possibly. Or possibly it was a case of "We have enough votes to overturn Roe now, but some justices might change their mind. Get them on record now so they don't change their mind".

Its certainly a possibility, although I'd be leaning towards a non-right wing nut job who is worried about what their ruling would do.
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Old 4th May 2022, 07:49 AM   #26
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What the odds the Republicans have done something really bad and this is a distraction?
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Old 4th May 2022, 09:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Because it may have the effect of "freezing" the decision.* Justices won't want to be seen as having backed down from it, so this makes it difficult for anyone on the majority to change their mind.

Admittedly, I have no evidence that she did it. My guess is based on:

1. She had access to it.
2. She had motive to do it.
3. She's stupid enough to think she won't get caught.

* I didn't make this up, it's been a hot topic of discussion on NPR today.
Informed speculation? How about this... She got hold of document through hubby dear wanted to gloat shared it among her sisterhood of Phyllis Schaffly. Maybe someone in the second or third tier of the network inadvertantly Or purposely decided it required greater coverage.
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Old 4th May 2022, 09:57 AM   #28
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My suspicion is that it is most likely a clerk for one of the liberal justices and that they will come forward for the adulation that is likely to follow.

Politically, the decision probably hurts the Republicans more than it does the Democrats, although perhaps at the state level more than the national level. Because make no mistake about it, that is where the battle will be fought next.

As for the leak, I don't see it having much of an effect overall.
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Old 4th May 2022, 10:17 AM   #29
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I bet it was a right-winger so they could make the leak the bigger issue than the actual decision. And since it's another few weeks before the official decision gets handed down, most people will be too burned out discussing it and will accept it as the new status quo.
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Old 4th May 2022, 10:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
I bet it was a right-winger so they could make the leak the bigger issue than the actual decision. And since it's another few weeks before the official decision gets handed down, most people will be too burned out discussing it and will accept it as the new status quo.
I doubt you could find anybody on any side of the abortion debate who thinks the leak is a bigger issue than the overturning of Roe.
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Old 4th May 2022, 11:41 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I doubt you could find anybody on any side of the abortion debate who thinks the leak is a bigger issue than the overturning of Roe.
No, but you will find people trying to convince everyone that the leak was a bigger threat to democracy than January 6. And then you’ll also find Ted Cruz so happy that nobody is asking him when he will be retreating to Cancun. I mean, making a big deal about the leak.
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Old 4th May 2022, 11:43 AM   #32
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"I'm not saying its a bigger deal but it's all I'm coming to want to talk about, especially when I get to talk over people talking about the bigger thing and drown them out" is going to get a LOT of play from the usual suspects in the upcoming days.

What people are saying and what they are actually arguing for hasn't exactly been similar in the last few years since that tactic got learned by the Proudly Wrong.
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Old 4th May 2022, 11:51 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I doubt you could find anybody on any side of the abortion debate who thinks the leak is a bigger issue than the overturning of Roe.
Genuinely believe it? I dunno. People who are acting like it's a bigger deal? You must be kidding.
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Old 4th May 2022, 06:11 PM   #34
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Here's an interesting take on it...

And by "interesting" I mean completely and utterly stupid....

From: Yahoo News
Newsmax host Grant Stinchfield suggested on Tuesday — without evidence or logic — that future Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson may be responsible for the leak of a draft ruling that would dismantle abortion rights. There’s one very big problem with this theory: Jackson isn’t on the Supreme Court yet....She isn’t involved in the ruling at all.

Has anyone checked Hunter Biden's laptop to see if there is a copy of the ruling on there?
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Old 4th May 2022, 10:30 PM   #35
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Snowden and Hillary!
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Old 5th May 2022, 03:07 AM   #36
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Old 5th May 2022, 05:19 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I doubt you could find anybody on any side of the abortion debate who thinks the leak is a bigger issue than the overturning of Roe.
Except the Republicans who are already making such a fuss.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 5th May 2022, 01:19 PM   #38
shemp
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THE GINNI HYPOTHESIS

The plot thickens.

Quote:
So here’s the theory: Ginni Thomas went rogue and leaked the draft to lock in the votes of the five justices who had already agreed to that version. This could stave off the possibility that Justices Neil Gorsuch or Bret Kavanaugh either a) negotiate with Alito to nix some of his more extreme language or b) defect for a more moderate alternative, possibly authored by Roberts — while distracting from the decision itself and getting the Roe news out earlier, so the public has moved on by the time the midterms roll around.

A justice would not leak an initial draft. It would be career suicide for a clerk or a member of court staff to do so, even with a justice’s covert blessing. Who might have access to the draft and the motive to do it? Mitch McConnell has already argued that the culprit should face criminal charges, but it’s not at all clear that leaking an opinion draft breaks the law. Could Ginni have taken a potentially legal risk to get what she wants? It would be funny, if nothing else. But I don’t see her Telegramming with Politico reporters. Neither does Jane Mayer, who we asked this morning because she has been following Ginni Thomas for decades:

Quote:
I wish I could break some spectacular news on this but unfortunately like everyone else I'm in the dark about who Dark Robe is. I've seen the speculation about Ginni and just assume it's a referendum on everyone's favorite plot twist. I'd put it in the extremely unlikely category though. Among other things, the possibility that she'd interact clandestinely with anyone in the mainstream press is about zero.
That said, the most one can assume about the leaker is that it’s a ******* person with nothing to lose. What better describes Ginni Thomas?
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No Klingon would put up with the GOP's ********.

When you least expect it... EXPECT IT!

Last edited by shemp; 5th May 2022 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 5th May 2022, 01:53 PM   #39
Galaxie
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"It was Ginni.............'s evil twin sister; yeah that's the ticket," said Clarence.
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Old 5th May 2022, 02:24 PM   #40
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Elizabeth Deutsch
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