IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 11th May 2022, 12:51 AM   #121
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I'm going to vote Republican, of course.

What are your plans?
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 12:54 AM   #122
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,679
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
why?
seriously, why?...
Dumb question..."He wants to own the libs."
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 12:57 AM   #123
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 34,167
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Dear Great Britain, we're really, really sorry. Can we move back in with you?
Have you seen what's happening over here ?

If you live in the middle bit, maybe you can suggest that France might want you back (if you still have the receipt).
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 01:01 AM   #124
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 5,041
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
why?
seriously, why?

What do you expect the next Republican Administration to do that would be beneficial to the country as a whole, or even just the people in Red States?

I am voting Republican because I don't care for the liberal vision of this country. It is that simple. I am not going to get into every little policy; I think I have voiced my opinion on many, in other threads.

In a nutshell, I'm sick of liberals. I love their anguish, these days. And since all they do is bitch and moan about how bad the USA is (while driving it further into a ditch), and screech about how much conservatives suck, I want to see them fail and suffer.
__________________
"Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it." - Navin R. Johnson

Last edited by Warp12; 11th May 2022 at 01:02 AM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 01:24 AM   #125
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,679
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am voting Republican because I don't care for the liberal vision of this country. It is that simple. I am not going to get into every little policy; I think I have voiced my opinion on many, in other threads.

In a nutshell, I'm sick of liberals. I love their anguish, these days. And since all they do is bitch and moan about how bad the USA is (while driving it further into a ditch), and screech about how much conservatives suck, I want to see them fail and suffer.
Q.E.D.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 01:25 AM   #126
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 17,700
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am voting Republican because I don't care for the liberal vision of this country. It is that simple. I am not going to get into every little policy; I think I have voiced my opinion on many, in other threads.

In a nutshell, I'm sick of liberals. I love their anguish, these days. And since all they do is bitch and moan about how bad the USA is (while driving it further into a ditch), and screech about how much conservatives suck, I want to see them fail and suffer.
And you are wondering why progressives see Conservatives as Destructive, with nothing constructive to offer?
Why they would rather vote for a Party with an actual program than for one without?

Seriously, your idea of politics is just petty and childish.

PS: check Recessions and Deficits under Republicans vs. Democrats, and it is blatantly obvious which party "drives the country into a ditch" as a matter of principle.
__________________
"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food."

- Robert M. Pirsig
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 02:26 AM   #127
Venom
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 5,776
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am voting Republican because I don't care for the liberal vision of this country. It is that simple. I am not going to get into every little policy; I think I have voiced my opinion on many, in other threads.

In a nutshell, I'm sick of liberals. I love their anguish, these days. And since all they do is bitch and moan about how bad the USA is (while driving it further into a ditch), and screech about how much conservatives suck, I want to see them fail and suffer.
All you've ever shown here is the assumptions and values that motivate your "views on the issues" are pitifully shallow. The conservatives were the ones who stood by as the Radical Right tried to overturn an election for Christ's sake. And to this day they refuse to disown the clown who started it. That alone drove the country closer to the ditch than anything that annoyed you about liberals.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 02:28 AM   #128
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,655
Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
The answer appears to be no. The US is undergoing a kind of self-similar demographic sorting, where people increasingly tend to live next to like-minded people at every level of organization, which exacerbates our political divisions and also makes resolving these divisions by separation kind of implausible, even if their were any real willingness to do so.
This is not an insoluble problem, it's just not pleasant to solve. The partition of India was achieved despite these issues.

Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
One thing I do think would help would be multi-party elections. This would probably reduce the tendency of members of one party to see the other as a hated enemy, rather than a political rival. But that's another "Ok, but how does that happen?" remedy.
You have is the same political manoeuvrings around the same monied interests. Rather than having a party who wins and then fails to live up to their campaign promises, you end up with a government that has no campaign promises. The same issues exist in Europe where many countries have the system you want. It's the same basic issue of a metropolitan elite, and associated client groups, with a radically different ethical understanding of the world to the non-metropolitan parts of the country. You have the same processes of the client groups of the metropolitan elites continually growing through immigration.

If something like proportional representation works, I guess it is by some kind of Tower of Babel process. By having people associate themselves with tiny parties, you keep the public from combining along party lines and the process of compromise is taken behind closed doors in Washington where it can be managed.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 02:34 AM   #129
Venom
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 5,776
And don't confuse your beef with progressives with that of liberals.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 02:43 AM   #130
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 5,041
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
All you've ever shown here is the assumptions and values that motivate your "views on the issues" are pitifully shallow. The conservatives were the ones who stood by as the Radical Right tried to overturn an election for Christ's sake. And to this day they refuse to disown the clown who started it. That alone drove the country closer to the ditch than anything that annoyed you about liberals.

Whatever. Democrats are the party of illegals, unbridled abortion, and chicks with wangs. Not to mention any other 10 issues that we could debate until the end of time. I'll take some batspit crazy Republicans over that insanity...every day. At least with those Republicans people call them crazy...the liberals are just called...liberals.
__________________
"Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it." - Navin R. Johnson
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 02:44 AM   #131
Lurch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,110
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
why?
seriously, why?

What do you expect the next Republican Administration to do that would be beneficial to the country as a whole, or even just the people in Red States?
Nihilism is a very real operating factor on the Right. "From Hell's heart I stab at thee!"
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 02:53 AM   #132
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,655
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Whatever. Democrats are the party of illegals, unbridled abortion, and chicks with wangs. Not to mention any other 10 issues that we could debate until the end of time. I'll take some batspit crazy Republicans over that insanity...every day. At least with those Republicans people call them crazy...the liberals are just called...liberals.
The way I've seen it explained is ... Democrats liberalise the culture, increase the size of the state and implement regulations that help corporate interests, while promising and failing to do anything about reigning in corporate interests, wealth inequality and neocon wars. Republicans remove regulations that are getting in the way of corporations and go on neocon adventures, while failing to reign in any of the social changes implemented by Democrats or reduce the size of the state.

You see people say that Leviathan always swims left. I think it's more like Leviathan always tacks towards increasing centralisation of power and the destruction of societal structures, traditions and ties that sit between the centralised power and the increasingly fungible, deracinated individual as consumer.

Last edited by shuttlt; 11th May 2022 at 03:57 AM.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 03:38 AM   #133
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,238


Please?
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 03:39 AM   #134
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Whatever. Democrats are the party of illegals, unbridled abortion, and chicks with wangs.
Translation: I despise everyone who is not as hateful as I am.
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 04:34 AM   #135
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 17,700
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post


Please?
I fear that the solution will have to come out of left-field.

One possibility is that the class of amateur reporters, many of which are doing an awesome job reporting about Ukraine, set their sites on corrupt people in power, and find enough dirt to get them indicted, forced to resign or lose elections.
the Trump Years brought a cornucopia of researchers and podcasters together to investigate his affairs, which in turned helped mainstream reporters and congressional / DOJ investigators.
Same with the Jan6th insurrectionists: without private amateur investigators, the FBI/DOJ would never have found so many of them so quickly, and linked them to their crimes.
The Leak of the Alito Draft falls into the same category.

whoever runs in 2024, especially on the GOP side, should expect to have his(yes, his) entire history put under the microscope, and then broadcasted.
__________________
"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food."

- Robert M. Pirsig
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 04:45 AM   #136
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,238
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I fear that the solution will have to come out of left-field.

One possibility is that the class of amateur reporters, many of which are doing an awesome job reporting about Ukraine, set their sites on corrupt people in power, and find enough dirt to get them indicted, forced to resign or lose elections.
the Trump Years brought a cornucopia of researchers and podcasters together to investigate his affairs, which in turned helped mainstream reporters and congressional / DOJ investigators.
Same with the Jan6th insurrectionists: without private amateur investigators, the FBI/DOJ would never have found so many of them so quickly, and linked them to their crimes.
The Leak of the Alito Draft falls into the same category.

whoever runs in 2024, especially on the GOP side, should expect to have his(yes, his) entire history put under the microscope, and then broadcasted.
I understand that whatever might happen to save democracy in the US will have to have government actors onboard, but this thread isn't supposed to be about speculating on pie-in-the-sky scenarios of how that could happen, but rather what a normal person can do today. One thing, to me, is certain: If people don't do anything, people will lose their freedom, and many will die. The US will become an authoritarian country. Depending on how the election goes this fall, it could happen in 2024, but regardless of the election, if something doesn't give, it will happen.

I should note that this is a bad thing. It's bad not only for Americans, but also for the rest of the world. We might not like it, but we need you guys, in order to combat climate change, in order to stand against authoritarianism in other places; hell, in order to see how they finish up the MCU!

Things being as they are, it's going to be up to you guys to fix this mess. It's a bummer, but that's the way it is. Your first priority should probably be to do whatever you can to protect those the fascists will come for first.

Now, it's very convenient to see a conservative poster trawling about a thread like this and post a snide remark towards that person. It feels good. Feels like you did something. Problem is, you didn't. No mind was changed and no life was saved. In fact, you played straight into his hands. The goal of conservatives is to keep the status quo, or even, to reverse to an earlier status quo. Owning them online isn't going to stop them from acheiving this, and it can keep you from being where you need to be in order to accomplish what needs to be done.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

Last edited by uke2se; 11th May 2022 at 04:50 AM.
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 04:49 AM   #137
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,655
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
One possibility is that the class of amateur reporters, many of which are doing an awesome job reporting about Ukraine, set their sites on corrupt people in power, and find enough dirt to get them indicted, forced to resign or lose elections.
the Trump Years brought a cornucopia of researchers and podcasters together to investigate his affairs, which in turned helped mainstream reporters and congressional / DOJ investigators.
Same with the Jan6th insurrectionists: without private amateur investigators, the FBI/DOJ would never have found so many of them so quickly, and linked them to their crimes.
The Leak of the Alito Draft falls into the same category.
Those are all examples of assisting with things that are in line with the interests and opinions of the Beltway. If you want to do something anti-establishment, that is rather more difficult, I think.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 05:45 AM   #138
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Whatever. Democrats are the party of illegals, unbridled abortion, and chicks with wangs. Not to mention any other 10 issues that we could debate until the end of time. I'll take some batspit crazy Republicans over that insanity...every day. At least with those Republicans people call them crazy...the liberals are just called...liberals.
None of those issues impact the standard of living of working Americans nor the future standing of the nation. All petty culture war distractions from the real issues. You have taken the bait hook line and sinker.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 05:49 AM   #139
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post


Please?
You see in this thread the embodiment of the polarisation, bloodymindedness and resignation that the country is failing to deal with. Is your own answer banging your head in frustration?
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 05:58 AM   #140
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,655
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
None of those issues impact the standard of living of working Americans nor the future standing of the nation. All petty culture war distractions from the real issues. You have taken the bait hook line and sinker.
I'm not sure that one side of the culture war gets to unilaterally tell the other what the "real issues" are. More than that though, to say that these issues are unconnected involves applying some kind of historical, cultural narrative. The two sides of the culture war have two different narratives. The progressive side tends to regard issues discreetly, the conservative side is more prone to regard them as connected into a social fabric.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 05:59 AM   #141
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
What America needs is someone with a bold vision for change and the ability to bring people on board while remaining resolute in the face of centrists who fear the electorates’ reaction to what they perceive as radical ideas or one’s easily framed as such by Fox. America hasn’t been ready for Sanders who communicated well to younger voters. Maybe it needs the boomers to die off. This board here was full of people to scared to take a chance against Trump and so here we are treading water and going backwards with
Biden.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:00 AM   #142
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I'm not sure that one side of the culture war gets to unilaterally tell the other what the "real issues" are. More than that though, to say that these issues are unconnected involves applying some kind of historical, cultural narrative. The two sides of the culture war have two different narratives. The progressive side tends to regard issues discreetly, the conservative side is more prone to regard them as connected into a social fabric.
Please tell us how illegals, unbridled abortion, and chicks with wangs are connected into a social fabric.
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:06 AM   #143
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
Ironically, and I'll sit down and expand on this later, this is probably the first time anything resembling truth has been included in a Warp12 post.

I think he's right. He doesn't oppose Democrats for any logical or moral or political reason. He just hates them the way some people hate spiders or snakes. There's nothing the Democrats can do to make Warp12 stop hating them because it's not a logical or even emotional in the traditional sense decision.

Why ~40% of Americans find the core, philosophical idea of "A Democrat" as so toxic they'll burn the whole country down while giggling at the screams is a question that, in some form, will have to go on the table at some point.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:07 AM   #144
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I'm not sure that one side of the culture war gets to unilaterally tell the other what the "real issues" are.
This statement is only true is situations where one side isn't this level of wrong for no motivation beyond "I hate the idea of the other side."

Compromise leaves the table when one side's goal has been reduced to "The other side can't win."
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:09 AM   #145
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,655
Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Please tell us how illegals, unbridled abortion, and chicks with wangs are connected into a social fabric.
They either undermine the social fabric or changes to society to prioritise their interests does.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:14 AM   #146
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I'm not sure that one side of the culture war gets to unilaterally tell the other what the "real issues" are. More than that though, to say that these issues are unconnected involves applying some kind of historical, cultural narrative. The two sides of the culture war have two different narratives. The progressive side tends to regard issues discreetly, the conservative side is more prone to regard them as connected into a social fabric.
The culture wars are a distraction from the growing wealth and power divide in the country. These are emotional issues that are inflamed all to easily by the media and politicians. There is no good reason for people to fear and hate someone who wears clothes contrary to cultural gender norms or has goes through medical procedure to change. Neither is opposition to abortion easily explained by caring about embryos or foetuses. Its pure tribalistic fervour and the flames are being fanned by a media who sells clicks and views as well as politicians seeking cheep votes.

These are not issues that may make America great again or improve the standard of living for ordinary Americans. Pure distraction for corporations to do as they will stripping wages and conditions while doing as little as possible about climate and environment.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:15 AM   #147
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,238
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
You see in this thread the embodiment of the polarisation, bloodymindedness and resignation that the country is failing to deal with. Is your own answer banging your head in frustration?
No, what I see is people who would rather devote their partipation in yet another thread to "owning" each other rather than face the very real problems in their country with any form of productivity.

Has anyone called for a general strike yet? Is there any organizing taking place towards acheiving that? If only urban Democrats striked it would shut the country down. If people on the left also participated, it would be a revolution.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:15 AM   #148
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
//Insert doomed attempt to explain the Paradox of Tolerance to people who know very damn well what it means but just don't care for the 50th time here//
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:16 AM   #149
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
They either undermine the social fabric or changes to society to prioritise their interests does.
Undermine the social fabric? Sounds scary.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:17 AM   #150
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, what I see is people who would rather devote their partipation in yet another thread to "owning" each other rather than face the very real problems in their country with any form of productivity.

Has anyone called for a general strike yet? Is there any organizing taking place towards acheiving that? If only urban Democrats striked it would shut the country down. If people on the left also participated, it would be a revolution.
That is a good idea but you need also a leader with a vision for change. Who is that? What is the vision?
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:19 AM   #151
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
But again, oddly, this is the closest to the truth I think we've been able to wring out of the... colorful characters on the Right.

They don't hate gays, women, etc, etc in the way we think they do, they just have some odd, seething, completely irrational and out of any bounds of logic mix of hate and fear at the idea of living in a world where there's a lot of them around just existing.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:19 AM   #152
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,238
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
That is a good idea but you need also a leader with a vision for change. Who is that? What is the vision?
My vision is a country that stands up for democratic values and that values and empowers all its citizens. It's not an unusal vision. Lack of it isn't the problem. Lack of action is. That's why women are about to lose their rights in the US.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:21 AM   #153
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
Waiting for a Messiah figure is how we got Trump.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:22 AM   #154
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,149
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Insert doomed attempt to explain the Paradox of Tolerance to people who know very damn well what it means but just don't care for the 50th time here//
I know what it means, I just disagree that it is an actual problem.
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:23 AM   #155
EaglePuncher
Critical Thinker
 
EaglePuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
They either undermine the social fabric or changes to society to prioritise their interests does.
I don't understand anything in this sentence, can you please rephrase or elaborate

(Especially the part about illegals and chicks with wangs, how are they connected again?)
__________________
You know you found a real "conservative" when they complain about virtue signalling while not realizing that they are virtue signalling.
EaglePuncher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:23 AM   #156
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
We definitely shouldn't tolerate chicks with illegal wangs. If she's packing a chainsaw down there it needs to be regulated.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:29 AM   #157
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,172
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Waiting for a Messiah figure is how we got Trump.
He certainly sold himself as a messiah but it wasn't how many of his supporters saw him.

Great leaders do emerge and grow. America has had them. No, not a messiah but an intelligent visionary and communicator. Someone who can rediscover some of the optimism of the founders. Someone who can reignite the modernist optimism for our ability to uncover truth.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 06:33 AM   #158
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 39,418
Well I often said the problem with dealing with Trump was that he had like... 3 or 4 ish completely different bases depending on how you want to look at, all with different motivations, and anything he did that pissed on one base made another happier.

- Republicans who were going to vote for anything with an (R) next to their name.
- Evangelicals who literally did seem to think Trump was some sort of second coming.
- People who didn't (on some level) even like Trump but saw him as a flaming bag of dog poop to put on the doorsteps of "The Liberals"
- Our old friends the Nihilistic Trolls who cared about nothing but how funny it was that Trump made people made.

And anything you did to combat 1 of those was going to feed some or all of the other 3.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 07:17 AM   #159
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 51,349
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Has anyone called for a general strike yet? Is there any organizing taking place towards acheiving that? If only urban Democrats striked it would shut the country down. If people on the left also participated, it would be a revolution.
To accomplish what?

Blue states are failing. They do not achieve their own goals, even when Republicans have no power to provide any real opposition. What would a general strike accomplish, that voting Democrats into power has consistently failed to do? What exactly is being demanded, and who exactly is it being demanded of?

I keep seeing Republicans being blamed in this thread for everything, but it doesn't actually square with the evidence. And in case there's any confusion on this point, I'm not saying Democrats are to blame for everything either, or that Republicans are the solution, because there's no reason to think that either. But if you think Republicans or Democrats are the problem, then you don't actually understand the problem at all.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2022, 07:28 AM   #160
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,655
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I keep seeing Republicans being blamed in this thread for everything, but it doesn't actually square with the evidence. And in case there's any confusion on this point, I'm not saying Democrats are to blame for everything either, or that Republicans are the solution, because there's no reason to think that either. But if you think Republicans or Democrats are the problem, then you don't actually understand the problem at all.
I agree completely.
shuttlt is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:32 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.