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Old 14th June 2018, 06:03 AM   #41
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
There is some difference between a union that is about 30 years old, comprising member states that differ in culture and language, who were at war with each other several times in the last hundred years, and a union that is over two hundred years old, and has a much more uniform national culture, and common language, who's last war amongst themselves was over 150 years ago.
No, there isn't.
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Old 14th June 2018, 06:17 AM   #42
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Its a good Idea that would benefit the citizens of California and the US as a whole but it would not benefit the legislators in Sacramento so it will not happen.

I agree it would produce two reliably Dem states and 1 probably swing state.

The US is a federal system in which State retain some sovereignty. We'd need a constitutional convention in which state governments agreed to give that up that sovereignty to redraw all the boundaries. Good luck with that. Personally, I like a federal system personally, especially with a nation of the size and diversity of the US.
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Old 14th June 2018, 07:31 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is the present. No one looks at the EU and starts trying to rearrange those borders.
Is the EU a nation?
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Old 14th June 2018, 07:42 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is the EU a nation?
Yes.
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Old 14th June 2018, 08:08 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes.
No.
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Old 14th June 2018, 08:18 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
No.
We seem to be at a standstill
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Old 14th June 2018, 08:33 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Dakota territory was split into North and South Dakota,but that was before the Dakotas gained statehood.
A lot of territories have been split or had boundaries readjusted prior to statehood. IIRC, the only split of a state other than Virginia/West Virginia was when Maine was split from Massachusetts in 1820

Last edited by CORed; 14th June 2018 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 14th June 2018, 08:44 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That would definitely explain why people keep talking about splitting it up. Because even though it's got several distinct cultural-economic terroirs, it's not actually three states.
You do realize he listed 2 Mexican states there? Anyways, you could say that about many states. For example, the north central mountains of New Mexico (ie Taos) have very little to do with the SE part of the state, which rely on natural gas and oil drilling for their economy and are culturally pretty much Texas-west.
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Old 14th June 2018, 10:54 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
A lot of territories have been split or had boundaries readjusted prior to statehood. IIRC, the only split of a state other than Virginia/West Virginia was when Maine was split from Massachusetts in 1820
Yep, and both were extremely special circumstances. Allowing Maine to become a state was part of the Missouri compromise, where 1 slave state and one non-slave state were admitted to the union together. And of course Abe Lincoln was going to allow West Virginia to split off from the Confederacy.
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Old 14th June 2018, 11:48 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
You do realize he listed 2 Mexican states there?
Ha! I did not realize that! Shame on me. I apologize for ruining what was actually a good joke.
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Old 14th June 2018, 01:26 PM   #51
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Catsmate left out the other Washington, and Oregon. Both have the Cascade Mountains down the middle, providing a nice East-West divide. In both states, the eastern half is reliably Republican, except for college towns, and constantly complain about the burdens put on them by the liberal halves of each state. In both states, that eastern half gets much more from taxes than they pay into them, while the most liberal areas get much less. In both states, the eastern halves have brought up splitting on a regular basis. I'm all for it, myself.

A fair portion of Western Washington would be perfectly happy to become Canadian, too.
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Old 14th June 2018, 01:35 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Catsmate left out the other Washington, and Oregon. Both have the Cascade Mountains down the middle, providing a nice East-West divide. In both states, the eastern half is reliably Republican, except for college towns, and constantly complain about the burdens put on them by the liberal halves of each state. In both states, that eastern half gets much more from taxes than they pay into them, while the most liberal areas get much less. In both states, the eastern halves have brought up splitting on a regular basis. I'm all for it, myself.

A fair portion of Western Washington would be perfectly happy to become Canadian, too.
Not just an east/west divide. There's a strong argument that Southwest Washington and Northwest Oregon are a better fit. Vancouver (the original one, not that one up in BC) and Portland are effectively one metropolitan area. The interests of the Puget Sound area (Seattle/Tacoma) are quite separate. It would have made more sense if the state borders were drawn along ridge lines rather than rivers. The Columbia and Willamette watersheds would make a nice state.
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Old 14th June 2018, 01:45 PM   #53
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http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c...f_america.html

I do like the four state solution.
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Old 14th June 2018, 02:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Catsmate left out the other Washington, and Oregon. Both have the Cascade Mountains down the middle, providing a nice East-West divide. In both states, the eastern half is reliably Republican, except for college towns, and constantly complain about the burdens put on them by the liberal halves of each state. In both states, that eastern half gets much more from taxes than they pay into them, while the most liberal areas get much less. In both states, the eastern halves have brought up splitting on a regular basis. I'm all for it, myself.

State of Lincoln

What we libs really need is to combine some the over-represented red zones. Montana, Wyoming, and both Dakotas would be a good start, then go on into Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma. Those are every bit as likely as splitting Cal of course.

ETA: MonWyoDak would still rank only about 30th in population.

Quote:
A fair portion of Western Washington would be perfectly happy to become Canadian, too.
I'd vote for that.
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Old 14th June 2018, 03:50 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
... I'd like to know what's in it for him.
A lot of blue votes turning red in the electoral college.

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Old 14th June 2018, 05:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
A lot of blue votes turning red in the electoral college.

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Alhough the Republicans leaders in California being asked about it think it's a crazy idea.
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Old 14th June 2018, 05:54 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Arizona Bay...

"Where will you go, when there's no San Francisco,
You better get ready to land your Boat in Idaho
Hey, Can you Swim
Better learn quick, Jim"


All to a reggae beat.
this was a hit song in California circa 1971, when there was a number of psychics predicted that California would soon fall into the ocean.
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Old 14th June 2018, 07:35 PM   #58
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My county is festooned with State of Jefferson signs. They look almost as trashy as the worthless humans that keep putting them up.
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Old 14th June 2018, 07:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
My county is festooned with State of Jefferson signs. They look almost as trashy as the worthless humans that keep putting them up.
I find that amusing given that years ago in my state of Washington there waa a push to split the State as well making the Eastern half, the State of Jefferson as well. It has been reliably Republican but the Eastern half of the State receives far more in state spending than it pays into state coffers.
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Old 14th June 2018, 08:53 PM   #60
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State of the Jeffersons? That would be moving on up!
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Old 14th June 2018, 10:27 PM   #61
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I just looked at the split that is proposed. Sorry, but splitting up LA and OC doesn't make any sense. There is no natural boundary between them. It's a single continuous metro area going south to Camp Pendleton (marine base).

And then there is the matter of water. Precious water. Just name the Southern part the "Land of Downstream Losers".
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Old 16th June 2018, 12:27 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
I just looked at the split that is proposed. Sorry, but splitting up LA and OC doesn't make any sense. There is no natural boundary between them. It's a single continuous metro area going south to Camp Pendleton (marine base).

And then there is the matter of water. Precious water. Just name the Southern part the "Land of Downstream Losers".
What? It makes perfect sense: it's the best way to get the largest population total (most Electoral college votes) while still creating a comfortable Republican majority.
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Old 16th June 2018, 06:31 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
State of the Jeffersons? That would be moving on up!
Only if it were on the East side.
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Old 17th June 2018, 07:02 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes.
Not in the Real World.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We seem to be at a standstill
You need to base your posts more on actual facts.
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Old 17th June 2018, 07:06 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Catsmate left out the other Washington, and Oregon. Both have the Cascade Mountains down the middle, providing a nice East-West divide. In both states, the eastern half is reliably Republican, except for college towns, and constantly complain about the burdens put on them by the liberal halves of each state. In both states, that eastern half gets much more from taxes than they pay into them, while the most liberal areas get much less. In both states, the eastern halves have brought up splitting on a regular basis. I'm all for it, myself.

A fair portion of Western Washington would be perfectly happy to become Canadian, too.
I'll dig out my notes tomorrow and see if I bothered to include them. I suspect bits joined Greater Canada or with the Pacific Commonwealth (set-up California reborn). Some would remain independent until the NAU formed in the 2020s.
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Old 18th June 2018, 01:40 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
My county is festooned with State of Jefferson signs. They look almost as trashy as the worthless humans that keep putting them up.
The irony is this plan will not give people the "State of Jefferson".
California above the Tehachapies will stay the same. It's So Cal that will be split.
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Old 18th June 2018, 02:05 PM   #67
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I'm a native Southern Californian. I have no interest at all in a split. I don't hear anyone IRL talking about it either.
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Old 18th June 2018, 04:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
I'm a native Southern Californian. I have no interest at all in a split. I don't hear anyone IRL talking about it either.
This forum has become pretty well divorced from the real world.
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Old 18th June 2018, 05:49 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
I'm a native Southern Californian. I have no interest at all in a split. I don't hear anyone IRL talking about it either.
TBF, it could be argued that Southern Californians are just to superficial and self-absorbed to know what people are saying in the other (unimportant) parts of the State.
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Old 19th June 2018, 07:09 PM   #70
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I think we should gerrymander one state for the minority.

Yup, a Caucasian State.
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