ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 14th June 2018, 12:37 PM   #1
Steve
Illuminator
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,936
Registered Republican/Democrat

I am curious about the details of declaring political party affiliations in the US. Here in Canada we of course are free to join a political party of our choosing and participate in the activities of that party. From reading the numerous politics threads here it seems to me that in the US it goes somewhat further. If I understand correctly your registered political affiliation is actually a part of the information contained in your voter registration. This would seem to indicate that anyone with access to the voters register would have advance information of how voting should go in any particular location and ultimately to how a general vote would go. This seems to lead to the possibility of unscrupulous political manipulation.

My question then is - What do Americans see as the reasons and advantages to having their party affiliations publicly declared on the voters register?
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 12:42 PM   #2
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 44,154
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I am curious about the details of declaring political party affiliations in the US. Here in Canada we of course are free to join a political party of our choosing and participate in the activities of that party. From reading the numerous politics threads here it seems to me that in the US it goes somewhat further. If I understand correctly your registered political affiliation is actually a part of the information contained in your voter registration. This would seem to indicate that anyone with access to the voters register would have advance information of how voting should go in any particular location and ultimately to how a general vote would go. This seems to lead to the possibility of unscrupulous political manipulation.

My question then is - What do Americans see as the reasons and advantages to having their party affiliations publicly declared on the voters register?
Well for one thing in states that do not have open primaries, it lets you vote for a candidate for that party.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 12:43 PM   #3
madurobob
Philosopher
 
madurobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blue Heaven
Posts: 7,370
Party registration is not required. But...

Parties run their own primaries, and in most cases if you are registered with one party you cannot participate in the other party's primary. In some states if you register independent you can vote in either party's primary.
__________________
I love you and I vote.
madurobob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 12:48 PM   #4
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 28,998
That pretty much covers it.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 12:51 PM   #5
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,101
Registrations are also used for fundraising, "get out the vote" efforts, and yes, in some obnoxious cases voter suppression (although this is mostly restricted to white supremacists, who don't bother with registration data since the US is highly segregated by race anyway and they can simply go by neighborhood/town/etc).
Mumbles is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 12:59 PM   #6
Steve
Illuminator
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,936
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well for one thing in states that do not have open primaries, it lets you vote for a candidate for that party.
Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
Party registration is not required. But...

Parties run their own primaries, and in most cases if you are registered with one party you cannot participate in the other party's primary. In some states if you register independent you can vote in either party's primary.
Ok. Primaries as I understand it are votes held by the party to determine candidates. I understand that this would require party membership, but here in Canada party membership is completely separate from voter registration. I am wondering why party registration is included as part of the general registered voter list.

It is quite possible that I am misunderstanding this. I formed the question because today someone posted the following statement in another thread:

"People like me, who moved a year ago and have not yet squared my new address away with the voter registrar. I am registered Republican so they probably won't purge me completely"

This makes me think that the voters list can be manipulated based on party affiliation info contained on the list
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 01:02 PM   #7
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15,687
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I am curious about the details of declaring political party affiliations in the US. Here in Canada we of course are free to join a political party of our choosing and participate in the activities of that party. From reading the numerous politics threads here it seems to me that in the US it goes somewhat further. If I understand correctly your registered political affiliation is actually a part of the information contained in your voter registration. This would seem to indicate that anyone with access to the voters register would have advance information of how voting should go in any particular location and ultimately to how a general vote would go. This seems to lead to the possibility of unscrupulous political manipulation.
Voting registration in a district is only an imperfect measure of how the voters will actually vote. As an example, there are a lot more registered Democrats in Massachusetts than there are Republicans. This is reflected in the fact that every member of Congress from the Bay State (including both House and Senate) is a Democrat. And yet, oddly enough the only Democratic governor of the state since 1991 was Deval Patrick (2007-2015).

I am not sure what unscrupulous political manipulations you imagine this could lead to. One benefit from my viewpoint is that having a declared party affiliation makes it harder for people to monkey-wrench the system by voting en masse in the other party's primary (in closed primary states) to try to nominate a weaker candidate.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 01:13 PM   #8
Metullus
Forum ĺ-Wit Pro Tem
 
Metullus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,037
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
"People like me, who moved a year ago and have not yet squared my new address away with the voter registrar. I am registered Republican so they probably won't purge me completely"

This makes me think that the voters list can be manipulated based on party affiliation info contained on the list
I call BS on this. If you move within a precinct you can remain on the election rolls unchanged, although you are required to change your address with the Registrar of Voters. If you move to an address outside of your precinct you cannot legally vote in your original precinct. In the latter case it would likely be several years before your registration is purged if you do not notify the Registrar of your move and do not vote illegally, regardless of your party affiliation.
__________________
I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim.

Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy

Last edited by Metullus; 14th June 2018 at 01:14 PM.
Metullus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 02:40 PM   #9
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,196
Party registration depends on the state, of course. There's no such thing here in TheOtherWashington. That's led to problems with our primary election system, with the two big parties winning a federal lawsuit to get rid of our wide-open primary system. That's resulted in eliminating virtually all third-party candidates from general elections.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 04:05 PM   #10
GodMark2
Master Poster
 
GodMark2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 2,051
Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
I call BS on this. If you move within a precinct you can remain on the election rolls unchanged, although you are required to change your address with the Registrar of Voters. If you move to an address outside of your precinct you cannot legally vote in your original precinct. In the latter case it would likely be several years before your registration is purged if you do not notify the Registrar of your move and do not vote illegally, regardless of your party affiliation.
However, it does open up the potential for someone to challenge "Steve at 123 Fake St" as a valid voter on the rolls if he's now "Steve at 123 Even Fakeer St". And, if they get him removed in semi-secret (by bundling him in with a bunch of other similarly possibly-not-completely-correct enrolees and rushing the job through as fast as possible (or even faster than possible, as demonstrated in some cases)), it can be a lot of work to get back on, which may not be completed until after the election, effectively stealing his right to vote.

Republicans have shown a great propensity to do exactly this in majority-Democrat districts. Democrats, oddly, have not shown such a propensity, preferring to actively get more people on the voter rolls instead. So, if he is a registered Republican, it is less likely that someone will try to get him removed, even with his lack of proper address registration.
__________________
Knowing that we do not know, it does not necessarily follow that we can not know.
GodMark2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 05:53 PM   #11
Metullus
Forum ĺ-Wit Pro Tem
 
Metullus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,037
Originally Posted by GodMark2 View Post
However, it does open up the potential for someone to challenge "Steve at 123 Fake St" as a valid voter on the rolls if he's now "Steve at 123 Even Fakeer St".
It is Steve's responsibility to make certain he notifies the Registrar of Voters of his new address when he moves. It is not the responsibility of the Registrar to somehow determine that "Steve at 123 Even Fakeer St" is the same person as "Steve at 123 Fake St" or to even assume that "Steve at 123 Even Fakeer St" is entitled to vote.
Quote:
And, if they get him removed in semi-secret (by bundling him in with a bunch of other similarly possibly-not-completely-correct enrolees and rushing the job through as fast as possible (or even faster than possible, as demonstrated in some cases)), it can be a lot of work to get back on, which may not be completed until after the election, effectively stealing his right to vote.
It is not so very difficult to confirm one's voter registration status - typically a phone call or a visit to the county registrar's website is sufficient. This is not a great burden if you have recently moved. Neither is re-registering to vote - this typically involves filling out a form and checking a box that says you are over 18 and another box that says hat you are eligible to vote. I have never been required to even show ID when registering, and I have done so in four sates and I don't know how many different counties. I know that in Ohio no ID is required to register.
__________________
I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim.

Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy
Metullus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 06:01 PM   #12
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,565
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I am not sure what unscrupulous political manipulations you imagine this could lead to. One benefit from my viewpoint is that having a declared party affiliation makes it harder for people to monkey-wrench the system by voting en masse in the other party's primary (in closed primary states) to try to nominate a weaker candidate.

Well, in Canada we take care of that by making people buy a membership in the party if they want to take part in the candidate selection vote. You could stuff the ballot box like this if you really wanted to, but only by supplying quite a bit of funding to the party you're trying to screw over.

I joined the federal Conservative party here last year so I could vote for one candidate in particular, and I think it cost me $25. There were about 250,000 people registered, so you do the math on how much it would cost to buy enough memberships to sway that vote.

Oh, and the parties have rules about having to pay for your own membership - every time they have a nomination vote, there's people looking out for someone trying to buy memberships for other people. So even if you had a few million to waste on trying this, you'd likely get caught.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 07:13 PM   #13
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NeverLand
Posts: 14,648
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Ok. Primaries as I understand it are votes held by the party to determine candidates. I understand that this would require party membership, but here in Canada party membership is completely separate from voter registration. I am wondering why party registration is included as part of the general registered voter list.
In the US, as opposed to Canada and most others, primaries are run by public administration. US elections are more candidate focused and the parties are weak. People aren't due paying party members and the parties don't choose candidates, which is why we have the occasional Nazi running as a Republican. How primaries are run varies by state, with open, closed, caucus, blanket, and many more differences. Some states require voters to register with an affiliation in order to vote in that party's primary. But many don't. My state doesn't have party affiliation on the registration.

As for the history:

Quote:
The formal, legally regulated primary system is peculiar to the United States. The earliest method for nominating candidates was the caucus, which was adopted in colonial times for local offices and continued into the 19th century for state and national offices. Party conventions were instituted as a means of checking the abuses of the caucus system but also became subject to abuses, which led first to their regulation and ultimately to their elimination for most offices except president and vice president. After 1890, mandatory regulations transformed the primary into an election that is conducted by public officers at public expense.

Although direct primaries were used as early as the 1840s, the primary system came into general use only in the early 20th century. The movement spread so rapidly that by 1917 all but four states had adopted the direct primary for some or all statewide nominations. For the presidential contest, however, primaries fell into disfavour and were generally used in fewer than 20 states until the 1970s, after which most states adopted primaries. Attention from the news media has increased the importance of presidential primaries to the point where success—especially in New Hampshire (which usually has held the first presidential primary) and in other early primaries—gives a candidate a great advantage in publicity and private campaign funding, whereas failure can end a campaign.
Linky.

A longer and more detailed history for why is here.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

Last edited by Tsukasa Buddha; 14th June 2018 at 07:18 PM.
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 07:39 PM   #14
Norman Alexander
Master Poster
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,941
Just FYI, the same basic setup for party membership and voting exists in the UK and Australia. Party selection of candidates and leadership is internal to that party and its members.

Of course, there's lots of splits, alliances, ructions and argy-bargy inside each major party over this. Some parties have "democratic" rules for selections, with a formal membership process. For others it is sorted out behind the bike-sheds like men (apparently). And no doubt some parties work by a series of bribes and pay-offs and gutter-sniping to pick their people. And party membership rules vary just as much (do you know the secret handshake? )

But none of this has any bearing on voting registration. Party membership is much more akin to membership of a sporting fan-club. You join if you want to, and participate as much as you wish. Voting registration is unrelated completely.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 07:39 PM   #15
Steve
Illuminator
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,936
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
In the US, as opposed to Canada and most others, primaries are run by public administration. US elections are more candidate focused and the parties are weak. People aren't due paying party members and the parties don't choose candidates, which is why we have the occasional Nazi running as a Republican. How primaries are run varies by state, with open, closed, caucus, blanket, and many more differences. Some states require voters to register with an affiliation in order to vote in that party's primary. But many don't. My state doesn't have party affiliation on the registration.

As for the history:



Linky.

A longer and more detailed history for why is here.
Thanks. This is very much the type of info I was looking for. I have a better understanding now.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 08:07 PM   #16
carlitos
"mŠs divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,339
Registered Republican/Democrat

In my state (Illinois), we donít have to join or declare or register with a party. You do have to ask for a party ballot when you go vote on primary day. So you choose one - republican or Democrat, plus libertarian and maybe green depending on whether they polled 5% in the prior cycle, thus earning a statewide primary.

So - asking for that ballot on primary day is the only declaration. This means that I am a registered libertarian, Republican or Democrat depending on which party primary I thought was most important. I live in cook county, so iím usually a Democrat in non presidential years. I voted in the republican primary in 16 and Democrat this year because of the local races that impacted me. No republican has a chance, so the democratic primary is the real Election Day for everything local.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2018, 10:26 PM   #17
gabeygoat
Graduate Poster
 
gabeygoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,172
In Oregon, it’s all vote by mail. Declaring party on your registration makes sense, since the state distributed the ballots, so as a registered Democrat, I get a ballot of only Democratic candidates (for primaries).
__________________
"May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq
gabeygoat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 12:06 AM   #18
Sherkeu
Muse
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 928
About half the voters in California are either registered without a party(25%) or not registered at all(the other 25%). You can register up to election day so, depending on the race, there may not be as much information about voters as you might think.

link
Quote:
For the first time, the number of voters registered with No Party Preference has surpassed those registered with the Republican Party in California. Voters registered with the Democratic Party remain the largest group.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 12:08 AM   #19
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,593
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I am not sure what unscrupulous political manipulations you imagine this could lead to.

Doesn't it facilitate gerrymandering?
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 12:50 AM   #20
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7,719
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It is quite possible that I am misunderstanding this. I formed the question because today someone posted the following statement in another thread:
I made the comment you are referring to and I was semi-joking about my party status affecting the possibility of my vote being purged/challenged.

But there's a larger point. For years my Congress guy was fine by me because he was a fairly principled libertarian-style Republican. But now, I've moved to a different part of the state and don't know the candidates well. I would not ordinarily make up my mind based on party affiliation, but I also don't want Republicans to dominate both houses of Congress. If I don't take care of the paperwork soon I won't be on the list when I show up at the new polling place, which moots my franchise.

As a registered Republican, during the 2018 primary I can help pick the candidate who will be on the ballot for the Senate general-election race. Do I pick the moderate, who I could probably live with in the Senate even under Trump, or do I pick the Republican most likely to lose in the primary, thus helping the chances of the Democrat? If I don't take care of this soon I won't be able to vote at all.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 12:55 AM   #21
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NeverLand
Posts: 14,648
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Doesn't it facilitate gerrymandering?
I don't know for certain the magic behind REDMAP, but Wisconsin is one of the cases about to be decided at the Supreme Court that has heavy partisan gerrymandering but does not have registered party affiliation.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 03:19 AM   #22
paulhutch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,238
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
As an example, there are a lot more registered Democrats in Massachusetts than there are Republicans.
Currently Massachusetts Democrats outnumber Republicans by ~3:1. However Massachusetts has more independent voters (2.2 million, officially called unenrolled) than all other parties combined (just under 2 million). Since independent voters can vote in either primary, both parties know they can't win even their own primaries with only support from their base.
paulhutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 04:30 AM   #23
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 82,978
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Thanks. This is very much the type of info I was looking for. I have a better understanding now.
It is a peculiarity of the USA system, I think for us not brought up with it the idea that government has anything to do with the running of a political party seems rather wrong. But suspect that's just perception rather than anything real.

It's also why the USA parties can be and are such broad churches compared to other types of political parties such as say we have in the UK in which a candidate campaigns largely on the party's manifesto. (Matters of conscience are usually set apart from this expectation.)
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 06:19 AM   #24
ahhell
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,653
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Ok. Primaries as I understand it are votes held by the party to determine candidates. I understand that this would require party membership, but here in Canada party membership is completely separate from voter registration. I am wondering why party registration is included as part of the general registered voter list.

It is quite possible that I am misunderstanding this. I formed the question because today someone posted the following statement in another thread:

"People like me, who moved a year ago and have not yet squared my new address away with the voter registrar. I am registered Republican so they probably won't purge me completely"

This makes me think that the voters list can be manipulated based on party affiliation info contained on the list
Its really kind of an historical quirk really. The parties used to select their candidates internally, this is the source for the smoke filled room trope, and for the Presidency at the national convention. At some point states started going to primaries to make the party process more democratic. Since the states run the primaries rather than the parties we've ended up with the current system where party affiliation is basically public information. I don't think we'd choose that if we had thought about it, we just stumbled into it.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th June 2018, 06:33 AM   #25
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 22,972
Some of this varies with the state. IN Connecticut, where I lived for many years, voter registration was done by party. There were two registrars, one Democrat and one Republican. A person could register as an indepedent with either but for one party or another with the person of that party. Primaries and caucuses were party-only affairs, and party registration determined whether you had a voice in any nominations. At the small town level, party affiliation was important because all the nominations occurred in party caucuses. One could run as an independent by petition, but it was rare, and in a small town such as mine, in which the ratio was about two to one Republican, the practical result was that elections were decided at the caucus. Connecticut has a minority representation law, requiring that no commission or board of multiple members can be all of one party. So if there was a board of three people, the Republicans would get two and the Democrats one. In areas where there was little contest, the Republicans would nominate two and the Democrats one. So though the Democrat would always lose the vote, he'd get the third seat.

Voting was by machine, and organized by party. One could always split a ticket and vote individuals, and independents were present, but each of the two major parties had a "party lever," whereby one could vote the entire party slate with a single action.

Here in Vermont, there is no party registration at all, and thus no public record of affiliation. Primaries are open, and though there is still a party mechanism for nominations, it's rarely used at the local level and people run by petition. I don't know if there's a minority representation rule, but if there is, it's not visible. Voting is by paper ballot, and though party affiliation is noted, each vote is separately made. Somewhere further up there is a party organization that runs statewide nominations, but I don't know exactly how it's organized.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

Last edited by bruto; 15th June 2018 at 06:35 AM.
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2018, 07:41 AM   #26
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 44,154
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Doesn't it facilitate gerrymandering?
Not really, actual vote counts by district would likely be a more reliable number than party membership anyway and that is public data.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2018, 07:47 AM   #27
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 44,154
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Its really kind of an historical quirk really. The parties used to select their candidates internally, this is the source for the smoke filled room trope, and for the Presidency at the national convention. At some point states started going to primaries to make the party process more democratic. Since the states run the primaries rather than the parties we've ended up with the current system where party affiliation is basically public information. I don't think we'd choose that if we had thought about it, we just stumbled into it.
It also has to do with states determining who is on the ballot for the general election. So the states can pass what ever law they want to select candidates for the general election. Like how in california you are not even guaranteed to get a republican running in the general election, as they don't have party affiliation as a selector of candidates. It is the two highest vote getters in the primary regardless of party.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2018, 07:49 AM   #28
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 13,882
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Its really kind of an historical quirk really. The parties used to select their candidates internally, this is the source for the smoke filled room trope, and for the Presidency at the national convention. At some point states started going to primaries to make the party process more democratic. Since the states run the primaries rather than the parties we've ended up with the current system where party affiliation is basically public information. I don't think we'd choose that if we had thought about it, we just stumbled into it.
My party still does delegates chosen at coventions who then go and listen to candidates at the national.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th June 2018, 07:51 AM   #29
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,599
Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
In Oregon, itís all vote by mail. Declaring party on your registration makes sense, since the state distributed the ballots, so as a registered Democrat, I get a ballot of only Democratic candidates (for primaries).
Colorado does that now, too, but if you're not registered as a Democrat or a Republican, then you get both primary ballots. However, you're only allowed to submit one or the other, which many people haven't understood so they invalidated their vote by returning both.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th June 2018, 10:13 PM   #30
gabeygoat
Graduate Poster
 
gabeygoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,172
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Colorado does that now, too, but if you're not registered as a Democrat or a Republican, then you get both primary ballots. However, you're only allowed to submit one or the other, which many people haven't understood so they invalidated their vote by returning both.
Ah, thatís a bummer. I hate to see votes get invalidated
__________________
"May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq
gabeygoat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2018, 06:00 AM   #31
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 15,618
To com[pare with the UK system of first the selection, then coalitions form, at least here in America we know the planks of the platforms ahead of time.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2018, 06:19 AM   #32
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,269
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
To com[pare with the UK system of first the selection, then coalitions form, at least here in America we know the planks of the platforms ahead of time.
Well tbh here in the UK coalitions are pretty rare.

Before the "ConDem" coalition which was in power 2010-2015 the previous one was during WWII IIRC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ion_government

...and in the case of the most recent one, the senior partner got the legislation passed they wanted in any case.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2018, 06:26 AM   #33
ahhell
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,653
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Colorado does that now, too, but if you're not registered as a Democrat or a Republican, then you get both primary ballots. However, you're only allowed to submit one or the other, which many people haven't understood so they invalidated their vote by returning both.
I'm not sure how they can make it any more clear that you are only allowed to return one.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2018, 06:40 AM   #34
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 12,529
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I'm not sure how they can make it any more clear that you are only allowed to return one.
A smart chip in the paper ballots that detects when ink is applied, and immediately sends a signal to the other ballot causing it to burst into flames.
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:21 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.