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Old Yesterday, 08:13 AM   #3441
Deadie
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Have you never heard of gas moving due to pressure gradient. Do you not know basic science?
The infamous Station bar fire in 2003 caused the unfortunate deaths of 100 people. The largest portion of victims were found where? Near the front entrance in the building where frightened people bunched up and couldn't push pass one another.

Matter has mass and this includes rocket exhaust as well as people.

I also wouldn't consider the thermodynamics of rocket science to be 'basic' and neither should you really if you think 1 atmosphere of pressure differential is the smoking gun to some grand conspiracy.
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Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM   #3442
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Do you not know basic science?
Hmmm, since you don't know basic science how could you evaluate this in others?

Pray tell?
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Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM   #3443
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Hmmm, since you don't know basic science how could you evaluate this in others?

Pray tell?
I'm guessing either Dunning & Kruger College, or the notion that everyone including Gingervytes is just in this thread for the lulz.
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Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM   #3444
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Since gas moves from high pressure to low pressure, I wonder where the gas would go if it were contained at very high pressure in a long cylinder and that cylinder was in a vacuum.

ETA: And you opened one end of the cylinder? I left that bit out sorry.
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
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Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM   #3445
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.
Stop shilling Jerry Sprocket's videos. He's an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

What if a very tiny hole were opened in the cylinder? Would the gas exhaust all at once? Or would it take some time? You still haven't answered me this one, Mr. Basic Science.
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Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM   #3446
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
You are ridiculous.

Your video is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that there is no air pressure inside a cardboard tube that is open in both ends? Would be fun if it wasn't so sad.

Hans
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Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM   #3447
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Oh, a gun video, my favorite.

Since the gun is much heavier than the bullet, the noticeable motion of the gun is not seen until after the bullet leaves the gun.

Too bad the author did not also show a gun using a blank to demonstrate the difference the exit mass makes for thrust/recoil.
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Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM   #3448
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Oh, but Inspector, there are still one or two things I don't understand.

If there's a pressure gradient in the tube doesn't that mean there's higher pressure up at the closed end?

And if there's higher pressure pushing on the inside of closed end than pushing on the outside, why wouldn't the tube move?
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Old Yesterday, 02:45 PM   #3449
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
...why wouldn't the tube move?
In Gingervytes' world, the gas molecules magically know to go only in the direction of the opening. But only if there's total vacuum outside.
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Old Yesterday, 02:56 PM   #3450
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
In Gingervytes' world, the gas molecules magically know to go only in the direction of the opening. But only if there's total vacuum outside.
But that can't be! If there's any pressure at all the vacuum will cause the container to blow up!
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Old Yesterday, 03:09 PM   #3451
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
But that can't be! If there's any pressure at all the vacuum will cause the container to blow up!
Only if the container is called a rocket. Then it's different. Gingervytes' model is just a loose collection of selected special cases held together with pressure gradient force.
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Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM   #3452
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
I have a great idea. By a gun, head out to the range, chew a big wad of bubble gum, and then jam it in the barrel.

I want to see that video.
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Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM   #3453
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Oh, a gun video, my favorite.

Since the gun is much heavier than the bullet, the noticeable motion of the gun is not seen until after the bullet leaves the gun.

Too bad the author did not also show a gun using a blank to demonstrate the difference the exit mass makes for thrust/recoil.
Also, the bigger the round, the bigger, and more immediate the recoil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmO_J-_N_8Q

Same thing from different angle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-6UNE09kW0

And one more because slow-mo .50 caliber footage is cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhXaER53CHQ



Bullets work in space too.
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Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM   #3454
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.
The illustration below is of an area of expanding gas and a steel plate to the left of it and in open space with no other objects nearby.

So:

1. Which point has the greater pressure, A or G?
2. Will particles between A and G move towards A or towards G?
3. Given that there is nothing but vacuum between the moving particles to the left of A and the steel plate, what will stop the particles from coming into contact with the steel?

Or don't you know basic science?
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File Type: jpg grenade_and_gas3.jpg (35.4 KB, 3 views)
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Last edited by Robin; Yesterday at 03:52 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:52 PM   #3455
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Bullets work in space too.
The nitrocellulose decomposes when heated by the primer, no oxidizer needed. I read in an encyclopedia that black powder does not work in a vacuum. I suppose that they meant a loose pile will not ignite in a vacuum if heated to the proper temperature. A black powder cartridge will of course work just as a smokeless cartridge will in a vacuum.

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I have a great idea. By a gun, head out to the range, chew a big wad of bubble gum, and then jam it in the barrel.
Stupid idea. The gum will just fly out of the barrel, no bubbles.

Quote:
I want to see that video.
I'll make it and post it online if you like.

Last edited by Ranb; Yesterday at 03:54 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM   #3456
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He still thinks vacuum exerts an attractive force on gas molecules. (And that that's the only reason gas diffuses into lower-pressure spaces. And that that mysterious force is called "pressure gradient force.")
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM   #3457
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Does it look like any of the videos meet the requirements for monetization?
Yep.
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Old Yesterday, 04:15 PM   #3458
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'll make it and post it online if you like.
I'm kind of fond of my hand.

But god bless redneck science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXMIdNgxmKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38VE9M7YH6g



Also, I would be remiss in my shill duties if I didn't post this video explaining flying to the ISS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFjw6Lc6J2g

The thing that always impresses me is how well astronauts can explain space travel to lay people.
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Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM   #3459
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Oh, but Inspector, there are still one or two things I don't understand.

If there's a pressure gradient in the tube doesn't that mean there's higher pressure up at the closed end?

And if there's higher pressure pushing on the inside of closed end than pushing on the outside, why wouldn't the tube move?
As I understand his theory, it is a special magic kind of pressure that only acts on gas, and never on solids.
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Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM   #3460
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Have you never heard of gas moving due to pressure gradient. Do you not know basic science?
I don't know about "basic" science, but I've taught physical chemistry and the kinetic theory of gases, so I know that. And no, I've never heard of "gas moving due to pressure gradient."

I do remember very clearly one of the most important lessons from my book, "Building Scientific Apparatus," which is a primary resource that one uses in (amazingly) building apparatus for doing scientific research. Which I've done.

And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Then again, what do the folks who wrote the book about building scientific apparatus know about "basic science," right?
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Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM   #3461
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Checking out molecular beams might help underscore that point. If there were such a force, it would cause the beam to spread out.
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Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM   #3462
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Checking out molecular beams might help underscore that point. If there were such a force, it would cause the beam to spread out.
Good point.

Yuan Lee must be a fraud, right?
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Old Yesterday, 05:21 PM   #3463
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I don't know about "basic" science, but I've taught physical chemistry and the kinetic theory of gases, so I know that. And no, I've never heard of "gas moving due to pressure gradient."

I do remember very clearly one of the most important lessons from my book, "Building Scientific Apparatus," which is a primary resource that one uses in (amazingly) building apparatus for doing scientific research. Which I've done.

And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Then again, what do the folks who wrote the book about building scientific apparatus know about "basic science," right?
That's great, but you understand that all of that is irrelevant before GV's "feelings". Those are far more important, right?
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Old Yesterday, 05:26 PM   #3464
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Hell... I got sucked in again.

Anyway, just extending the logic of Issac Sprocket's physics:
So, in vacuum it wouldn't move. In the air environment it would be pushed backwards (as we know). Would it be fair to assume underwater (denser medium to push away from) the thrust would be greater?
Experiment a bit - the deeper you go the better.
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Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM   #3465
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
In Gingervytes' world, the gas molecules magically know to go only in the direction of the opening. But only if there's total vacuum outside.
Slow down there. It is not every day that one happens upon an individual claiming that self aware, cognitive gas molecules are democratically voting on their movement,

Take some time to relish the insanity peppers. It's the only way to be sure.
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Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM   #3466
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Then what would the equal and opposite reaction be? There has to be one.
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Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM   #3467
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I don't know about "basic" science, but I've taught physical chemistry and the kinetic theory of gases, so I know that. And no, I've never heard of "gas moving due to pressure gradient."

I do remember very clearly one of the most important lessons from my book, "Building Scientific Apparatus," which is a primary resource that one uses in (amazingly) building apparatus for doing scientific research. Which I've done.

And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Then again, what do the folks who wrote the book about building scientific apparatus know about "basic science," right?
Gosh do you mean that you didn't write about a "pressure gradient force"? Although I didn't read you text book, I never heard about this nonsense until I read this thread.
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Old Yesterday, 08:49 PM   #3468
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Pressure gradient force appears to be a thing in meteorology and maybe oceanography. Notice that the distance units are kilometres. I doubt there are any rockets that need such large units for the pressure gradient.

However I think we can agree that if there is a pressure gradient in a fluid then, all else being equal, the fluid will move to a state of equal pressure and that until it has equalised a net force will be exerted on any object contained in the fluid in the direction of the lower pressure.

And of course such a force is not a fundamental force (as GV appears to think or rather be pretending to think) but the cumulative force from all the individual forces exerted in the fluid.
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM   #3469
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
...And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"
Hah!!! Tell that to all the people who didn't buy one of the latest Dysonô Brushless Vacuums!!


Laughable, man!!
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Old Yesterday, 10:47 PM   #3470
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OK, new question GV.

The following illustration is of a patch of hot, dense expanding gas (shown in red) and a cooler patch of gas (shown in grey).

It is all in open space with no other mass nearby, therefore the white represents vacuum.

Can you describe what you think will happen to the cooler gas as the other patch of gas expands?

Does it stay where it is, move to the right, or something else?
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