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Tags China issues , China-Hong Kong relations , Hong Kong incidents , Hong Kong issues , protest incidents

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Old 1st August 2019, 05:02 AM   #41
Childlike Empress
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Violent 'Color Revolution' In Hong Kong Fails Despite Strong NYT Support
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Old 1st August 2019, 12:28 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
These guys who are constantly at work instigating revolutions against authoritarian and illiberal governments that oppress their people, denying them the freedom they are clamoring for... they are some very, very bad people.

I hope they lose and the Chinese never are subject to the evils of freedom and liberal democracy.
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Old 1st August 2019, 12:57 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Russia never scared me but China is terrifying in the Pacific.
Russian culture closely matches European, and will default to libertarian values.

He hopes.

Russia's record says otherwise. Twice they had a chance to become a democracy, and twice they chose to return to authoritarianism.
ANd Putin scares the hell out of me, with his attempts to undermine democracy in the West. Time to take the rose collored glasses off.
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Old 1st August 2019, 01:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Russia's record says otherwise. Twice they had a chance to become a democracy, and twice they chose to return to authoritarianism.
ANd Putin scares the hell out of me, with his attempts to undermine democracy in the West. Time to take the rose collored glasses off.
But Russia fits well with american conservative values. Employers can force employees to pray, they outlawed talking about homosexuality and so on. It really is the Republican ideal, and it seems like they are finally realizing that.
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Old 6th August 2019, 07:24 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Russia's record says otherwise. Twice they had a chance to become a democracy, and twice they chose to return to authoritarianism.
ANd Putin scares the hell out of me, with his attempts to undermine democracy in the West. Time to take the rose collored glasses off.
Putin is certainly a threat, but the threat is constrained by a couple of factors which Putin can do little or nothing about. The biggest one is simply demographics: Russia is a country without a future. Its shrinking population guarantees that in the long run, no matter what Putin does, its influence will decline. The shorter term problem for Russia is that they simply don't have enough money. Their economy is crap, they depend too heavily on oil, and oil prices have declined. Putin simply can't fund all his ambitions. He can still cause a lot of problems, but he will never recapture the old Soviet prominence.

China has demographic problems as well, but their sheer size means that even with a declining population they will still be a power to reckon with. And they've got economic muscle that Russia can only dream of, although they've got some real economic vulnerabilities as well.
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Old 6th August 2019, 03:40 PM   #46
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Anyone interested in analysing this video and figuring.
The attackers said she faked it, but the girl says not and she had a bad leg so struggled to get up.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...our/ar-AAFkNow
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Old 6th August 2019, 04:25 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Russia's record says otherwise. Twice they had a chance to become a democracy, and twice they chose to return to authoritarianism.

ANd Putin scares the hell out of me, with his attempts to undermine democracy in the West. Time to take the rose collored glasses off.
The contemporary Russians didn't choose authoritarianism. It was forced on them. Putin was able to nudge things just enough to make sure he won and that he can't be challenged.
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Old 7th August 2019, 01:54 AM   #48
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Looks like China is signalling quite clearly "Tiananmin Square II" the sequal is about to happen.
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Old 8th August 2019, 01:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Looks like China is signalling quite clearly "Tiananmin Square II" the sequal is about to happen.
And you will have a number of people in the West who will justify it, of course.
IMHO it way past time for the Mandate Of Heaven to be withdrawn from the current regime.
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Old 8th August 2019, 07:44 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And you will have a number of people in the West who will justify it, of course.
IMHO it way past time for the Mandate Of Heaven to be withdrawn from the current regime.
China has probably learnt from the fall of the USSR (and perhaps Egypt & Libya compared to Syria)... if an authoritarian government wants to hang on to power, donít be weak - be ruthless.

I feel desperately sorry for the people of Hong Kong... but I donít know how much anyone can/will do to help them.
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Old 9th August 2019, 07:45 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And you will have a number of people in the West who will justify it, of course.
IMHO it way past time for the Mandate Of Heaven to be withdrawn from the current regime.
Sure, but how do you do it? Do we launch a nuclear war? That doesn't seem like it's worth it.

The best way to weaken the Chinese communist party short of a shooting war is to engage in a trade war. Their economy is very vulnerable to that.
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:47 PM   #52
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The whole world is very vulnerable to a trade war. Australia will be one of the first losers.
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Old 10th August 2019, 01:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
China has probably learnt from the fall of the USSR (and perhaps Egypt & Libya compared to Syria)... if an authoritarian government wants to hang on to power, donít be weak - be ruthless.

I feel desperately sorry for the people of Hong Kong... but I donít know how much anyone can/will do to help them.
Not much, sadly.
Boycotttng Chinese goods is a non starter,so much stuff is imported from CHina.
And the Chinese Gvernment does not care much about its image.
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Old 10th August 2019, 01:02 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The whole world is very vulnerable to a trade war. Australia will be one of the first losers.
Trade war has already started,Pal.
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Old 10th August 2019, 03:17 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Russia never scared me but China is terrifying in the Pacific.
Russian culture closely matches European, and will default to libertarian values.

He hopes.
While modern Russia certainly tries to loosely imitate Europe, China doesn't even pretend to try. Very non politically correct and blunt with their iron fist.
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Old 12th August 2019, 04:29 PM   #56
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A lot of posts in other forums pretty much echoing the Beijing propaganda line. Looks as if the Chinese are taking a page from Putin's internet tactics and has hired a bunch of shills.
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Old 13th August 2019, 02:32 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A lot of posts in other forums pretty much echoing the Beijing propaganda line. Looks as if the Chinese are taking a page from Putin's internet tactics and has hired a bunch of shills.
The 50 cent army has been around for a while now, although I'm told they're now down to 30 cents
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Old 13th August 2019, 12:51 PM   #58
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Quote:
The unprecedented cancellation of all flights on Monday coincided with the latest in an increasingly threatening series of statements by Beijing. A Chinese official said “terrorism” was emerging in the city, while in Hong Kong authorities demonstrated water cannon for use in crowd control.

Late on Monday, two Chinese state media outlets ran videos showing armoured personnel carriers purportedly driving to Shenzhen, which borders Hong Kong.

On Tuesday, the territory’s chief executive, Carrie Lam, said violence was pushing Hong Kong “down a path of no return”. .

Lam, who at one point appeared to be near tears, appealed for calm but again refused any concessions to protesters.

“Take a minute to think, look at our city, our home, do you all really want to see it pushed into an abyss?” she asked.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rious-concerns

The way things are going it's only a matter of time before the Chinese government orders the military to seize control of Hong Kong. As i said before, the Communist party was never ever going to allow any genuinely democratic form of government in Hong Kong and it has in fact systematically chipping away at the institutional and political autonomy Hong Kong notionally should enjoy.

The fact that Carrie Lam refuses to respond to the question of whether she has the autonomy to dismiss the extradition bill is illustrative of not just the Chinese governments control, but also how they refuse to give any kind of concessions or engage in any dialogue, instead they only aggravate the situation by provoking the pro-democracy activists with their stubborn behavior, such as by not explicitly withdrawing the extradition bill.
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Old 13th August 2019, 02:47 PM   #59
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Yeah; clear that a promise from the Chinese Government is pretty much worthless.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 13th August 2019, 02:48 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
The 50 cent army has been around for a while now, although I'm told they're now down to 30 cents
And not worth that much, really. Pretty inept,make little effort to hide where they are coming from. The Russian shills are also pretty bad at this, but the Chinese shills are even worse.
The use of the term "New China" is sort of a giveaway.
What is sad is that some people who should really know better are supporting China simply because Trump does not like them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend routine is really stupid.
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Old 13th August 2019, 03:47 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
...
And the Chinese Gvernment does not care much about its image.
If anything they want to be feared, not loved or respected.
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Old 13th August 2019, 05:58 PM   #62
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The idea of protesting at the airport is to prevent a Tiananmin-like massacre. They are counting on China not shooting with tourists and other travelers there. Doesn't mean they won't start rounding protestors up though.


Trump won't do anything, but to be fair, it's unlikely any other POTUS would have either.
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Old 13th August 2019, 07:50 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The idea of protesting at the airport is to prevent a Tiananmin-like massacre. They are counting on China not shooting with tourists and other travelers there. Doesn't mean they won't start rounding protestors up though.


Trump won't do anything, but to be fair, it's unlikely any other POTUS would have either.
What exactly could POTUS do? Start a trade war? Declare literal war?
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What exactly could POTUS do? Start a trade war? Declare literal war?
Declare victory when China stands pat. Hong Kong isn't Beijing, that's the entire point being made.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:15 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Frank Newgent View Post
Declare victory when China stands pat. Hong Kong isn't Beijing, that's the entire point being made.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Could you spell out your argument?
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:21 PM   #66
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Self explanatory. Parts of Hong Kong are among the most densely populated places on earth. Probably ungovernable should Beijing make a move.

And Trump is such a goddamned moron he'll attempt to take credit for this.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Frank Newgent View Post
Self explanatory. Parts of Hong Kong are among the most densely populated places on earth. Probably ungovernable should Beijing make a move.



And Trump is such a goddamned moron he'll attempt to take credit for this.
Leaving Trump out of this, what's your reasoning on the "ungovernable" bit?
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:28 PM   #68
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Hong Kong educated population would resist being invaded. Densely populated=hard to control.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:32 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Frank Newgent View Post
Hong Kong educated population would resist being invaded. Densely populated=hard to control.
It's an island. Blockade it for a month, and it's yours.
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Old 13th August 2019, 08:34 PM   #70
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China might be smarter than that. Guess we'll see.
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:11 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What exactly could POTUS do? Start a trade war? Declare literal war?
Why are you asking me?
Quote:
to be fair, it's unlikely any other POTUS would have either
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Old 13th August 2019, 09:54 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's an island. Blockade it for a month, and it's yours.
Nitpick: There is an island. Officially it's called Victoria Island, but many refer to it as Hong Kong Island or the Hong Kong side (of the harbor). But the majority of the city and Hong Kong S.A.R. is actually on the mainland.

China ain't going to invade or blockade Hong Kong. I have no idea what the outcome of this misadventure is going to be, but a blockade or cross-border invasion ain't on the books. The PLA has a garrison in HK and troops move in and out freely. They are "letting" the HK Police handle it. "Letting" because they can't be seen to be bringing down the hobnail boot. What they're actually doing is telling the HK Police to fix it. With no experience in politics, the HK Police are at a loss as to what to do.

With the economic shoe dropping, the sentiments of the HK public are going to turn more against the protesters. The HK$ is tied to an exchange rate against the USD but floats against other Asian currencies and is hurting. The losses for the airport protests are only (sic) about 100 million usd. But if they continue to disrupt the airport (there are still protest groups allowed at two entrance/exitways) and Shenzhen International picks up much trade at HK International's expense, look for business leaders to start clamoring for Beijing to do something about it. HK is all about the economy. The port and airport are a huge part of this. Tourism is another. Both areas are suffering.
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Old 13th August 2019, 10:20 PM   #73
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Thank you for that information, foolme.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:56 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Nitpick: <bla bla bla>
Nitpick: I can't hear you over the sound of how evil I am.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:19 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Associated note, Chris patten challenges Jon snow for the knew nothing crown:

ďSometimes it is difficult to avoid the rather gloomy thought that we are seeing the emergence of a superpower that does not believe in individual human rights. ď - from his guardian opinion piece
Wow, where has this guy been these last 75 years?

Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Say what you will about foreign organ-stealing murdering despots but at least they arenít our domestic opposition!
Better a Russian than a Democrat, amirite?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The shorter term problem for Russia is that they simply don't have enough money.
Well, that's kind of Putin's and his friends' fault in part.
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Old 14th August 2019, 02:38 PM   #76
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Wonder how the Noble House is doing in all of this?
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Old 14th August 2019, 04:57 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Nitpick: I can't hear you over the sound of how evil I am.
Ha ha! That never gets old!
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:29 AM   #78
Giz
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Wonder how the Noble House is doing in all of this?
Those gai-Jin have been through the whirlwind
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:32 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post

Better a Russian than a Democrat, amirite?

.
Fine people on both sides
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Old 15th August 2019, 08:27 AM   #80
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Violent Protests In Hong Kong Reach Their Last Stage
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