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Tags donald trump , Trump supporters

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Old 1st August 2019, 12:46 PM   #241
Joe Random
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Thread has inspired me. Need to find one of these things now : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGwg...youtu.be&t=669
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Old 1st August 2019, 04:58 PM   #242
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"Evil" is merely being used as a superlative. You gotcher "bad", then you gotcher "really bad", and you could morph to "really horribly bad", but it would get tiresome describing Trump supporters as "really horribly awfully completely utterly bad like slipping peanuts into school lunch bad", so I'm going with "evil" as "most bad".

Would you folks prefer "despicable"? "Hateful?"

It's so much easier to argue the meaning of the words (where's Belz when you need him?) rather than address the bunch of misanthropic mean-spirited heartless creeps you're siding with in the political dialogue.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 1st August 2019, 05:08 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
"Evil" is merely being used as a superlative. You gotcher "bad", then you gotcher "really bad", and you could morph to "really horribly bad", but it would get tiresome describing Trump supporters as "really horribly awfully completely utterly bad like slipping peanuts into school lunch bad", so I'm going with "evil" as "most bad".

Would you folks prefer "despicable"? "Hateful?"

It's so much easier to argue the meaning of the words (where's Belz when you need him?) rather than address the bunch of misanthropic mean-spirited heartless creeps you're siding with in the political dialogue.
Have you considered “big meanies” or “doody heads” ?

Coming up with the right name to call people is very important, you know?
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Old 1st August 2019, 05:10 PM   #244
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I'm kind of turning onto the term "magascum". It calls out the obscenity and irony that their kind could ever be of enough value to bring America to greatness. It's also dehumanizing but it takes away their humanity for their choice to betray their country. I hope it catches on. It would be a great thing for the nation if people loyal to this country saw Trump supporters as something less than human.
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Old 1st August 2019, 05:38 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Have you considered “big meanies” or “doody heads” ?

Coming up with the right name to call people is very important, you know?
It doesn't really matter. The Quislings will continue to run interference for them and the Chamberlains will continue to explain why we have to understand them and have a dialogue, amirite?
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 1st August 2019, 05:52 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
"Evil" is merely being used as a superlative. You gotcher "bad", then you gotcher "really bad", and you could morph to "really horribly bad", but it would get tiresome describing Trump supporters as "really horribly awfully completely utterly bad like slipping peanuts into school lunch bad", so I'm going with "evil" as "most bad".

Would you folks prefer "despicable"? "Hateful?"

It's so much easier to argue the meaning of the words (where's Belz when you need him?) rather than address the bunch of misanthropic mean-spirited heartless creeps you're siding with in the political dialogue.
Have you considered "deplorable"?

There's also "nasty", if you favor giving Trumpistas a taste of their own medicine.
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Old 1st August 2019, 05:53 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
It doesn't really matter. The Quislings will continue to run interference for them and the Chamberlains will continue to explain why we have to understand them and have a dialogue, amirite?
I don't know if you're 'rite', but I am curious. Are you saying the time for understanding and dialogue is over?
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Old 1st August 2019, 06:26 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't know if you're 'rite', but I am curious. Are you saying the time for understanding and dialogue is over?
Yes. Yes, I am. WITH TRUMP SUPPORTERS. Supporter does not equal voter. There will be useful idiots who will vote for him for various reasons we've all discussed (with disgust). Pro-Lifers, Fundies Praying for him to die so Bible-Thumping Pence is Promoted, People Who Vote Republican Regardless of the Scumbag Nominated By the Party, Fiscal Conservatives Fans of Huge Deficits, Greedy Bastards.... etc...

I'm talking about the Trumpistas, where the bigotry is not a bug, but a feature. People whose entire political involvement is "I hate people not like me". People who think that Go Back to Africa and Love It or Leave It are propositions that can be intelligently discussed.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 1st August 2019, 09:45 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yes. Yes, I am. WITH TRUMP SUPPORTERS. Supporter does not equal voter. There will be useful idiots who will vote for him for various reasons we've all discussed (with disgust). Pro-Lifers, Fundies Praying for him to die so Bible-Thumping Pence is Promoted, People Who Vote Republican Regardless of the Scumbag Nominated By the Party, Fiscal Conservatives Fans of Huge Deficits, Greedy Bastards.... etc...

I'm talking about the Trumpistas, where the bigotry is not a bug, but a feature. People whose entire political involvement is "I hate people not like me". People who think that Go Back to Africa and Love It or Leave It are propositions that can be intelligently discussed.
Instead of "intelligently discussed," it's more accurate to say "legitimately discussed" (from their warped perspective.) Intelligence would hardly factor into it.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 12:28 AM   #250
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My evangelical aunt came by and talked about how she liked the supermarket in her new neighborhood. She said she didn't like the old one because of ... the clientele. I'm pretty sure there was another word at the tip of her tongue; Hispanics or blacks ... she talked about parents turning their kids loose in the grocery store which sounds like the things people say about Latino parenting.

The thing is, though I can fill in the blank of what she might have meant, she didn't blame minority groups. So I don't call her evil. She's an 82-year-old former farm worker of the Okie persuasion, probably subject to some stereotyping herself back in the day and in turn stereotyping the class beneath her.

But she didn't say that stuff. So I give her the benefit of the doubt. I think she's gullible and misinformed - she believes that Planned Parenthood sells baby parts, that illegal immigrants get all kind of government benefits and that Christians are an especially persecuted group. It's no use, trying to correct her on facts. But something I read talked about talking to people you disagree with and trying to frame issues in a way that appeals to conservative values. That could be universal health care or help with college or job training. I just want to get around this arguing past each other and the mutual demonizing that goes on. I don't think it does any good and probably hurts. I'm inclined to think Dems need some of the 40 percent Trump stalwarts so many people are writing off. Perhaps by floating the idea of Pence as a better candidate. We won't know if we don't listen, if we assume from the get-go that damn near a plurality of voters are evil and beyond any hope of appealing to their human values.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 06:50 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I think she's gullible and misinformed - she believes that Planned Parenthood sells baby parts
They do.

Quote:
that illegal immigrants get all kind of government benefits
They do.

Quote:
and that Christians are an especially persecuted group.
In many places in the developing world, they are.

Quote:
It's no use, trying to correct her on facts.
Is it any use trying to correct you on the facts?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 06:59 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Have you considered “big meanies” or “doody heads” ?

Coming up with the right name to call people is very important, you know?
No ****, like Sleepy Joe, and Crooked Hillary, and Low Energy Jeb, and Little Marco, etc.

Trust me, if it's one thing Trump and his followers have shown the world, it's that name calling is not only acceptable. It's a key part of the game. The guy can't order his Micky D's without coming up with a name for the person at the window.

"I'll take a Diet Coke, Server Sally!"
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Old 2nd August 2019, 07:52 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I think she's gullible and misinformed - she believes that Planned Parenthood sells baby parts
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
They do.
They do not.

Clients will occasionally donate fetal tissue for various purposes, but it is illegal to buy or sell. PP will charge fees for shipping and handling the tissue, but not for the tissue itself.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:02 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
They do not.

Clients will occasionally donate fetal tissue for various purposes, but it is illegal to buy or sell. PP will charge fees for shipping and handling the tissue, but not for the tissue itself.
Bwahahahaha!

Pay money to PP, and get baby parts. But that doesn't count as PP selling baby parts. Oh no, we have to maintain the fiction that it's just "shipping and handling fees". Kind of like those TV ads: buy now, and get a second gadget for free! Just pay $19.95 for shipping and handling.

I get why the fiction is maintained for legal purposes, but who exactly do you think you're fooling?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:06 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Bwahahahaha!

Pay money to PP, and get baby parts. But that doesn't count as PP selling baby parts. Oh no, we have to maintain the fiction that it's just "shipping and handling fees". Kind of like those TV ads: buy now, and get a second gadget for free! Just pay $19.95 for shipping and handling.

I get why the fiction is maintained for legal purposes, but who exactly do you think you're fooling?
Disingenuous at best.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:06 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Bwahahahaha!

Pay money to PP, and get baby parts. But that doesn't count as PP selling baby parts. Oh no, we have to maintain the fiction that it's just "shipping and handling fees". Kind of like those TV ads: buy now, and get a second gadget for free! Just pay $19.95 for shipping and handling.

I get why the fiction is maintained for legal purposes, but who exactly do you think you're fooling?
Maybe the "client donates" part confused you?

Easy enough to prove. Why don't you go to your nearest PP and ask to purchase fetal tissue? If you can exchange money for anonymous fetal tissue, I will concede the point. Otherwise, you're just regurgitating conservative propaganda.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:18 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Maybe the "client donates" part confused you?
The client donating means that PP doesn't buy baby parts. Does the difference between buying baby parts and selling baby parts confuse you?

Quote:
Easy enough to prove. Why don't you go to your nearest PP and ask to purchase fetal tissue? If you can exchange money for anonymous fetal tissue, I will concede the point. Otherwise, you're just regurgitating conservative propaganda.
I can't go down to Boeing and buy an F-15. Does that mean Boeing doesn't sell F-15's? Obviously not. That's a stupid test.

All you've got to go on is this legal fiction that you're only paying for shipping and handling. That's the only defense you have, which is itself just regurgitated liberal propaganda. You can't actually claim that nobody has paid money to PP and gotten baby parts in return, because that has happened. Hell, PP themselves never contested that, they only claimed that they didn't make a profit on the sale.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:33 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Hell, PP themselves never contested that, they only claimed that they didn't make a profit on the sale.
...because they are only charging for the shipping and handling of donated fetal tissue.

Do you have any evidence that this is not the case?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:39 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
...because they are only charging for the shipping and handling of donated fetal tissue.

Do you have any evidence that this is not the case?
Which, again, would mean that they aren't making a profit on the sale, which is what's legally prohibited. It doesn't actually mean that they aren't selling baby parts. They are. People give them money, and they get a baby pat in return. That's a sale. Do you have any evidence that this is not the case? Of course you don't, because even PP admit that this happened.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:42 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Which, again, would mean that they aren't making a profit on the sale, which is what's legally prohibited. It doesn't actually mean that they aren't selling baby parts. They are. People give them money, and they get a baby pat in return. That's a sale. Do you have any evidence that this is not the case? Of course you don't, because even PP admit that this happened.
Ok, so what is the cost of the baby parts? You should at least have evidence of that if it's such a common practice.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:45 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Which, again, would mean that they aren't making a profit on the sale, which is what's legally prohibited. It doesn't actually mean that they aren't selling baby parts. They are. People give them money, and they get a baby pat in return. That's a sale. Do you have any evidence that this is not the case? Of course you don't, because even PP admit that this happened.
This is totally disingenuous. The intent is to imply that they are profiting from the practice and to stir up outrage over that. You can be pedantic about "selling" but you didn't explain why we ought to be outraged about what they are actually doing.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:48 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Ok, so what is the cost of the baby parts? You should at least have evidence of that if it's such a common practice.
I never made any claim about how common it was, only that it happened. And again, this is something PP freely admits happened. There were three related claims that PP disputed (that they made a profit, that they didn't get consent, and that they altered abortion procedure to get the parts), but that sales occurred is not something they have denied. So I'm not sure why you're trying to deny it on their behalf.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:51 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
This is totally disingenuous. The intent is to imply that they are profiting from the practice and to stir up outrage over that. You can be pedantic about "selling" but you didn't explain why we ought to be outraged about what they are actually doing.
I never claimed anyone should be enraged about anything, so why should I explain that? Minoosh didn't say his allegedly ignorant grandma was enraged about PP selling baby parts, or that she thought they made a profit off selling baby parts. Minoosh said that she thought they sold baby parts. And they do. Them's the facts. If you're uncomfortable with those facts, well, that's for you to figure out how to deal with. But not by denying them.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:52 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I never made any claim about how common it was, only that it happened. And again, this is something PP freely admits happened. There were three related claims that PP disputed (that they made a profit, that they didn't get consent, and that they altered abortion procedure to get the parts), but that sales occurred is not something they have denied. So I'm not sure why you're trying to deny it on their behalf.
Because "sales" implies there is a profit, rather than saying "the person receiving the tissue had to pay the cost of getting that tissue." You're poisoning the well and you know it. The thinness of this veil is pretty sad.

You're just trying to use inflammatory language, and we all know why.

ETA: Can you provide a link to a PP representative where they say, "Yes, we sell baby parts"? As that's what you've claimed here.
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Last edited by plague311; 2nd August 2019 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:55 AM   #265
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And another one goes CT.

Then doubles down and plays at sophistry.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 2nd August 2019, 08:55 AM   #266
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What an interesting digression. Direct evidence that you absolutely cannot give any GOP conspiracy theory the benefit of the dumb, because no matter how ridiculous the idea is, nor how manufactured the evidence is, someone smart enough to know better will eventually pick up the thread and see how much farther they can push it.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:06 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I never claimed anyone should be enraged about anything, so why should I explain that? Minoosh didn't say his allegedly ignorant grandma was enraged about PP selling baby parts, or that she thought they made a profit off selling baby parts. Minoosh said that she thought they sold baby parts. And they do. Them's the facts. If you're uncomfortable with those facts, well, that's for you to figure out how to deal with. But not by denying them.
But them's not all the facts, are they. You seem to be uncomfortable with the point Minoosh was actually making and decided to deal with it with pedantry.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:07 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Ok, so what is the cost of the baby parts? You should at least have evidence of that if it's such a common practice.
I never made any claim about how common it was, only that it happened. And again, this is something PP freely admits happened. There were three related claims that PP disputed (that they made a profit, that they didn't get consent, and that they altered abortion procedure to get the parts), but that sales occurred is not something they have denied. So I'm not sure why you're trying to deny it on their behalf.
No, no. You missed plagu311's first question. If they are selling fetal tissue, what is the cost of the fetal tissue?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:12 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's a sale. Do you have any evidence that this is not the case? Of course you don't, because even PP admit that this happened.
Okay, I have not found where PP admitted to "selling baby parts". What's your source on that?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:24 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Quote:
Quote:
that illegal immigrants get all kind of government benefits
They do.
Such as? I thought the 90s "welfare reform" made sure we don't do that. There might be a few that we still afford to all human beings within our borders, but since you're such a stickler for facts, please name a few.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:27 AM   #271
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
But them's not all the facts, are they.
I never claimed they were all the facts (an objection you don't seem to have with Minoosh's original post, strangely enough). But they are still facts.

Quote:
You seem to be uncomfortable with the point Minoosh was actually making and decided to deal with it with pedantry.
Minoosh listed several facts which he apparently thought were false in order to make his point. They were all true. Pointing that out isn't pedantry. If you or Minoosh think you can still make that point without relying on those facts, feel free to do so, but as framed that argument fails, badly.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:33 AM   #272
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
People give them money, and they get a baby pat in return. That's a sale. Do you have any evidence that this is not the case?
Yes:
Originally Posted by House Committee on Oversight and Reform
Facts:
Planned Parenthood receives reasonable reimbursement for its tissue donation services, as expressly permitted by law.

Congress passed the NIH Revitalization Act in 1993 with overwhelming bipartisan support.[7]

This law prohibits the receipt of any “valuable consideration” for fetal tissue while expressly permitting “reasonable payments” for costs, including “transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.”[8]
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:34 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Such as?
Illegal immigrants can't get SNAP, SSI, or ACA subsidies, so I suppose the *all* included in all kinds of government benefits negates the argument.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:37 AM   #274
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Such as? I thought the 90s "welfare reform" made sure we don't do that.
Why would you think that? The 1996 PRWORA which you refer to covered most (but not all) federal government benefits to immigrants, but it did nothing about state or local government benefits.

Quote:
There might be a few that we still afford to all human beings within our borders, but since you're such a stickler for facts, please name a few.
Here you go:
http://www.ncsl.org/research/immigra...mmigrants.aspx

And to make it clear: I'm not trying to argue here whether or not we should provide such government benefits to illegal immigrants. My point is simply that we do.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:38 AM   #275
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes:
That actually agrees with what I said. PP receives money in exchange for baby parts. That's a sale. Your source simply claims that the money is such that PP isn't making a profit, but I never claimed they made a profit. And Minoosh never said that his grandma believed they made a profit.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:45 AM   #276
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wow, simply wow.

Tell me Zig - if a private Clinic did exactly the same thing, would you find that as worth of condemnation?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:50 AM   #277
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
wow, simply wow.

Tell me Zig - if a private Clinic did exactly the same thing, would you find that as worth of condemnation?
Once again, I didn't condemn anything. Seriously, read through this whole exchange. Not once in this thread will you find me having condemned a single thing that PP has done. All I have done is point out what they did, I attached no moral judgment to it. You have only imagined that.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:53 AM   #278
plague311
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That actually agrees with what I said. PP receives money in exchange for baby parts. That's a sale. Your source simply claims that the money is such that PP isn't making a profit, but I never claimed they made a profit. And Minoosh never said that his grandma believed they made a profit.
No, it doesn't. Your disingenuous ******** not withstanding.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:55 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No, it doesn't. Your disingenuous ******** not withstanding.
Don't try to lecture me about disingenuousness. I'm not the one claiming that money in exchange for an item isn't a sale.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 09:57 AM   #280
plague311
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Don't try to lecture me about disingenuousness. I'm not the one claiming that money in exchange for an item isn't a sale.
You're disingenuous because reimbursement =! sale and you ******* know it. A sale implies there is a profit. Like I said, disingenuous.

ETA: If you buy me gas, and I reimburse you for it. You didn't sell me gas. The original item was donated, so there was no sale there either. Get over it. You're wrong.
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