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Old 14th August 2019, 08:43 AM   #281
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
We shouldn't be able to ask people if they do drugs on a federal form to acquire a firearm? I see this as the system working as intended. I see all of the cases where people don't get arrested or charged for lying on a federal form as the system not working as intended.
Then change the scenario. Suppose the purchaser who supplied firearms to the shooter was sober as a bird, and honestly reflected that fact in the form. In this case, he would be facing no charges whatsoever.

In your opinion, is that the way the system ought to work?
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:43 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The people vote in the representatives...
...is what they tell elementary school students. The reality is more complicated and much less democratic.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:44 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,
Still BS. You’re deluded if you think this is a reflection of our polical reality.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:45 AM   #284
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The point of democracy is not to ensure that government makes the right decisions. It's to ensure that the governed have nobody to blame but themselves when the government makes the wrong decisions. Of course nothing is perfect, and even a democratic government is not entirely accountable to its citizens.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:47 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yet, we can not ignore that it is "us" that is "the state".
We can ignore it because it is a lie.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:49 AM   #286
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Boy this thread sure does take some turns.
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:54 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Careful reading will lead you to my posts that lament the fact that these cases are not prosecuted more vigorously. Please don't imply otherwise.
And of course even misdemeanor drug offences should forever bar people from owning guns unlike violent crimes.

The whole thing is so stupid and pointless, and does a wonderful way to distract from serious issues.

Seriously has anyone else ever been charged for saying no to this question?
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Old 14th August 2019, 08:58 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
What we do as a state is neither simple or just because we do it. Yet, we can not ignore that it is "us" that is "the state".
But yet it defines justice as we see in this case. The hatred of mexicans is good because it gives people something to charge this guy with. I am waiting for what they find to charge his polyamorous ex-girlfriend with next. After all anyone with a connection to him must be evil and should be behind bars.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:06 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Then change the scenario. Suppose the purchaser who supplied firearms to the shooter was sober as a bird, and honestly reflected that fact in the form. In this case, he would be facing no charges whatsoever.

In your opinion, is that the way the system ought to work?
Two technicalities: First, the purchaser didn't provide firearms, they provided accessories (clips and the body armor). Second, the way the system ought to work and the way the system is designed to work are two separate things to me.

Neither had criminal convictions, and so either one could have bought the items. If everything they had done was fit to the letter of the law, then I wouldn't have much to bitch about EXCEPT the actual laws themselves. Which I have openly bitched about in several other threads.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:21 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Two technicalities: First, the purchaser didn't provide firearms, they provided accessories (clips and the body armor). Second, the way the system ought to work and the way the system is designed to work are two separate things to me.

Neither had criminal convictions, and so either one could have bought the items. If everything they had done was fit to the letter of the law, then I wouldn't have much to bitch about EXCEPT the actual laws themselves. Which I have openly bitched about in several other threads.
Hey at least he was able to be charged on a gotya question instead of if he had just bought the guns second hand and then been totally obeying the law and have no crimes at all related to firearms.

But this is a good way to ban any group you want from buying firearms by asking the right questions you can nail them latter for buying the guns even though they were allowed to because they didn't answer a question right that would have prevented them from owning guns they were legally allowed to own.

Really the point is that anyone who ever uses drugs is scum and should have all kinds of fun gotcha problems forever.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:28 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The point of democracy is not to ensure that government makes the right decisions. It's to ensure that the governed have nobody to blame but themselves when the government makes the wrong decisions.Of course nothing is perfect, and even a democratic government is not entirely accountable to its citizens.
Agreed.

And better put than my glib responses. As usual.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:31 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey at least he was able to be charged on a gotya question instead of if he had just bought the guns second hand and then been totally obeying the law and have no crimes at all related to firearms.

But this is a good way to ban any group you want from buying firearms by asking the right questions you can nail them latter for buying the guns even though they were allowed to because they didn't answer a question right that would have prevented them from owning guns they were legally allowed to own.

Really the point is that anyone who ever uses drugs is scum and should have all kinds of fun gotcha problems forever.
Do you believe half the ******** you post? I haven't even seen anyone make anything close to the strawmen you seem to be erecting.

ETA: But yeah, I do want people that do drugs banned from buying firearms. Why you don't is beyond me, but then again, most of what you say is beyond me.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:35 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It is for the Xargax Collective on Rigel VI. But the newly elected Hierophant promises to devolve power from the Lavender Council to the regional unities.
Rigel VI is a Federation planet. What are you blabbering about?
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:37 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Do you believe half the ******** you post?
One thing is certain: the people he responds to don't believe half the ******** he posts.
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:45 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
One thing is certain: the people he responds to don't believe half the ******** he posts.
I don't even know if he's actually responding to the people he's quoting. He seems to say that every pot head blah, blah, blah, and is basically accusing me of being anti-them. Which, if that's the case, I have some really terrible news....
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Old 14th August 2019, 09:47 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Do you believe half the ******** you post? I haven't even seen anyone make anything close to the strawmen you seem to be erecting.

ETA: But yeah, I do want people that do drugs banned from buying firearms. Why you don't is beyond me, but then again, most of what you say is beyond me.
Why buying? Why not make it a crime to own a gun and do drugs, why is it the act of buying that is so important? Smoke pot and own a gun, thats a felony. Simple and direct. Of course not at all a law. Seriously is there any law that you can commit a misdemeanor and because you own a gun automatically get charged with a felony? And clearly pot and mushrooms are more serious assaulting someone while you own firearms.

BUt that isn't what you are arguing for, it is for gotcha questions.
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Old 14th August 2019, 12:09 PM   #297
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Evidence the news will complain about anything:

Quote:
The Dayton mass shooter was “a funny, articulate and intelligent man with striking blue eyes and a kind smile” — or so his family says in an obituary that conveniently fails to mention he was gunned down by cops after slaughtering nine people.
Complaints that the family didn't mention the guy gunning down people. Like that's something you put in an obituary.

"Today, plague311 passed away. He was dull, but had a good sense of humor. One time, he stole a pack of gum like the thieving bastard he was. He will be remembered by his family..."
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Old 14th August 2019, 12:22 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Except as people have debated them as an antidepressant, but if course any antidepressant use should bar people from gun ownership permanently as well I guess.
You do know you take strawmen to a whole new level, right?

It's my understanding that 'shrooms as an antidepressant are used more in a one-off fashion, not daily doses. But that has nothing to do with the topic. Trip and puff away, lie to your heart's content, you will probably get away with it. But if it's later discovered you at least potentially enabled a mass murderer, don't be surprised when the feds look for something to charge you with. As they should, IMO. As a warning to others at the least.
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Old 14th August 2019, 01:17 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Evidence the news will complain about anything:



Complaints that the family didn't mention the guy gunning down people. Like that's something you put in an obituary.

"Today, plague311 passed away. He was dull, but had a good sense of humor. One time, he stole a pack of gum like the thieving bastard he was. He will be remembered by his family..."
Yeah, I've never seen an honest obit.
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Old 14th August 2019, 01:35 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yeah, I've never seen an honest obit.
My wife watches Discovery ID all of the time, or as I call it the murder-death channel. She and I have been married for going on 8 years, and out of all of the times I've watched that channel I've never heard of a bad victim yet. They were always nice, friendly, quiet, kept to themselves, a pleasure to be around, an absolute angel.

Not once in 8 years has a person said, "That person? Oh, she was a ****. Hated her! Glad she's gone!"
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Last edited by plague311; 14th August 2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 14th August 2019, 02:14 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
My wife watches Discovery ID all of the time, or as I call it the murder-death channel. She and I have been married for going on 8 years, and out of all of the times I've watched that channel I've never heard of an bad victim yet. They were always nice, friendly, quiet, kept to themselves, a pleasure to be around, an absolute angel.

Not once in 8 years has a person said, "That person? Oh, she was a ****. Hated her! Glad she's gone!"
Same with funerals. I've never been to one for anyone but saints.
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Old 14th August 2019, 05:40 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/us/da...ges/index.html

Quote:
Kollie is being held in Montgomery County Jail, charged with possession of a firearm by someone who illegally uses or is addicted to a controlled substance, and making false statements with respect to information required by the federal firearms code.
He will have a detention hearing Wednesday to determine bail, Glassman said. He faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted on both counts, the prosecutor said.

Wow, this is one stupid man.

As far as I know it is relatively rare that a person is arrested for lying on the federal firearms form. There are claims that thousands of NICS denials each year keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I rarely ever hear about those people getting arrested for lying on the 4473 form.

Ranb
But ... why are they letting someone who illegally uses or is addicted to a controlled substance charge Kollie for a crime? Can't the Police do that?


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Old 15th August 2019, 01:14 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Same with funerals. I've never been to one for anyone but saints.
And never a congratulations to the widow(er) on a successful marriage.
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:09 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
My wife watches Discovery ID all of the time, or as I call it the murder-death channel. She and I have been married for going on 8 years, and out of all of the times I've watched that channel I've never heard of a bad victim yet. They were always nice, friendly, quiet, kept to themselves, a pleasure to be around, an absolute angel.

Not once in 8 years has a person said, "That person? Oh, she was a ****. Hated her! Glad she's gone!"
Wait until Trump dies.
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:12 PM   #305
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Ok, since people seem to have given up on democracy, what is the next step?
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:14 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Still BS. You’re deluded if you think this is a reflection of our polical reality.
It's a ideal to work toward.
What kind of political system do you favor, since you seem to have given up on democracy.
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:17 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
My wife watches Discovery ID all of the time, or as I call it the murder-death channel. She and I have been married for going on 8 years, and out of all of the times I've watched that channel I've never heard of a bad victim yet. They were always nice, friendly, quiet, kept to themselves, a pleasure to be around, an absolute angel.

Not once in 8 years has a person said, "That person? Oh, she was a ****. Hated her! Glad she's gone!"
Let's face it: we are pretty much hypocrites when it comes to things like this.
I generally despise hypocristy, and a little bit of it is probably necessary on social occasions for the sake of some civility in our society.
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Old 16th August 2019, 09:43 AM   #308
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It appears that Betts was all sorts of jacked up when he started shooting:

Quote:
Dayton police said the gunman had cocaine, Xanax and alcohol among other substances in his system at the time of the mass shooting before police fatally shot him. Montgomery County Coroner Kent Harshbarger said that authorities also found a bag of cocaine on Connor Betts, 24.
I'm really curious what is included in "among other things"? I wonder if the guy that grew mushrooms and smoked weed also helped him get the cocaine? I have nothing to back that up and there's nothing in the article to imply it, just a thought.

Anyway, I don't have much experience with the drugs so I'm not sure if they fed his angst that night or helped him make his final decision. He seems unstable as all hell though considering what we now know.
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:00 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It appears that Betts was all sorts of jacked up when he started shooting:



I'm really curious what is included in "among other things"? I wonder if the guy that grew mushrooms and smoked weed also helped him get the cocaine? I have nothing to back that up and there's nothing in the article to imply it, just a thought.

Anyway, I don't have much experience with the drugs so I'm not sure if they fed his angst that night or helped him make his final decision. He seems unstable as all hell though considering what we now know.

If I were in a murderous rage and on the verge of going on a shooting spree (I'm neither) Xanax is precisely the thing I'd be reaching for to take me out of that head-space. When I've taken it in the past it had mellowed me out and relaxed me but without making me drowsy, fuzzy-headed, or otherwise 'high' feeling. It was a mental place of "you know, everything's pretty chill and groovy right now.". I know different people react differently to alcohol, but are there people who get all shooty from a Benzo?
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:03 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
If I were in a murderous rage and on the verge of going on a shooting spree (I'm neither) Xanax is precisely the thing I'd be reaching for to take me out of that head-space. When I've taken it in the past it had mellowed me out and relaxed me but without making me drowsy, fuzzy-headed, or otherwise 'high' feeling. It was a mental place of "you know, everything's pretty chill and groovy right now.". I know different people react differently to alcohol, but are there people who get all shooty from a Benzo?
I've heard of people snorting Xanax. Perhaps it has a different affect depending on how it's administered? No idea, I've never taken Xanax at all. It could be the combination of all of it that was the problem.
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Old 16th August 2019, 11:00 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I've heard of people snorting Xanax. Perhaps it has a different affect depending on how it's administered? No idea, I've never taken Xanax at all. It could be the combination of all of it that was the problem.
I do know that Xanax effects different people in different ways. Years ago when I had a prescription, one pill knocked me out in 30 minutes. Yet 2 friends liked to take them so they could party all night.
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