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Old 10th September 2020, 08:00 AM   #1
shemp
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FBI’s Terror Hunters Turn to a Different Threat: Incels

FBI’s Terror Hunters Turn to a Different Threat: Incels


Quote:
The FBI’s top terrorism cops took down a different kind of alleged terrorist in a complaint filed earlier this month: an incel.

In a complaint filed in federal court in White Plains, New York, an FBI agent with the Bureau’s Joint Terrorism Task Force detailed a year-long campaign of harassment, rape, and death threats levied at a Long Island couple by David Kaufman, a self-described member of the “incel” movement and supporter of one of its most notorious murderers, Elliot Rodger.

Prosecutors alleged that Kaufman terrorized a couple he knew from college and their friends in a series of messages on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube in retaliation for “for rejecting and depriving him of sex to which he believed he was entitled,” according to the complaint. He’s charged with making threatening interstate communications and stalking.
Quote:
In his alleged threats, Kaufman adopted the language of the incel movement, derisively referring to his victims’ high school classmates as “normies” and to one of his alleged victims as a “Chad,” which the complaint describes as “an Incel term that refers to an archetypal white alpha man.” He also allegedly adopted the movement’s misogynist goals, telling one victim that “it should be illegal for a woman to say no” to sex.

The complaint alleges that Kaufman began tormenting a woman he knew from college, her partner, and their friends in October 2019 after years of not speaking. The harassment began on Facebook when Kaufman allegedly falsely accused the woman’s partner, identified as Victim-2, of beating her.
Quote:
The harassment included both rape and death threats against Victim-1 and her social circle. “I'll have sex with a woman one day. One way or another [wink emoji],” he wrote to her in one missive. Kaufman expanded his alleged campaign of terror to include friends of the couple, one of whom allegedly received a bomb threat from the defendant in her mailbox along with a note that said “I'm going to tear your skin off and rape your face open stupid whore!!!”
What the hell is with these bastards? Apparently they have no ability to bathe or shower, wear clean and neat clothes, speak nicely to women, etc. Finding a partner isn't some kind of grand mystery, these clods are just incapable of normal behavior and thinking.
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Old 10th September 2020, 08:09 AM   #2
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I suggest they use a Honey Trap.
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Old 10th September 2020, 08:19 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I suggest they use a Honey Trap.
Was Honey Trap the name of a Bond girl? If not, it should be.
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Old 10th September 2020, 09:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Was Honey Trap the name of a Bond girl? If not, it should be.
Pussy Galore takes the blue ribbon for Bond monikers
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Old 10th September 2020, 09:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Pussy Galore takes the blue ribbon for Bond monikers
Not the infamous "Red Snapper?"
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Old 10th September 2020, 09:12 AM   #6
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Pussy Galore takes the blue ribbon for Bond monikers
why not Dixie Normous?
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Old 10th September 2020, 11:13 AM   #7
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Nate Dinguss?
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Old 10th September 2020, 11:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
What the hell is with these bastards?
They're fat, unwashed dickheads who live in a basement and belong to 4Chan, where they whip each other into virtual frenzy.

It's a culture where instead of trying to act human, they sit and act inhumanly then cry about why women won't look at them, despite never going anywhere to meet actual women.

Welcome to the internet.
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Old 10th September 2020, 01:11 PM   #9
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Part and parcel of a cultural shift toward extreme self-centeredness. Feelz over Reelz writ large.
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Old 10th September 2020, 02:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
why not Dixie Normous?

Hugh Jampton?
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Old 10th September 2020, 07:46 PM   #11
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People who truly think the world owes them something are dangerous, for obvious reasons.
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Old 11th September 2020, 12:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Hugh Jampton?
Biggus Dickus....

Oh sorry, wrong movie!
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Old 12th September 2020, 03:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Biggus Dickus....

Oh sorry, wrong movie!
Well, I’m sure his wife could give Bond some runs for his money
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Old 13th September 2020, 08:24 AM   #14
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https://www.motherjones.com/crime-ju...ass-shootings/

In all seriousness, it's good the FBI acted when it did. INCELs or their kindred spirits play a role in many mass shootings. The Arizona Westfield Mall shooting was one where three people died was linked to a self described INCEL.

This guy's behavior looked a lot like the behavior of other INCELs before they murdered people.
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Old 13th September 2020, 08:53 AM   #15
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Is Rittenhouse too young to be considered an incel?
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Old 13th September 2020, 09:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Is Rittenhouse too young to be considered an incel?
If 'Incel" was an objective category, I would say yes. But Incel is largely a self-chosen identity.

My impression is that Incel "ideologists" (let's call them) pointedly target high-school age boys for radicalization, because high schoolers are highly emotionally reactive and because a lot of them already believe in the suburban myth that most boys start having sex in their high school years. Those two factors probably make it stupidly easy to manipulate high school boys that don't have girlfriends or haven't "gotten lucky" yet into "realizing" that they're victims of Teh Feminists.
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Old 13th September 2020, 09:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Is Rittenhouse too young to be considered an incel?
Well, he is 17 so we know he wants to have sex. From what I've read and seen in interviews of high school classmates, it's unlikely he is having sex. I'm going with yes though I doubt that's how he sees himself.
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Old 13th September 2020, 04:47 PM   #18
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"incel" seems like a very forced categorization on Rittenhouse.
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Old 13th September 2020, 07:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
My impression is that Incel "ideologists" (let's call them) pointedly target high-school age boys for radicalization, because high schoolers are highly emotionally reactive and because a lot of them already believe in the suburban myth that most boys start having sex in their high school years.

I don't think that's a myth, as long as "most" means "more than half".
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Old 14th September 2020, 06:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
I don't think that's a myth, as long as "most" means "more than half".
Just over 40% these days.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-...-finds-n775236

Mind you, the Incel mindset regarding teenage sex is on esseentially identical to Jerry Springer guest outliers. Incels are convinced that almost all girls start having sex at around 12 and the “Chads” not very long after. They have convinced themselves they are the only ones not getting any sex and that it is somebody else’s fault.
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Old 14th September 2020, 06:45 AM   #21
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Call me skeptical regarding that figure:

The new report was conducted year round between 2011-2015, included 4,134 male and female teens, ages 15-19. Participation was voluntary and required parental permission, but responses were anonymous.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
Call me skeptical regarding that figure:

The new report was conducted year round between 2011-2015, included 4,134 male and female teens, ages 15-19. Participation was voluntary and required parental permission, but responses were anonymous.
What of the italicized do you feel supports your skepticism? None of it seems problematic to me.
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Old 14th September 2020, 07:32 AM   #23
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More to the point, the uninformed suburban myth has led to a cultural expectation among high schoolers that they are supposed to start having sex at some point during that time period, otherwise there's something "wrong" with them. This perception is then exploited by incel "evangelists" who offer the balm of revealing to upset boys that the reason they haven't been getting the sex they're supposed to be getting isn't their fault, but the fault of girls (well, females in general) "breaking" the natural order.
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Old 14th September 2020, 08:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
Call me skeptical regarding that figure:

The new report was conducted year round between 2011-2015, included 4,134 male and female teens, ages 15-19. Participation was voluntary and required parental permission, but responses were anonymous.
Another study was referenced from 1988 which had a higher figure. I’m assuming the sampling methods weren’t that different.

It’s not terribly surprising, really.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Apparently they have no ability to bathe or shower, wear clean and neat clothes, speak nicely to women, etc.
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
They're fat, unwashed dickheads who live in a basement... never going anywhere to meet actual women.
And the evidence for these claims is...

Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
They have convinced themselves they are the only ones not getting any sex and that it is somebody else’s fault.
Same question again but it's more interesting in this case. If it's true that they consider their predicament rare, then that's another difference from MGTOW that I wasn't aware of; I've never seen an incel video or read an incel rant, but I've seen several MGTOW videos, and they do not depict sexual relationships as uncommon or difficult to get, just not-worth-it.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
It's not entirely clear, but it appears they are not including oral sex.
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Old 14th September 2020, 09:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
But Incel is largely a self-chosen identity.

Presumably they prefer it to “wanker”.
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
"incel" seems like a very forced categorization on Rittenhouse.
The way I understand things, "incel" as the hardcore ideology has to be self-declared. Simply being involuntarily celibate is not sufficient. One must actually declare that one is incel, which involves subscribing to a certain set of principles in addition to a lack of sexual activity or romance in one's life. Those principles can vary in their intensity, but they are all generally based in antifeminism, conservatism, and I guess a certain flavor of misanthropy.

Is that more or less accurate?
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Old 14th September 2020, 10:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
What of the italicized do you feel supports your skepticism? None of it seems problematic to me.
It's a very poor example of sampling. It's anonymous, there's no mention of the sampling skewing towards males or females (just a total number), parents had to consent, which means the children most likely to engage in sex (i.e. ones with absentee parents) were most likely under-represented...I could go on.
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Old 14th September 2020, 11:50 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
It's not entirely clear, but it appears they are not including oral sex.
Oral sex does not cause pregnancy and is much less likely to spread STDs.
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Old 14th September 2020, 11:54 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
And the evidence for these claims is...

Same question again but it's more interesting in this case. If it's true that they consider their predicament rare, then that's another difference from MGTOW that I wasn't aware of; I've never seen an incel video or read an incel rant, but I've seen several MGTOW videos, and they do not depict sexual relationships as uncommon or difficult to get, just not-worth-it.
MGTOW is much more different in that they are just saying they don't want to bother.

Incels have a different mindset. It is much more entitled. Their forums are are a littered combination of self-pity, digital self-harm, incredible hatred of women, and loads of attempts to equate the need for sex as a human requirement such as food, water and oxygen. They have had multiple threads on how they should get government mandated sex-slaves. We're not talking about any woman, either, they demand underage waifu to be their sex servants.

If you don't want to go to their forums you can look at the group inceltear on reddit for some lovely examples.
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:34 PM   #32
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I can't keep up with all the acronyms...I know what incels are, what is a mgtow? Is that some sort of neckbeard thing I'm missing? Mustache guys that objecify women? Am I close?
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
I can't keep up with all the acronyms...I know what incels are, what is a mgtow? Is that some sort of neckbeard thing I'm missing? Mustache guys that objecify women? Am I close?
Yes, you are close.

Men Go Their Own Way. Basically neckbeards who are to chicken-**** to be gay.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:03 PM   #34
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Men Going Their Own Way. Fundamentally, the name sounds like just staying single because that's the decision that the pros & cons point to for a better life, and that's probably all it really is to most people who call themselves that. But those who are motivated enough about it to post videos & blogs about it often come across as rather bitter & resentful, so there's some overlap with incel attitudes, just a much healthier way of handling it.

A particularly noteworthy point of overlap for my question & why I brought it up is that some MGTOW commentators describe what women want in a man in similar terms to how incels might describe what women want in a man, and both do it from the point of view of somebody who does not meet those ideal standards (not necessarily because of how pitiful they are but because of how over-the-top women's standards are). But MGTOW commentators don't say that being able to get a girlfriend or wife is rare; they just say it usually ends up unsatisfying. So if incels consider their predicament rare, that's a difference.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yes, you are close.

Men Go Their Own Way. Basically neckbeards who are to chicken-**** to be gay.
Coulda fooled me, it sounds like it's right there in the name!

Thanks for the explanation, by the way. I deal with too many acronyms at work to keep up with the pop culture versions.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:46 PM   #36
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Hmmm... I think what I was really after there was the difference between the two groups' attitudes about men in the middle group: not up to women's crazily high demands, but still able to date/marry them anyway if they choose to. I call this a "middle" group because one extreme would be the few rare guys who would pass women's severe checklists, and the other extreme would be universally rejected guys who just can't get anywhere with women.

MGTOW would mostly put themselves in that middle group, which is the same boat that they'd say most men are in. They might not even recognize that latter extreme category, the hopeless rejects, as existing at all, but if they think it does, their philosophy doesn't need to have anything to say about it.

Incels might put themselves in the latter extreme group, the hopeless rejects, which is uncommon. But do they really see themselves as that rare? Or do they see themselves as representing most men by, figuring that being with a woman who doesn't really want you but is just settling or running a con doesn't count?

Not that I really expect to find the answer in a thread at a forum where the usual exploration of the facts on this kind of subject consists of just flinging hostile stereotypes around... just something I'm wondering about at the moment.
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Old 14th September 2020, 02:19 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Oral sex does not cause pregnancy and is much less likely to spread STDs.

Not really relevant to this discussion. The high school boys who are getting oral sex aren't complaining about not getting laid, and incels would be just as jealous or whatever for either type of sex.
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Old 14th September 2020, 02:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
The way I understand things, "incel" as the hardcore ideology has to be self-declared. Simply being involuntarily celibate is not sufficient.

Apart from medical conditions, imprisonment, etc., there is no such thing as "involuntarily celibate", there is only "unreasonably high standards".
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Old 14th September 2020, 02:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
It's a very poor example of sampling. It's anonymous, there's no mention of the sampling skewing towards males or females (just a total number), parents had to consent, which means the children most likely to engage in sex (i.e. ones with absentee parents) were most likely under-represented...I could go on.
I disagree. Firstly, all sampling of this nature is effectively anonymous anyway, so that's not a problem. As for your statement about children with "absentee parents" being the ones most likely to engage in sex, that appears to be a question-begging assumption.

If you have some numbers from a different study that is a "better" example of sampling in your opinion and which shows contradicting results for the same time period, that would be a more effective argument.
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Old 14th September 2020, 02:27 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Incels might put themselves in the latter extreme group, the hopeless rejects, which is uncommon. But do they really see themselves as that rare? Or do they see themselves as representing most men by, figuring that being with a woman who doesn't really want you but is just settling or running a con doesn't count?
I believe they do consider themselves to be a minority. They recognize the existence of the type of man you describe (being with a woman who is settling or running a con); they even have a special term for him - a "beta" - but they proclaim look down on such men and seem to see them as a kind of sellout.
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