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View Poll Results: Are you willing to work for free if the goods and services are free?
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Old 17th September 2020, 01:24 PM   #1641
Jack by the hedge
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
All you want is to cut the head of a cow and sit on it skin, luxury yes, but not at detriment of humanity.
I've never owned a car with leather seats, though they're hardly the epitome of luxury these days. Are leather shoes a banned luxury too?

Maybe we should assume that farmers will no longer raise cows, since the main purpose of doing so is so that other people can chop their heads off to make food and leather.

It's going to be hard for people to guess whether they should keep working or stop. Will you publish a list of banned activities?
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Old 17th September 2020, 06:09 PM   #1642
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Living in his world is a death sentence. A world filled with warlords, to be certain.
What is a death sentence is to live in a world of money. The medicine system is the most corrupted by money in the world. Physicians are taught to sell drugs that kill millions of people. Just say, the sleeping pills prescribed by physicians kill more people in US than the Covid 19.

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use

https://theconversation.com/some-rea...ng-pills-10054

Last edited by Gaetan; 17th September 2020 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 18th September 2020, 02:15 AM   #1643
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What is a death sentence is to live in a world of money. The medicine system is the most corrupted by money in the world. Physicians are taught to sell drugs that kill millions of people...
Blame the system then, not the existence of money. My country has money too but gives universal free healthcare.

You're like a crazy person raging against forest fires who wants to ban trees.
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Old 18th September 2020, 04:34 AM   #1644
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Blame the system then, not the existence of money. My country has money too but gives universal free healthcare.

You're like a crazy person raging against forest fires who wants to ban trees.
If there would be no trees, there would be no fire but trees are good not money. What would be the interest to make and sell drugs that kill people if money wouldn't be the motivation?
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Old 18th September 2020, 06:35 AM   #1645
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What is a death sentence is to live in a world of money. The medicine system is the most corrupted by money in the world. Physicians are taught to sell drugs that kill millions of people. Just say, the sleeping pills prescribed by physicians kill more people in US than the Covid 19.

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use

https://theconversation.com/some-rea...ng-pills-10054
7.8 billion people on this rock, give or take. Your plan doesn't kill 300 to 500 thousand people a year, it takes the planet down to 300 to 500 thousand people period.

Your plan would make you, hands down, the biggest butcher in human history, and you weep crocodile tears over thousands as you kill billions.
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Old 18th September 2020, 06:39 AM   #1646
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If there would be no trees, there would be no fire but trees are good not money. What would be the interest to make and sell drugs that kill people if money wouldn't be the motivation?
They aren't selling drugs to kill people. They aren't you. They are selling drugs because the drugs offer a high, a good feeling, that people get addicted to.
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Old 18th September 2020, 09:32 AM   #1647
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
7.8 billion people on this rock, give or take. Your plan doesn't kill 300 to 500 thousand people a year, it takes the planet down to 300 to 500 thousand people period.
What you say is not supported by evidences, you just say it. What i say is well supported by evidences:

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use.

https://theconversation.com/some-rea...ng-pills-10054
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Old 18th September 2020, 10:28 AM   #1648
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What you say is not supported by evidences, you just say it. What i say is well supported by evidences:

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use.

https://theconversation.com/some-rea...ng-pills-10054
You just say it too. The guy who wrote that article, just wrote it. It's not scientific, it wasn't subject to any type of review. It was posted by the editor of the website. So if I find a place to post my article "Gaetan the Butcher" will that make it true.

I've explained a few times about the scores of dead bodies you will create from your ill conceived plans. The fact it was published on this forum carries exactly the same weight of that website.

It's ok, if you want to be the biggest butcher in history, just own it.
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Old 18th September 2020, 01:13 PM   #1649
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What you say is not supported by evidences, you just say it. What i say is well supported by evidences:

The researchers estimated between 300,000 to 500,000 excess deaths each year in the United States alone associated with hypnotic use.

https://theconversation.com/some-rea...ng-pills-10054
That is what the article says,

This is what the researchers actually said.


From the study itself.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000850

Quote:
Conclusions

Rough order-of-magnitude estimates at the end of the supplemental files suggest that in 2010, hypnotics may have been associated with 320 000 to 507 000 excess deaths in the USA alone. From this non-randomised study, we cannot be certain what portion of the mortality associated with hypnotics may have been attributable to these drugs, but the consistency of our estimates across a spectrum of health and disease suggests that the mortality effect of hypnotics was substantial. Even 10 000 yearly excess deaths caused by hypnotics would be too many.
You will note the explicit assertion that they can't be certain what portion of their "Rough order-of-magnitude estimates" could be actually "attributable to these drugs".

So what both you and the article imply is explicitly not what the researchers actually said. They were explicit that only some uncertain portion of the estimate number could be attributed to (not just associated with) those drugs.

I admonish you, once again, to actually read, in detail, your own citations.
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Last edited by The Man; 18th September 2020 at 01:18 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 18th September 2020, 01:34 PM   #1650
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If there would be no trees, there would be no fire but trees are good not money. What would be the interest to make and sell drugs that kill people if money wouldn't be the motivation?
Trees didn't save my wife's life. Drugs did that. Drugs for which we paid nothing. Very clever drugs created by very clever people who might well have been able to make more money doing something else but somehow they managed to remain interested in creating life-saving treatments.

Your obsession with money is just weird and you are *exactly* as wrong as someone who thinks we need to ban trees to save ourselves from fires.
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Old 19th September 2020, 01:11 PM   #1651
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
You will note the explicit assertion that they can't be certain what portion of their "Rough order-of-magnitude estimates" could be actually "attributable to these drugs".

So what both you and the article imply is explicitly not what the researchers actually said. They were explicit that only some uncertain portion of the estimate number could be attributed to (not just associated with) those drugs.

I admonish you, once again, to actually read, in detail, your own citations.
The study say that the minimum is 200,000, the max is 500,000 death, isn't that enough to you. The motivation to sell that kind of product: Money. Why it it on sale? Corruption by money.

Last edited by Gaetan; 19th September 2020 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 20th September 2020, 11:20 AM   #1652
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The study say that the minimum is 200,000, the max is 500,000 death, isn't that enough to you.
Again what they say is explicitly associated with, not attributed to. So again your simplistic assertion of "the minimum is 200,000, the max is 500,000 death" was specifically not enough for them. The lack of specific attributability is critical, such that they explicitly noted it.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The motivation to sell that kind of product: Money. Why it it on sale? Corruption by money.
It is on sale becouse it helps some people sleep, lack of sleep can likewise be a contributing factor in one's death. Even including some of the same mechanisms noted in the study, such as poor motor control.

Again you are just taking a couple of numbers from the study out of context and attempting to portray them in a way the researchers explicitly do not.
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Old 20th September 2020, 12:11 PM   #1653
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
It is on sale becouse it helps some people sleep, lack of sleep can likewise be a contributing factor in one's death. Even including some of the same mechanisms noted in the study, such as poor motor control.
Lack of sleep is no joke. As you noted, it contributes to countless deadly accidents, and kills not only the non-sleeper, but innocent bystanders.

But that doesn't matter to our local butcher. He is going to kill billions to make his reality happen. An additional few hundred thousand isn't even a blip on his moral radar, unless it supports his points. Those suffering from insomnia, will die in his world as quick or quicker than side effects from pharmaceuticals. They get to die out in the fields, harvesting wheat for his bread.
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Old 20th September 2020, 12:41 PM   #1654
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Lack of sleep is no joke. As you noted, it contributes to countless deadly accidents, and kills not only the non-sleeper, but innocent bystanders.

But that doesn't matter to our local butcher. He is going to kill billions to make his reality happen. An additional few hundred thousand isn't even a blip on his moral radar, unless it supports his points. Those suffering from insomnia, will die in his world as quick or quicker than side effects from pharmaceuticals. They get to die out in the fields, harvesting wheat for his bread.
You have the choice of a dozen of natural products without any side effect like death, if it doesn't work you can always try the auto hypnose. The reason why they sell that is because physicians were teach and told to do so by drug producers for money profit. And these products were accepted by the FDA because of money corruption.

Last edited by Gaetan; 20th September 2020 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 20th September 2020, 12:44 PM   #1655
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Again what they say is explicitly associated with, not attributed to. So again your simplistic assertion of "the minimum is 200,000, the max is 500,000 death" was specifically not enough for them. The lack of specific attributability is critical, such that they explicitly noted it.



It is on sale becouse it helps some people sleep, lack of sleep can likewise be a contributing factor in one's death. Even including some of the same mechanisms noted in the study, such as poor motor control.

Again you are just taking a couple of numbers from the study out of context and attempting to portray them in a way the researchers explicitly do not.
Between 200,000 and 500,000 death doesn't mean zero as you said but these real numbers, what the science say that's what it is.
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Old 20th September 2020, 04:54 PM   #1656
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under the no money system goods will be made for the benefit of citizen so there is no benefit of drugs, then all these products will be remouved from drug stores.
Well, cigarettes and alcohol as well?

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Concerning prostitution as all goods and services are free of charge there will be no need for a prostitute to work as such.
So ugly seniors who want to have sex from time to time will not be able to do so in your perfect world?
Oh boy..
No alcohol, no cigarettes, no drugs, no P4P sex.
You are showing us a pretty much dull world to live in


Last edited by MMarco; 20th September 2020 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 20th September 2020, 04:55 PM   #1657
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Well, drug production would magically stop since there is no profit motive. Keep in mind, that drugs are the only thing made for profit. Everything else is made for the love of making it. Or something.

Gaetan has avoided addressing sex work in his perfect vision, to my recollection. Best guess, he wouldn't approve of it as it would fail his puritan value check, so it also has to go.
Do not count me in then
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Old 20th September 2020, 05:26 PM   #1658
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Between 200,000 and 500,000 death doesn't mean zero
And more importantly "associated with" doesn't mean the same thing as "attributable to" as you keep failing to recognise.
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Old 20th September 2020, 06:19 PM   #1659
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Chemotherapy drugs are associated with cancer deaths. Insulin use is associated with deaths from diabetes complications. Ambulance transportation is associated with trauma deaths and cardiac arrest deaths. Crutches and casts are associated with broken bones.

Would these all be banned in Gaetan's ideal world?
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Old 20th September 2020, 08:03 PM   #1660
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Chemotherapy drugs are associated with cancer deaths. Insulin use is associated with deaths from diabetes complications. Ambulance transportation is associated with trauma deaths and cardiac arrest deaths. Crutches and casts are associated with broken bones.

Would these all be banned in Gaetan's ideal world?
As there will be no corruption done under the no money system just the healthy drugs will be available. What would be the purpose to put drugs on market that kill people if dineros profit is not at the motivation.
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Old 20th September 2020, 08:09 PM   #1661
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Define "healthy".
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Old 20th September 2020, 08:57 PM   #1662
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Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post
Define "healthy".
As exemple: among the healthy products you won't find the chip of Bill Gates or similar ****
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Old Yesterday, 06:36 AM   #1663
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You have the choice of a dozen of natural products without any side effect like death, if it doesn't work you can always try the auto hypnose. The reason why they sell that is because physicians were teach and told to do so by drug producers for money profit. And these products were accepted by the FDA because of money corruption.
There is no such thing that has "no side effects" that has any actual effects. Natural doesn't mean safe.

The reason they sell, is because they work. Period. If they didn't work, nobody would buy them. Nobody would pay for them. I'm not surprised your wholly uncritical thinking would buy into "auto hypnose"

Your compassion for those who suffer from insomnia is on par to earn the nickname "Butcher" Earn it!
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Old Yesterday, 07:30 AM   #1664
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
As there will be no corruption done under the no money system just the healthy drugs will be available. What would be the purpose to put drugs on market that kill people if dineros profit is not at the motivation.
Well, for those who actually think a little, it might be remembered that many drugs do both depending on how they are used, as has been the case for many many years, right back to the original uses of such things as belladonna and foxglove.
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Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM   #1665
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Those 500,000 dead people are just because of sleeping pills, then you can assume that there are millions killed by other drugs prescribed by physicians, a real money corruption genocide. There can't be money and health care, this one or the other.

Last edited by Gaetan; Yesterday at 01:17 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM   #1666
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Well, for those who actually think a little, it might be remembered that many drugs do both depending on how they are used, as has been the case for many many years, right back to the original uses of such things as belladonna and foxglove.
Foxglove is an interesting example. People grow it for its pretty flowers. It's also used to prevent heart attacks. It can also be used to cause a heart attack. It's effect on the heart is the same, just depending on when you use it, it can kill or cure. It's almost like money, or profit, has nothing to do with it.
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Old Yesterday, 01:23 PM   #1667
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Those 500,000 dead people are just because of sleeping pills, then you can assume that there are millions killed by other drugs prescribed by physicians, a real money corruption genocide. There can't be money and health care, this one or the other.
Your linked study doesn't provide the evidence to support that.

The billions of dead people are just because you want to ban money. There can't be free stuff and stuff at the same time. Butcher.
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Old Yesterday, 10:08 PM   #1668
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Those 500,000 dead people are just because of sleeping pills, then you can assume that there are millions killed by other drugs prescribed by physicians, a real money corruption genocide. There can't be money and health care, this one or the other.
Are we discussing about people per year or in total?
Is there any authoritative link available?
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Old Today, 02:55 AM   #1669
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
As exemple: among the healthy products you won't find the chip of Bill Gates or similar ****
Because there is no "Bill Gates chip".

Some years ago, I took a drug for 6 months that saved my life. Unsupervised, that drug would have killed me.

And you want to ban it.
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Old Today, 06:36 AM   #1670
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Originally Posted by MMarco View Post
Are we discussing about people per year or in total?
Is there any authoritative link available?
This is per year, i put the link in the previous post.
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