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Old 7th February 2018, 07:54 PM   #1
Mycroft
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Woman forced to use men's room because she's not feminine enough

And thankfully Walgreens changed their policy over it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wa...her/ar-BBIPrNf

The first story says she's not transgender, this other story says she is:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/02/...ught-back-won/

The second story has a picture of her, which I wouldn't describe as "transgender", though certainly not cis-gender either.

Does anyone really still think we should have laws forcing people to use whichever bathroom matches the gender they were born with? It seems to me such policies or laws would inevitably lead to situations where some ignoramus feels empowered to dictate to someone what bathroom they're supposed to use, and get it wrong. Isn't it better to just be more open to the existence of different types of people and not be threatened by it?
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:18 PM   #2
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You're re-opening a can of worms that will result in the anti-trans crowd on this board to come and spew their vile bigotry over the thread again.

On the article, I think that whoever told her she was too manly nees their eyes checked. Sure, she's not going to win any Miss universe contests, but she's not exactly that blokey either.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The second story has a picture of her, which I wouldn't describe as "transgender", though certainly not cis-gender either.
If I wasn't informed that this person is transgender I would think that I'm looking at a butch lesbian.

The hairstyle combined with the piercings strongly suggests lesbianism to me. This person may indeed live their life as a lesbian. Identifying as a woman and is sexually attracted to women. It's a hunch.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
And thankfully Walgreens changed their policy over it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wa...her/ar-BBIPrNf

The first story says she's not transgender, this other story says she is:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/02/...ught-back-won/

The second story has a picture of her, which I wouldn't describe as "transgender", though certainly not cis-gender either.

Does anyone really still think we should have laws forcing people to use whichever bathroom matches the gender they were born with? It seems to me such policies or laws would inevitably lead to situations where some ignoramus feels empowered to dictate to someone what bathroom they're supposed to use, and get it wrong. Isn't it better to just be more open to the existence of different types of people and not be threatened by it?
For some God fearin' American conservatives, who pees where is an absolute National Security concern.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Does anyone really still think we should have laws forcing people to use whichever bathroom matches the gender they were born with?
I certainly don't.


On the other hand, I think if you happen to have functioning genitalia, i.e. capable of making babies the old fashioned way, a business/office/place that offers restroom facilities should be allowed to have a policy that says such people should use facilities that match those functioning genitalia.

ETA: And I think those policies should be enforced only on the honor system. i.e. We'll take your word for it that you have the right genitalia, rather than performing inspections.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 7th February 2018 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I certainly don't.


On the other hand, I think if you happen to have functioning genitalia, i.e. capable of making babies the old fashioned way, a business/office/place that offers restroom facilities should be allowed to have a policy that says such people should use facilities that match those functioning genitalia.

ETA: And I think those policies should be enforced only on the honor system. i.e. We'll take your word for it that you have the right genitalia, rather than performing inspections.
Why? Has there been a rash of people whipping out their genitalia in bathrooms and flashing them about?
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:35 PM   #7
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I'm still left a bit confused.

I thought one of the applauded responses to all this bathroom silliness was establishments having gender neutral bathrooms. But:
Quote:
“I had to go so I didn’t put up much of a fight and used the stall while the men used the urinals next to me,” she wrote. “This in itself was very humiliating for me and I felt extremely uncomfortable.”
I'm fully in support of gender neutral bathrooms and folks choosing whichever they identify with if the bathrooms are gender specific. Go in, do you business, get out, and who cares who else is in there in the other stalls. But, if gender neutral bathrooms means no more urinals... I don't think I can get behind it anymore.

I'll be behind the tree out back...
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You're re-opening a can of worms that will result in the anti-trans crowd on this board to come and spew their vile bigotry over the thread again.

On the article, I think that whoever told her she was too manly nees their eyes checked. Sure, she's not going to win any Miss universe contests, but she's not exactly that blokey either.
Let's see. I doubt that those particular leopards have changed their spots but sometimes the dialogue shifts over just a couple of years. I haven't seen (elsewhere on the interwebz) the virulence that this issue brought up a scant 18 months ago.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why? Has there been a rash of people whipping out their genitalia in bathrooms and flashing them about?
Well as long as they don't, then that whole "honor system" thing would work just fine.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
I'm still left a bit confused.

I thought one of the applauded responses to all this bathroom silliness was establishments having gender neutral bathrooms. But:


I'm fully in support of gender neutral bathrooms and folks choosing whichever they identify with if the bathrooms are gender specific. Go in, do you business, get out, and who cares who else is in there in the other stalls. But, if gender neutral bathrooms means no more urinals... I don't think I can get behind it anymore.

I'll be behind the tree out back...
Do you have a urinal in your bathroom at home?
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well as long as they don't, then that whole "honor system" thing would work just fine.
But at that point, what's the point of it? Why not just allow them to use the gendered bathroom that associate with?
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Do you have a urinal in your bathroom at home?
No need, I live in the country where there are many trees and few neighbors

But, I have at least two friends who do.

Thats rather not the point, tho, is it? None of this bathroom silliness has ever had anything to do with private privvies.

(ETA: in case it has escaped notice, urinals exist in public bathrooms because they are far more efficient in high traffic situations, given the typical male anatomy.)
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Has there been a rash of people whipping out their genitalia in bathrooms and flashing them about?
She whipped out her pussy.

That doesn't work well in print. I wonder what it looks like in person.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:50 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I wonder what it looks like in person.
Bit of a dry spell, eh?

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Old 7th February 2018, 08:59 PM   #15
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Pretty clear she was not “forced” to use it.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:02 PM   #16
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She whipped out her pussy and swung it around the bathroom like it was some kind of newfangled rodeo. Thwack!
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:36 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She whipped out her pussy and swung it around the bathroom like it was some kind of newfangled rodeo. Thwack!
I hope you are just referring to the restroom being so small that “there wasn’t enough space to swing a cat?” Yes??
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If I wasn't informed that this person is transgender I would think that I'm looking at a butch lesbian.

The hairstyle combined with the piercings strongly suggests lesbianism to me. This person may indeed live their life as a lesbian. Identifying as a woman and is sexually attracted to women. It's a hunch.
Joking right? If not perhaps I can send you my picture and you can tell me my favorite sexual position...
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
I'm still left a bit confused.

I thought one of the applauded responses to all this bathroom silliness was establishments having gender neutral bathrooms. But:


I'm fully in support of gender neutral bathrooms and folks choosing whichever they identify with if the bathrooms are gender specific. Go in, do you business, get out, and who cares who else is in there in the other stalls. But, if gender neutral bathrooms means no more urinals... I don't think I can get behind it anymore.

I'll be behind the tree out back...
I'd sorely miss urinals if they were gone. An establishment could, I imagine, have the urinals separated from the rest of the bathroom by some sort of partition and still have the bathroom be gender neutral. Any of you guys ever run a business where you have to deal with these sorts of issues?
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Joking right? If not perhaps I can send you my picture and you can tell me my favorite sexual position...
I would tend to agree with William Parcher that the woman in the photograph looks like a lesbian. For better or for worse, I would say there are some appearances which are more likely to indicate sexual orientation than others. And she certainly has a "lesbian" appearance. And that makes it odd that she was told she had to use the men's room. She simply does not look like a man.
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I'd sorely miss urinals if they were gone. An establishment could, I imagine, have the urinals separated from the rest of the bathroom by some sort of partition and still have the bathroom be gender neutral. Any of you guys ever run a business where you have to deal with these sorts of issues?
The most recent interstate rest area I visited was laid out like that. You walked into a small room that was wash basins and hand dryers. Then there were urinals behind a partition and stalls with toilets.

OTOH, at my favorite local college basketball mecca, the men's bathrooms are half the size of the women's (and the line is half as long, if not less, and moves quickly). There are just three stalls with toilets and the entire rest of the perimeter is one big, continuous urinal 30 or 40 folks can use at once. If they eliminated urinals in favor of toilets in stalls they'd need probably quadruple the space and they'd probably quadruple their water usage.
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I would tend to agree with William Parcher that the woman in the photograph looks like a lesbian. For better or for worse, I would say there are some appearances which are more likely to indicate sexual orientation than others. And she certainly has a "lesbian" appearance. And that makes it odd that she was told she had to use the men's room. She simply does not look like a man.
I’ve seen people choose any of the wide variety of possible appearances simply because they like them or to make statements unrelated to sexual preference. The “look” of the woman in the picture may resemble in some ways that which was/is popular among some lesbians but I know several straight women with that look. Or she could be a lesbian. Or asexual. My point was the questionable aspects of doing a sexual preference diagnosis by photo (recent claims related to machine-learning, training, and AI exempted). If I had to make any predictions from the photo they would be that she doesn’t often wear frilly dresses and, maybe, she might punch you if you stole her beer at a bar.
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I'd sorely miss urinals if they were gone. An establishment could, I imagine, have the urinals separated from the rest of the bathroom by some sort of partition and still have the bathroom be gender neutral. Any of you guys ever run a business where you have to deal with these sorts of issues?
I have a wife. Not only are there no urinals at home but I am expected to put the lid down when I am done.

In local businesses some of the any gender restrooms have urinals and some do not. Frankly I never liked urinals: I tend to be shy and i’ve also had drunk guys splash on me.
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Joking right? If not perhaps I can send you my picture and you can tell me my favorite sexual position...
Pssssst. Go back to the shipwrecked gals thread and all will be revealed.*







* Whether you want it to be or not.
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Old 7th February 2018, 11:59 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I would tend to agree with William Parcher that the woman in the photograph looks like a lesbian. For better or for worse, I would say there are some appearances which are more likely to indicate sexual orientation than others. And she certainly has a "lesbian" appearance. And that makes it odd that she was told she had to use the men's room. She simply does not look like a man.
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I’ve seen people choose any of the wide variety of possible appearances simply because they like them or to make statements unrelated to sexual preference. The “look” of the woman in the picture may resemble in some ways that which was/is popular among some lesbians but I know several straight women with that look. Or she could be a lesbian. Or asexual. My point was the questionable aspects of doing a sexual preference diagnosis by photo (recent claims related to machine-learning, training, and AI exempted). If I had to make any predictions from the photo they would be that she doesn’t often wear frilly dresses and, maybe, she might punch you if you stole her beer at a bar.
Essentially, without the padding, you agree with me.
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Old 8th February 2018, 12:26 AM   #26
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Some of you, really need to try and get out more ....
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Old 8th February 2018, 12:39 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Some of you, really need to try and get out more ....
I'm a tad worried about my next visit to the USA and using a public toilet, I've not been for a few years but the change in behaviour worries me. All these people exposing themselves in loos, walking around showing their genitals, pulling down their pants and making people look at other people's genitals! Sounds like a notorious cottage from the 1960s!
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Old 8th February 2018, 01:34 AM   #28
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My dear, well read, very intelligent and not conservative mother-in-law, now departed, when she saw news stories like this used to say "I'm glad I'm not going to be around for too much longer". I kind of get what she meant.

If you don't get your sexual perference diagnosis right first time, righteous wrath awaits...
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Old 8th February 2018, 03:54 AM   #29
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Or you can treat other people's sexual preferences* as their own business and not worry about anyone's 'righteous wrath'.

*For the purposes of avoiding doubt, I am referring to relationships between consenting adults.
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Old 8th February 2018, 05:20 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The second story has a picture of her, which I wouldn't describe as "transgender", though certainly not cis-gender either.
Doesn't "trans" refer to how someone identifies, rather than whether they are transitioning? I don't think you can spot that visually.
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Old 8th February 2018, 05:29 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Or you can treat other people's sexual preferences* as their own business and not worry about anyone's 'righteous wrath'.

*For the purposes of avoiding doubt, I am referring to relationships between consenting adults.
This
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Old 8th February 2018, 05:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I'd sorely miss urinals if they were gone. An establishment could, I imagine, have the urinals separated from the rest of the bathroom by some sort of partition and still have the bathroom be gender neutral. Any of you guys ever run a business where you have to deal with these sorts of issues?
I haven't run any business, but recently I was at a conference center in Amsterdam with "gender neutral" bathrooms. The urinals in the former men's room were still there, but there was also free sanitary pads and tampons at the sink. Weird stuff. I wouldn't want to stand there and piss with women in the room, and there weren't any, either.
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:10 AM   #33
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Okay, with all this gender neutral, trans-friendly bathroom crap, where are woman gonna go to breast feed?
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:13 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Okay, with all this gender neutral, trans-friendly bathroom crap, where are woman gonna go to breast feed?
Let's not make her do that in the bathroom.
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:15 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Okay, with all this gender neutral, trans-friendly bathroom crap, where are woman gonna go to breast feed?
In her seat.
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why? Has there been a rash of people whipping out their genitalia in bathrooms and flashing them about?
It's not that. In my experience, bathrooms are safe zones where you can drop social niceties for a minute ('Murican male POV). The opposite gender in the rest room, or appearance of such, triggers 'observe public behavior' mode. Causes some dissonance to be servicing socially improper bodily functions when your eyes are telling you it is a public behavior situation, like peeing in a cup while at a theater.

Re: OP, yeah, whoever told her to use the men's room was really bent. She has the same look as a lot of both straight and gay women. I'm thinking it was less Walgreen's call and more that associate's agenda.
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:32 AM   #37
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's not that. In my experience, bathrooms are safe zones where you can drop social niceties for a minute ('Murican male POV).
What niceties?
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:40 AM   #38
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's not that. In my experience, bathrooms are safe zones where you can drop social niceties for a minute ('Murican male POV).
That's the best argument I've ever heard for gender neutral bathrooms. I want social niceties when I'm peeing.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm thinking it was less Walgreen's call and more that associate's agenda.
Probably.

At the same time, that's a really good argument for leaving it to the "honor system" of which bathroom to use. It takes away the potential of abuse from the wanna-be fascist associate.
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:48 AM   #39
Thermal
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What niceties?
The usual kind. Like where I would not unsheathe and handle my genitalia a couple feet away from a strange woman or young girl. In my experience, rest rooms are a brief retreat from outward social proprieties.
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Old 8th February 2018, 06:56 AM   #40
Porpoise of Life
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The usual kind. Like where I would not unsheathe and handle my genitalia a couple feet away from a strange woman or young girl. In my experience, rest rooms are a brief retreat from outward social proprieties.
I'm only getting my junk out because I need to pee, not because I finally don't have to conform to social mores anymore, or because I want to... it's purely functional, and I don't care what the genitalia of the person using the stall a few feet away look like.

And since I don't want to draw any attention to myself when I'm taking a dump or standing there urinating, I'd even say that the bathroom is a place where propriety is more important than back at the bar.
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