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14th May 2020, 12:54 PM | #841 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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14th May 2020, 12:55 PM | #842 |
"más divertido"
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Wisconsin is #1 or #2 every time those surveys come out about which state is the most obese, so really it's just local people being out.
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14th May 2020, 09:53 PM | #843 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Apparently the COVID infections are now rising steeply in those states that did not close and/or had those "Freedumb" protests.
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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14th May 2020, 10:03 PM | #844 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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14th May 2020, 11:27 PM | #845 |
Graduate Poster
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"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." ~ Emo Phillips |
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15th May 2020, 06:51 AM | #846 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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15th May 2020, 07:37 PM | #847 |
Penultimate Amazing
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My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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15th May 2020, 07:51 PM | #848 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The problem is that wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer, but helps prevent others from getting it by reducing the distance the virus can be projected into the area around them. That protects the idiots not wearing masks. The idiots not wearing masks spread it farther and wider infecting even those who do wear masks. That means it's the idiots being protected and the non-idiots are not being protected. Sort of a reverse Darwin survival of the fittest: survival of the idiots.
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15th May 2020, 07:57 PM | #849 |
Penultimate Amazing
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16th May 2020, 09:52 AM | #850 |
... and your little dog too.
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16th May 2020, 09:54 AM | #851 |
... and your little dog too.
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18th May 2020, 02:46 PM | #852 |
Penultimate Amazing
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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18th May 2020, 03:24 PM | #853 |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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26th May 2020, 10:34 AM | #854 |
Evil Fokker
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Its counter-attack time for the Trumpkins since Trump is patting himself on the back for beating COVID-19. Lots of posts about how the deaths were no big deal. Lots of posts about how most of the deaths were in populous regions of the East Coast and so no big deal. "It's all scare tactics!!!!", etc.
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www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
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14th June 2020, 06:11 AM | #855 |
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I know plenty of Democrats and Independents who agree that we have severely overreacted to COVID-19, that COVID-19 is not nearly as deadly as we were originally told, and that these destructive lockdowns around the country were unnecessary and baseless.
The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed 116,000 Americans. That was 0.066% of the U.S. population. Our population was 175 million at the time. Our current population is 328.2 million. 0.066% of 328.2 million would be 216,000 deaths. However, in response to the Asian Flu pandemic, we did not panic and did not impose extreme lockdown measures; as a result, we did not put tens of millions of people out of work, did not force thousands of businesses to close, did not close schools all over the country, and did not require people to wear masks. Why did we not panic back then? Why are we panicking now? The 1968 Hong Kong Flu pandemic killed 100,000 Americans. That was 0.05% of the U.S. population. Our population was 200.7 million at the time. 0.05% of our current population would be 164,000 deaths. As we had done with the Asian Flu, we did not panic and did not impose drastic lockdown measures. Why not? There were two big differences between our reaction to the Asian Flu and the Hong Kong Flu and our reaction to COVID-19: One, our news media did not cover those pandemics in a way that created panic, whereas the majority of our current news media have covered COVID-19 in a way that has caused panic and fear far beyond what the facts justify. Two, very few elected officials or public health officials called for drastic lockdown measures to combat those pandemics, whereas our current elected officials and public health officials in most states insisted on drastic lockdown measures to combat COVID-19. Our leaders in the 1950s and 1960s were wise enough to understand that, all things considered, drastic lockdown measures would cause more damage and human suffering than the pandemics would cause. They understood that such a “cure” would be worse than the disease. |
14th June 2020, 06:41 AM | #856 |
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In other words, we will get to that level. The dying hasn't stopped and won't stop. As many people who died of Asian flu, per capita, will die of COVID-19, and that's with the lockdowns.
In the spirit of this thread, I won't go into too much argument about whether the lockdowns were a good idea or a bad idea. In part, that's because I think it's still too early to say. For this thread, I'll just note that I think your comments will be the Republican spin going into November. I don't think it's a winning issue for Trump, though. Whether you think the lockdowns were too much, or whether you think they ended too soon, there wasn't a clear message coming from the White House either way. We know that he always wanted to open up early, and yet his official statements didn't always support that. He seemed to change direction a lot. He seemed more interested in his ratings than in providing a clear message. He was giving daily briefings, which I think were appropriate, but they abruptly stopped when he got lambasted for misspeaking about the "disinfectant". It made him look pouty. He couldn't take the heat, so he just retreated. It seems to me that if the disease does not come roaring back, his supporters will say, "See I told you so." His foes will say, "The lockdown prevented a catastrophe." What will those few people in the middle, who will decide the election, say? It's hard to tell, because there is still plenty of time between now and November, but I think they will feel that Trump's leadership was pretty ineffective. On the other hand, Trump is a good marketer. Maybe there's time to spin it and tell convincing yarn. |
14th June 2020, 06:53 AM | #857 |
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So far I don't think I've seen a single person wearing a mask that had a Trump logo on it. I imagine the rally next weekend will be a prime opportunity for sales of them. If any of the attendees wear masks at all.
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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14th June 2020, 06:55 AM | #858 |
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In the spirit of this thread, I headed over to townhall.com after writing my last reply. I hadn't done that in a while.
Covid was almost completely gone from the column titles. The police related protests had captured all of the attention, but there was one column whose title spoke of Covid-19 experts not having any credibility. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...ruins-n2570597 I opened it up, and it was mostly a George Floyd piece. The main topic was where were all the people complaining about social distancing during the riots and demonstrations? They've got a point to be honest. A week before there was a viral video of a party in the Missouri Ozarks, complete with lots of shaming of party goers in these pages and elsewhere. There wasn't nearly as much shaming of the demonstrators. However, when Trump scheduled a campaign rally, the shamers were back. I think the column was exaggerating. Despite what the column said, there was a lot of concern expressed about virus spreading during the demonstrations. On the other hand, it wasn't nearly as fierce, and there wasn't the "shaming" element that there had been criticizing anti-lockdown protests or even just the Ozark parties and similar incidents. However, while I think the columnist exaggerated, as columnists frequently do, he had a point. |
14th June 2020, 07:01 AM | #859 |
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This is slightly a diversion in this thread, but I read a really good piece at "The Motley Fool", of all places, about lockdowns. Specifically, it was about why the lockdowns will not return. It was free from political vitriol. They try to avoid that sort of thing. Basically, there were three points.
1. We now have testing that will help mitigate the spread of the virus, which we did not have as the virus spread through the population. 2. We are now wearing masks and practicing some social distancing, which mitigates the spread of the virus. 3. They're too expensive. I agree with the piece, but in my opinion, point number 1, while true, isn't "true enough". Yes, we've made progress, but we should have made more, and, once more, in my opinion, the reason we didn't is that there was always this right wing narrative that concerns about the virus were overblown. (My boss actually called it a hoax this week.) |
14th June 2020, 08:13 AM | #860 |
Illuminator
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The differences between COVID-19 and these other flu pandemics you cited are a) bad news media and b) better elected officials?
There are a few other differences you conveniently left out. We had much more natural resistance to influenza, with the population having been exposed over the last several thousand years. In addition, flu vaccines were invented in the 1930s; 1942 saw the inactivated influenza B vaccine. The ease of transmission is higher for COVID-19 than previous flu strains.. The number of serious cases is higher for COVID-19 than previous flu strains. Why would you think the reaction to COVID-19 should be the same as for the cited flu pandemics? |
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"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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18th June 2020, 11:36 AM | #861 |
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Over at townhall.com today, it seems like the pro-Trump media is going with the "testing causes coronavirus" theory.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...antis-n2570814 To be fair, the article makes a point that is worth making. If you see a rapid jump in the number of cases, but no corresponding jump in the number of hospitalizations or deaths, then it seems reasonable that the jump in reported cases may be because more cases are being confirmed by testing. The previous undercounts are being corrected. Curiously, the article emphasizes hospitalizations rather than deaths. If what is happening in Florida is really that more asymptomatic or low-symptom cases are being detected, we won't see a gigantic jump. Stay tuned. |
18th June 2020, 11:58 AM | #862 |
Maledictorian
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Did they mention the Excess Mortality?
There are strong indications that Red States have started to count deaths from Covid as something else, such as pneumonia. |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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18th June 2020, 12:21 PM | #863 |
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18th June 2020, 05:22 PM | #864 |
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And, as if on cue,
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ic...?ocid=msedgdhp It seems that in Florida, the number of available beds in ICU units is dropping, because those beds are being taken up by Covid patients. It's almost as if the townhall.com guy was wrong. How could that be? |
20th June 2020, 06:59 AM | #865 |
Penultimate Amazing
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What Are Trump Supporters Saying about Covid-19?
In Oklahoma in about a week or so many of them will be saying, "cough...cough, cough, cough...cough". |
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Ashley Babbit was a good start. |
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20th June 2020, 07:39 AM | #866 |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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20th June 2020, 08:02 AM | #867 |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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20th June 2020, 08:05 AM | #868 |
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The thing is, with this disease, the effects will be small enough that no one will be able to point and say, "See I told you so."
The day before yesterday (the last day I looked), there were 450 new cases in Oklahoma. That's the most ever, by far. The population of Oklahoma is about 4,000,000. That means that that day, about 1 in 8,000 people showed positive for the first time. That would be 2-3 people in that crowd of 19,000 anticipated. It isn't very many people, when all is said and done. It's not like the handful of pre-symptomatic people in the crowd are going to infect all 19,000 in attendance. ETA: What really bugs me about Trump's handling of all this is that he can't come out and say, "It really sucks that some people are going to die from this disease, but that's better than living in isolation and loneliness. We're opening up. Good luck." Instead, there has to be denialism. The people who are afraid of the disease have to exaggerate how bad it is, and the people who want to end restrictions have to deny how bad it is. If there was a guy at the top who could be realistic, instead of taking up the denialism banner, it would be a lot easier to formulate balanced policies that would reduce risk but not keep us isolated. |
20th June 2020, 08:31 AM | #869 |
Philosopher
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I found something new. I'd give a description, but words escape me at the moment.
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20th June 2020, 08:33 AM | #870 |
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20th June 2020, 08:41 AM | #871 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You really need to click on that link! I don't want to spoil it, but just in case, I'll put the description in a spoiler.
I wonder how many at that rally, some of whom have been in line for a couple of days, are wearing that garment under their clothes. |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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20th June 2020, 09:03 AM | #872 |
Illuminator
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"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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20th June 2020, 11:26 AM | #873 |
NWO Litter Technician
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When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips
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20th June 2020, 11:41 AM | #874 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I've made no secret of the fact that I think Trump supporters are stupid. This guy just reinforces that. Six Trump staffers in Tulsa have tested positive for the virus. The state has had a record numbers of cases in the last several days. In what intelligent mind does going to see Trump in person outweigh the chances of not only getting Covid 19 yourself, but infecting your family and friends? When you or someone you love becomes seriously ill or even dies, was seeing Dear Leader in person worth it? I just don't get what explanation for this choice can be presented other than they are just plain idiots.
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20th June 2020, 03:08 PM | #875 | |||
Woof!
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Actually, it kind of is. Check out the 2:38 mark here:
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Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra |
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20th June 2020, 03:58 PM | #876 |
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Thanks for posting the time stamp. Much easier to find the important point. What I meant by not many people is not enough to show up in the statistics as something traceable to the Trump rally. I looked at the video. What I noticed, on the card in the background, was that they started with a baseline of 100 infected people attending the rally. That seems high, based on the numbers of recent infections in Oklahoma. Their follow on calculations also seem to exaggerate. Make no mistake. I think it's bad news to have this rally, but in truth, individual, large public gatherings haven't been followed by spikes in cases. Here in Michigan there were the gun-toting morons protesting the shutdown. It wasn't followed by a huge spike in cases. We had the George Floyd demonstrations. No spike in cases there. (Those demonstrations did have a higher degree of mask use, but they were larger.) If we have a big cluster of cases coming up in Tulsa, and we see that attendance at the rally was a common factor, you can bet it will make the news. |
20th June 2020, 04:10 PM | #877 |
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You cannot take the fact that most people took precautions and drove the case rate down to prove reckless behavior didn't cause any spread.
Only a few hundred attended at most (the 3000 person one was about driving around causing traffic delays). A few hundred people in a state with 10 million won't noticably move the data much. That doesn't mean it didn't contribute in causing new cases. |
20th June 2020, 04:57 PM | #878 |
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Trump's unpopularity may be saving the lives of his supporters. The 19,000-capacity rally arena is just a little over half full right now and the event has already begun.
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20th June 2020, 04:58 PM | #879 |
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20th June 2020, 05:04 PM | #880 |
Illuminator
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We'll still have these people around after the election. They will be even madder, and resist even more any gubmint interruption in their lives. President Biden has his work cut out for him.
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