|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
20th July 2018, 04:18 AM | #201 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
Trump doesn't even like stenographers at his meetings. There was an article about it recently with an ex-stenographer. IIRC, it was said that Trump doesn't want to be reminded of what people actually said, he wants to remember whatever he thinks was said.
But the thing here for me is that if there really is a Russian recording, and if Trump really did do or say anything he shouldn't have (which, let's be honest, he probably did), then whether or not Putin had Kompromat on Trump before the meeting is moot, because he does now. |
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
20th July 2018, 04:21 AM | #202 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
I think that perhaps an interesting question is why Putin allowed a US translator to be there, if anything compromising was said. Putin speaks English - allegedly well enough to correct translators. So it doesn't seem that one was actually needed in order to communicate.
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
20th July 2018, 04:59 AM | #203 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 37,581
|
|
20th July 2018, 05:47 AM | #204 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,557
|
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
20th July 2018, 05:49 AM | #205 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 37,581
|
|
20th July 2018, 06:45 AM | #206 |
NWO Litter Technician
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 15,161
|
|
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips
|
|
20th July 2018, 06:48 AM | #207 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
20th July 2018, 08:18 AM | #208 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
|
|
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
|
20th July 2018, 08:26 AM | #209 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,208
|
|
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" |
|
20th July 2018, 08:42 AM | #210 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 10,678
|
I've been thinking much the same thing. I think that it's quite worth asking the person to recount the meeting for the sake of things like understanding what agreements Trump's choosing to make that are absolutely required for things to function, but not to give undue trust to what's said. I would suggest demanding that Congress pointedly craft a law disallowing this from being doable in the future, either way.
|
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
|
20th July 2018, 08:53 AM | #211 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,123
|
|
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader 'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin |
|
20th July 2018, 09:15 AM | #212 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 25,102
|
|
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
|
20th July 2018, 09:19 AM | #213 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
Long-time State Dept. employee. But, interestingly, some translators say that they concentrate so much on translating the words at the moment that have limited memory of the conversation.
Quote:
The real issue is that even in a private meeting or phone call, there is customarily a notetaker documenting the conversation. What is Trump's protection that Putin couldn't make a false claim? Maybe Trump feels that any lie Putin tells couldn't be as damaging as the recorded truth. |
20th July 2018, 09:50 AM | #214 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
|
|
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
|
20th July 2018, 11:31 AM | #215 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
|
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
20th July 2018, 11:33 AM | #216 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
|
|
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
|
20th July 2018, 03:00 PM | #217 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
20th July 2018, 05:52 PM | #218 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
21st July 2018, 01:53 AM | #219 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
21st July 2018, 09:47 PM | #220 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
They both had their own translators. You may recall a kerfuffle when Trump met Putin at a conference with only a Russian translator, no Americans present at all. At least he didn't make that mistake this time.
Quote:
|
22nd July 2018, 02:43 AM | #221 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,097
|
|
22nd July 2018, 02:55 AM | #222 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 10,678
|
|
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
|
22nd July 2018, 03:01 AM | #223 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
22nd July 2018, 03:12 AM | #224 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 31,644
|
|
__________________
OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
|
22nd July 2018, 05:23 AM | #225 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
22nd July 2018, 05:42 AM | #226 |
Proud Award Award recipient
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 3,018
|
|
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan |
|
22nd July 2018, 07:19 AM | #227 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
22nd July 2018, 08:14 AM | #228 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 29,368
|
|
__________________
Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
|
22nd July 2018, 08:38 AM | #229 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,092
|
|
22nd July 2018, 09:22 AM | #230 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,328
|
|
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard |
|
24th July 2018, 02:42 AM | #231 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
|
https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/...71179138764801
Quote:
|
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
|
24th July 2018, 06:22 AM | #232 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 23,499
|
Your understanding is correct. As a rule, you only translate into your native tongue, not any other.
That said, at need, one could translate from mother tongue to another language, but that is regarded as unprofessional. To be avoided unless there are no other options, or acceptable in casual conversation. How do I know this? My sister is 30 years a professional translator. She collects translation clangers for laughs. The problem is always idioms that are normal to every language. For an apropos example, the simple english phrase "out of sight, out of mind" was translate from english to russian and then from russian back to english. The result was the phrase "invisible lunatic". While that has a certain strange logic to it, clearly the idiom has literally been lost in translation. And don't ask for a reference. That one dates back to the '90s so no hope of that. |
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
|
24th July 2018, 11:54 AM | #233 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
That may be an urban legend. Here's the same story, except the language is Japanese. https://talesfromthemindofkristian.w...re-than-words/ In a case where both sides have translators, the translators themselves will consult each other about slang and idioms. Even British and American English have some disparities. A Russian translator trained in British English might not grasp Trumpisms without some help from the American. |
24th July 2018, 12:39 PM | #234 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
24th July 2018, 12:53 PM | #235 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
|
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
24th July 2018, 01:20 PM | #236 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
If the Dems succeed in taking back either or both houses of Congress, he can say it was because of Russian meddling. Of course, their meddling didn't help him in 2016...
His base supporters believe everything he says. Those with an IQ slightly higher know he lies. They just don't care because he going to "MAGA". |
24th July 2018, 01:32 PM | #237 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
Let's not dismiss this scenario too easily.
Russian intelligence may very well work to carry this out, if only to muddy the waters even more. Putin always has a bag of tricks he's used for decades, and Americans keep falling for it because for most people, every action is relatively cut and dried, with no deeper method. A lot of Trump's opponents' collusion jokes for instance; Trump meeting his handler or his boss, "collusion in plain sight", may not be so plain. |
24th July 2018, 01:38 PM | #238 |
Papa Funkosophy
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,263
|
|
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
|
24th July 2018, 01:57 PM | #239 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
|
|
24th July 2018, 02:03 PM | #240 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,800
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|