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10th November 2019, 11:34 PM | #201 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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And as I noted, I find that particular kind of literary license to be problematic, given that it gets important things wrong and does it in a way that supports known misinformation.
Again, this is Trump. "Outrageous" likely isn't the right word. And, to be clear, I respect Comey's stated position there. With that said, there is a substantial difference between dismissing something out of hand, which is exactly what you're saying that you did, reserving judgement until such time as more evidence is added to the equation, which is more along the lines of what Comey stated he did for the Dossier (and I did), and just believing something based on that alone, which quite seems to be what you're characterizing as the position that anyone who didn't immediately dismiss it out of hand is taking. Going further, when you claim that Comey first believed that the Steele Dossier could be true when Trump asked him to disprove it all, that's painting a substantially different picture from what Comey stated, which you're now walking back a little. Either way, when it comes to discussion about how likely that particular bit of raw intelligence actually is, it's worth poking at that little thing in the Mueller Report where we have a Russian claiming that he's stopped the tapes from spreading. Also, Trump's numerous and demonstrated lies in his defense. Certainly not proof in and of itself, but it's certainly enough that the tapes story probably shouldn't be just assumed to be false. |
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11th November 2019, 02:53 AM | #202 |
Fiend God
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11th November 2019, 08:36 AM | #203 |
Penultimate Amazing
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11th November 2019, 08:46 AM | #204 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Fascinating. The Justice Dept is investigating the origins of the investigation into Trump. If this investigation fails to deliver, will you re-assess?
Even if I accept this spectacular CT at face value, there are still glaring problems, such as the infamous Trump Tower meeting with Russian operatives, and Trump's lies attempting to explain said meeting. At the very least, this lays to waste "entirely". |
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12th November 2019, 08:33 PM | #205 |
Critical Thinker
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This is an interesting statement: "The man who made sure the investigations into Trump would go on after he met with Trump..."
The FBI's Crossfire Hurricane was a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation. A counterintelligence investigation is to gather information on foreign threats pertaining to national security. It was not an investigation into Trump, but supposedly an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. James Comey had assured Trump three times that he was not personally under investigation. The first time was during their first meeting on January 6th, 2017. He briefed Trump on some of the more salacious claims in the yet un-published dossier. Then again on January 27th and lastly on March 30th. From James Comey's testimony on June 8th, 2017: COLLINS: There was the March 30th phone call with the president in which you reminded him that congressional leaders had been briefed that we were no personally — the FBI was not personally investigating president trump. And, again, was that statement to congressional leaders and to the president limited to counterintelligence investigations, or was it a broader statement? I'm trying to understand whether there was any kind of investigation of the president underway. COMEY: No. I'm sorry. If I misunderstood, I apologize. We briefed the congressional leadership about what Americans we had opened counterintelligence investigation cases on. We specifically said, the president is not one of those Americans. But there was no other investigation of the president that we were not mentioning at that time. The context was, counterintelligence, but I wasn't trying to hide some criminal investigation of the president. COLLINS: And was the president under investigation at the time of your dismissal on May 9th? COMEY: No. So according to James Comey, Trump was not under investigation when Comey was dismissed. Now I understand that many Americans thought that Trump was under investigation at this time. This was due to all the classified information being linked to the press about Trump and his contacts with Russia ad infinitum. It was creating a cloud over his Presidency. He wanted James Comey to state publicly what he was telling Trump privately, that he personally was not under investigation. Comey refused and Trump said, "You're fired!" Of course, this plot by Comey and others to tell Trump that he was not personally under investigation was merely a tactic to keep the investigation going once Trump became President. It was always really a criminal investigation masquerading as a "counterintelligence" investigation. And how could firing Comey be obstruction if Comey assured him he wasn't under investigation? Rod Rosenstein then appointed Robert Mueller as Special Counsel so he could get back into the good graces of the fake news media. What experience does Mueller have in counterintelligence? What crimes were they tasked with investigating? None. It was an open ended fishing expedition. Or to be more blunt, the next phase of the coup attempt. Do you believe that Joseph Mifsud is really a Russian agent? The Trump tower meeting was arranged by Bob Goldstone, a British music publicist. They met with Natalia Veselnitskaya who strangely enough was also working with Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS. Small World!!! |
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12th November 2019, 08:50 PM | #206 |
Penultimate Amazing
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More fact-free gish gallop from 16.5 v2.0
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12th November 2019, 10:19 PM | #207 |
Penultimate Amazing
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What a moronic and stupid CT post. Trump is a lying dishonest POS. And yet you just eat it up and go yummie. Seriously, why would you EVER believe someone who over the last 30 years has proven he is incapable of telling the truth? He screams FAKE NEWS and you eat it up. What if he said LUGENPRESSE? You dismiss Comey a lifetime Federal Law Enforcement officer and take the word of a carnival barker? The media is all lying. The cops are all lying. The ambassadors are all lying. Trump said he didn't know the two Russians associates of Giuliani and yet they met with Trump at least 10 times. Is the press lying about that? Everyone is lying but the biggest liar of all. What we get from Trump is disinformation diarrhea. Me, I don't eat ****. I really don't understand your entire CT post. Rob Goldstone was saying he had dirt on Hillary Clinton from Russia and Jr and his father were thrilled to get.any and all they could get and could care about where they came from. We'll never know what really went on during the Trump tower meeting only the bs fed to us by Trump and his cabal. McCabe thought that Trump was acting incredibly guilty about Russia and 20 years of law enforcement experience kicked in. McCabe knew they were investigating Russia. That doesn't mean they were investigating Trump. They were investigating Russian involvement in the election. But obviously McCabe knew there were Trump connections. There is no dispute that there was...other than the swill that Trump was peddling. Trump has been feeding the world this moronic paranoid conspiracy theory that the FBI was out to get him from the very beginning. Yet the facts show they just followed the leads. And the biggest lead of all is Trump and his behavior. As you said, Trump asked Comey multiple times if they were investigating him. If he didn't do anything wrong why is he so concerned? Then he fires Comey to halt the investigation. Then Trump undermines the investigation. Over and over and over and over, Trump does what a guilty person would do but it's the cops problem for being suspicious? After the firing Comey, McCabe takes over and immediately Trump in his way is suggesting the McCabe should parrot Trump's lies about Comey. Gee, you think asking a 20 year veteran police officer with an impeccable record you just met to lie is a good idea? It comes down to this. You see, I cannot trust Trump. Because well, he's untrustworthy. |
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13th November 2019, 12:43 AM | #208 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Right on the money! If Trump was 100% innocent as he claims, and the victim of a plot to overthrow him as he claims, he would welcome these investigations; he would instruct his aides and the people around him to comply with all the subpoenas and to go to Congress and testify to what a fine chap he is, and how he has done nothing wrong or illegal. But that is not what he has done is it? He has obstructed these investigations in every possible way he can. People who obstruct investigations into themselves are de-facto displaying a consciousness of guilt in foot-high capital letters - literally screaming their guilt from the rooftops. |
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13th November 2019, 01:11 AM | #209 |
Maledictorian
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Mueller's defenders always say he does things "by the book".
But that depends on which book we are talking about, doesn't it? In the case of the Report, Mueller certainly didn't take a page out of the Nixon or Clinton Impeachment investigations. |
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13th November 2019, 11:37 AM | #210 |
Philosopher
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13th November 2019, 12:39 PM | #211 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Location: Canada, eh?
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Well for one, the Kenneth Starr (both in the media and his report into Clinton) was a lot more direct about Clinton's legal issues and how to proceed with the impeachment.
Compare that to Mueller, and his "I did not exonerate" statement, or his statement about Trump's truthfulness in his statements. If Mueller used the same tone that Starr did, he would have come right out and said "Trump committed perjury and obstructed justice." |
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13th November 2019, 01:17 PM | #212 |
Philosopher
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Remind me again what Starr was originally after and what they ended up impeaching him for.
His being super clear about it strikes me as his being super partisan about it and therefore not a standard to emulate. Basically all of the things Trump says about Mueller are close to how I see Starr's investigation. |
13th November 2019, 04:40 PM | #213 |
Penultimate Amazing
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13th November 2019, 08:19 PM | #214 |
Philosopher
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Oh come on, you know why.
And try to be a little more sympathetic. Imagine going to bed each night wondering what obnoxious lies you may have to be on board with tomorrow. Defending the indefensible at every turn, so much cognitive dissonance it makes your head hurt, constantly being attacked for having the courage to support our president no matter what - but this is what it takes to be a true patriot in today's America! |
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13th November 2019, 08:39 PM | #215 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I just can't find it in my heart to be sympathetic.
Although I guess it does look like Trump is going to win on dismantling DACA. And as much as I hate that he is doing it. I agree with the arguments his lawyers on this. Which might be a first. Usually, I'm shaking my head. |
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15th November 2019, 07:02 AM | #216 |
Penultimate Amazing
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15th November 2019, 07:45 AM | #217 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I get into this same conundrum with the the religious. And I'm never satisfied with the answers. It's one thing to believe something when there is no evidence either way. But to hang on to that belief despite a mountain of evidence contradicting it has always flabbergasted me.
And maybe it's just me but I can't bear conning myself and it's worse than unbearable to say out loud what I find tenuous. I've never made up my mind whether these people really believe the nonsense or are just unwilling to face the consequence of having to deal with reality. It's like this. I called myself a Christian for 30 years although I never really believed. There were consequences to saying I'm not a believer. So I didn't. For these people who supported Trump, I don't think they believe Trump didn't do something wrong, they just don't want to face the facts and the consequences that he did. |
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16th November 2019, 11:41 AM | #218 |
Critical Thinker
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You had stated, "The man who made sure the investigations into Trump would go on after he met with Trump..."
I pointed out that, according to Jim Comey, that Trump was not personally under investigation when he was dismissed. Now instead of being appreciative of the fact that I pointed out an error in your statement, you decided to launch into another fact-free anti-Trump screed; Orangeman bad, FBI good. I've learned that Skeptoids and Leftoids don't like their bubbles burst with the Truth. The Don Jr. meeting certainly does elicit a lot of faux outrage amongst the Left. But what doesn't elicit any outrage at all? Holier-than-thou-art Adam Schiff tried to get dirt on Trump from foreign sources(Russian comedians) which he thought was real. Caller: Yes, absolutely. And she got compromising materials on Trump after their short relations. Schiff: Okay. And what’s the nature of the Kompromat? Caller: Well, there were pictures of naked Trump. Schiff: Okay. And so Putin was made aware of the availability of the comprising material? Caller: Yes, of course... Caller: Yes. On that meeting, Ukupnik told Flynn that all those compromising materials will never be released if Trump will cancel all the Russian sanctions. Schiff: Okay. Well, obviously, we would welcome the chance to get copies of those recordings. So we will try to work with the FBI to figure out along with your staff how we can obtain copies of those. Obviously no one on the Left is outraged about Deep State snake Schiff asking for kompromat on Trump from foreign sources. Neither are they outraged by the Steele dossier which has Russian sources too. But if a Republican does something like this it is treason. If McCabe thought Trump was acting guilty then his instincts weren't very good because there was no Trump-Russia collusion. And I thought we were supposed to investigate people based off evidence, not feelings? The FBI was out to get him from the beginning. Haven't you read the Lisa Page and Peter Strzok texts? Page: “God trump is a loathsome human….omg he’s an idiot.” “He’s awful,” Strzok replied. What leads did they follow? The best leads to have followed would have been to simply verify the sources listed in the Steele dossier and interview them. This should have been easy as Christopher Steele was an FBI informant. Yet there is no indication they did any of this. They did not follow leads, they manufactured them. Trump was concerned because the press was reporting on his ties to Russia. The media was creating the impression that Trump was under investigation when according to Comey, he wasn't. The New York Times reported on March 20th 2017: F.B.I. Is Investigating Trump’s Russia Ties, Comey Confirms. Yet Comey stated that Trump was not under investigation at the time of his dismissal. So the media is saying one thing and Comey is saying something else. Trump wanted Comey to clarify the nature of the investigation. Comey refused to do this because it wasn't an investigation. It was a coup attempt. So Comey was fired. We know this isn't true because Trump wasn't guilty. The fact that he was "acting guilty" was just more manufactured fake news. Why should Trump welcome an investigation manufactured by his political opponents over a crime he did not commit? Can we just go around investigating anyone without probable cause? It sounds like you are advocating for a police-state society. Let's bring the full power and resources of the surveillance state and law enforcement down on our political enemies. Also the "investigation" was not obstructed. Robert Mueller even stated this in this testimony. |
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16th November 2019, 12:13 PM | #219 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Wow! Just how many things are wong with this post. To start with. A law enforcement officer DOESN'T have to inform a suspect whether or not they are investigating him even if that suspect is the president. And it was well known that the FBI and the CIA had been investigating Russian involvement in our elections before the election. If the President did nothing wrong and the press was wrongly reporting he was being investigated, you would think he'd rather a full investigation and having the FBI announced that he had nothing to do with it. Keep in mind Comey is a Republican and not HIS political opponent. Trump most likely wouldn't even be President if not for his interference.
What is he worried about? Also, Mueller did not find there was no collusion, only that he couldn't prove that there was. Huge difference. As for Page and Strozk, what makes you think a law enforcement officer can't dislike a suspect and still follow the evidence and the law? |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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16th November 2019, 01:04 PM | #220 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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To poke at a little bit of what's so utterly wrong with your claims...
Funny how you ignore this very, very important thing, which gets right to the heart of the issues at hand. Schiff made it perfectly clear that he fully intended to abide by the law and work with law enforcement to make sure everything done would abide by the law. Trump made it fully clear that he had no intention of abiding by the law or working with law enforcement and, in fact, didn't abide by it. Then, of course, there's the question of who, exactly, is involved and the nature of the interaction. Was Schiff soliciting this from a foreign government, for example? Sure doesn't look like it. Your attempted equivalence just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe, just maybe, try to understand the actual concepts in play, rather than the gross caricatures of the concepts that the GOP and Russian propagandists forward as they try to distract and distort? LOL! Perhaps you don't realize how utterly stupid this attempt at an argument is? Even before we get to the obvious cherry-picking, you're trying to claim that the personal opinion of two individuals is proof of professional misconduct by an entire agency. Professional misconduct that's in the exact opposite direction as the misconduct by the FBI that actually happened in reality. Ahh, the joys of Republican projection, where the weak on crime Democrats actually want a police state to attack their political enemies. Never mind that the Republicans are the ones that have been pushing police state policies and have been openly doing their best to use the judicial system to attack their enemies for brazenly political purposes. That the DOJ failed to get a grand jury to indict McCabe is quite telling there, before getting to the rest of the BS that the Republicans have been engaging in. Except for the parts where he made it pretty clear that it was. Still, congratulations for actually getting me to bite at your parade of nonsense. You've confirmed yet again that you can safely be ignored, either way. Are you actually a reverse troll, though? One who's trying to make Trump supporters look like total idiots? |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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16th November 2019, 02:28 PM | #221 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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17th November 2019, 06:32 AM | #222 |
Fiend God
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17th November 2019, 11:32 AM | #223 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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17th November 2019, 12:33 PM | #224 |
Banned
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17th November 2019, 12:39 PM | #225 |
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17th November 2019, 02:38 PM | #226 |
Critical Thinker
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This is correct. A law enforcement officer is not required to inform a suspect that he is under criminal investigation. The best course of action would be not to say anything. The point is that James Comey DID say to Trump that he was NOT under investigation. Once he makes a declarative statement on the matter it becomes relevant.
Yes, Crossfire Hurricane started officially on July 31st, 2016. It was a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal one. The media was reporting that the FBI was investigating Trump, while he received assurances from Comey that he was not under investigation. If there were leaks from the FBI to the press that were false then it would be the responsibility of the FBI director to clear that up, not the President. Why couldn't Comey just announce publicly that these media reports were false and the President is not under investigation? It was the Mueller investigation that corrected Buzzfeed's erroneous report indicating that Trump had instructed Michael Cohen to lie. If there were false reports indicating that Trump was under investigation, Comey should have corrected those. He didn't ps. And the investigation did go forward. Mueller and his team spent almost two years investigating every part of Trump's campaign and came up with a big fat zero. You only need probable cause to indict. You need 'beyond a reasonable doubt' to convict. No one on Trump's team was even indicted for collusion. Let's get one thing out of the way up front. It is not illegal to get dirt from foreign sources on your political opponent. It is only illegal if you are involved in a criminal conspiracy of some kind.(i.e You assist in the hacking of information.) That is why this entire conversation is ridiculous. The Left wants to give the impression that getting dirt from foreign sources is criminal or an impeachable offensive, but only when Republicans do it. When Democrats do it, it is perfectly fine. If Don Jr had received dirt on Hillary from Russian sources then decided to approach the FBI their response would have been, "Now we have proof you were colluding with the Russians. It is jail time for Don Jr!" The FBI were co-conspirators in a plot to spy-on and then launch a coup to overthrow the Trump presidency. The FBI was not to be trusted. Page: God trump is a loathsome human. Strzok: Omg an idiot Page: He's awful Strzok: God Hillary should win 100,000,000 - 0 Page: “He's not ever going to become president, right? Right?!” Strzok: “No. No he won’t. We’ll stop it.” Page: “There is no way he gets elected.” Strzok: "I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy's office that there's no way he gets elected — but I'm afraid we can't take that risk. It's like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you're 40…." An insurance policy does not prevent a disaster from occurring. It is a hedge in case a disaster does happen. The disaster, of course, to Strzok and Page was Trump being elected President. Then on election day the paramours went completely off the rails. Strzok: Omg this is ******ng terrifying Page: Figure I need to brush up on Watergate. Why does Lisa Page need to brush up on Watergate unless she is looking for a way to impeach a duly elected President that she hates? They could call upon the "insurance policy" to hamstring the President or launch a coup to overthrow his Presidency. This is what happened. p.s. The fact the FBI signed off on the FISA application for Carter Page is evidence of endemic corruption. See Anarcho-tyranny. What was the origin of the FBI's Crossfire Hurricane investigation? Was it the Steele dossier or George Papadopoulos's meeting with Joseph Mifsud? Currently, the latter story is the official one. So if they determine that Joseph Mifsud is really a Russian agent privy to the goings on of Russian intelligence, then yes, I will reevaluate. But I want answers on international man of mystery Mifsud. |
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17th November 2019, 02:48 PM | #227 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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17th November 2019, 04:17 PM | #228 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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17th November 2019, 05:39 PM | #229 |
Becoming Beth
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If it were only Trump I might feel a tiny bit better about it, but the near unanimity with which the GOP leaders as well as theirrank and file, Trump supporters in general, and the media outlets hitched to his wagon repeat, expand upon, and fabricate even wilder lies on his behalf is something which might transcend traditional pols lying to the public. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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17th November 2019, 06:04 PM | #230 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You see, that's not exactly true. There have been lots of GOP leaders say almost nothing and have quit the party as well as basically just quit. Trump has a core of supporters that are probably never going to abandon him. But I am convinced he's lost more than enough support to make what for other politicians would be an easy reelection into a GOP wipeout.
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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17th November 2019, 07:54 PM | #231 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The ability of Trump's Little helpers to repeatedly gish-gallop screeds of total bollocks they have gleaned from their right wing echo chambers, is truly astounding.
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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17th November 2019, 10:59 PM | #232 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
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Perhaps think back to the actual points made about what what actually wrong? For example, Trump repeatedly tried to obtain illegally obtained materials from the Russian government and outright asked the Russians to commit crimes to aid him on national television (and made it perfectly clear that he wasn't joking about that when interviewed right after). Crimes that they immediately started trying to do. The main ridiculous thing about this conversation is the caricature of the problems identified that the GOP has been pushing as their propagandists have gone all in with a strategy of lying about, distorting, and distracting from the actual things of importance.
That is a right-wing caricature of the truth. I touched on that a little above, but I'm going to be very clear here. These false equivalences and aspersions preached by the GOP propagandists are BS. That depends on what, exactly, Jr had done with it by then. Still, it's far, far more likely that the FBI would have given him the chance to mitigate/nullify the crime and exonerate himself, given the situation that they'd be facing there, even if they didn't just let him off the hook entirely and work with him to figure out what he was legally allowed to do. That is, of course, assuming that this was after his “If it’s what you say, I love it, especially later in the summer.” The actually appropriate course of action would be to contact the FBI about the offer in the first place and discuss the matter with them. To be quite clear, somewhat similar situations have happened in the past. Gore's campaign, for example, immediately took similar materials to the FBI. In a similar vein, in Georgia 2018, multiple outside parties contacted the campaign of Democrats about serious vulnerabilities in the election infrastructure. Instead of exploiting such to cheat, the Democrats took it to the FBI - and were nonsensically sued by the Georgia Republicans for doing the right thing. This doesn't pass even basic scrutiny, especially when it comes to basic questions like whether Jr (and Trump and every other one of those involved in the Trump Tower meeting and all the rest of the many connections with the Russians that the Trump campaign lied about repeatedly) would have had any reason to believe that the FBI wasn't to be trusted. Again, you're not addressing the points actually made. You're just adding more cherry-picked material that you think supports your narrative. Alternately, one could take a peek at Trump's long list of times when he has been documented to have broken the law, was continuing to break the law, his relationships with organized crime, and his demonstrated personality (I could go on, but any single one of those would be serious cause for concern, let alone all of them at once) and figure out the obvious truth that it was virtually certain that he would be committing crimes, some of which would be quite serious, while in office. Which, indeed, he has been, to virtually no one's surprise. No. It's really not, regardless of how much the GOP propagandists try to distort the picture and use it as a distraction. There are legitimate concerns to be raised when it comes to FISA in general, perhaps, but that the FBI signed off on the application for Carter Page is not one of them. Do you actually believe that Democrats support anarcho-tyranny? I'm generally a bit wary of citing the Daily Beast, but... here's a rather well-sourced article on Mifsud and his relations to Russia that you may find to be of some limited interest. Still, it's likely worth pointing out, yet again, that for the purposes here, whether Mifsud is or is not actually a Russian agent is a red herring. Rather, the question is whether the FBI had legitimate cause to investigate at all, given that they're not omniscient. With that said, signs point very, very firmly to them having legitimate cause. |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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17th November 2019, 11:26 PM | #233 |
Maledictorian
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What Republicans don't seem to get is that the risk to US democracy brought on by solicited interference by foreign actors is less about the wrong side being elected and more about having a government beholden to foreign interests.
Because Trump won in 2016 with help from Russia, he is constrained to act in the US national interest when it comes to Putin. The Trump Campaign should just have paid the Internet Research Agency for its work. |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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17th November 2019, 11:54 PM | #234 |
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 10,678
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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18th November 2019, 07:40 AM | #235 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
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Well, when someone stakes out a fact-free claim such as...
i could go on at great length. But alas "not a single bit was ever true". I have no choice but to sigh and move on when I encounter this impressive degree of fact-freedom. It's not as if a better presentation will make a whit of difference. |
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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18th November 2019, 08:38 AM | #236 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 7,870
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Not to mention...
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18th November 2019, 11:23 AM | #237 |
Becoming Beth
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of)
Posts: 27,292
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Express this as a percentage of GOP leaders, and then relate it to the highlighted word in my post. Sure, there are some GOP leaders who have recognized that they will probably get primaried as a penalty for a less-than-fulsome support of Trump, and even a few who are just too tired of the farce to continue to perpetuate it. Perhaps a vanishingly small number (by comparison to the total) who are sincerely disgusted with their party. But all of those combined still do not make a significant impact on the near unanimity I mentioned. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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18th November 2019, 11:27 AM | #238 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
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18th November 2019, 11:35 AM | #239 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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18th November 2019, 12:12 PM | #240 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
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Not sure if this should go here or under the 'impeachment inquiry' thread, since it may become part of the articles of impeachment...
From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/polit...ler/index.html The House of Representatives is now investigating whether President Donald Trump lied to special counsel Robert Mueller in written answers...Rick Gates testified that Trump and Stone talked about information that was coming that could help the campaign in mid-2016...Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort also apparently told the Mueller grand jury what Trump's approach to WikiLeaks had been in 2016, according to the Mueller report. But Trump told Mueller in his written statements he didn't recall discussing WikiLeaks with Stone. Now, its not that surprising that Trump would be accused of lying over the issue. (Even Mueller himself suggested Trump was "imprecise".. It is new for the house to actually engage in any sort of investigation. |
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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