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5th March 2020, 11:42 AM | #41 |
Penultimate Amazing
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To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
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5th March 2020, 11:54 AM | #42 |
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Regarding that meme you posted, honest question: Are you the gullible one or are you simply concerned that others will be particularly gullible with respect to Sanders? https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ders-socialis/ These lies can be spread about anyone, you know. |
5th March 2020, 11:56 AM | #43 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I am going to bell the cat here;
How many of the Bernie supporters here will vote for Biden in November is he gets the nomination? If not, why? |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th March 2020, 11:58 AM | #44 |
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I'm still suspicious of the fact that you never answered my question a few weeks ago: Would you vote for Bernie if he won the nomination? Don't expect an answer from me if you've demonstrated you can't reciprocate. I have no faith that you engage in good faith because of this. |
5th March 2020, 11:59 AM | #45 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th March 2020, 12:00 PM | #46 |
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You won't get a straight answer.
Because if Biden gets the nomination, that's just gonna be proof that the evil establishment DNC cheated Sanders. It's not that they won't vote for Biden if he becomes the... "rightful" (not the exact word I'm looking for but close) nominee, it's that they will never accept that he is the rightful nominee. Again I'd love an answer on how many current Sanders supporters buy into the "Sanders was cheated out of the 2016 nomination" conspiracy theory. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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5th March 2020, 12:01 PM | #47 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th March 2020, 12:02 PM | #48 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th March 2020, 12:06 PM | #49 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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5th March 2020, 12:14 PM | #50 |
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Of course they didn't.
But sometimes you want revenge on the people who wronged you. Sometime you want spite (whatever the proper noun form of spite would be in that sentence) on the people who still have it good after you've failed. Sometimes you want to win. Sometimes you want to make sure everyone loses. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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5th March 2020, 12:14 PM | #51 |
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5th March 2020, 12:14 PM | #52 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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5th March 2020, 12:15 PM | #53 |
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5th March 2020, 12:27 PM | #54 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't think that's true. SNL, the Daily Show, and John Oliver have been cracking on him nonstop for three years, and his approval ratings haven't moved at all.
Also, remember that Obama laughing at him is how we got here in the first place. No, I think laughing at him is probably not the best weapon. Or, if your best weapon either does nothing or just makes him stronger, then you're pretty much screwed. |
5th March 2020, 12:29 PM | #55 |
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"When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots. |
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5th March 2020, 12:31 PM | #56 |
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"When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots. |
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5th March 2020, 12:31 PM | #57 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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5th March 2020, 12:36 PM | #58 |
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"When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots. |
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5th March 2020, 12:39 PM | #59 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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5th March 2020, 12:39 PM | #60 |
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"When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots. |
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5th March 2020, 12:45 PM | #61 |
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The idea that they have all just given up hoping and looking for a better life and are acting purely out of hate and spite is offensive dehumanization. That and wrong unless 3/4 of the people I come across are lying to me and/or are a statistically implausible anomaly. |
5th March 2020, 01:00 PM | #62 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Maybe. But then, remember, one of the reasons why Clinton ended up losing to Trump is because many former Obama voters decided to stay home in the 2016 general election.
Now, this group of non-voters is not monolithic, and I'm sure there are multiple reasons why they sat out in 2016 (thought hillary was guaranteed to win, disliked both candidates, didn't recognize how bad Trump was). But for some of them, the question is will it motivate them to come out to vote in 2020 if you concentrate on "Trump the comic Troll" as opposed to "Trump the man who is risking your lives and jobs". |
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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5th March 2020, 01:02 PM | #63 |
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Quibbling. There was a lack of response to the dumping of cheap foreign steel and that is what killed most of the domestic steel industry. Nothing was done about other plants moving overseas for cheap labor, etc.
This was the sort of thing that labor Democrats expected the party to do something about. They didn't, which is hard to not see as a betrayal, or at least failure. Trump's promises to fix this by making the best deals was obviously stupid, but at least it was tangible. |
5th March 2020, 01:07 PM | #64 |
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5th March 2020, 01:08 PM | #65 |
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In my opinion Biden is a terrible candidate but I would still vote for him.
However, after this election that will no longer be the case. I'm not going to keep supporting awful candidates in perpetuity because the other side is worse. I want good candidates with integrity that will move the country forward |
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Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them. |
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5th March 2020, 01:10 PM | #66 |
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Yeah.
The idea that some voter is sitting at home enjoying a grilled cheese watching some TV and an ad comes on about Trump saying some bigoted nonsense which causes that voter to go "Wow, Trump is an *******. Better not vote for him!!!" is SNL skit territory. It isn't that Trump being a moron doesn't hurt him, it is that the return from that message diminished to zero a very long time ago. Sure, bring it up once in a while as a reminder, but if that is all they have, they are basically masturbating. |
5th March 2020, 01:26 PM | #67 |
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5th March 2020, 01:31 PM | #68 |
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It’s Mocha Joe vs Latte Larry
(Curb reference) |
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Слава Україні! **** Putin! |
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5th March 2020, 01:31 PM | #69 |
Penultimate Amazing
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And they are never coming back. If every factory that moved overseas came back to the US, they would only employ a small number of the people they once employed because of Automation. The main job of a human on a assemblyline nowdays is just supervising the machines that are doing the actual manufacturing. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th March 2020, 01:47 PM | #70 |
Penultimate Amazing
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A Republican woman on CNN just now who voted for Trump says she would vote for Biden if he gets the nomination this time. She's not comfortable with Sanders 'socialism'.
I think more Republicans and Independents who voted for Trump last time but are not happy with him now would vote for Biden but not Sanders. |
5th March 2020, 01:51 PM | #71 |
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5th March 2020, 01:55 PM | #72 |
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Every election we do this.
"We'll envigorate a whole bunch of voters! No need to appeal to any fence sitters or moderates from the other side, in fact we'll actively push them away. Nope we're gonna have so many new people, especially those young folks voting, that we won't need any of their dirty, rotten votes." Here's reality. Within a few piddling percent points one way or the other the people who voted in 2016 are gonna be the same people who voted in 2020. If the Democrats cannot drag at least some voters over from the Trump side they will lose because there is not some untapped ground swell of people who the idea of voting just haven't occurred to them. There's exceptions in the margins to be sure; felons are a prime case and all or any of them might happen (to cut off the "bUt U kAnt nO thAt 4 suRE!") but it's insane to count on them as your primary strategy. Prove you're voting block, then you get catered to. It can't happen in reverse. |
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5th March 2020, 01:56 PM | #73 |
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Sure. The problem is...
Trump: Those jobs can come back. I make the best deals. Look at this mostly deceiving example that you don't have the time or inclination to fact check. Winning!! Biden: Trump is lying. I have some ideas about targeted tax credits that I can't explain very clearly. Sanders: We need to put better labor protection in place. There is no reason the jobs that are out there now shouldn't be as stable and rewarding as those manufacturing jobs, and with universal heath care you will be better able to change jobs and maybe work for yourself without the uncertainty and burden of worrying about medical insurance. I don't know which is the easiest to sell. Sadly, probably Trump's view. I do know which is the worst. Nobody really liked working in the mill. All I heard growing up was to do well in school so I didn't have to dress up like a baked potato and run around the BOP. It was the money and dignity that went with it that is missed, and that is more about organized labor than the nature of the work. |
5th March 2020, 01:58 PM | #74 |
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I just knew it would be a good time to check out what Ben Garrison is up to...
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5th March 2020, 02:18 PM | #75 |
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The problem is, few are going to research the "facts" as put forth in the meme. And we know from human psychology that even pointing out the falsehoods in the meme can cement the allegations in certain minds.
Another problem is there is just a tiny kernel of truth in the assertions, although they're exaggerated. As oppo research on Bernie gears up, prepare for an onslaught of such memes. It's going to be a giant game of "Whack-a-Mole". |
5th March 2020, 02:19 PM | #76 |
Penultimate Amazing
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5th March 2020, 02:22 PM | #77 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Let's face it, politicians don't like to tell unpalatable truths to people.
The trick is to make it look like you are doing it, why you really are not, so you can get credit for being "Straithforward". I love that all three are so vague in details. And Bernie does seem to think that UHC is a pancea for all our economic ills. I support UHC, but am not under the illusion it is going to fix every problem with our economy like some of it's proponents seem to suggest. |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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5th March 2020, 02:34 PM | #78 |
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You got some facts right but somehow managed to arrive at the wrong conclusion. I'd like to point out that 2016 was decided by less than those "few piddling percent points" in WI, MI, and PA. It's my understanding that some sat out (or voted third party) because they refused to vote for Hillary (hell, I know quite a few of them). Bringing those people back around (now that Hillary is gone) is enough to swing the election away from Trump...without converting a single Trump voter. |
5th March 2020, 02:57 PM | #79 |
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Biden is a complete disaster candidate, Sanders won't be allowed to run - I wouldn't be so certain that Killary is "gone" in the sense of not "running" again in an "emergency Uncle situation".
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5th March 2020, 03:06 PM | #80 |
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I understand. I do think it's important to point out this will be an issue with anyone. Yes, I'm sure you claim Bernie is particularly susceptible, and I'm not arguing you are wrong on that; I just want to stress how very important it is to be aware that this will be an issue with anyone. We've already seen attempts to attach Biden to corruption in Ukraine, and I see no evidence of that story dying. I trust you remember what a giant game of Whack-a-Mole it was with Hillary Clinton. For literally decades. Still going on, as far as I can tell. |
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