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9th March 2020, 07:18 AM | #281 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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9th March 2020, 07:20 AM | #282 |
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"Qualification" is a weird concept (not wrong or bad to be 100% clear, just weird) to functionally apply to elected positions.
There's more "First date impression" then "Going down the list of qualifications at a job interview" to how America picks its President. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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9th March 2020, 07:21 AM | #283 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The vice presidency is the least possible elected position you could get and still technically have it be an elected position.
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9th March 2020, 07:45 AM | #284 |
Banned
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9th March 2020, 08:10 AM | #285 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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9th March 2020, 08:16 AM | #286 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Who am I not to be entitled to my opinion about Bob's opinion? I'm a tax-paying American just like everyone else ought to be.
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9th March 2020, 08:23 AM | #287 |
Penultimate Amazing
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They own fielding a champion that seems obviously unfit for the fight ahead of them. All the warning signs are there. Should he fail the hindsight will be vicious, and the party will deserve every bit of it.
It is my sincere hope that the anti-Trump animus is going to be enough to run up a strong win for the Democratic party, because Biden seems weak. |
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9th March 2020, 08:25 AM | #288 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I think the difference between BernieBros and BidenBoosters is how they often identify with the problems with their particular candidates.
Biden would not have been my first pick as a candidate, but I think he is best of what's left. However, I do recognize his track record of making embarrassing gaffes is a problem and it could cost the democrats at least some votes. (I suspect the majority of BidenBoosters here feel the same way). On the other hand, when you point out the problems with Bernie, you often get a complete failure to acknowledge the problems by the BernieBros. Point out how his statements on Castro might cost votes (especially in Florida), and you get "Obama said the same thing/its true/etc.", when the proper response would have been "Yes it was a mistake." Point out how its foolish for Sanders to attack "Democratic elites" since he will need their support in the general election, and you get "Well, they had it coming". Point out how Sander's self-labeling as a "socialist" could be problematic, and you get "Well Republicans will attack anyone". Point out how the vast majority of people are against banning private health insurance, and you get some sort of claim about how "If you don't support BernieCare you want to see people die in the streets, besides look how great of a system it is!".
Quote:
And keep in mind that at least one poster who has been supportive of Sanders (Sideroxylon) appears to have accepted a doctored video of Biden as valid. |
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9th March 2020, 08:31 AM | #289 |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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9th March 2020, 08:33 AM | #290 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I haven't read the original article... paywall... but I have read other versions of the story, such as: https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/8/21...etweeted-trump
One thing is that supposedly Twitter has a policy of banning posters who repeatedly post deceptive content. It would be interesting to see if they actually follow though, as Trump and his minions ramp up their disinformation campaign. It would be funny to see Trump unable to post anymore. Too bad facebook isn't as proactive as twitter. |
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9th March 2020, 08:42 AM | #291 |
Fiend God
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9th March 2020, 08:54 AM | #292 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2020, 08:56 AM | #293 |
Illuminator
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I have to admit that although I saw young males get excited over Sanders and then Yang this time around (and those lost interest, not going back to Sanders) I never knew what exactly were Berniebros other than males.
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9th March 2020, 09:03 AM | #294 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm not surprised. Whataboutisms aren't just for trumpkins, they seem to be a tool of most radicals, who tend to say or do (or support) things that aren't too easy to defend when challenged. For example, alternative medicine/spiritualist supporters tend to go "but but big pharma" and the edgy Palestine supporters almost answer answer with "but but Israel!!" as a knee-jerk reaction, no matter what you tell them.
I don't think another radical outsider with a "let's burn down the house, this isn't working" mindset and edgy supporters is really what polarised America wants or needs right now. Then again, you could say the same thing about another elderly man who might have started to exhibit symptoms of dementia. At least the Dems don't have a candidate who's both rolled into one. |
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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9th March 2020, 09:13 AM | #295 |
Fiend God
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Deleted. The quoted post was retracted.
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9th March 2020, 09:20 AM | #296 |
Fiend God
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9th March 2020, 09:26 AM | #297 |
Fiend God
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9th March 2020, 09:36 AM | #298 |
Fiend God
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You think it's a joke? Clinton lost because not enough Democrats decided to vote, moreso than Republicans. A boring candidate on the Democratic side might just lull GOP voters into complacency.
Considering how close the last election was, it's no joke. The opposition being inspired to vote or not matters. Do you deliberately miss people's points consistently, or is it just a trait? Starting to wonder if the primary process isn't just helping the opposition by weakening your own candidates. |
9th March 2020, 09:52 AM | #299 |
Fiend God
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9th March 2020, 09:55 AM | #300 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh. I saw that here and stupidly assumed it had been vetted by someone here instead of it being a cheap fake.
It did influence me, so now I can forget I ever saw it. |
9th March 2020, 10:02 AM | #301 |
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
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In the long run, the party, and the country, needs Biden to lose. The electability myth has already been insanely pervasive without any examples of it actually ever being right; give it one single example when it finally coincidentally actually was right (against the most incompetent, evil, and unpopular excuse for a "President" ever), and it'll get dug in even deeper. And we have no chance of changing the course the country has been on for decades without first getting that myth out of the way.
Since that myth's spell on people hasn't broken yet in the face of its 100% failure rate so far, I don't know how many more failures it will take, but it must be done. Yes, a Biden loss in the general election would mean Trump sticking around a bit longer, but Biden's Presidency wouldn't be much different anyway, and I'm looking over a longer time-frame than that. For the good of the country, the "just give up lefties only the right can ever possibly win" myth needs to die, and Biden winning would only give it more life. |
9th March 2020, 10:23 AM | #302 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Yes, because any judges that Trump happens to nominate will automatically disappear once the progressives take over.
And all the environmental harm that is occurring will magically vanish once the progressive take over.
Quote:
Biden would not nominate hard-right judges, which would give the republicans even more ability to corrupt the political system in the future (and putting abortion rights at risk). Biden would not engage in any more environmental and/or financial deregulation. Biden would reverse various racist policies (such as the border wall, and locking up children in cages) Sure, you're not going to get "BernieCare", but you're going to end up with a president who is at least going to improve the lives of millions of Americans. Bernie or Busters need to re-evaluate their life choices. And did it ever occur to you that one of the reasons Biden is as popular as he is is not just "electibilty", but because they actually like his candidacy? The whole "BernieCare" is not as popular as you seem to think, and Sanders has never made much inroads with the African American community. |
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9th March 2020, 10:39 AM | #303 |
Fiend God
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9th March 2020, 10:40 AM | #304 |
Fiend God
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9th March 2020, 10:51 AM | #305 |
Philosopher
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9th March 2020, 10:53 AM | #306 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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9th March 2020, 10:54 AM | #307 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Let's just note here that a major factor in Clinton's loss was her smug certainty that she would win, supported by most polls. People who would have voted for Clinton decided not to stand in line in the cold and rain and snow in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania because they thought their votes weren't needed. If she had ended every speech with "I need every vote! I need your vote!," that might have made a difference. Nobody will make that mistake this time around.
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9th March 2020, 10:58 AM | #308 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It's genuinely crazy to imagine there's no difference between Biden and Trump. Biden would not lead massive social change. But he would appoint competent, honest people to lead the executive departments, he would strengthen our ties with our allies, he would not pander to Putin and other foreign dictators, he would value scientifc evidence about global warming and other issues, and he would appoint responsible, mainstream judges to the federal courts. That's plenty of reason to vote for him.
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9th March 2020, 10:59 AM | #309 |
Mistral, mistral wind...
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"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”
Seriously- I get it. Ideologically, my preference would have been Bernie, or Liz Warren. But it's not going to happen; and the idea that Biden would be as bad as a Trump now empowered by beating impeachment and winning re-election (with followers just as empowered) is just pouting nonsense. The change will come- the programs Bernie wants (as do I) will have their day- but that change is going to have to be realistically incremental; inertia is a thing in politics as well as physics, and it takes time as well as brute shouting to change a country's direction. Voting for Trump because, gosh, Joe's just as bad and what's the difference, is (for the reasons Segnosaur lists, especially the future SC judges who will end up having the final say over whether the change will be allowed to stand) just a way to ensure that the things you want today are things your children and grandchildren will still be hoping for tomorrow. You say you're "looking over a longer time-frame than" Trump's victory in the next election; your actual effect would be to extend the disaster that would be for your own hopes. |
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9th March 2020, 11:08 AM | #310 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't want to speak for Delvo, but I'm not a left-wing accelerationist. A Biden win is preferable to a Trump re-election, for the obvious reasons.
I don't think Trump is some anomaly that will simply go away. Right wing reactionary politics are here to stay. Trump is a manifestation of a festering wound in the political system. Centrists want to paper over these wounds with civility and a return to normalcy, but that won't actually address any of the root causes. I very much worry that a Biden presidency will do little to address the root causes of our current populist outrage. There is a lot of anger in the air and there needs to be healthy response to it, otherwise the right will just weaponize it as they have repeatedly throughout history. I very much fear that a Biden presidency would just be a brief interregnum between reactionary right reigns. |
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9th March 2020, 11:10 AM | #311 |
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How quickly some forget what good governance looks like.
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9th March 2020, 11:17 AM | #312 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2020, 11:18 AM | #313 |
Penultimate Amazing
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My goodness! That's quite the overreaction to my saying "some here" instead of listing every single person by name! And you were still able to "correct (me) to my face" so apparently were weren't confused by the use of "some".
Quote:
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9th March 2020, 11:20 AM | #314 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2020, 11:23 AM | #315 |
Philosopher
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9th March 2020, 11:30 AM | #316 |
Penultimate Amazing
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And you're claiming that's what they're doing does not make it so.
You'd rather believe that all those former (now) 12 candidates are in a massive conspiracy to install a man with dementia in the WH rather than accept they just prefer him to Sanders. Maybe that's what you need to believe in order to excuse away the fact that Sanders is not doing as well as you want. |
9th March 2020, 11:32 AM | #317 |
Penultimate Amazing
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And what makes you think Sanders would be any better at addressing the "root causes of our current populist outrage"? Does he have some sort of magic wand to make people magically change their attitudes?
The most likely case of a Sanders victory is not some sort of universal harmony, but even more reactionary attitudes from the republican side. |
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9th March 2020, 11:32 AM | #318 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2020, 11:34 AM | #319 |
Penultimate Amazing
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9th March 2020, 11:37 AM | #320 |
Master Poster
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Bingo! The impatience by Bernie and fans to effect radical change is scary to a good many Americans. Imposing purity tests based on ideology alone is counterproductive, unless one can *impose* it. Where choice exists, realism is necessary in order to not frighten too many voters whose support is crucial.
Clinton was too complacent. Now Bernie is too eager. Both modes are suicidal. In this perilous time prudence must be the watchword. |
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