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4th April 2020, 09:38 PM | #361 |
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So, to follow up on my last post, The Great Zaganza asked "Why was the UK originally exempt?" Your response did not refer to the original ban, which was the subject of TGZ's query, but to the subsequent revision.
He was right. You were wrong. But you were so confident. |
5th April 2020, 07:03 AM | #362 |
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My reply was to Tolls about the date of the UK and Ireland travel ban. As above I was defending the date of the UK and Ireland travel ban. My confidence remains.
On a separate issue you seem to focus on, I suppose I could have included a better response to The Great Zaganza by listing the original Europe ban date and include the UK and Ireland ban date 3 days later but that was not in question of determining someone is right or wrong. The part in question is above in Tolls' quoted reply. Chris B. |
5th April 2020, 07:42 AM | #363 |
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You do realize that we can still see the earlier parts of the thread, right? Tolls hadn't posted in the thread for quite some time, your post didn't quote or even mention Tolls, and was literally the next post after The Great Zaganza specifically asked when the Euro travel ban was first enacted. You lie as badly as Trump does. |
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5th April 2020, 08:27 AM | #364 |
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You keep making the same flawed argument that "everyone is doing it" based on unconvincing anecdotal evidence and the bizarre implication that everyone living in a blue state must automatically be an anti-Trump Democrat.
Meanwhile, the actual data is clear. And unfortunately, the hard reality of that data is about to come crashing down on the heads of the people who have been denying it. |
5th April 2020, 08:43 AM | #365 |
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What misinformation? At most they were downplaying the number of cases, but it's unrealistic to think China knew how many people had the virus given that it had only been identified for a few weeks at that point. Where were you getting your information from? If anything the available information back in Jan painted a much more serious picture than what is actuary occurring. Early reports suggested SARS like mortality rates, but unlike SARS it was spreading as a normal respiratory infection would. The Trump administration were the ones saying "there was nothing to prepare for" in spite of all the warnings from the WHO. Believing their own misinformation isn't a reason to give the Trump administration a pass. |
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5th April 2020, 08:45 AM | #366 |
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I already covered The Great Zaganza reply and that I could have included the earlier order instead of the March 14th order which included UK and Ireland. Since UK and Ireland where in question I included only the March 14th order that included them in MY view of the gist in discussion.
My reply to Tolls was in response to the claim that UK and Ireland travel ban happened a few days after the March 14th, which was untrue. It seems your view of truthfulness is based on dichotomous thinking about truth. Understandable yet unfortunate. Chris B. |
5th April 2020, 08:45 AM | #367 |
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5th April 2020, 08:48 AM | #368 |
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5th April 2020, 08:51 AM | #369 |
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If you simply wish to attack a Trump supporter to relieve stress by all means I'll give you a valid talking point. President Trump is doing a great job. The highest Covid-19 infection areas in the US are all run by Democrats. Their failure to protect their people is evident.
Chris B. |
5th April 2020, 09:07 AM | #370 |
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Over at townhall.com today I see a couple of columns related to questioning the reality of the size of the COVID-19 epidemic. There's a really strong anti-intellectual strain in both of those columns. One notes that "experts" don't have to live with the consequences of their predictions, while another notes that models aren't 100% accurate. These are both cited as reason to doubt the validity of predictions about the dire nature of the forecasts.
One point that was made in one of the columns that I agree with (assuming it's true) is that the White House ought to be sharing the models and the data used with those models in order to make predictions. If people are talking 200,000 deaths, where do those numbers come from? What assumptions is that number based on? This seems like basic peer review to me. Yes, sharing them with the world at large inevitably means sharing them with the press, which means putting up with a bunch of bad analysis, but collectively, the community ought to be able to make sense of them. Of course, I'm not sure that the assertion is even true. Are the models secret, or is that just a myth from a portion of the press? Do the columnists just not know where to find a description of the models? |
5th April 2020, 09:24 AM | #371 |
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5th April 2020, 09:46 AM | #372 |
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5th April 2020, 10:02 AM | #373 |
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5th April 2020, 10:19 AM | #374 |
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5th April 2020, 10:42 AM | #375 |
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5th April 2020, 10:45 AM | #376 |
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Which is why California and Washington state are doing well in the covid-19 responses, and infection rate. Since they're both republican run.
Wait. Sorry. It seems your premise is, as usual, very wrong. We'll see how the states that refuse 'stay at home' orders, or consider church 'essential' do. Those seem republican run. |
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5th April 2020, 10:46 AM | #377 |
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5th April 2020, 10:47 AM | #378 |
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A trend I'm still seeing in conservative media is that they aren't really praising Trump, but they are attacking Democrats.
I see a lot of conservative voices decrying our lack of work, and the need to get the economy rolling again. Here's what I wish I saw from the White House. I wish I saw a plan. I wish I saw more transparency. It is not impossible to stand up and say, "By April 20, we will have the capability to test X people per day. This will allow us to detect fresh outbreaks and immediately quarantine indidividuals and do contact tracing. We will also have distributed Y masks, and be producing Z per day. We are also distributing 1 zillion non-contact thermometers. Businesses wishing to reopen must screen all employees for fever daily. Through these measures, we anticipate the new infection rate will drop off to N new cases per day. Sadly, we can never drop that rate to 0, but if we can lower it to N, we can be reasonably safe returning to work. Restaurants will remain closed until the new infection rate drops to M cases...…." In other words, it would be possible to provide very detailed sorts of information, and planning, to really provide people the information they need to make an informed decision, or perhaps more accurately to describe the informed decisions made by the government. Unfortunately, I see none of this from Trump, and I don't anticipate seeing any. it's not his style. A presentation like that puts the data at the center. Trump wants to be the center himself. A presentation like that assumes that the decisions are being made from a scientific perspective. Trump seems more into "We have to do this so somebody do something about it or I'm going to use the P act!" A presentation like that is based on the premise that at this moment, we aren't prepared for what we want, but we know where we need to make up ground before we can act. Trump is much more into, "Look at how awesome we are!" So I assume we will continue to see conservatives demanding an end to the economic pain, but I don't anticipate seeing any plan that would get us there without simply saying, "Too bad about your Aunt Nancy, but 73 is really a pretty long life when you think about it." |
5th April 2020, 10:51 AM | #379 |
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5th April 2020, 11:00 AM | #380 |
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LA Mayor Eric Garcetti and Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan have changed parties from Democrat to Republican? When did this happen? I can't find anything online about it. LA and Seattle are likely the most Pro-Democrat areas of the US, to suggest they are run by Republicans is outrageously dishonest. Chris B. |
5th April 2020, 11:04 AM | #381 |
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Why yes they are! Unlike your premise! Washington State started out very bad. Limits were put in place, and Washington state seems to have 'flattened the curve', and doing much better, despite being 'Democratic run'.
Meanwhile, Republican areas are refusing to do 'stay at home' orders, and are allowing churches to. I know conservatives despise science, but it seems they just want people to die. |
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5th April 2020, 11:05 AM | #382 |
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5th April 2020, 11:07 AM | #383 |
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5th April 2020, 11:10 AM | #384 |
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5th April 2020, 11:11 AM | #385 |
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mTjTaR748eg
Trump downplays Covid-19. Why do you hold De Blasio accountable for downplaying Covid-19 but not Trump? |
5th April 2020, 11:36 AM | #386 |
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Is the "downplaying" supposed to be that he wasn't putting the city in lock-down back when it had only 25 known cases? Otherwise he seems pretty on top of things, particularly he's already sound the bell on the issues with lack of testing and shortages of medical equipment. I'm not sure what more he could have been doing/saying at that point in time.
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5th April 2020, 11:50 AM | #387 |
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I had the same thought. Also, do we see Dems defending De Blasio's early downplaying of the virus like Repubs are defending Trump? No. WAPO, MSN, Huffpost,and CNN, all considered "lefties" by Trump, have all criticized De Blasio's early message.
Quote:
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Wed April 1, 2020
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5th April 2020, 11:52 AM | #388 |
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5th April 2020, 12:41 PM | #389 |
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The man who loves to claim "Fake News" is one of its leading sources:
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5th April 2020, 12:45 PM | #390 |
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5th April 2020, 12:51 PM | #391 |
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I'm not going to defend his statements, but trying to use those statements to turn this in to a 'Trump was perfect, it was all the local democratic governments that made this into a disaster' is, quite frankly, obscene.
johnny karate is rightly noting that the President, a man with access to a much larger intelligence network, much greater resources, and so forth was making much more dismissive comments than the Mayor. Yet according to the Trump fan in the room "President Trump is doing a great job." Frankly, we've seen this tactic before. Post-Katrina the standard tactic by Bush followers was to attack the local Governors & Mayors (who did have issues) but that couldn't gloss over the fact that the Federal response to the Katrina crisis made things much. much worse. Trump is in the same position and has made things much worse. Using the mayor's early downplaying of the disease as a get-out-of-responsibility-free card is pretty disgusting. Yet, here we are, the GOP playbook is open to attack the local government if they have a 'D' next to their name. Its the old tactic: always attack, never defend. We're now at that stage since the flagrant denial antics by the GOP are no longer viable. |
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5th April 2020, 01:00 PM | #392 |
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I agree with that. A major difference is that De Blasio also acknowledges he was wrong in his earlier assessment whereas Trump never, ever admits he was wrong about anything.
Always attack, never defend is similar to "the best defense is a good offense" tactic that Trump and his followers employ. As for Katrina, have you forgotten that Brownie did a "heck of a job"? |
5th April 2020, 01:16 PM | #393 |
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He's right that the highest C-19 infection areas are in those that are run by Democrats but he's completely wrong as to the reasons why:
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(Also available on Microsoft News feed) |
5th April 2020, 05:49 PM | #394 |
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5th April 2020, 05:52 PM | #395 |
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5th April 2020, 06:02 PM | #396 |
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5th April 2020, 06:27 PM | #397 |
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s
Are they doing better?
Philadelphia is a smaller population city but a much more dense eastern city. Cases as of 7 hours ago. 3189, with 43 deaths. https://6abc.com/coronovirus-philade...virus/6078961/ Houston, as of 2 hours ago: 2426 cases, 41 deaths. Houston is one big suburb and yet their stats are nothing to brag about. |
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5th April 2020, 06:42 PM | #398 |
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Slightly lower numbers today in the US overall, in New York, and in Michigan.
Is that an actual lower number of cases, or is reporting less prompt on Sunday. Is it a sign that these restrictions are working, or will we get a huge Monday bump as the reports catch up? |
5th April 2020, 07:06 PM | #399 |
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5th April 2020, 11:11 PM | #400 |
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That's a link to one area (Houston), not "Republican areas". Additionally, it's not that they're under reporting their cases, it's that they're reporting only confirmed cases. That doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a GOP or Dem area. From you link:
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