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15th April 2020, 08:58 AM | #81 |
Mistral, mistral wind...
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Hey, here's an idea- why don't we let those women involved decide for themselves? You know, on a case-by-case basis, instead of black-and-white, one-size-fits-all rules? Here's what I'm thinking- the "some" who think the fetus is a kid don't have to have an abortion if they don't want one- they get that choice. Wow, huh? And the other women, who may not feel the same way, get to make their own choice, based on what they think, instead of having to go by what the "some" who feel it is a kid think.
Granular, huh? |
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15th April 2020, 09:01 AM | #82 |
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Add some numbers to your argument and it might be more convincing.
How many "beds" would be made available? How many abortions are performed per day? If you could show that public health would be negatively impacted by allowing abortion to continue, you would have a case. I, personally, have no interest in discussing whether abortion ought to be legal at all. it's a philosophical issue and I'm well aware of all of the arguments on both sides. However, at least until the next case reaches the Supreme Court, it is legal. Now, given that, we go back to my earlier mention of its characteristics. It is: Normally available Time limited Has a major impact on the life of the person receiving the service. Are there any other services that have those characteristics that are currently banned due to COVID-19 restrictions? If not, then why this one? |
15th April 2020, 09:08 AM | #83 |
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You're missing the point, why should abortion clinics get special treatment over other medical specializations. Any day to day state update gives projections about how many beds they're short if there's a covid surge... frankly do your own work. It's about stemming the curve, I personally dont give a rats ass to debate abortion i this thread other than why is it of all things being thrown out there as the one essentiality that must be spared at the peak of a pandemic. The priority just shouldn't be there, and boo hoo anyone wanting to drama bait over womens rights. Its not the point. The pandemic effects everyone.
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15th April 2020, 09:15 AM | #84 |
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Special treatment?
There are a lot of ways to answer that question, and I think you will find pwengthold answered it way back at the beginning. The procedure has a time limit. Right now, I can't go get my teeth cleaned in Michigan. Why not? Because it can wait. The added risk of having a possibly infected doctor infect several patients isn't worth the risk. On the other hand, if I break a tooth and I am in pain, I can go to a dentist. What's the difference? Time factor. I can't wait for three weeks on the broken tooth without having a significant impact on my life. I haven't looked into it, but I'm guessing cosmetic surgery is banned or severely restricted right now. Why? Because I can wait a month or two for a nose job. A pregnant woman can't just wait a couple of months for an abortion. On top of that, the facilities used for abortion are not generally useful for medical purposes. You aren't going to see an abortion clinic repurposed for general medical use during the pandemic. |
15th April 2020, 09:18 AM | #85 |
Penultimate Amazing
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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15th April 2020, 09:22 AM | #86 |
Poisoned Waffles
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I think the revealing giveaway there is that people who are opposed to abortion on ethical grounds find later term abortions worse than earlier ones, because the fetus would be more developed; from that perspective, delaying abortion by months is a worse evil than not delaying them. If the interest were genuinely to protect the fetus from suffering they wouldn't want delayed abortions, it's not a desirable compromise position between abortion and no abortion.
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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15th April 2020, 09:28 AM | #87 |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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15th April 2020, 09:31 AM | #88 |
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I also strongly suspect that if we were to listen to Texas politicians, the same people who are saying that we have to shut down abortions because they take precious medical care away from more critical patients are also saying that we need to get back to work at Dick's Sporting Goods because the coronavirus is not that big a deal and not worth all this fuss.
(RockySmith76 has not been doing that, at least not that I have noticed. I just suspect that there would be a strong correlation between those who want to keep abortion clinics closed, and those who think business restrictions are too tight.) |
15th April 2020, 09:39 AM | #89 |
... and your little dog too.
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15th April 2020, 09:45 AM | #90 |
Penultimate Amazing
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All true. As I initially said, it's a complete misunderstanding as to what is meant by essential service. It's a service that can't wait until later.
People need groceries, and they can't wait 3 months to buy them. People getting a haircut can wait 3 months. Their hair may be a mop, but they can wait. If a woman doesn't get an abortion in a timely fashion, she can never get one. That cannot be said for a haircut. Hence, why abortion is essential and a haircut is not. I saw someone whining about how abortions are being called essential but surgery for heart disease is not. Which is really dumb, because no one is putting off any essential heart surgery. If you need a bypass done immediately, it will be done. If your heart surgery is something that can be put off for 3 months, then it is, by definition, not essential. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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15th April 2020, 09:48 AM | #91 |
No Punting
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So what about the shortage of beds for giving birth or for women having severe pregnancy complications?
Flushing fetuses is a net gain for care availability. It also doesn't require a hospital visit. So it flattens the curve by preventing the visiting of a virus hotspot, and also raises the bar for the curve to get under by not using hospital resources. Your arguments work better for increased abortion access, not less. |
15th April 2020, 09:55 AM | #92 |
Philosopher
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The stupidity, it burns. According to Kellyanne Conway, it's called COVID-19 because there were 18 previous strains of the virus, so WHO should have been ready to deal with it by now.
Quote:
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15th April 2020, 09:58 AM | #93 |
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15th April 2020, 10:00 AM | #94 |
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Again, if they don't want kids, back to the frivolous front, then get fixed as they say and don't worry about, freeing up the focus for the need where it's life threatening. There are prevention level steps one can take if its that important to them. ALso I never said anything about pill based abortions, the other side is the side obsessed with killing fetuses in the first place.
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15th April 2020, 10:03 AM | #95 |
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Not less, more focused on the actual need, and the frivolity that some of you give the whole child birth process is quite dystopian. One can less the need again, by getting fixed, putting up for adoption or just not putting onself at risk for the need in the first place. But screw some covid patients so someone can off their oops. Screw that.
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15th April 2020, 10:04 AM | #96 |
... and your little dog too.
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The scary part is that she probably knows damn well that’s not the reason it’s called COVID-19.
But during a life-and-death crisis, Republicans think it’s more important to spew propaganda to their base than keep the American people responsibly informed. These are truly evil people. |
15th April 2020, 10:05 AM | #97 |
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15th April 2020, 10:07 AM | #98 |
Penultimate Amazing
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A person getting an abortion is already pregnant. It doesn't do any good to say, "You shouldn't have gotten pregnant" to someone who is pregnant and wants an abortion.
I don't have any problems with those who do things to prevent getting pregnant, but it does nothing to address the situation of those who are pregnant. And getting an abortion is a legal option for those who are pregnant but don't want to have a child. |
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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15th April 2020, 10:07 AM | #99 |
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15th April 2020, 10:08 AM | #100 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
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15th April 2020, 10:14 AM | #101 |
... and your little dog too.
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Yes.
And it should be noted that “the left” isn’t “whining” about steps taken. Concerned and horrified Americans are angry at the steps that haven’t been taken by a bumbling and incompetent administration more concerned with soothing Trump’s fragile ego than saving lives while the country is literally falling apart. Hope that clears things up for you. |
15th April 2020, 10:17 AM | #102 |
Dark Lord of the JREF
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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15th April 2020, 10:19 AM | #103 |
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15th April 2020, 10:21 AM | #104 |
Pi
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This is an interesting development. If it's accurate.
How Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7 Million https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharz.../#66b006ab665b |
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Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] |
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15th April 2020, 10:23 AM | #105 |
Dark Lord of the JREF
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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15th April 2020, 10:27 AM | #106 |
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15th April 2020, 10:28 AM | #107 |
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I read an interesting comment that we should be following more stories about what it is actually like in these hospitals than press conferences.
Is there any good Cinéma vérité style videos of what it is like at a hospital right now? |
15th April 2020, 10:28 AM | #108 |
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15th April 2020, 10:29 AM | #109 |
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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15th April 2020, 10:39 AM | #110 |
Penultimate Amazing
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What's the Right doing other than whine about actions taken?
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/ups...ation-gridlock They're like children whining that mom won't let them go play outside during a hurricane. |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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15th April 2020, 10:42 AM | #112 |
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15th April 2020, 10:46 AM | #113 |
Dark Lord of the JREF
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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15th April 2020, 10:48 AM | #114 |
Penultimate Amazing
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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15th April 2020, 10:50 AM | #115 |
Evil Fokker
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Nobody is going to be using those clinics for COVID19 patients.
Most abortion clinics don't even have many beds to begin with. Its mostly an outpatient procedure. Or do you think examination tables or gynocology exam chairs can be repurposed into critical care beds? Did you even think this through before you went on this rant? Or do you honestly think that one medical resource is as the same as another? |
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www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
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15th April 2020, 10:50 AM | #116 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Quote:
But what was her motive for saying something so blatantly false? Could it possibly be to help Trump's attempts to pass blame from him to the WHO and thereby support Trump's decision to withhold funding to it? Nah...I'm just being way too cynical. Right? |
15th April 2020, 10:54 AM | #117 |
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15th April 2020, 10:57 AM | #118 |
... and your little dog too.
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15th April 2020, 10:59 AM | #119 |
Illuminator
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Wake me up when we get to the gun store debate and why gun stores are open.
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"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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15th April 2020, 11:00 AM | #120 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Some people just have a special talent for ignoring facts that don't agree with their beliefs. They are highly gifted at seeing things in absolutes of white/black. Gray is not a shade in their philosophy. For them 2+2= 5 and, damn it all, no one is going to convince them otherwise. Those that attempt to explain why 2+2=4 are the ones who have it wrong.
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