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18th April 2020, 04:30 PM | #321 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
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I don't think being outside is the reason for the low death rate in OC. Newsom's early stay at home orders have more to do with that. "Sunshine" does not 'disinfect' the coronavirus.
Orange County beaches? I lived in Orange County for several years (Fullerton). Huntington Beach, were I went, was always jammed packed. No room for any type of social distancing...and that was back in the 70's. About the only people who can go to Huntington or Sunset Beaches have to be able to get there without a car as parking is closed in the lots and closed parking meters on the streets. Those trying to park in residential neighborhoods and walk to the beach are having their cars ticketed or towed. Disneyland has been closed since March 16. |
18th April 2020, 04:35 PM | #322 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 3,414
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OC has some of the most lax restrictions in all of California. We are on a 'soft lockdown' We do NOT have the cases many areas see in the rest of the country, despite being a big area for tourists and having a crap ton of asians.
We had some of the EARLIEST cases of covid come through (one of the first 2 or 3 cases were here). It has been here. It has spread. It is still here. It has not killed like most places. The places it does kill here seem to be isolated elder communities. Please have some common sense as to how you deal with a society at lower risk. This is NOT NYC. |
18th April 2020, 04:40 PM | #323 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,530
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I don't know if this is the case, but a breeze should help carry one's expectorant farther. Folk downwind of an infected person might be at risk several or more meters distant, or *far* beyond the 6-foot guideline.
In any event, popular open spaces in heavily populated conurbations can become potentially more dangerous than the indoors. At least with uncontrolled ingress of people one would never otherwise encounter. A park or beach can become a mighty good nexus for infection. |
18th April 2020, 04:45 PM | #324 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,076
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Yeah, I get it. Mixing in some racism makes you very clear.
Your "lax restrictions" are a result of politics, not intelligence. I just hope your neighbors don't end up suffering for it because your OC exceptionalism won't kill the virus any more effectively than your weather. |
18th April 2020, 04:45 PM | #325 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 3,414
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Yep.. Crowded in popular places, especially in sunny weather! So where are all the mass cases here? It certainly has been here. All you need to do is look at who lives here to know we were a big target!
Why did we dodge the bullet? Still, even today, the county hardly has any testing. For some reason the state feels we are not a priority compared to other areas. We have such a high gdp that if we were a major risk, there should be a HUGE drive to test here. And they didnt, and still don't. Are they just stupid? Maybe we are just waiting for a big surge and should blame a future explosion of cases on the lack of attention from the state. I dont think so. I always said our cases will be more mild (see my posts from early March) and it will hit harder is colder areas. |
18th April 2020, 04:46 PM | #326 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
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Maybe both policy and individual behaviour could be directed by the consensus of experts and not lay speculation. Just a thought.
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18th April 2020, 04:52 PM | #327 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 3,414
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Racism? hahahahahahahahahahaahah
If you knew me this would be soooo laughable. Just consider yourself wrong. Saying that a lot of people we know around here travel to Asia (including ourselves) is not 'racist'. Thinking asians may travel to asia more than other people isnt 'racist. Just ridiculous. ISF... home of "Everything Is Racist". |
18th April 2020, 04:56 PM | #328 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,423
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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18th April 2020, 04:57 PM | #329 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Land of the Frozen Chosen
Posts: 1,022
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... and kisses. Lots and lots of kisses. A really great hug involves a smooch at the end. ... on the lips ... wet ... with some tongue action And they should all do that with each other at least every 35 minutes throughout the day, just to be sure that nobody gets left out and everyone feels well loved. |
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"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." ~ Emo Phillips |
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18th April 2020, 05:06 PM | #330 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 3,414
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You are right. I should have said that it is a place more likely for something to be construed by some as racist simply because race (or nationality) is mentioned, no matter the context. But I am not on social media so maybe it is worse there.
I will try to not react to single posters this way in the future. |
18th April 2020, 05:17 PM | #331 |
Poisoned Waffles
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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18th April 2020, 05:22 PM | #332 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 13,616
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Just looking around quickly. Disneyland is closed. OC's first case was in early March not on January 25th. OC.gov The curve is pretty steep. OC dot gov's chart shows 563 cases on April 1st. It was over 1,000 on April 9th. Today it's over 1,500.
This is from the local Orange County news site, the Orange County Register:
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18th April 2020, 05:46 PM | #333 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 3,414
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The first person to come into the county with it was Jan 25. It was a 55 year old man who recovered. Perhaps they are not counting travelers. Most in the early days were air travel or cruises.
Our county has 3.2 MILLION people. Please keep things in perspective. I do think this virus is dangerous and very very contagious. However, it is less pervasive in areas with better weather that are more spread out. USA has deaths at 118/mil. NY is at 901/mil, Calif. is at 29/mil. Acting like these are all to be treated the same is silly. Some places have natural distancing. Everywhere will get it. No place can close for 18 months. Be smart and open up areas that can handle it. |
18th April 2020, 06:21 PM | #334 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 13,616
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The flaw in this argument seems to be -- in all these arguments -- my county is on shutdown and the numbers are fairly low. Therefore we should relax the shutdown. If you think about it, that really doesn't make too much sense.
The popular places in Orange County aren't crowded, they're closed. There is testing being done. This is from today's Orange County Register:
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18th April 2020, 06:53 PM | #335 |
Philosopher
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18th April 2020, 07:34 PM | #336 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
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It's a shame that this conversation about the virus in Orange County, California is not happening in the Science/Medicine Forum.
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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18th April 2020, 08:05 PM | #337 |
Penultimate Amazing
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My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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18th April 2020, 08:39 PM | #338 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
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Well here's some politics for you:
Appears these 'liberate' protests are mostly (perhaps all) astroturf efforts. At least some DeVos money (that's the family of Trump Sec. Ed. Betsy DeVos) appears to be behind them. Devos funded group organizes protest against Michigan governor. Redditor does some digging with whois, finds protest sites were registered by the same person at the same time |
18th April 2020, 08:50 PM | #340 |
Guest
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Because he wasn't on top of the problem.
How many tests did we need? Was the CDC capable of making that many? If the CDC's tests had not been flawed, there would still not have been enough. So, even without the delay from CDC, there was a problem. Then, the CDC failure was revealed, and that made a bad problem worse. Also, how much time passed between the apparent failure of CDC tests and the time the Trump administration started asking questions. There are certain things that the President, and only the President, can do. Staying right on top of the details of how we were going to test for this virus, and then ordering action at the moment it appears that there will not be adequate testing, is something that Donald Trump could have done, but he didn't. It really is his fault. |
18th April 2020, 09:01 PM | #341 |
Graduate Poster
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I think the main takeaway for me is that Orange County is just as obnoxious and lame as I thought it was in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, and 2010s. It is basically the armpit of SoCal
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"May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq |
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18th April 2020, 09:12 PM | #342 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
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If I may add:
Trump was who appointed the current Director of the CDC, a man with unorthodox ideas about disease control. https://www.motherjones.com/politics...lling-viruses/ In addition, all of Trump’s budget proposals have proposed big cuts to CDC funding, although Congress has intervened each time to pass spending bills with year-over-year increases for the CDC. |
18th April 2020, 09:45 PM | #343 |
Master Poster
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Posts: 2,688
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That's a good question, do you know the answer? I don't, but I assume you do since you went straight from the question to knowing the Trump administration was wrong, whether it was five minutes or five weeks before they started asking questions.
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18th April 2020, 09:57 PM | #344 |
... and your little dog too.
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18th April 2020, 10:07 PM | #345 |
Guest
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No, the Trump administration would have been wrong either way, because the maximum possible testing that the CDC could have done would have been inadequate, and they did nothing. At least, nothing in a timely fashion.
The question about timing was just an "also" question, to see if there was something else that they did wrong. I do remember seeing news reports questioning the CDC test before I heard anything from the Trump administration, so I suspected there was something wrong. I'll see if I can find anything to confirm that memory. To bring up a rather high profile error from Trump on that subject, he was asked about testing while touring the CDC and made his famous remark about "anyone who wants a test gets a test". That is still not true today, and it certainly wasn't true then, with or without contaminated tests. He was simply wrong. He did what he does again and again. He declared that someone else was solving the problem and that it was just fantastic, but it wasn't. He didn't actually know the actual state of test availability, or the actual level of need. He just declared that everything was great, and did not take further action. It really was his fault. That's the problem with being the boss. People not only expect you to do your job, they expect you to know whether the people who work for you are doing theirs, and as if that was not bad enough, they expect you not to just handle the problems that appear on your desk, but they also expect you to catch problems before they become crises. Being President is a tough job. Not many of us could do it well. Donald Trump is one of those people who doesn't have what it takes.
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I suppose it's possible that, for that specific instance, there might be other officials who could also do it. I'm really not sure, but there are plenty of things that those people could not do. Suppose they need more money to do those things. The President can't fix that. Or suppose there is a law that says it cannot be done, and his lawyers tell him that he doesn't have the power, he can't do that. On the other hand, he can pick up the phone and say, "Mitch, Nancy. We have a big problem and I need you guys to fix it." And he's the only one that can do that. He can't make Nancy go along, so if she doesn't, then you can blame Nancy, but I don't think that's the case here. |
18th April 2020, 10:09 PM | #346 |
Master Poster
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18th April 2020, 10:12 PM | #347 |
... and your little dog too.
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18th April 2020, 10:16 PM | #348 |
Guest
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From your link:
"'It was just tragic,' said Scott Becker, executive director of the Association of Public Health Laboratories. 'All that time when we were sitting there waiting, I really felt like, here we were at one of the most critical junctures in public health history, and the biggest tool in our toolbox was missing.' Becker said that public health laboratories started receiving the CDC kits on Feb. 7, and by the next day members were already calling him to report that the test was not working accurately. He alerted both the CDC and the FDA, which regulates medical devices, including laboratory tests." So, February 7, problems were reported. I wouldn't expect Trump to do something on February 8, but I would expect a good President to know about the problem by no later than February 10, and announce some sort of action no later than February 12. He didn't. It really is his fault. |
18th April 2020, 10:18 PM | #349 |
... and your little dog too.
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18th April 2020, 10:20 PM | #350 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
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For one thing, Trump banned the use of tests from other countries while the CDC was fumbling. And he did it on purpose.
Report: Trump Dropped the Ball on Coronavirus Testing Because He Only Wanted Good News The president is worried about the ballot box in November, not the health of Americans
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I suppose if you only watch Fox and read from the right-wing echo-chamber you probably missed all that. |
18th April 2020, 10:51 PM | #351 |
Master Poster
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Posts: 2,688
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I disagree. If the CDC hadn't screwed up, it is possible they could have produced enough test kits early on to determine the infection rates were much higher than anticipated and they could've asked the state and private sector labs to pick up the slack, which they are doing now. To expect the Trump administration to know that the CDC was going to screw up the test kits, which only they were allowed to produce at the time, is nothing more than fantasty.
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18th April 2020, 10:55 PM | #352 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
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Another argument (as if more were needed) for universal health care:
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18th April 2020, 11:10 PM | #353 |
Master Poster
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18th April 2020, 11:18 PM | #354 |
Master Poster
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18th April 2020, 11:26 PM | #355 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
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Let's look at some more Trump facts because this stuff should not be forgotten as Trump piles **** upon **** burying his past ****.
Trump's staff cuts have undermined Covid-19 containment efforts, watchdog finds
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Then whoops, he got rid of all the fire-fighting equipment and staff and when the fire started there was nothing to stop it with. Quick, blame every one else and pretend your blocking some Wuhan citizens was bold and decisive yada yada. As late as Feb this year he was still trying to cut the CDC budget. |
18th April 2020, 11:44 PM | #356 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2013
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I won't dismiss the source but I will ask you to quote and highlight where it says Trump banned coronavirus tests from other countries.
Not to drag this thread off topic, but I can't help myself and I need to prove a point: there were hundreds of thousands of reports all over the news saying Trump colluded with Russia to win the election – they were all wrong. A popular lie is still a lie. |
19th April 2020, 12:06 AM | #357 |
Nasty Woman
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19th April 2020, 12:59 AM | #358 |
Guest
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That's the wrong question. Trump knew, or should have known, that testing was incredibly important. He should not have been waiting for someone to tell him something. He should be asking, perhaps a better word would be demanding, the information. Are the tests successful? How many do you need? How many can you make? When will they be available?
He's the President of the United States. He can get answers from government officials. He, and only he, can pick up the phone and make things happen. He didn't. It really is his fault. Heavy lies the head that bears the crown. Suck it up, Trump. The buck stops with you. |
19th April 2020, 01:18 AM | #359 |
Guest
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I don't know if that source that I hilited is reputable, but maybe you can do some research and see where he was getting his data.
ETA: And, Trump eventually fixed the problem that only the CDC was allowed to produce test kits at the time. He did a lot of things, eventually. |
19th April 2020, 01:36 AM | #360 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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