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7th May 2020, 11:51 AM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
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Justice Deparment Drops Case Against M. Flynn
After pleading guilty, the Dept. of Justice (read that "Barr") has dropped charges against Michael Flynn.
This is an unprecedented move. After months of Trump railing against how Flynn was railroaded, etc. Anyone else smell something rotten here?
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7th May 2020, 11:52 AM | #2 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
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I'm afraid that stench has been there for a while now.
Trump wants to get his buddies off without sullying his own name before the election. Barr is giving him cover. Roger Stone charges dropped in 3... 2... 1... |
7th May 2020, 12:01 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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7th May 2020, 12:09 PM | #4 |
Poisoned Waffles
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,744
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Dropping charges against someone who's pleading guilty? Isn't that like kicking an own goal?
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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7th May 2020, 12:15 PM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
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The JD did not say that Flynn didn't lie (which Flynn admitted he did), only that they can't "prove it" BARD.
Uh huh. |
7th May 2020, 12:19 PM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
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The lying was a proces crime. The DOJ is dropping the investigation that triggered that process. Because that investigation was bogus to begin with.
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7th May 2020, 12:37 PM | #7 |
Dark Lord of the JREF
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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7th May 2020, 12:43 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,511
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If there was blatant state overreach then dropping the charges may be the right thing to do, regardless of how one feels about Trump.
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7th May 2020, 12:45 PM | #9 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
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Wasn't he set up?
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7th May 2020, 12:46 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
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7th May 2020, 12:53 PM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
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I have mixed feelings about this.
The feds really seem to enjoy setting up perjury scenarios and nailing people for them, especially if they can't make a larger case. Generally speaking, I am never really comfortable with this. Opponents of Flynn really care more about his involvement with the extremely corrupt Trump election campaign than they do about the importance of not lying to federal agents. I also have no illusion that Barr's justice department is dropping this after a come-to-jesus moment about this practice. This is obviously about bailing out Trump loyalists. No-one else finding themselves in the perjury trap can expect to get relief, unless they are doing dirty work for Trump. The Trump era has made for some strange bedfellows. You have libs cheering on federal law enforcement, and conservatives bemoaning the overreach of law enforcement. Strange times indeed. |
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7th May 2020, 01:11 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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DOJ drops case against Flynn
The Department of Justice has withdrawn its case against Michael Flynn.
https://apnews.com/ae1ad252bb13490db2ceffc5d17b6d92 This is not terribly surprising, given recent revelations about how the case against Flynn started, and given that the prosecution illegally withheld this information until now. Van Grack is up a creek without a paddle, and he knows it. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 01:16 PM | #13 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
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What about all the charges they dropped as part of the plea bargain that is being thrown out?
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th May 2020, 01:18 PM | #14 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th May 2020, 01:26 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 01:29 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
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There's already a thread. Sorry.
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7th May 2020, 01:31 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 01:32 PM | #18 |
Papa Funkosophy
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
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7th May 2020, 01:33 PM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It's a crime that arises from the process of investigating/prosecuting some other crime. It's still a crime, but let's be clear: Lying during a bogus criminal investigation is not the same as committing the crime that's being "investigated". There was no justification for interrogating him, which kind of renders moot his lie during that interrogation.
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7th May 2020, 01:36 PM | #20 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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No, it's not a come-to-jesus moment. Van Greck got caught with his pants down. He had a legal obligation to turn over all Brady material to the defense, and recently uncovered documents prove that he didn't. His prosecution was sunk because of that. This is an admission of that fact. You can speculate whether or not that material would have been uncovered for someone else, but 1) it's just speculation, and 2) this is exactly the sort of thing that, if uncovered, can sink a prosecution of anyone.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 01:36 PM | #21 |
Papa Funkosophy
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe. |
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7th May 2020, 01:42 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_crime
The underlying crime they were nominally investigating was a violation of the Logan act. If you're familiar with this act and its history, you will know why that's a farce. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 01:43 PM | #23 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 01:48 PM | #24 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2020, 02:01 PM | #25 |
"más divertido"
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Location: USA! USA!
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Bogus criminal investigation? The guy was an unregistered lobbyist for Turkey, writing editorials while he was being named National Security Adviser.
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7th May 2020, 02:15 PM | #26 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 02:27 PM | #27 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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As one (but not the only) example:
https://www.scribd.com/document/459057200/doc-188 Handwritten note from an agent: "What's our goal? Truth/Admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?" Not only is this suggestive of an illegitimate purpose for the investigation of Flynn, but just as importantly in terms of the case against Flynn, this is Brady material. Withholding it from the defense was illegal. Given the protracted fight that Flynn had in order to get this material, the fact that it came out this late in the process after Van Grack swore up and down to the court that everything had already been turned over, basically dooms any hope that any prosecutor could have ever had in going forward with the case against Flynn. If there was ever a legitimate case against Flynn, Van Grack ****** it up beyond any hope of repair. And if you think he did it to protect Trump, you need to share your drugs with the rest of the class. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 02:39 PM | #28 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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7th May 2020, 02:43 PM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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First, to the extent that you're right, that's pretty damning of standard police procedure. Second, as I keep having to point out because people want to ignore it, the fact that this stuff wasn't turned over to the defense years ago is at least as much of a problem as the contents themselves.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 02:45 PM | #30 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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7th May 2020, 02:49 PM | #31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,083
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Judge Sullivan will have to accept the DoJ dropping the case. With Flynn already having appeared in court and admitting to lying to the FBI, there is grounds for sentencing him on the basis of that.
It'll get appealed and trump will sic his followers on Judge Sullivan, so who knows what'll happen. |
7th May 2020, 02:51 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,301
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I'd far rather see the case dropped than see him get a pardon. With the case dropped, jeopardy doesn't attach, and once Trump is gone, and the rotten core of the DOJ is cleaned out, with the corrupt AG replaced with with someone who has integrity, the DOJ will be able to take the case up again, and prosecute the traitorous SOB and lock his arse up.
Flynn sold his country down the river for personal gain, to the Russians and the Turks of all people. He might not technically have committed treason, but he is a traitor nonetheless in every other way. |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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7th May 2020, 03:03 PM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 03:04 PM | #34 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 03:05 PM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
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it was dropped because the president and all his minions are ********** of the first degree, corrupt to the core. If you think anything else you are a deluded fool.
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7th May 2020, 03:06 PM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
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America is dead as a nation of any integrity, it is a criminal state. trump has corrupted it to the core.
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7th May 2020, 03:09 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,422
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Bitch and moan all you want, but none of your complaining will make any of this true. The recent document dump was damning for the case against Flynn. That's simply an objective fact. And as time goes by, even Trump-hostile legal experts are going to have to admit that.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th May 2020, 03:17 PM | #38 |
Dark Lord of the JREF
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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7th May 2020, 03:26 PM | #39 |
Penultimate Amazing
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7th May 2020, 03:29 PM | #40 |
Dark Lord of the JREF
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"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head." |
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