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13th May 2020, 12:01 PM | #241 |
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13th May 2020, 01:02 PM | #242 |
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Even if that is what he meant, what that means, as I suggested in my first post on the quote, is that Barr sees the application of Justice in a partisan lens. That the winner gets to decide what is right or not.
Sorry, but you have said exactly nothing to contradict my point that Barr is not arguing in a legal way for letting a guilty man go without a sentencing. |
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13th May 2020, 02:17 PM | #243 |
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13th May 2020, 02:24 PM | #244 |
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No it doesn't mean that. It means that he's saying many people will view it through a partisan lens.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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13th May 2020, 02:53 PM | #245 |
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GOP senators release list of Obama officials, including Biden, who ‘unmasked’
Michael Flynn https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...6e5_story.html |
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13th May 2020, 04:31 PM | #246 |
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Court asks retired judge to oppose Justice Dept. effort to drop Michael Flynn case, examine if ex-Trump adviser committed perjury
Michael Flynn’s sentencing judge Wednesday asked a former federal judge to explore whether Trump’s former national security adviser should face a contempt hearing for perjury after he pleaded guilty to a crime for which he now claims to be innocent. U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan also asked retired New York federal Judge John Gleeson to make a nonbinding recommendation whether to order Flynn, who pleaded guilty to a crime and now claims innocence, to explain why he should not be found in criminal contempt for lying under oath in his guilty plea. https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...6e5_story.html |
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13th May 2020, 04:37 PM | #247 |
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13th May 2020, 04:45 PM | #248 |
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13th May 2020, 05:04 PM | #249 |
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Regarding Sullivan's perjury question, Flynn has under oath told the judge he is both guilty and innocent of lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russia during the Trump transition.
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13th May 2020, 05:42 PM | #250 |
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I see Billy Barr's seemingly contemptuous remark about history being written by the victor as him preemptively covering his ass, or at least providing some shred of an excuse. He knows how wrong he is, and that every honest prosecutor knows it. But he needs to project this as a situation where sufficient inconclusiveness is present to allow him to claim now and later that the 'other side' is applying the 'victor writes the history rule' when the blue wave sweeps the current cabal out of power.
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13th May 2020, 07:19 PM | #251 |
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13th May 2020, 07:38 PM | #252 |
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13th May 2020, 07:40 PM | #253 |
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14th May 2020, 01:56 AM | #254 |
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I think Judge Sullivan is none too happy with the DOJ. More information on Judge Sullivan's move:
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14th May 2020, 05:08 AM | #255 |
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..Judge Sullivan, he said, is essentially bringing in an outsider to represent the point of view of the original prosecutors, who believed Mr. Flynn had committed a crime before Mr. Barr intervened and essentially replaced them with a prosecutor willing to say he had not.This is the sort of thing that a judge usually does when they think the defendant is not being adequately represented. In this case, it looks very much like the he thinks the plaintiff (The US) is not being adequately represented. If so, I completely agree. |
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14th May 2020, 05:42 AM | #256 |
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14th May 2020, 05:43 AM | #257 |
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14th May 2020, 07:22 AM | #258 |
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Previously:
Rather than acknowledged and retracted, Zig merely ignored that he made the claim from then on. I find this is only marginally better than what is in the Trump playbook, which would have been to call me a fake poster and blame me for a conspiracy to make Flynn be under oath when he made his plea. |
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14th May 2020, 07:29 AM | #259 |
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The bizarre thing is that by all accounts, Flynn could have gotten off on probation over a year ago.
None of this is in Flynn's best interest, it's political theater to help sell Trump's narrative. Kudos to Judge Sullivan for not letting his court get coopted. |
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14th May 2020, 08:18 AM | #260 |
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The guilty plea.
Yeah but was he knowingly stating that he knew he was doing so knowingly or was he coerced to pretend to know that he was doing so knowingly, and did he knowingly know that the statement was knowing or was he knowingly misinformed about that knowledge? |
14th May 2020, 03:16 PM | #262 |
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Well, since Ziggurat appears to be thoroughly disinclined to identify the supposed Brady material, I went on a brief hunt for a publication which would. I couldn't find any! Plenty of vague gesturing at recent disclosures, but no one willing to identify material and articulate why it is exculpatory. It seems like this is a talking point crafted by Flynn advocates, and then repeated without scrutiny.
I did find a few commenters suggesting that the FBI withheld the fact that the interviewing agents believed Flynn was not lying during the interview at issue, but it's a matter of record that this was disclosed prior to Flynn signing the plea deal (page 8 and 9 of 32). That memorandum also shows what an about face the motion to dismiss was, as it sides with the government against Flynn argument that any lie would not have been material to the investigations. |
14th May 2020, 04:08 PM | #263 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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14th May 2020, 07:54 PM | #264 |
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More than anything this is a sad state of affairs -- seeing a bunch of nerdy, jackal foreigners on this board attacking an American who served in the military and bravely lied to the FBI.
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15th May 2020, 02:18 AM | #265 |
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...bravely perjured himself to the FBI
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15th May 2020, 12:23 PM | #266 |
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17th May 2020, 09:48 PM | #267 |
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1) The FBI's Washington Field office's Closing Communication on Crossfire Razor. Knowing that the FBI had decided to drop it's investigation without intention to charge him with a crime would be exculpatory, at least according to his attorney.
2) Communications showing how the FBI was intentionally trying to deceive Flynn about the January 24 interview being adversarial. That includes emails and texts from Priestap, Page and Strzok.
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Did the prosecution inform Flynn and his counsel about the texts between Page and Strzok where they discussed altering his 302 multiple times? I'm guessing that could possibly sway his decision to plead guilty. |
17th May 2020, 11:17 PM | #268 |
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17th May 2020, 11:19 PM | #269 |
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The DOJ, in typical Barr tradition, has picked from the FBI reports the bits that look like they support their position and covered-up the bits that contradict them. The Agent they quote again and again in the withdrawal has publicly stated that they were misquoted.
It's the lie about the Mueller Report all over again. Nothing Barr does is honest or just. |
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18th May 2020, 12:28 AM | #270 |
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18th May 2020, 12:31 AM | #271 |
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18th May 2020, 02:06 AM | #272 |
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Before fixating on the little stuff like the lying to the FBI charge, we might do well to wait to see what really serious stuff Flynn pled down from in order to get this very light charge of lying.
Remember also that Judge Sullivan was really pissed over Flynn, musing out loud about the possibility of calling treason. And Flynn had agreed to be a cooperating witness, further buttressing the likelihood of otherwise facing serious charges had he not. And Sullivan sternly suggested Flynn do some more cooperating and delay his sentencing because of how pissed he was and thus would levy a harsher penalty. I've seen reporting that Flynn was planning to kidnap an enemy of Erodogan's for money, and deliver him over to the Turks, FFS. And don't overlook his undeclared status as a lobbyist for Turkey, for pay. This dirty operator, if guilty of these things while a member of the US government, would indeed inspire a patriotic American to invoke the picture of a traitorous scumbag. If it ever gets out just how bad Flynn betrayed his country, even apologists like you might be inclined to call for his pillorying. |
18th May 2020, 03:43 AM | #273 |
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18th May 2020, 03:46 AM | #274 |
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It is a fact that Flynn's company was getting hundreds of thousands of dollars from Turkey without him or his son ever registering as foreign agents.
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18th May 2020, 03:50 AM | #275 |
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18th May 2020, 04:06 AM | #276 |
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Oh, its true alright https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...turkey-n943926 |
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18th May 2020, 04:50 AM | #277 |
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None of that implies an attempt to kidnap this person as was claimed. Where is that crazy conspiracy nonsense coming from?
I'm happy to believe that he may have failed to properly declare lobbying activities. That sounds like the sort of stuff that goes on in Washington. There seems to be some question of whether it was the Turkish government that he was working for, or a Turkish company. Maybe that distinction doesn't matter? If we entertain the idea that there was an attempt to get him, then maybe it does? I'm not sure I quite take the prosecutors summary of events as the unbiased truth... but sure.... this at least doesn't sound implausible on its face. |
18th May 2020, 08:20 AM | #278 |
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Which he later backtracked and apologized for because he screwed up the timeline.
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18th May 2020, 08:37 AM | #279 |
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18th May 2020, 08:48 AM | #280 |
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Yes, actually, it was.
The security services in question are permitted to monitor communications by foreign nationals. They are prohibited from monitoring communications by citizens, without a proper warrant. When the security services are monitoring communications between foreign nationals and citizens, they are required to redact the identity of the citizen, to avoid violating their prohibition and committing government overreach. Overriding the redaction without a proper warrant is indeed a heinous crime, as it should be. Prosecuting on the basis of illegal unmasking is also a crime, as it should be. It is a long-standing principle of good jurisprudence and rule of law that a case built on violation of due process must be thrown out, even if the case does prove its allegations. As a matter of law, agents of the state are not permitted to seek justice by cheating. As a matter of principle, I don't think the state can bring justice by cheating. Even guilty people are entitled to due process. Even guilty people should go free if the state cheats in trying to bring them to justice. If government officials broke the rules to go after Flynn, then it is they, and not Flynn, who should be prosecuted. I'd like to see an argument that opens with explicit agreement with this principle of rule of law, and then goes on to defend Flynn's unmasking on the basis of that agreement. |
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