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12th May 2020, 05:52 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Why does Trump lie about EVERYTHING?/Commander in Cheat
My question is this. Why does Trump feel the need to lie about everything and why do some people ignore this?
Trump is so used to exaggerating, it has become his standard approach to anything. Most people lie from time to time, but they aren't compelled to make things up when there is little reason to. Any theories? |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 06:15 PM | #2 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
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See the Trump has a mental illness thread. It explains things well.
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12th May 2020, 06:16 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I think it is more likely that he knows absolutely nothing at all about anything, and will simply make **** up that he thinks sounds good.
His head is basically empty, but for the basic reptilian instincts. If it wasn't for his thick skull, the vacuum would drag his ears in. And he has been determined to be profoundly ignorant since childhood. Nobody has ever said NO to him, or forced him to actually pay attention and learn, or made him own up to his mistakes. His narcissism has been fed juicy red meat for all his life. So his ability to reason out problems and avoid pitfalls based on prior knowledge is zero because he doesn't retain any prior knowledge. Having never experienced negative feedback means he believes anything he says is gospel and profound. So any resistance, any kickback, any questioning is an assault on his narcissistic castle, leading to towering anger and bitter denial. So it is not so much that he lies all the time so much as he lives in a fairy tale land in his head. He thinks he is all-knowing and thus his truths are the only ones he accepts. When reality bites and shows him he is profoundly wrong, he continues to insist he is right because he has never learned to learn otherwise. |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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12th May 2020, 06:24 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 06:41 PM | #5 |
Guest
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I know it wasn't addressed to me, but I want to add a voice of support to what I'm confident SG will say.
I think she has made a pretty good case for it. Yes, I think our president is nuts, and that explains his need to lie about everything. Of course, he doesn't lie about everything, really. He only lies about things that he thinks make him look bad, or make his enemies look good, or make his friends look good if it would make them look better than him. I think SG will state it, and I think she's right. |
12th May 2020, 06:43 PM | #6 |
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50% mental illness, 50% the actual desire to live in a post-truth world.
I'm not kidding or exaggerating when I say we are staring down the barrel of sizeable number of people desiring to abandon factualness as a concept. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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12th May 2020, 06:51 PM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Maybe not everything, but damn close.
A lot of people will lie when backed ito a corner. And people will often attempt to put a positive spin on things. But Trump lies about so many things without a decent reason. For example, Instead of saying that the companies are working on getting enough tests available, he lies about it. What does he think it will buy him when the words are demonstrably false? |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 06:54 PM | #8 |
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Continued social and political support driven largely by a core base of nihilist driven 100% by spite and revenge.
Trump lying triggers the libs. It gets them angry. That's the answer to everything Trump does. Does it make sane, rational, good people angry? Then that's why he's doing it. Trump lying, even to the point he's constantly contradicting himself. Trump being a hypocrite 100% of the time about everything. Trump going down the checklist of everything that liberals support and crapping on it. It's all done for the same reason, trolling. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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12th May 2020, 06:55 PM | #9 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
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Pretty much, yes.
His pathologic narcissism. He cannot admit he is wrong. He has to make up the world to keep his fragile ego from bursting. For example, he imagined the pandemic would go away. When it didn't he imagined he acted to address it and he blames China (projection of his own lack of acting). It's always someone else's fault, again projecting. All his constant lies focus around his ego. Name something you don't think his mental illness explains. |
12th May 2020, 06:56 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2002
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You know how American English and British English are different yet similar enough to allow for communication? Trump speaks BS English.
As an American, I can toss together a few “cheerios” and “blimeys” and “what’s all this thens” just like I can BS here and there. But none of it is authentically me. Trump can, just barely and only rarely, manage to sound like he speaks genuine American English. But his pure native dialect is BS. |
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My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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12th May 2020, 07:06 PM | #11 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,725
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I think this article sheds some light on the topic:
The Styrofoam Presidency A normal liar still sees value in the truth, just as a general concept, and it is important for them to differentiate between truth and lies but I don't think that makes any difference to Trump.
Quote:
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12th May 2020, 07:06 PM | #12 |
Guest
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Understanding that is the key to realizing it really is a mental illness. Lots of people lie, but usually it's a scheme to gain something. Part of the decision to lie is assuming you can get away with it and not get caught. I don't think Trump ever gets to that point. He isn't trying to get away with telling a lie. He's altering reality to make it fit his needs. That's why he lies even when his claims are demonstrably false. He has shifted his world view to make them true in his head.
That's why it's a mental illness. I think he actually believes almost everything he says, and the next day, when something else would be more convenient, but it contradicts what he said yesterday, he believes that, too. |
12th May 2020, 07:12 PM | #13 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Trump reminds me of the not so smart football player running for Student Body President who cracks jokes during his campaign speech. And the American electorate has turned into High School Students that God forbid don't want to listen to the smart guy or girl running against them so they don't.
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 07:16 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I read somewhere recently that when trump is just privately talking -- this was from someone who had listened to recordings of calls between trump and Michael Cohen -- trump sounds like a different person. Everything was different, the inflections, the cadence, even the sound of his voice. They said he actually sounded like a halfway normal human being. For trump that is VERY surprising.
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12th May 2020, 07:31 PM | #15 |
Philosopher
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Certainly possible.
Also possible is it’s learned behavior. Hardfast rules first gleaned from Roy Cohn, and later refined by Roger Stone. Never admit you’re wrong. Take credit for everything good, blame others for everything bad. Praise those who are useful to you. Belittle and mock and caricature anyone who dare oppose you. I think a sane person could just make a conscious effort to follow those rules. Which, we have to admit, got a very small man all the way to the White House. But I suspect over the years these rules have been internalized to the extent they are indistinguishable from a mental disorder. And as such, may have actually become a mental disorder. |
12th May 2020, 07:42 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
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I really wish a Democratic politician would bluntly and repeatedly refer to him as the Liar in Chief. I'm so sick of people not taking it to him. I'd make it damn clear that while decorum should be how politicians treat each other, it's ridiculous to play nice while Trump has broken all the rules.
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 07:46 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I agree with SG: Trump is a full-fledged, unabashed, cream of the crop malignant narcissist and pathological liar. It's a severe personality disorder.
I think the primary reason Trump hates Obama so much is because, deep down, he knows Obama is everything he isn't and never can be. He hate him for that. |
12th May 2020, 07:51 PM | #18 |
Troublesome Passenger
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Trump lies as a matter of policy, to cover his other lies, because he can, because he always has, because he has never suffered for his lies, because he flatters himself, and because he likes it. He lies because he is nuttier than squirrel ****, though only half as smart.
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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12th May 2020, 07:51 PM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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12th May 2020, 08:01 PM | #20 |
Philosopher
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12th May 2020, 08:02 PM | #21 |
Nasty Woman
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12th May 2020, 08:27 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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12th May 2020, 08:33 PM | #23 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Remember how kids will claim the most outrageous things to impress their peers?
Trump is a kid on a playground desperate to be respected by everyone, especially the Rich Kids, the Cool Kids, the Smart Kids and, of course, the Girls. And since he isn't very good at anything, he blows himself up like a pufferfish to look more impressive. |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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12th May 2020, 08:34 PM | #24 |
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Because he is profoundly stupid, astonishingly ignorant, wholly unaware about his stupidity and ignorance -- intellectually more like an animal than a human being -- combined with a very high opinion of his non-existent qualities, a singular lack of integrity, and a compulsion to air his ridiculous opinions. A dishonest windbag who loves the sound of his own voice.
Quote:
We're probably programmed to becoming inured to anything and everything over time, no matter how wholly monstrous at first blush. A survival trait, probably? What is astonishing to me is how so MANY people STILL continue to SUPPORT this ... this unbelievable monstrosity. What this says about 'us' is what is very, very disturbing. |
12th May 2020, 08:37 PM | #25 |
Maledictorian
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At the core, Trump has based his life on a misunderstanding of the phrase:" fake it till you make it".
He thinks it means that once you are able to fake doing something it's just like actually doing it. |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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12th May 2020, 08:44 PM | #26 |
I lost an avatar bet.
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Yes, a sane person could follow the rules, but I don’t know if a sane person could ever do it as forcefully, as confidently, and as quickly as Chief Lies-a-Lot.
ETA A sane person playing a game could have handled the press briefing with the why-is-it-a-competition question. But that question was beyond POTUS. MORE ETA: The line on the weather map is the best example of a mental disorder. |
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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12th May 2020, 08:59 PM | #27 |
I lost an avatar bet.
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Demonstrably false to whom? You will have a devil of a time convincing his followers that his claims can easily be demonstrated to be false with widely-accepted and well-documented facts. The guy spends 20-60 minutes every day and 50-70 minutes every rally hammering home the message that everyone but him is a liar. The US press, the foreign press, foreign leaders - they are all liars. FFS, he has even convinced his followers that the CIA, the NSA, DHS, the FBI are all liars out to get him (OMG, the Deep State is After me!!11!). |
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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12th May 2020, 09:06 PM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
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It stuns me. I haven't liked a single Republican president of my life time. But I understood their appeal. Trump is truly a despicable human being absent of any redeeming character I can see. I have never seen a single person in my entire life more self centered, more rude and more dishonest.
A very distant second was one of my older brothers who lied and exaggerated a lot. The difference being, my brother went to prison and deserved it. Trump is much worse and the country made him President. I don't get it. |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 09:19 PM | #29 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,710
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Yes he does. But that doesn't mean that his lies are not demonstrably false.
You really have to do a reality check when someone says everybody, but you are lying. Trump has often contradicted a lie he told earlier in the same press conference. You don't need "fake news" to tell you Trump lies, you can view many many of his the lies on video. Big trouble on day one when he grotesquely talked about the crowds at his inauguration and the pictures contradicted him. His own staff contradicts him. We've watched it over and over during this pandemic. |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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12th May 2020, 10:27 PM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I agree. For him there is no such thing as reality (and no such thing as morality). He just says what he believes, or wants to believe at that moment and in his head it becomes reality.
A little like Shiva, as Lord Nataraja, dances the world into existence, Trump’s thoughts create his world as he thinks them. Okay that was a reach. Trump is more like the demon of confusion and ignorance on which Shiva stands during the dance. |
12th May 2020, 10:54 PM | #31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
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I don't believe Trump is insane. Not at all. But he is mentally ill. The two are not synonymous.
Interestingly, a study was done concerning the acceptance of lying. Unsurprisingly, people with a right-wing authoritarian mindset are much more accepting of politicians lying: Why So Many Trump Supporters Are OK With the President's Lies
Quote:
Quote:
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13th May 2020, 12:12 AM | #32 |
I lost an avatar bet.
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Another trait of his is that he is always accusing others of doing things that he has already done or of things he wants to do.
I suppose it could be something that he is consciously doing. But I suspect (with no medical qualifications at all) that he is rather incapable of understanding that other people might have a moral code that prevents them from considering these actions. Also, his attitude about loyalty also indicates a self-centeredness that may rise to the level of a mental disorder. He expects everyone to be loyal to him and to display that loyalty by agreeing with him unquestioningly. But that loyalty is a one way street. He never displays loyalty to others if it inconveniences him in any way. |
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I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly. |
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13th May 2020, 01:52 AM | #33 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Pathological lying: Psychopathy (Wikipedia)
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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13th May 2020, 02:18 AM | #34 |
Fiend God
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13th May 2020, 03:38 AM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh, absolutely. There's always been those who forego facts to achieve some goal, with a kind of "the end justifies the means" approach, but this is the first time in modern times we've had such a person as POTUS, and he seems to have caused a heck of a lot of them to come out of the woodwork.
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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13th May 2020, 04:33 AM | #36 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,825
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People seem to forget that Trump was elected!!
Why did America elect a known liar? It would be expected that by now his approval rating would be near zero but it is not. His approval rating is almost the same since before he was elected President which means America is satisfied with the known liar? Why does a known liar appeal to America? Who has really gone mad- Trump or America?? |
13th May 2020, 04:45 AM | #37 |
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Because a tipping point, not necessarily a majority but a tipping point of voters localized in areas with out of balance political power due to how our system is set up (electoral college, first past the post voting, gerrymandering, etc) are reliant on facts no longer mattering in order to maintain their core identifies.
You can't think the Earth is younger than 6,000 years, that climate change isn't real, that Hillary Clinton is running a pizza parlor child sex dungeon, that the world is secretly run by a cabal of elite pedophiles, in the "Deep State,"or any of a number of other insane fantasies and be intellectually... whole. At the end of the day the core of what happened is enough people finally had to choose between retaining their opinion or rejecting the very concept of factual correctness and a lot of them chose the latter. We're in a very, very weird time because "Well I'm just going to be wrong" still isn't something most people are willing to say; either to other people or themselves. So they are trying, desperately, to find a way to say it without saying it. What we are seeing now is the great masses of factually wrong people trying to agree on a code word, a euphemism, a rationalization they can all agree on. If we let them solidify a central mentality around "Well I'm not factually correct but that doesn't matter" it will truly be over. Facts will no longer matter. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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13th May 2020, 05:11 AM | #38 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
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Except that, after decades of arguing with conspiracy theorists and truthers, it's become clear that there is a certain percentage of the population who actually, literally, cannot see things that contradict their beliefs, even when it's right in front of them. I mean this literally. There were several examples of CT videos wherein the video presenter was narrating what was seen on the screen, and their narration was completely at odds with what was being shown in the video. There was one video (I think it was of the Madrid Towers fire), where the truther says something like "...and the steel framing was completely unharmed!" at exactly the same moment the video showed the complete collapse of the steel framing. And what the election of Trump, and the continued levels of support for Trump, shows is that the CT segment of our population is larger than we ever suspected. We're at a point where 30-40% of the US population actually believes that the entire intelligence apparatus of the US is involved in a plot to take down Trump at the behest of Obama. This is an argument we cannot win, because the people we are arguing with are literally incapable of understanding arguments. |
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Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
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13th May 2020, 05:17 AM | #39 |
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And that's the thing I keep coming back to, how... absolutely not new this is to anyone who's been a skeptic for a while.
You really want an answer to "Why did Trump happen?" Because of a generation of "Oh come on now just let people believe what they want, why do you have to be right all the time, they aren't hurting anybody, just ignore them." |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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13th May 2020, 06:35 AM | #40 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
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It goes deeper than that Trump feeds on a Type of Racist American Nationalism, and Taps into people's fears and conspiracy theories that have been seen even when this Forum was Jref,. Fear of Communist China, Low wage earners taking American Jobs and Out competiting Americans, thieft of intellectual property and other like issues.
There are many reasons Trump can get away with Lying and many people I talk to locally just reply the Deep State and Soros owned media Lie more than Trump. It's a class if cutures actually, Brains against conspiracy theories. |
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