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2nd December 2015, 03:53 PM | #721 |
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"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd |
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2nd December 2015, 03:55 PM | #722 |
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"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd |
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2nd December 2015, 04:03 PM | #723 |
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I did not say the site was disreputable. I said the site simplifies complex physics. You have read the simplified version and "intuited" something that simply is not supported by the underlying science.
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2nd December 2015, 04:08 PM | #724 |
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"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd |
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2nd December 2015, 04:08 PM | #725 |
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2nd December 2015, 05:32 PM | #726 |
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I went back and read the article, you didn't answer my question. The article was very explicit about what they were looking for, the holographic nature of space time. They are looking for gravity waves. Not only does this indicate that what we perceive is illusory but you could use this research and apply it to further study for potential time travel.
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2nd December 2015, 06:25 PM | #727 |
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2nd December 2015, 06:28 PM | #728 |
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2nd December 2015, 09:36 PM | #729 |
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"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd |
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2nd December 2015, 09:37 PM | #730 |
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"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd |
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2nd December 2015, 09:51 PM | #731 |
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No.
You bring up "gravity waves" because you quickly Googled that gravitational waves are measured by interferometry, and the experiment proposed in your article also uses interferometry. What you don't realize, because you don't know anything about this science, is that interferometry is a reasonably generic technique that can be applied to many problems. You don't realize that gravitational waves exist at the cosmological scale while the hypothesized effect exists at Planck scale. They have as much in common as a mouse turd has with a forest. You're trying to paste your folk-physics nonsense onto this article. You've found a nice shiny new piece of physics, simplified for you by a popular e-zine, and just as before you think it somehow supports your preconceived model of the universe.
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2nd December 2015, 09:54 PM | #732 |
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All science alters theories. New and revised theories is the the one and only product of science. You can't argue that if it turns out a certain way, your "dimensions" beliefs hold any water. You're still operating according to your premise that your concept of dimensions has any basis whatsoever in real physics.
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2nd December 2015, 10:02 PM | #733 |
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If you reread my responses since posting the link, I think you'll see that I stated that it doesn't support any concept of consciousness, that's all.
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2nd December 2015, 10:13 PM | #734 |
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3rd December 2015, 02:34 AM | #735 |
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Dodge noted. Why should I post anything about the article in a question about how you interpreted the article? I was asking for your explanation of how what you posted linked in any way to the article. That fact that you refuse to answer on an invented point of order speaks volumes....
So are you now backtracking on what you originally said, following your schooling (yet again ) by JayUtah? Because you clearly said it was about consciousness in your first post. I also can't see any post of yours where you state that it "doesn't support any concept of consciousness". Perhaps you could repost it? Given the difficulty of communicating with you, I can see why people might get emotional. Is this something you intentionally try to provoke, or just an unintentional side-effect of your debating style? Something to think about.... |
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3rd December 2015, 04:01 AM | #736 |
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...What has ANY of this to do with a "new" take on NDE?
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3rd December 2015, 07:28 AM | #737 |
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3rd December 2015, 10:42 AM | #738 |
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3rd December 2015, 11:08 AM | #739 |
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3rd December 2015, 11:09 AM | #740 |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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3rd December 2015, 01:00 PM | #741 |
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3rd December 2015, 01:31 PM | #742 |
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5th December 2015, 04:54 PM | #743 |
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Many people with trauma of various types see the same entoptic patterns, independent of each other. So maybe you can tell tell us how psychological stress, threshold consciousness (hypnagogia), insulin hypoglycemia, the delirium of fever, epilepsy, psychotic episodes, advanced syphilis, sensory deprivation, photostimulation, electrical stimulation, crystal gazing, migraine headaches, dizziness and a variety of drug-induced intoxications consistently propel the soul into other dimensions.
Do you really believe that drugs such as mescaline allows your soul to leave its body? Here is a link and quote on some common entoptic patterns, which are called form factors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_constant 'A form constant is one of several geometric patterns which are recurringly observed during hallucinations and altered states of consciousness. … Klüver's form constants have appeared in other drug-induced and naturally-occurring hallucinations, suggesting a similar physiological process underlying hallucinations with different triggers. Klüver's form constants also appear in near-death experiences and sensory experiences of those with synesthesia. Other triggers include psychological stress, threshold consciousness (hypnagogia), insulin hypoglycemia, the delirium of fever, epilepsy, psychotic episodes, advanced syphilis, sensory deprivation, photostimulation, electrical stimulation, crystal gazing, migraine headaches, dizziness and a variety of drug-induced intoxications.[1] These shapes may appear on their own or with eyes shut in the form of phosphenes, especially when exerting pressure against the closed eyelid.[2] It is believed that the reason why these form constants appear has to do with the way the visual system is organized, and in particular in the mapping between patterns on the retina and the columnar organization of primary visual cortex. Concentric circles in the retina are mapped into parallel lines in visual cortex. Spirals, tunnels, lattices and cobwebs map into lines in different directions. This means that if activation spreads in straight lines within the visual cortex, the experience is equivalent to looking at actual form constants.[1] Author Michael Moorcock once observed in print that the shapes he had seen during his migraine headaches resembled exactly the form of fractals. The diversity of conditions that provoke such patterns suggests that form constants reflect some fundamental property of visual perception.' Squeeze your eyes really tight and then relax them, keeping your eyes closed. You will see some entoptic patterns frequently attributed to OBEs. The optic nerve of all human beings was shaped by millions of years of natural selection. The inborn connections are common to all human beings. So stress excites these patterns which go to the brain. I predict that you will avoid all discussion of entoptic patterns. I am not certain, but |
6th December 2015, 01:47 AM | #744 |
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7th December 2015, 10:09 AM | #745 |
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OBE doesn't just include optical hallucinations. Hallucinations can be auditory, too. Auditory hallucinations are often associated with very physical causes, such as drugs and head trauma. Simple stress can cause a person to 'hear' voices and music.
Auditory hallucinations also have common 'themes' common among humans in different cultures. Further, not all these hallucinations are associated with mental illness. Sometimes, the mysterious voice manifests the 'internal dialog' that sane people have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audito...c_symptomology ‘A paracusia, or auditory hallucination,[1] is a form of hallucination that involves perceiving sounds without auditory stimulus. Auditory hallucinations need to be distinguished from endaural phenomena in which sounds are heard without any external acoustic stimulation but arise from disorders of the ear or auditory system. A common form of auditory hallucination involves hearing one or more talking voices. This may be associated with psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia or mania, and holds special significance in diagnosing these conditions.[2] However, individuals may hear voices without suffering from diagnosable mental illness.[3] There are three main categories into which the hearing of talking voices can often fall: a person hearing a voice speak one's thoughts, a person hearing one or more voices arguing, or a person hearing a voice narrating his/her own actions.[4] These three categories do not account for all types of auditory hallucinations. Other types of auditory hallucination include exploding head syndrome and musical ear syndrome. In the latter, people will hear music playing in their mind, usually songs they are familiar with. Reports have also mentioned that it is also possible to get musical hallucinations from listening to music for long periods of time.[5] This can be caused by: lesions on the brain stem (often resulting from a stroke); also, sleep disorders such as narcolepsy, tumors, encephalitis, or abscesses.[6] Other reasons include hearing loss and epileptic activity. … Auditory hallucinations have been known to manifest as a result of intense stress, sleep deprivation, drug use, and errors in development of proper psychological processes.[clarification needed][27] Genetic correlation has been identified with auditory hallucinations,[25] but most work with non-psychotic causes of auditory hallucinations is still ongoing.[27][28] High caffeine consumption has been linked to an increase in the likelihood of experiencing auditory hallucinations. A study conducted by the La Trobe University School of Psychological Sciences revealed that as few as five cups of coffee a day could trigger the phenomenon. …’ Coffee? |
7th December 2015, 10:20 AM | #746 |
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People whose physical brain is in a pathological state.
www.mdpi.com/journal/brainsci/ brainsci-03-00642.pdf Brain Sci. 2013, 3, 642-669; doi:10.3390/brainsci3020642 ‘Auditory verbal hallucinations (AVH) are subjective perceptions of external speech in the absence of external stimuli. They are strongly associated with, and the most common symptom in, schizophrenia—usually intrusive, unintentional, unwanted and distressing—with a one month prevalence of about 70% [1], and are refractory to pharmacological management in about a third of such patients [2]. However AVH are not diagnostic of schizophrenia and occur in other mental illnesses including borderline personality disorder [3], depression, bipolar affective disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, substance misuse and neuropsychiatric disorders such as dementia, Parkinson’s disease and epilepsy [4]. ‘ One can see the damage in a person's brain with an MRI. I don't think the brain of someone who is in a state close to dying works better than a 'healthy person' with extreme schizophrenia. |
1st March 2016, 05:44 AM | #747 |
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About near death experiences:
These experiences can't be. This does not comply with what we have learned how things work. This can not be. What about the laws of physics doesn't this break the laws? I believe there is a master plan that is a perfect mathematical and logical plan. The plan makes sense from every perspective and angle. Is the experience difficult to express in words? Anything that someone never experienced before is hard to explain. Describe the color blue! Well it's in the 450nm-490nm range but that says nothing about how you experience the color blue. In order to know how it is to see blue, you have to be a human or an animal with similar physiology. |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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1st March 2016, 06:19 AM | #748 |
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An experiencer about spacetime-experience:
The 'oneness', the place of love, peace, understanding and knowledge of all is also the place where time does not exist. All of what we humans call 'time' is present in this 'oneness'. Isn't that the 'spacetime' of Einstein? |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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1st March 2016, 07:02 AM | #749 |
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1st March 2016, 07:11 AM | #750 |
a carbon based life-form
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1st March 2016, 07:38 AM | #751 |
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So you experience time by not experiencing it? Something is missing there.
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1st March 2016, 09:31 AM | #752 |
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1st March 2016, 11:12 AM | #753 |
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Alright, so it appears that you got that text: "The 'oneness', the place of love, peace, understanding and knowledge of all is also the place where time does not exist. All of what we humans call 'time' is present in this 'oneness'.":
..... from here, without proper attribution but with apparent false representation as a 'spacetime-experience'. Where do you get this as a 'spacetime-experience'? Or is it just your way of attempting to associate a belief in an afterlife with Einstein? |
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1st March 2016, 02:59 PM | #754 |
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No!
I don't remember Einstein, nor any of the experimental scientists who investigated relativity, referring to a place of love, peace, understanding and knowledge. I remember them talking a lot about measurements of time, though. Your 'space time experience' is not the space time of Einstein. I never heard the phrase 'space-time experience' before. You started the thread by claiming that experiences common to most human beings couldn't be hallucinations. I mentioned a counterexample referred to as entoptic patterns. I pointed out that entoptic patterns are hallucinations shared by most human beings. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11014962 You changed the topic. What you are talking about now has nothing to do with out of body experiences. I predicted that you would not address entoptic patterns. I was right! |
1st March 2016, 03:28 PM | #755 |
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Studies show that 100% of the NDE described by colorblind people have problems describing the color or red and green bow ties of doctors in the operating room. However, blue bow ties are described correctly!
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2nd March 2016, 03:38 AM | #756 |
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2nd March 2016, 04:16 AM | #757 |
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3rd March 2016, 12:28 PM | #758 |
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Natty Doctor Experiences.
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4th March 2016, 06:33 AM | #759 |
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Let's give some evidence:
"I spoke with Rajaa Benamour from Casablanca, who spoke much better English than I did French. She had a really fascinating NDE which she described during one of the debate sessions. Her NDE occurred when she had a bad reaction to an anaesthetic. When she was talking to me she explained that she was wearing sunglasses indoors because since her NDE (like many NDErs I have spoken to) she had developed light sensitivity and the light was hurting her eyes. Her NDE wasn’t described in full as I suspect it may have taken the full two days of the conference to communicate all that she experienced. She is in the process of writing a book on her experience but she estimates that it will be in three volumes because of the depth to which her experience took her. What she experienced was incredible. Her description sounded as if she had tuned into the collective unconscious and experienced the birth of the universe. She also experienced things at a quantum level. Since her recovery she has acquired intellectual abilities she did not have before and she has begun studying quantum physics at university level. What was really interesting to me is that her tutor from the university (I think he was a Professor of Physics) was interviewed for the conference. He stated that Rajaa had come to him with some papers she had written about quantum physics and he was shocked by her knowledge as she had not previously studied this. He went on to say that this knowledge could not have been attained through undertaking a booster course in this subject. In fact in some of Rajaa’s papers he did not understand what she had written but later discovered newly published papers which supported her work. Rajaa continues to study quantum physics." Dr. Penny Sartori. |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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4th March 2016, 06:38 AM | #760 |
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