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4th March 2016, 07:28 AM | #761 |
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So, we just have to wait for the book, and we have knowledge about quantumphysics like never before...
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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4th March 2016, 07:52 AM | #762 |
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Evidence of what, exactly?
AFAIK no-one disputes that people have NDEs, or that they are sometimes profoundly changed by them. It's claims that they are evidence of an afterlife, or that one's 'soul' can leave the body and return during them, that are disputed. Becoming better able to grasp abstract physics does not fall into either category. It would certainly be interesting, but it isn't unprecedented for someone who suffers brain trauma to emerge from the experience with enhanced abilities (artistic or musical most commonly, IIRC). |
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4th March 2016, 08:15 AM | #763 |
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But he said it was evidence. It was proper hoc, it was. Ergo facto. Ex ziggly zacto.
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4th March 2016, 09:52 AM | #764 |
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Maartenn100, why do you post useless anecdotes if the question below is still outstanding?
Where did you get the 'spacetime-experience'?: |
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Last edited by Daylightstar; 4th March 2016 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Link embedded in "useless anecdotes". |
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4th March 2016, 09:54 AM | #765 |
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4th March 2016, 10:03 AM | #766 |
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4th March 2016, 01:49 PM | #767 |
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This is clear evidence:
"He (The professor in physics) stated that Rajaa had come to him with some papers she had written about quantum physics (based on her NDE experiences) and he was shocked by her knowledge as she had not previously studied this. He went on to say that this knowledge could not have been attained through undertaking a booster course in this subject. In fact in some of Rajaa’s papers he did not understand what she had written but later discovered newly published papers which supported her work." The professor was shocked by her knowledge. Later discoved newly published papars supported her work (based on her NDE experience) What more evidence do you need????!!! |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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4th March 2016, 02:14 PM | #768 |
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4th March 2016, 02:27 PM | #769 |
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4th March 2016, 02:44 PM | #770 |
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Quote:
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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4th March 2016, 02:52 PM | #771 |
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You have a report of a conversation in which the opinion of an anonymous academic was quoted. You don't even give a link to the source of the report. How can you possibly imagine that this qualifies as evidence of anything?
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4th March 2016, 02:55 PM | #772 |
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4th March 2016, 02:56 PM | #773 |
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4th March 2016, 02:59 PM | #774 |
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4th March 2016, 03:00 PM | #775 |
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4th March 2016, 03:09 PM | #776 |
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4th March 2016, 03:24 PM | #777 |
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Why do I have a feeling that Maartenn himself will now bring up the "fallacy of argument from authority" to indict mainstream science as a source of information or validity? "Oh, you are just sheep blindly following people who claim that they are experts! That's why you reject my ideas!"
As usual, this ignores two things: 1. Science is not accepted due to who advocates it, but due to the match between a theory and the relevant real world observations/experimental results. We accept the theory of Relativity not because Einstein was the one to propose it, but because it has been repeatedly proven true in experimental tests. In fact, Einstein was a patent clerk when he first devised his ideas, and he had little or no personal authority in the world of physics at the time. 2. Second, it is not a fallacy to give weight to the views of an authority IN THE RELEVANT AREA; the fallacy is giving weight to an authority in one area when judging a concept in another area. A law professor is likely to be an expert in law, but probably not in car manufacturing. That said, people are people and even the views of an apparently relevant authority are usually evaluated to see if they match the views of other authorities in that area. Every field has several weird former-experts who have gone "off the deep end" and are now largely ignored because their views no longer fit experimental fact. |
4th March 2016, 03:31 PM | #778 |
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4th March 2016, 03:33 PM | #779 |
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The source is probably here:
https://drpennysartori.wordpress.com...seille-france/ although the text can be found elsewhere also. |
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4th March 2016, 03:34 PM | #780 |
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4th March 2016, 04:26 PM | #781 |
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..................................
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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4th March 2016, 04:56 PM | #782 |
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5th March 2016, 03:03 AM | #783 |
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5th March 2016, 01:25 PM | #784 |
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http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/9361...antum-physics/
I have not read every post on this thread, so I apologize if his name has been mentioned. Dr. Russ Hugenot gives lectures on NDE's and has written at least one book on the topic. Truthfully, the book was over my head, and difficult for me to understand. I did agree to attend a lecture he gave when a friend who is a believer in NDE's encouraged me to go. I was not impressed, but many others seem to be. Is anyone here familiar with his work, and also posses an understanding of physics? |
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5th March 2016, 01:49 PM | #785 |
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Seems to be an awful lot of 'ifs, buts, mays and perhapses' and very little substance.
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5th March 2016, 04:50 PM | #786 |
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One thing is clear, he thinks he found a gap for his beliefs, sized 96% of everything:
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/9361...antum-physics/:
Quote:
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6th March 2016, 05:57 AM | #787 |
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Sceptics on this forum argue that there are cultural differences among experiencers and that the cultural and traditional beliefs have an influence on the actual near death experience.
In fact: there are many cases where people change their cultural beliefs about life, the meaning of life, death etc. after their experience of an NDE. |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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6th March 2016, 06:14 AM | #788 |
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6th March 2016, 09:32 AM | #789 |
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Irrelevant. Of course we can change our minds when new experiences occur.
That does not make the experiences something other than cultural. I somehow expect that if masses of Jews, Buddhists and Muslims had converted to Christianity after meeting Jesus, we'd have heard more about it. |
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6th March 2016, 11:09 AM | #790 |
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6th March 2016, 12:02 PM | #791 |
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6th March 2016, 04:07 PM | #792 |
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9th March 2016, 09:57 AM | #793 |
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9th March 2016, 09:58 AM | #794 |
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18th April 2016, 03:01 AM | #795 |
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"John et al. (2001) identified reliable electroencephalographic (EEG) correlates of loss
and recovery of consciousness during general anesthesia. Their results confirmed the standard thinking about anesthesia and EEG, namely, that unconsciousness is associated with a profound reduction in brain activity under anesthesia. Additional results supportive of this conclusion derive from other recent functional imaging studies that have looked at blood flow, glucose metabolism, or other indicators of cerebral activity under general anesthesia (Alkire, 1998; Alkire et al., 2000; Shulman et al., 2003; White & Alkire, 2003). In these studies, brain areas essential to the global workspace are consistently greatly reduced in activity individually and may be decoupled functionally, thereby providing considerable evidence against the possibility that the anesthetized brain could produce clear thinking, perception, or memory. The situation is even more dramatic with regard to NDEs occurring during cardiac arrest, many of which in fact occur also in conjunction with major surgical procedures involving general anesthesia. In four published studies alone, more than 100 cases of NDEs occurring during cardiac arrest were reported (Greyson, 2003; Parnia et al., 2001; Sabom, 1982; van Lommel et al., 2001). Like NDEs that occur with general anesthesia, those that occur in connection with cardiac arrest include the typical features associated with NDEs, including enhanced sensation and mentation, out-ofbody experiences, and visions of deceased acquaintances." In cardiac arrest, even neuronal action-potentials, the ultimate physical basis for coordination of neural activity between widely separated brain regions, are rapidly abolished (Kelly et al., 2007). Moreover, cells in the hippocampus, the region thought to be essential for memory formation, are especially vulnerable to the effects of anoxia (Vriens et al., 1996). In short, it is not credible to suppose that NDEs occurring under conditions of general anesthesia, let alone cardiac arrest, can be accounted for in terms of some hypothetical residual capacity of the brain to process and store complex information under those conditions. A second defense of the mind-brain production theory for NDEs is to suggest that these experiences do not occur during the actual episodes of brain insult, but before or just after the insult, when the brain is more or less functional (Augustine, 2007; Rodabaugh, 1985). However, unconsciousness produced by cardiac arrest characteristically leaves patients amnesic and confused for events immediately preceding and following these episodes (Aminoff et al., 1988; Parnia & Fenwick, 2002; van Lommel et al., 2001). Furthermore, a substantial number of NDEs contain apparent time "anchors" in the form of verifiable reports of events occurring during the period of insult itself. For example, a cardiac-arrest victim described by van Lommel et al. (2001) had been discovered lying in a meadow 30 minutes or more prior to his arrival at the emergency room, comatose and cyanotic, and yet days later, having recovered, he was able to describe accurately various circumstances occurring in conjunction with the ensuing resuscitation procedures in the hospital. Bruce Greyson. So, a person under general anesthesia or cardiac arrest can't possibly experience an NDE according to the current brain-causes-consciousness-model of neurology; Yet many people did experience an NDE under general anestesia. How can you explain that? It falsifies the mind=brain-model of today. |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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18th April 2016, 03:14 AM | #796 |
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This is the explanation of critical thinkers of the 'out of body experience': (it's an extra-odinary theory):
"The mind-brain production theory could attribute the belief that one has witnessed events going on around one’s body to a retrospective imaginative reconstruction based on a persisting ability to hear, even when unconscious, or to the memory of objects or events that one might have glimpsed just before losing consciousness or while regaining consciousness, or to expectations about what was likely to have occurred" (Saavedra-Aguilar & Gómez-Jeria, 1989; Woerlee, 2004). This is not convincing at all. |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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18th April 2016, 06:14 AM | #797 |
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18th April 2016, 07:55 PM | #798 |
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I think you are right Maarten but I have no concrete evidence to back it up, however, there is circumstantial evidence that suggests that there is more to consciousness than we understand. I might be wrong about how it looks from where I'm sitting but I'm not necessarily discounting something because it's qualitative. Ramanujan is a pretty good example of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan |
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19th April 2016, 03:02 AM | #799 |
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How can one establish the existence of consciousness outside of one's self?
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19th April 2016, 05:11 AM | #800 |
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"A second defense of the mind-brain production theory for NDEs is to suggest that
these experiences do not occur during the actual episodes of brain insult, but before or just after the insult, when the brain is more or less functional (Augustine, 2007; Rodabaugh, 1985). However, unconsciousness produced by cardiac arrest characteristically leaves patients amnesic and confused for events immediately preceding and following these episodes (Aminoff et al., 1988; Parnia & Fenwick, 2002; van Lommel et al., 2001). Furthermore, a substantial number of NDEs contain apparent time "anchors" in the form of verifiable reports of events occurring during the period of insult itself. For example, a cardiac-arrest victim described by van Lommel et al. (2001) had been discovered lying in a meadow 30 minutes or more prior to his arrival at the emergency room, comatose and cyanotic, and yet days later, having recovered, he was able to describe accurately various circumstances occurring in conjunction with the ensuing resuscitation procedures in the hospital. (Bruce Greyson) |
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'Where' is the image in the mind? What 'space' is the image in your mind in? Where is the dream? Where is your inner voice? It's not the same spacetime then where the electrical and chemical pulses are in the brain, causing this image or the dream. The image you see in your mind's eye is in a completely different dimension than where the chemistry in the brain is. (Maarten Vergucht) |
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