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Old 4th August 2020, 11:44 AM   #361
zooterkin
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
So you don't know how the app works.

It's not built on centralised, server based, data storage. It uses Bluetooth and the Exposure Notification Service APIs to identify when one person comes in close contact with another on a given day (based on Bluetooth ‘handshakes’ from their devices). This is only logged if people spend more than 15 minutes within two metres distance (more-or-less, it is based on BT).
Then if a person later voluntarily logs in the app that they have been diagnosed with Covid-19, anyone who was in close contact with them would be notified anonymously.

If you are confirmed to have Covid-19 the HSE will ask for consent to collect the random IDs of the persons (well devices really) your phone has logged as being within close contact. This is done via a time-limited SMS code to allow for the data to be transferred.

These identifiers are generated randomly and auto-delete after fourteen days.

There is an entirely voluntary opt-in based Covid Check-In option in the app. You can log if you're feeling healthy that day or if you're displaying any symptoms (and the symptoms checklist includes the six sets).
This will also help give the HSE an idea of the general population’s overall health without revealing specific personal information on users.

Users are asked, not compelled, to provide certain personal information: age, gender and locality. The latter is quite coarse, e.g. Dublin south city, Galway county. No specific addresses. There's a further op-in to provide a contact number or email. Again, this is voluntary.

The server loading in minimal, it's basically a peer-to-peer or decentralised model. Unlike the NHS attempt.
Almost all data sent through the app requires explicit user op-in and consent; these settings can be changed at any time.

It's in use by over a million people and has detected infection.
Good stuff. It would still require support on the server side to work outside Ireland. Offering the app for use is not the same as agreeing to support it in use in other countries.
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Old 4th August 2020, 12:37 PM   #362
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And here is the founder of the KBF movement

https://twitter.com/simondolan/statu...76971009044480

Quote:
Simon Dolan #KBF
@simondolan
Did COVID ever really exist? If it did, why are they now testing for coronavirus?
9:00 PM · Aug 3, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

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Old 4th August 2020, 01:00 PM   #363
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Oh dear...
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Old 4th August 2020, 01:39 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Oh dear...
Would you believe that the replies get increasingly stupider from then on.

SCAMDEMIC and PLANDEMIC are used...
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 4th August 2020, 02:29 PM   #365
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Common sense? Public duty?
Not having a procurement process that goes-:

1) Check if any of our old school chums could use an extra few quid
2) See how many millions of tax payer cash we can give them
3) When they fail to deliver, let them keep the cash
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Old 4th August 2020, 02:34 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Good stuff. It would still require support on the server side to work outside Ireland. Offering the app for use is not the same as agreeing to support it in use in other countries.
Oh absolutely. But the server side aspect is (relatively) tiny; it's orders of magnitude less than a client-server architecture would need. Most of it is off-the-shelf WIS, hosted on Google/Apple cloud platforms.
That said modification has happened for NI (ongoing), Gibraltar (operational), Scotland (planning) and Wales (talks)
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Old 4th August 2020, 03:13 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And here is the founder of the KBF movement

https://twitter.com/simondolan/statu...76971009044480




Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Oh dear...
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Would you believe that the replies get increasingly stupider from then on.

SCAMDEMIC and PLANDEMIC are used...
Covidiocy. It's not just for Americans any more.
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Old 4th August 2020, 03:44 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
So you don't know how the app works.

It's not built on centralised, server based, data storage. It uses Bluetooth and the Exposure Notification Service APIs to identify when one person comes in close contact with another on a given day (based on Bluetooth ‘handshakes’ from their devices). This is only logged if people spend more than 15 minutes within two metres distance (more-or-less, it is based on BT).
Then if a person later voluntarily logs in the app that they have been diagnosed with Covid-19, anyone who was in close contact with them would be notified anonymously.

If you are confirmed to have Covid-19 the HSE will ask for consent to collect the random IDs of the persons (well devices really) your phone has logged as being within close contact. This is done via a time-limited SMS code to allow for the data to be transferred.

These identifiers are generated randomly and auto-delete after fourteen days.

There is an entirely voluntary opt-in based Covid Check-In option in the app. You can log if you're feeling healthy that day or if you're displaying any symptoms (and the symptoms checklist includes the six sets).
This will also help give the HSE an idea of the general population’s overall health without revealing specific personal information on users.

Users are asked, not compelled, to provide certain personal information: age, gender and locality. The latter is quite coarse, e.g. Dublin south city, Galway county. No specific addresses. There's a further op-in to provide a contact number or email. Again, this is voluntary.

The server loading in minimal, it's basically a peer-to-peer or decentralised model. Unlike the NHS attempt.
Almost all data sent through the app requires explicit user op-in and consent; these settings can be changed at any time.

It's in use by over a million people and has detected infection.
I did state I didn’t know how the Irish tech worked. Thanks for the detailed explanation, appreciated. I see it is very different. You do get used to what you use. There’s also an interesting difference between East and West to be examined there in terms of role of state vs individual.

So if it were to be available in the App Store for the UK, without UK or devolved Government co-operation, the anonymous notification should still work, just the bit involving the HSE wouldn’t. Or I suppose it might, but it would be at discretion of the Irish Government which presumably wouldn’t want to do it.

In which case, if you got a big enough group of people using it, it could be very helpful.
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Old 4th August 2020, 04:17 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And here is the founder of the KBF movement

https://twitter.com/simondolan/statu...76971009044480




According to the Sunday Times rich list he is worth £200m. So of course he needed crowd funding of 200k for his legal challenge.

Does he think COVID and coronavirus are unrelated? Actually, forget I asked. I see from the comments that people are quoting AIDS deniers in support of their argument.
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Old Yesterday, 12:07 AM   #370
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The UK Home Affairs Committee, a cross party group of MPs, has claimed that the government made serious errors when it came to UK border policy in the early days of the pandemic.

Quote:
The Home Affairs committee said a lack of border measures earlier in the pandemic was a "serious mistake".

It added ministers had underestimated the threat of importing the virus from Europe as opposed to Asia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53654644

Of course the government refute these allegations and claims it was guided by "the science". Presumably English British science is different to that employed in much of the rest of the developed world.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 AM   #371
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KBF?
Kayak Bass Fishing?
(Yes, that's pretty much the first thing that came up)

ETA: Ah!
Keep Britain Free!

(From one of jimbob's posts on the US covid thread).

Last edited by Tolls; Yesterday at 12:58 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:10 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
KBF?
Kayak Bass Fishing?
(Yes, that's pretty much the first thing that came up)

ETA: Ah!
Keep Britain Free!

(From one of jimbob's posts on the US covid thread).

Sounds suitably astroturfy. Have they been invited on Question Time yet?
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Old Yesterday, 02:19 AM   #373
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I expect there's at least one or two of them who were members of the Revolutionary Communist Party and/or contributors to Spiked (though they are, frankly, one and the same thing), so I wouldn't be surprised to see them on QT...
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Old Yesterday, 03:14 AM   #374
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Sounds like they'd fit well with the elderly lunatic in 2014 who stood up and exhorted everyone to vote against Scotland's independence "in the name of Jesus!" The QT people were tweeting about what wonderful TV he was, instead of being thoroughly embarrassed.
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Old Yesterday, 04:04 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Sounds like they'd fit well with the elderly lunatic in 2014 who stood up and exhorted everyone to vote against Scotland's independence "in the name of Jesus!" The QT people were tweeting about what wonderful TV he was, instead of being thoroughly embarrassed.
Jesus WAS NOT IN FAVOUR OF SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE

I am certain of that, so what's wrong?
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Old Yesterday, 05:21 AM   #376
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Old Yesterday, 07:02 AM   #377
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Uncomfortable forecasts/predictions about Coronavirus this winter in Wales.

Quote:
"We could see a surge in the autumn and then a bigger peak in the winter and that's the most likely scenario that we're planning for,"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53663260
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 AM   #378
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Planning? What's that?
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Old Yesterday, 07:35 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Planning? What's that?
Things such as:

  • Where to spend the winter break.
  • Which companies to award million pound contracts to.
  • Who will be the scapegoat.
  • And of course the most important: a catchy slogan!
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Old Yesterday, 07:40 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Things such as:

  • Where to spend the winter break.
  • Which companies to award million pound contracts to.
  • Who will be the scapegoat.
  • And of course the most important: a catchy slogan!
In this case it's the Welsh government so there is at least some hope that there's some actual planning going on such as:
  • Reinstating Offa's Dyke
  • Installing gates on the Severn Bridges
  • Installing machine-gun nests on the A55
  • Closing off the Llŷn Peninsula to Scousers and Mancs
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Old Yesterday, 08:50 AM   #381
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I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.
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Old Yesterday, 08:53 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.
That is literally "as planned" - the government said there would be no checking.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I'm reading that virtually none of the returnees from abroad who are supposed, suddenly, to be quarantining are actually being checked to see they are where they're supposed to be. The Telegraph describes it as 'a shambles' .

No surprises there, then.
Our friends who came back from Ibiza 30 minutes after quarantine was imposed have been left to their own devices. Fortunately they have taken their responsibilities seriously and not left their home - in part because of a local support network of friends and neighbours who can run errands and do shopping for them.

Their 18 month old springer spaniel isn't happy. He'll enjoy his first walkies on Sunday.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 AM   #384
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Aberdeen went back into partial lockdown about ten minutes ago. Apparently some pubs in the city centre were "heaving" earlier in the afternoon with people desperate to get in some last drinking before the deadline (announced at lunchtime). This is probably a new gold standard for "brain dead".

Next time this happens they probably won't give any warning at all, just drink up and get out.
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That is literally "as planned" - the government said there would be no checking.
Exactly

All credit goes to the government, all blame is placed on the individual.
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