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Tags "A Wilderness of Error" , "Fatal Vision" , errol morris , Jeffrey MacDonald , Joe MacGinniss , murder cases

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Old 16th February 2018, 05:41 AM   #3641
byn63
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Is the above your farewell message?
We should be so lucky!
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:51 AM   #3642
Henri McPhee
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The point is that the MacDonald case court cases were never an excellent court, apart perhaps from the Article 32 proceedings, and neither were the 4th Circuit judges, or most of the Supreme Court judges. It was a legal Woolworths.

There is a bit about this sort of thing in that English Justice book by a solicitor and police court advocate published in 1932:

Quote:
Quarter Sessions has never held a high reputation as a court of justice. In the counties its usefulness or otherwise at the present time depends entirely upon its Chairman. Where Quarter Sessions, as in Warwickshire, is presided over by an eminent barrister, of strong personality, such as Mr R. A. Willes, it forms an excellent court. There are , however, other courts where amateur lawyers, inadequately controlled by their clerks, deal out justice of a very inferior type.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:49 AM   #3643
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You do realize that a 50 year-old quote about a different court, in a different country has equal relevance to the issue of whether the guilty bastard received a fair trial then the colour of my underwear today?
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:15 PM   #3644
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The point is that the MacDonald case court cases were never an excellent court, misc. non-jumping jive snipped
On the contrary, it was a most excellent court. It did what other observers are sometimes incapable of, recognizing a pack of lies when they hear it.
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:16 PM   #3645
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
You do realize that a 50 year-old quote about a different court, in a different country has equal relevance to the issue of whether the guilty bastard received a fair trial then the colour of my underwear today?
Their man crush wears shining armor and rides a unicorn.
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Old 17th February 2018, 07:51 AM   #3646
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Lazy

IMO, the landlord's biggest sin is that he is beyond lazy and he actually seems to embrace this negative tag. I would bet the farm that he hasn't read a quarter of the following CID report.

http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_ma..._final_pt1.pdf

Last edited by JTF; 17th February 2018 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 17th February 2018, 05:30 PM   #3647
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You Can't Expect Me To Read All Of That

The confidence in my wager stems from the landlord's 15 year claim that the CID didn't "properly investigate" this case. If he had the guts to sit down and read that massive report, he would or should be embarrassed by making such a claim.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:14 AM   #3648
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Most of the judges in the MacDonald case were very bad judges. It's scandalous and very unfair on the innocent Jeff Macdonald. That CID reinvestigation, which JTF keeps harping on about, was fabricated and manufactured evidence by people who were not real experts. I can't quite see why the North Carolina Bureau of Investigation were taken off of the case. They were on to Dwight Smith and Pat Reese the day after the MacDonald murders, even if Detective Beasley had to be discredited.
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Old 18th February 2018, 12:31 PM   #3649
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Verification

HENRIBOY: Thanks for allowing me to collect on my wager. Your admission that you've basically ignored the massive CID reinvestigation report forever paints you as a cognitively lazy true crime troll.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old 18th February 2018, 09:22 PM   #3650
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Most of the judges in the MacDonald case were very bad judges. It's scandalous and very unfair on the innocent Jeff Macdonald. That CID reinvestigation, which JTF keeps harping on about, was fabricated and manufactured evidence by people who were not real experts. I can't quite see why the North Carolina Bureau of Investigation were taken off of the case. They were on to Dwight Smith and Pat Reese the day after the MacDonald murders, even if Detective Beasley had to be discredited.
Weak sauce.

You were more passionate 5 years ago. The below song seems appropriate:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:41 AM   #3651
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Most of the judges in the MacDonald case were very bad judges. It's scandalous and very unfair on the innocent Jeff Macdonald. That CID reinvestigation, which JTF keeps harping on about, was fabricated and manufactured evidence by people who were not real experts. I can't quite see why the North Carolina Bureau of Investigation were taken off of the case. They were on to Dwight Smith and Pat Reese the day after the MacDonald murders, even if Detective Beasley had to be discredited.
first highlight: That has to be the journalist G. Jeffrey Macdonald, because the oxygen in the title of this thread is as guilty as they come.

second highlight: Jurisdiction is the reason. Jurisdiction means that (in this specific case) the crime occurred on FEDERAL property and NCBI investigated crimes that occurred on STATE property.

Observation: this is what happens when the law reference book you use is for another country & 85 years old, you don't understand......
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:28 AM   #3652
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Oops, "oxygen THIEF in this title" for the above. Deleted a word.
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Old 19th February 2018, 04:50 PM   #3653
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Curious

I would like to pose the following questions to 99 percent of the posters on this thread.

Did Jeffrey MacDonald call the Kane residence between 3:20 and 3:30 AM on 2/17/70?

If so, what was inmate's motivation in doing so?

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old 20th February 2018, 05:18 AM   #3654
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There were rumors that Jeff MacDonald had an affair with Mrs. Kane, who was Colonel Kane's wife. MacDonald denied he made a phone call to her in the middle of the night, and there is no real proof that he did. There is also no evidence that her phone number was on the murder club weapon, which was discussed at the grand jury in 1975. The prosecutor could not find the phone number on the wooden club then. It was farcical. I reckon it was somebody like Greg Mitchell, or Mazerolle, or Pat Reese who made the phone call in order to implicate MacDonald. This is what Bunny has written about the matter in the past:

Quote:
Mrs. Kane executed a written statement wherein she discussed certain details of a telephone call she received at her residence at about 3:20-3:30 a.m. on February 17. She said the caller was a male but she could not identify his voice or recall his conversation due to her sleepy state.

Mrs. Kane's telephone number was found written on the wooden club used in the murders.
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Old 20th February 2018, 10:12 AM   #3655
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This matter was briefly mentioned at the Grand Jury in about 1975:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.c...macdonald.html

Quote:
Q Now, I am told that somewhere on this piece of wood, there was a telephone number written, and I have been looking at it to see if I could make out the telephone number.
A Well, the CID probably destroyed it, sir.
Q And I don't find it. But -- did you ever discuss the telephone number being on this club with anyone?
A No, sir.
Q During the course of the investigation?
A Never.
Q Okay.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Miss Reporter, this is the wrapper that that club came in and I am going to put it back in here. Would you mark that as MacDonald Exhibit number 9 of this date?

(MacDONALD EXHIBIT 9, DATED 8-16-1974, MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)

MR. WOERHEIDE: Can you mark this?

Q (Mr. Woerheide) All right, I'm going to ask you about a telephone number, 842-5226. Does it mean anything to you, Dr. MacDonald?
A No, sir.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Miss Reporter, would you mark this as MacDonald Exhibit number 10 of this date?

(MacDONALD EXHIBIT 10, DATED 8-16-1974, MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 20th February 2018 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 20th February 2018, 07:00 PM   #3656
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
snipped
This is what Bunny has written about the matter in the past:
Would that be Easter or Playboy?

Knowing your body of work it's probably safe to say it's the imaginary entity.
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Old 21st February 2018, 06:35 AM   #3657
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JTF - I think it is probable that inmate called the Kane residence that early morning. I don't think he said anything but hung up when he had a fleeting rational thought moment of "what the hell am I doing, what can I possibly say?". I believe he realized that the apartment would clearly show that he and Colette had fought and that he had destroyed his family and he wandered into the living room, sat down on the couch, and was crying in frustration and fear due to what he had just done. (remember a neighbor heard crying) and then he spotted the magazine with the Manson article and he set about staging the scene.....my 2 cents worth
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Old 21st February 2018, 05:18 PM   #3658
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Thanks

BYN: Thanks for the response. Your theory that inmate hung up the phone would explain Mrs. Kane's claim that she had no memory of the content of the phone call. IMO, there are too many finite details of this scenario that go beyond mere coincidence. The timing of the phone call, the fact that the caller was male, and the Kane's phone number being written on the murder club in pencil make a strong case for inmate calling the Kane residence shortly after committing these brutal murders.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old Yesterday, 05:47 AM   #3659
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Originally Posted by JTF View Post
BYN: Thanks for the response. Your theory that inmate hung up the phone would explain Mrs. Kane's claim that she had no memory of the content of the phone call. IMO, there are too many finite details of this scenario that go beyond mere coincidence. The timing of the phone call, the fact that the caller was male, and the Kane's phone number being written on the murder club in pencil make a strong case for inmate calling the Kane residence shortly after committing these brutal murders.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
I have always believed it was probable that he indeed called Mrs. Kane. I believe he was having an affair with her, I believe he at first thought to ask for help, and then he re-thought the situation. I believe the crying was an hysterical reaction to what he had done and his need to "be in charge" and then he saw the Manson article magazine and his EGO said "you can outfox everyone blame it on hippy intruders and you are golden". Thankfully he ain't as smart as he believed himself to be.....he has been shown to be the cowardly smarmy b@$t@rd that savagely and brutally butchered his family.
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM   #3660
Henri McPhee
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That's just opinions. A witness in court must speak only as to facts, not some very emotional strange belief. This is what JTF has said about the Mrs. Kane phone call on his website. It is certainly not conclusive evidence to put a man into prison for the rest of his life. The police should be more careful about arresting and charging people, instead of shooting them dead, or allowing sick people to die in police custody:

Quote:
The Phone Call

The CID Reinvestigation revealed the following:

Mrs. Joan T. Kane, wife of the former commanding officer of Jeffrey MacDonald, executed a written statement wherein she discussed certain details of a telephone call she received at her residence on February 17, 1970. Mrs. Kane states that the call was between 3:20 and 3:30 in the morning. She said the caller was a male, but she could not identify his voice or recall the conversation due to her sleepy state.

Mrs. Kane stated that she only met Jeffrey MacDonald on one or two occasions and, in her opinion, his lawyers used legal trickery and deception in defending him.

The significance of this call lay in the fact that Mrs. Kane's phone number was written in pencil on the murder club and that CID investigators were convinced that MacDonald had a sexual relationship with the wife of another of his commanding officers. This led to speculation that MacDonald may have had a sexual relationship with Mrs. Kane.

At the Grand Jury hearings, Victor Woerheide confronted MacDonald with the fact that the Kane's phone number was written on the club in pencil. He then asked MacDonald whether he called the Kane residence on the morning of February 17th. MacDonald denied contacting Mrs. Kane, nor was he aware that the Kane's phone number was written on the club. CID investigators did not believe that this was simply some sort of bizarre coincidence, but they did not have enough corroborative data to prove that the male caller was Jeffrey MacDonald.
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Old Yesterday, 10:25 AM   #3661
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So henri once again shows his ignorance by proving our point. Inmate called Mrs. Kane at her residence and then hung up. Evidence PROVES this (1) call happened (2) Mrs. Kane admitted as much (3) caller was male (4) Kane phone number on the murder club....evidence evidence evidence - these FACTS are NOT opinion they are FACTS aka EVIDENCE
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Old Yesterday, 02:49 PM   #3662
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Busy Dude

BYN: Beginning with his visit to Fire Island in the Summer of 1969, inmate was one busy dude.

- Inmate meets 4 people acquainted with his brother who just happen to match the descriptions of the mythical hippie home invaders.

- Inmate was having sexual relationships with several women including the wife of Colonel Kingston and a 19 year old girl who lived in the neighborhood.

- Inmate was working a full ER shift, he had two moonlighting jobs, and he was seeking a third moonlighting job just prior to the murders.

- Inmate was planning a romantic getaway with his former high school flame with the ruse being a trip to Russia to serve as the team's physician.

No wonder that at 3:30 in the morning on 2/17/70, his lack of impulse control caused him to call Mrs. Kane at her home. By that time, his brain was a mountain of scrambled eggs.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM   #3663
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
That's just opinions. A witness in court must speak only as to facts, not some very emotional strange belief. This is what JTF has said about the Mrs. Kane phone call on his website. It is certainly not conclusive evidence to put a man into prison for the rest of his life. The police should be more careful about arresting and charging people, instead of shooting them dead, or allowing sick people to die in police custody:
FIFY and the bolded is the sum total of your argument.

Any word on which Bunny that quote came from? Easter is the odds-on favorite but if it's Playboy we need to see photographic proof.
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Old Yesterday, 08:06 PM   #3664
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Thorn In His Side

BStrong: Bunny is a fellow MacDonald Case researcher who assisted me in constructing my website. For a decade plus, Bunny was a major thorn in Henriboy's side, and she was the first researcher to discover that Henri posted on several true crime forums under several different tags. She eventually grew bored with the landlord's parlor games and decided to no longer feed the beast.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old Yesterday, 08:34 PM   #3665
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Originally Posted by JTF View Post
BStrong: Bunny is a fellow MacDonald Case researcher who assisted me in constructing my website. For a decade plus, Bunny was a major thorn in Henriboy's side, and she was the first researcher to discover that Henri posted on several true crime forums under several different tags. She eventually grew bored with the landlord's parlor games and decided to no longer feed the beast.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Ah, now I understand.
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Old Today, 03:59 AM   #3666
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
So henri once again shows his ignorance by proving our point. Inmate called Mrs. Kane at her residence and then hung up. Evidence PROVES this (1) call happened (2) Mrs. Kane admitted as much (3) caller was male (4) Kane phone number on the murder club....evidence evidence evidence - these FACTS are NOT opinion they are FACTS aka EVIDENCE
Jeff MacDonald was very friendly with the wife and daughter of his original Colonel, Colonel Kingston, and there are some suggestions he knew those females intimately. The ironic thing is at the Article 32 proceedings in 1970 all three of them spoke most highly of Jeff MacDonald. There were always friendly relations and social gatherings between the two families. Colonel Kingston seemed to be a nice chap. His next Colonel, Colonel Kane, was a dour Irishman who did not take kindly to MacDonald seeing his wife. Mrs. Kane was a bit of 'hell hath no fury' like a woman scorned, or being dumped. There is no hard evidence MacDonald phoned Mrs. Kane in the middle of the night. That's just pure speculation.

I'm a bit surprised that there doesn't seem to be documented phone records to prove the matter one way or the other. There would be now.
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Old Today, 05:48 AM   #3667
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
inmate was very friendly with the wife and daughter of his original Colonel, Colonel Kingston, and there are some suggestions he knew those females intimately.
"very friendly" is exactly what we have been pointing out to you. "very friendly" as in he was dropping trou at EVERY available opportunity. He also was VERY FRIENDLY with several daughters of his neighbors, and he had a "hot and heavy" affair during the Article 32 - the indecency of which is that Colette, Kimmie, and Kristy were barely in their graves - inmate has proven often that he is a slime bag.....

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
His next Colonel, Colonel Kane, was a dour Irishman who did not take kindly to MacDonald seeing his wife.
What the hell does Colonel Kane's ethnicity have to do with anything? Nothing at all, your racist, idiotic, slanderous, vicious, petty, scheming, nasty, bilious comments are insulting - knock it off.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Mrs. Kane was a bit of 'hell hath no fury' like a woman scorned, or being dumped.
PROVE IT!

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There is no hard evidence MacDonald phoned Mrs. Kane in the middle of the night. That's just pure speculation.
It is NOT speculation...it is CIRCUMSTANTIAL.

Circumstantial Evidence, by definition, proves a fact from which an inference of the existence of another fact may be drawn. A finding of guilt may be based on circumstantial evidence so long as it cannot be reconciled with any other RATIONAL conclusion.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I'm a bit surprised that there doesn't seem to be documented phone records to prove the matter one way or the other. There would be now.
Why the surpise henri? this happened in the days BEFORE computerized telephone systems. In fact in 1970 it was still amazing that NASA had a computer that could fit into a single room. Yes, there would be records of the calls made from that apartment because there are now COMPUTERIZED telephone systems. Also, the 911 system is now in existence all across the USA so that there would probably be a recording of the call inmate made to the operator.
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Old Today, 09:25 AM   #3668
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
pure speculation.
All their posts boiled down to the essence.
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