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Old 7th April 2022, 06:16 PM   #881
arthwollipot
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Speaking of not ruining my weekend, I'm probably not going to be posting much until after Easter. I'm taking next week off work, for no reason other than I want to. For 4 days annual leave I get a total time of 10 days off work, and that's just good value.
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Old 7th April 2022, 08:06 PM   #882
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Speaking of not ruining my weekend, I'm probably not going to be posting much until after Easter. I'm taking next week off work, for no reason other than I want to. For 4 days annual leave I get a total time of 10 days off work, and that's just good value.
Enjoy!
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Old 7th April 2022, 08:07 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Enjoy!
I'm going to introvert so hard.
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Old 7th April 2022, 08:14 PM   #884
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm going to introvert so hard.
Tell yourself I said hi.
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Old 7th April 2022, 08:20 PM   #885
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Originally Posted by Yalius View Post
I miss the server names we used to have at work. Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Apollo... now we're stuck with DC1, DC2, ZFS01 through ZFS06, etc. Borrrrring.
We used to have lots and lots of different groups, each of which wanted at topic. SF authors, fish, dogs, owls, rivers, etc.. One of them chose Hawaiian peaks.

Typing maunakea and others was passable. But when you're having to query puukukui, konahuanui, and kaunuokaleihoohie with some frequency, you can get annoyed.... Some of us would have welcomed boring.
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Old 8th April 2022, 02:05 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Yalius View Post
I miss the server names we used to have at work. Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Apollo... now we're stuck with DC1, DC2, ZFS01 through ZFS06, etc. Borrrrring.
I once sat through a three hour meeting on Server Naming Conventions for a corporate reorg. Three branches were to merge.
One used SERVER000n
One used <COUNTRY><LOCATION><BUILDING><ROLE><NUMBER>
One used actual names.

Guess which won?
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Old 8th April 2022, 04:45 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
My mentour in software development had a story he used to tell about some massive report he used to run, and asked the recipient what he did with it, and went through a chain of people who said, "I give it to X.". When he got to the final person in the chain and asked him what he did with it, he just pointed to his wastebasket.
My first job at IBM in 84 was installing a system that allowed reports to be viewed online instead of being printed. We'd already upgraded the big 3800 printers to use rolls of lineflow about 8 feet high instead of boxes of paper. And we're wondering if we'd need a 4th printer. As part of the process a guy from the print room started tagging along on deliveries. He was greeted like a hero. One monthly report was shipped as 72 boxes of paper. Only the first page was ever read. They'd been trying to get it stopped for years. The vast bulk were rarely ever read at all when I ran stats on online access
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Old 8th April 2022, 06:08 AM   #888
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I've been writing reports for various things for years now in multiple jobs. I got over the fact that only a fraction of my work is actually looked at at all, and only a fraction of that is actually used for anything...annoying, yes, but I get paid the same whether they use the damn things or not.
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Old 8th April 2022, 06:10 AM   #889
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Close. It's actually the unofficial title of the new version of the SOE. Each SOE update gets an animal mascot. So far we've had wombat, kookaburra, cockatoo and now koala. I'm on koala - it's what I was talking about here. Koala has more security, including multi-factor authentication and no password managers.
Actually, I immediately thought of KoalaTerm, a terminal emulator I used *MUMBLE MUMBLE* years ago.

Then I did a googelz...

http://koala-app.com/
https://tutorialforlinux.com/2020/09...llation-guide/
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala

Plus more...
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Old 8th April 2022, 06:12 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I once sat through a three hour meeting on Server Naming Conventions for a corporate reorg. Three branches were to merge.
One used SERVER000n
One used <COUNTRY><LOCATION><BUILDING><ROLE><NUMBER>
One used actual names.

Guess which won?
Every site with Linux, and this is without exception and it is the law, MUST have a server called "obiwan".
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Old 8th April 2022, 08:53 AM   #891
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I like the idea of naming servers after illicit substances:

"Hey, do you where <vm> is?"
"Yeah, I moved it from cocaine to LSD."

"Where should we host this database?"
"We'll put it on marijuana."

"Yeah, the continuous integration system is on crack."
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Old 8th April 2022, 11:28 AM   #892
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I'm a fan of social engineering names.

We ran a lab of Macintosh systems back in '92 or so (in the same building with the Hawaiian mountains for hostnames). It was much harder back then to isolate or authenticate to printers and we didn't have a charging system set up yet.

There were 3 printers for the public workstations, but there was also one printer upstairs for staff to use. Lab users couldn't access it physically, but they were still on the same appletalk zone.

Some folks would print without checking, or they'd pick a random printer. If the print didn't appear, they'd print again. Even if they finally realized the mistake, if it was in the middle of the night, there were no staff around to pull it off the printer for them. We might have five copies of someone's thesis draft on the printer to get tossed out in the morning. Signs about being careful with your printing didn't help.

I finally renamed the printer "unavailable". Almost completely stopped the phantom prints. Nobody picked that one from the chooser when it was presented.
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Old 9th April 2022, 12:45 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
My online HR system calculates my leave accrual down to 1/100th of a second and displays it in decimal time. An online conversion calculator tells me that right now I have 6 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 41.18 seconds of annual leave accrued.

I find this fact amusingly absurd.
I would submit a request for that 0.18 of a second. If anyone asked it would be "to tidy things up," but really it would be bloody mindedness
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Old 11th April 2022, 09:03 AM   #894
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Dear User: when I say something is "complex" I mean it, and I will respond to your demands for an ETA with a bullet list of questions you have to answer before I can do the work. Today's was eleven bullet points. The first one was "of the attached list of 52,112 components, which ones should be included?" The second one requires separate meetings with five different outside companies to answer. The seventh one is a trap-- if you answer 'Yes' then you are not only making a mistake but granting me retroactive CYA on past actions, but if you answer 'No' then it stops work entirely and undoes the last eighteen months of your own work.

It's complex.
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Old 11th April 2022, 09:10 AM   #895
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I still don't understand why this simple concept is so hard.

There exists a problem. I am attempting to fix the problem. I cannot fix the problem if I am

A) Listening to you complain about the problem
B) Giving you an update on the status of the problem.
C) Being interrupted by yet another someone informing me about the problem for which I am already aware.
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Old 11th April 2022, 12:42 PM   #896
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I still don't understand why this simple concept is so hard.

There exists a problem. I am attempting to fix the problem. I cannot fix the problem if I am

A) Listening to you complain about the problem
B) Giving you an update on the status of the problem.
C) Being interrupted by yet another someone informing me about the problem for which I am already aware.
I usually get "Just looking for an ETA on that recovery?". If I've already given them one my response is often "10 minutes more then the original ETA and add ten minutes for each additional call". If I've just started and don't even have a planed resolution yet, it's often "I don't know, I have to find out what's wrong first and I can't do that while answering the phone."

ETA: Since our vehicles are 12 to 20 ft in the air we use IR remote controls to interact with them. For some commands it takes two buttons. I picked up just a regular universal learning remote and programed in the functions of our recovery remote, now only requiring one button for those two button commands. Now at least for simple recoveries it's not so bad when someone calls, it doesn't have to basically stop the recovery 'till you can get them off the dang phone. Heck, I even programed in some macros so once started I just have to keep the remote pointed at the vehicle.
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Old 11th April 2022, 02:33 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I still don't understand why this simple concept is so hard.

There exists a problem. I am attempting to fix the problem. I cannot fix the problem if I am

A) Listening to you complain about the problem
B) Giving you an update on the status of the problem.
C) Being interrupted by yet another someone informing me about the problem for which I am already aware.
As a trainee sysprog I occasionally had to act as a doorman to stop development managers hassling my team lead when he was working on a problem. "Which would you prefer, an update or a fix?" I nearly had it printed on a sign at one point.
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Old 11th April 2022, 08:59 PM   #898
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I usually get "Just looking for an ETA on that recovery?". If I've already given them one my response is often "10 minutes more then the original ETA and add ten minutes for each additional call". If I've just started and don't even have a planed resolution yet, it's often "I don't know, I have to find out what's wrong first and I can't do that while answering the phone."

ETA: Since our vehicles are 12 to 20 ft in the air we use IR remote controls to interact with them. For some commands it takes two buttons. I picked up just a regular universal learning remote and programed in the functions of our recovery remote, now only requiring one button for those two button commands. Now at least for simple recoveries it's not so bad when someone calls, it doesn't have to basically stop the recovery 'till you can get them off the dang phone. Heck, I even programed in some macros so once started I just have to keep the remote pointed at the vehicle.
What type of vehicle?
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Old 12th April 2022, 08:22 AM   #899
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Dear User: don't ask for something really abstract and ephemeral and then wonder why it's abstract and ephemeral. You wanted, from the set of X which had a Y event between Z and W dates the subset which had had a Q event in the 48 months prior to the date of their individual Y event if and only if on the date of the Y event they hadn't had a T event within the span of 48 to 24 months prior to that Q event -- but only if in the window between today and 24 months ago they'd also had an S event. Congratulations, there were 3691 items that fit. Because it hinges on three different moving windows of time that means the number will change tomorrow, and it will be something else the next day. What can you possibly do with that number? Absolutely nothing: it's too abstract and ephemeral. It is a piece of data that is both completely accurate and entirely useless. It's also precisely what you asked for. So next time ask for something sensible, you insensate crouton.
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Old 12th April 2022, 09:34 AM   #900
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
What type of vehicle?
An Automated Material Handling System vehicle for microchip wafer FOUPs.

This is an animation but gives you the idea.

AMHS for Semiconductor Fabrication Plant

Also it's of one of our competitors stuff.
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Old 12th April 2022, 10:29 AM   #901
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
An Automated Material Handling System vehicle for microchip wafer FOUPs.

This is an animation but gives you the idea.

AMHS for Semiconductor Fabrication Plant

Also it's of one of our competitors stuff.
Very cool. Thanks!
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Old 12th April 2022, 12:26 PM   #902
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It is a piece of data that is both completely accurate and entirely useless.
Reminds of the old joke about a sysprog flying an operator to Austin,TX. Halfway there a bunch of electrics fail and they lose radar and radio so he's flying by sight. Coming in to Austin the area is covered in fog. They see a building with 1 floor above the fog so circle it until someone opens a window and yells "What are you doing?"
"Where are we?" yells the sysprog
"You're in the cockpit of a Cessna 152 light aircraft"
"Thanks" he turn, banks and proceeds to land at the airport.
The op asks how he did it.
"Well the answer was 100% accurate and totally useless so I knew that was the IBM tech support office by Research Boulevard and I knew where the airport was from there".
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Old 12th April 2022, 06:23 PM   #903
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Reminds of the old joke about a sysprog flying an operator to Austin,TX. Halfway there a bunch of electrics fail and they lose radar and radio so he's flying by sight. Coming in to Austin the area is covered in fog. They see a building with 1 floor above the fog so circle it until someone opens a window and yells "What are you doing?"
"Where are we?" yells the sysprog
"You're in the cockpit of a Cessna 152 light aircraft"
"Thanks" he turn, banks and proceeds to land at the airport.
The op asks how he did it.
"Well the answer was 100% accurate and totally useless so I knew that was the IBM tech support office by Research Boulevard and I knew where the airport was from there".
Well not completely useless. I once had a question about the interrupts on the 7044 tape channel controller and after a few days they got back to me that the did not know the answer but they had a customer in Toronto who might and . . . gave . . . my name.
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Old 12th April 2022, 09:41 PM   #904
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: don't ask for something really abstract and ephemeral and then wonder why it's abstract and ephemeral. You wanted, from the set of X which had a Y event between Z and W dates the subset which had had a Q event in the 48 months prior to the date of their individual Y event if and only if on the date of the Y event they hadn't had a T event within the span of 48 to 24 months prior to that Q event -- but only if in the window between today and 24 months ago they'd also had an S event. Congratulations, there were 3691 items that fit. Because it hinges on three different moving windows of time that means the number will change tomorrow, and it will be something else the next day. What can you possibly do with that number? Absolutely nothing: it's too abstract and ephemeral. It is a piece of data that is both completely accurate and entirely useless. It's also precisely what you asked for. So next time ask for something sensible, you insensate crouton.
I've seen that happen... I get asked for something they think is simple. I explain how their request is problematic because there are multiple matches at the level of detail, and they either need a thorough rule for choosing or some kind of aggregation. Then they respond with their rule, and I can tell they're just making it up because now the result won't mean anything anymore.
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Old 13th April 2022, 05:36 AM   #905
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: don't ask for something really abstract and ephemeral and then wonder why it's abstract and ephemeral. You wanted, from the set of X which had a Y event between Z and W dates the subset which had had a Q event in the 48 months prior to the date of their individual Y event if and only if on the date of the Y event they hadn't had a T event within the span of 48 to 24 months prior to that Q event -- but only if in the window between today and 24 months ago they'd also had an S event. Congratulations, there were 3691 items that fit. Because it hinges on three different moving windows of time that means the number will change tomorrow, and it will be something else the next day. What can you possibly do with that number? Absolutely nothing: it's too abstract and ephemeral. It is a piece of data that is both completely accurate and entirely useless. It's also precisely what you asked for. So next time ask for something sensible, you insensate crouton.
The answer is 5.

Are you sure? Check again.

Yep, it is indeed 63 right now.

Wha! You just said it was 5!

No not 5. Now it's exactly 13.

.....what happened to 63?

Well, that would be wrong. The correct answer now is 108.

WHATTHE******INGHELL! JUST GIVE THE THE ONE ANSWER!!

Certainly! ....................1. Are we done now?
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Old 13th April 2022, 02:37 PM   #906
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This is going to run parallel to Tragic Monkey's ongoing gripe but...

If I give you data/information/an answer/an estimate and then YOU CHANGE A MAJOR FACTOR the data/information/answer/estimate is no longer valid. This goes beyond all sense of business or IT into not understanding the most fundamental basics of cause and effect or formal logic.

I quoted you X Price to set up 5 workstations at the home office. The amount of attitude I'm getting because setting up 9 workstations at a remote office is going to cost more is frankly astounding.
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Old 13th April 2022, 04:12 PM   #907
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XKCD explains it all.

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Old 14th April 2022, 03:12 AM   #908
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Pretty much exactly my experience a couple of weeks ago when our broadband connection went down. Person on the support line tried to tell us that our router wasn't a router (it is; however one early search result if you google it says, for some unknown reason, that it isn't). We told them there was no DSL light on the modem, she didn't understand what I was talking about. Engineer came round with no modem or other way of checking the actual connection. Eventually they called out the OpenReach engineer who found the problem in the fibre cabinet (outside in the road, not even on our premises). Sadly there was no shibboleth bypass in place.

end rant...
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Old 14th April 2022, 08:43 AM   #909
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If you're UK based I really recommend Zen tech support. I tell them I've done admin on windows and Unix system and am okay with TCP/IP but clueless with broadband protocols and they talk to me at that level. Better than <big bank> tech support by miles.
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Old 14th April 2022, 08:58 AM   #910
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Technically off topic but I loved this
Quote:
If you have any further queries please don't. Hesitate to contact me.

Is my fave thing to put in emails and if I ever get called out on it's obv a typo but my god no it's not. I meant it how I wrote it. I meant it HARD.
https://twitter.com/MissBoola/status...Em54wv4lA&s=19
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Old 14th April 2022, 09:04 AM   #911
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Technically off topic but I loved this

https://twitter.com/MissBoola/status...Em54wv4lA&s=19
Works on Contingency?

No, Money Down!
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Old 15th April 2022, 04:55 AM   #912
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Pretty much exactly my experience a couple of weeks ago when our broadband connection went down. Person on the support line tried to tell us that our router wasn't a router (it is; however one early search result if you google it says, for some unknown reason, that it isn't). We told them there was no DSL light on the modem, she didn't understand what I was talking about. Engineer came round with no modem or other way of checking the actual connection. Eventually they called out the OpenReach engineer who found the problem in the fibre cabinet (outside in the road, not even on our premises). Sadly there was no shibboleth bypass in place.

end rant...
Yeah, been there, steamrolled over the phone "engineers" to get to someone competent.
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Old 15th April 2022, 10:22 AM   #913
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I had the first part of that conversation with the cable company just yesterday.
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Old 15th April 2022, 07:26 PM   #914
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A friend of ours was having problems with their internet. She was advised to disconnect the power to the modem to restart it.

Now the problem is that the connection between the power supply cable into the modem is not one of those regular, round DC type plugs you just pull. This one had a molex type multi pin adapter with a catch you had to press in to release.

She didn't know about that and they didn't tell her to check. So she just kept pulling till the wires ripped out of the plug. Then she just sort of jammed them back in to power it on again.

I tried to explain to her what had happened but she was just over it by then.

They did, however, send out a new modem for her to install.

I ended up just jamming the wires in myself. That will be an ongoing world of pain.
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Old 17th April 2022, 08:43 AM   #915
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(Quoted from the Pet Peeves in Movies and TV thread -- thought the response would be more appropriat here)
Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Sadly, it's not unrealistic. Some people really are like that IRL. Sadly.

Like, I have a coworker, and he's otherwise a smart guy and all, but if I ask him ANYTHING, I better be prepared for the next half an hour or more to go like, "search for that keyword... press CTRL-F... yeah, now type the keyword there... press ENTER..." Like, Jaysus F Christ, I've only been using this editor for, lemme see, it'll be literally 20 years this June.

He's not even the boss or anything.
I had a lot of problems with some of our documenters/instruction writers being much too verbose.

1. First, you will open the Scheduling application.
2. After the application starts, go to the first field on the screen and enter the person's first name.
3. Then tab to the next field and enter the person's last name.
4. Next you will tab to the next line - DO NOT PRESS ENTER!!! and input the employee's address...
etc., etc.

where my take would be:
Open the Scheduling application and enter the employee's information.
etc.

Sadly, I do know of people that require this level of detail. But this sort of thing was often documented this way for the developers.
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Old 17th April 2022, 08:52 AM   #916
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
(Quoted from the Pet Peeves in Movies and TV thread -- thought the response would be more appropriat here)


I had a lot of problems with some of our documenters/instruction writers being much too verbose.

1. First, you will open the Scheduling application.
2. After the application starts, go to the first field on the screen and enter the person's first name.
3. Then tab to the next field and enter the person's last name.
4. Next you will tab to the next line - DO NOT PRESS ENTER!!! and input the employee's address...
etc., etc.

where my take would be:
Open the Scheduling application and enter the employee's information.
etc.

Sadly, I do know of people that require this level of detail. But this sort of thing was often documented this way for the developers.
Their take guarantees their jobs as they'll need to review and possibly revise for every minor change on that screen. In my experience good tech writers never do this as they are like gold dust and don't have to worry about finding work.
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Old 17th April 2022, 05:39 PM   #917
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Reminds of the old joke about a sysprog flying an operator to Austin,TX. Halfway there a bunch of electrics fail and they lose radar and radio so he's flying by sight. Coming in to Austin the area is covered in fog. They see a building with 1 floor above the fog so circle it until someone opens a window and yells "What are you doing?"
"Where are we?" yells the sysprog
"You're in the cockpit of a Cessna 152 light aircraft"
"Thanks" he turn, banks and proceeds to land at the airport.
The op asks how he did it.
"Well the answer was 100% accurate and totally useless so I knew that was the IBM tech support office by Research Boulevard and I knew where the airport was from there".
I've read the same joke, but it's Redmond, Washington and Microsoft.
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Old 18th April 2022, 07:40 AM   #918
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: when I say something is "complex" I mean it, and I will respond to your demands for an ETA with a bullet list of questions you have to answer before I can do the work. Today's was eleven bullet points. The first one was "of the attached list of 52,112 components, which ones should be included?" The second one requires separate meetings with five different outside companies to answer. The seventh one is a trap-- if you answer 'Yes' then you are not only making a mistake but granting me retroactive CYA on past actions, but if you answer 'No' then it stops work entirely and undoes the last eighteen months of your own work.

It's complex.
Mwah hah hah! Had the first of the five meetings with the outside companies this morning. The requestor is now in shock at the list of elaborate requirements from the first of them, the other four will have equally elaborate but entirely different requirements. Dude really thought this was a "quick email to TM and he'll do it all in a week thing", and now he's realizing this is a six-month project with formal specs, tier after tier of director sign-offs, multiple teams building and testing, and official audits afterwards. And he's got to manage all of it, I'm just the code monkey on this one.

I'm really quite tempted to ask him for an ETA on this now.
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Old 18th April 2022, 09:45 AM   #919
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I've read the same joke, but it's Redmond, Washington and Microsoft.
Or Seattle and Boeing.
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Old 18th April 2022, 10:25 AM   #920
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Mwah hah hah! Had the first of the five meetings with the outside companies this morning. The requestor is now in shock at the list of elaborate requirements from the first of them, the other four will have equally elaborate but entirely different requirements. Dude really thought this was a "quick email to TM and he'll do it all in a week thing", and now he's realizing this is a six-month project with formal specs, tier after tier of director sign-offs, multiple teams building and testing, and official audits afterwards. And he's got to manage all of it, I'm just the code monkey on this one.

I'm really quite tempted to ask him for an ETA on this now.
Tell him you are going on a dream vacation at the end of next year and say you obviously don't want to leave him in a lurch during a critical period for his project so should you cancel it?
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