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Old 17th April 2019, 09:01 PM   #1921
banquetbear
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
So why all the fuss about the link then ?
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
It isn't that they are just "barfing up Associated Press" information. Its that its "barfing it up" then adding an ideological stance and framing.
Quote:
And the "factual" in #1904 ?
It was a sentence that included a link to factual reporting, and it was labeled as such. I suggest before that "you should stop trying to read stuff into what other people are saying and just believe the stuff that they are telling you." This is another case where that advice would be useful. The comments on the Daily Caller and the comment on the Newshub link are two very distinct points. If you were confused by those two very distinct points, then the clarification that The Atheist made when he stated "Not incorrect, just incomplete" should have cleared up any confusion.
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Old 17th April 2019, 10:32 PM   #1922
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
OK so the chat message it the most serious charge, more serious than, presumably, the 14 years he can get for sharing the video.
That appears to be the case.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Of hose 3316 prisoners held on remand, how many would you say are i there for being an idiot on social media ?
Shifted goalposts noted.

You really are determined to post misleadingly, aren't you?

Given that the record shows his charge is related to inciting violence in a case where 50 people were murdered, describing it as "being an idiot on social media" is plain dishonest. We don't know the specifics, and they will be revealed at the trial, so continue to speculate as you wish.
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Old Yesterday, 07:23 AM   #1923
Stout
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
It was a sentence that included a link to factual reporting, and it was labeled as such. I suggest before that "you should stop trying to read stuff into what other people are saying and just believe the stuff that they are telling you." This is another case where that advice would be useful. The comments on the Daily Caller and the comment on the Newshub link are two very distinct points. If you were confused by those two very distinct points, then the clarification that The Atheist made when he stated "Not incorrect, just incomplete" should have cleared up any confusion.

That's not a very skeptical approach, just believe what your told. I'm still trying to find out what's exactly wrong with The Daily Caller. The way this thread is going one could come to the conclusion that it's written by Satan himself, that it's blasphemous and scary.

So the source, Associated Press was "not incorrect, just incomplete" The issue is with AP not TDC.

I wonder what outrage would have happened if I'd used Breitbart ?
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Old Yesterday, 07:31 AM   #1924
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

Shifted goalposts noted.

You really are determined to post misleadingly, aren't you?

Given that the record shows his charge is related to inciting violence in a case where 50 people were murdered, describing it as "being an idiot on social media" is plain dishonest. We don't know the specifics, and they will be revealed at the trial, so continue to speculate as you wish.
Goalposts still firmly planted. This is about severe sentences for saying bad things. You don't know what 18 year old kid said and where, I don't know what 18 year old kid said and where so what makes your speculation any more valid than mine ?

Maybe it's in unfailing trust in your government.

Just for fun...here's the Canadian government totally cocking it up in their eagerness to catch a terrorist.

Quote:
That verdict was thrown out after a Supreme Court justice ruled they were entrapped by RCMP.

The judge said police used deceit and veiled threats to engineer the bomb plot.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 PM   #1925
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That's not a very skeptical approach, just believe what your told.
...taking stuff I've said, changing the context, and then claiming that is "not a very skeptical approach" is not a very skeptical approach. Please stop doing that.

Quote:
I'm still trying to find out what's exactly wrong with The Daily Caller.
Then the quickest way to find out the answer to that question would be to read the answers that have been given to you.

Quote:
The way this thread is going one could come to the conclusion that it's written by Satan himself, that it's blasphemous and scary.
Nope.

Quote:
So the source, Associated Press was "not incorrect, just incomplete" The issue is with AP not TDC.
Nope.

Quote:
I wonder what outrage would have happened if I'd used Breitbart ?
I've expressed no outrage at your decision to post a link to the Daily Caller, so you won't get any outrage from me if you decided to post Breitbart. If you consider the responses to you in this thread to be "outrage" then you need your "outrage calibrator" realigned.
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Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM   #1926
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Excellent. So these good moral principled people who won't click on a Daily Caller link aren't posting in this thread then. There out there, somewhere and should they happen to wander into this thread and see a Daily caller link they'll avoid it, out of principal.

Just testing the waters with the Breitbart thing. These principled people, one or more of them might have serious conniptions if that banner hit their screen.

So where were we then, before all this link stuff came up ?

Something about Trump adhering to the dress code in some church somewhere ?
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Old Yesterday, 04:10 PM   #1927
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Excellent. So these good moral principled people who won't click on a Daily Caller link aren't posting in this thread then. There out there, somewhere and should they happen to wander into this thread and see a Daily caller link they'll avoid it, out of principal.
...I've read this twice, and I cannot parse what the **** you are talking about.

Quote:
Just testing the waters with the Breitbart thing. These principled people, one or more of them might have serious conniptions if that banner hit their screen.
There is nothing to test. There has been no outrage.

Quote:
So where were we then, before all this link stuff came up ?

Something about Trump adhering to the dress code in some church somewhere ?
I have absolutely zero problem keeping up with the thread. If you are having trouble following along can I suggest scrolling back through the thread and re-reading what you and others have written.
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Old Yesterday, 04:18 PM   #1928
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
This is about severe sentences for saying bad things.
Nope. He hasn't been sentenced yet.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
You don't know what 18 year old kid said and where, I don't know what 18 year old kid said and where so what makes your speculation any more valid than mine ?
I haven't speculated, and you just missed a major part of the charges and are now trying to cover up for it with bluster.

In terms of "saying bad things" I imagine Canada has laws against that, too.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Maybe it's in unfailing trust in your government.
Not me, sonny, that's just another of your strawmen. I already offered you a lighter if you want to set fire to them.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Just for fun...
You'll post details of a case that has neither relevance nor commonality with the case in NZ?

You managed it nicely. There is no possibility of entrapment with the NZ case, because the kid had taken his actions prior to police even knowing he existed.

But do keep trying.
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Old Yesterday, 05:43 PM   #1929
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nope. He hasn't been sentenced yet.
No, of course not, nobody is saying he was, but he certainly is facing a stiff sentence as the news media constantly reminds us.

Quote:
I haven't speculated, and you just missed a major part of the charges and are now trying to cover up for it with bluster.
*I* didn't miss it, Associated Press Missed it.
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Old Yesterday, 09:09 PM   #1930
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...you can choose to do that: but if you do choose to do that then you should really stop being surprised that people don't take your citations or your arguments seriously. Many won't click on a Daily Caller link out of principle. It isn't that they are just "barfing up Associated Press" information. Its that its "barfing it up" then adding an ideological stance and framing.
Which is why I won't even bother clicking on links to whacko sites like Breitbart, Daily Caller and Daily Kos

I use this handy chart to determine whether or not I want to click on a link



I get my news from the yellow and green rectangles

NOTE: Daily Caller, along with Fox News and Breitbart, is in the section marked: Nonsense damaging to public discourse - contains propaganda and misleading info.

I really don't want to risk damaging my brain by reading that stuff!
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM   #1931
banquetbear
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Which is why I won't even bother clicking on links to whacko sites like Breitbart, Daily Caller and Daily Kos

I use this handy chart to determine whether or not I want to click on a link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tyd92zfqp...hart.jpg?raw=1

I get my news from the yellow and green rectangles

NOTE: Daily Caller, along with Fox News and Breitbart, is in the section marked: Nonsense damaging to public discourse - contains propaganda and misleading info.

I really don't want to risk damaging my brain by reading that stuff!
...hmmm, interesting. My "cut-off" is the same both sides of the equation,starting from Daily Kos downwards on "the left". I had never heard of "The Daily Nexus" but clicking on their About page and reading "Our content serves the audience of George Takei and beyond" says everything I need to know about never visiting the site again. Seems fairly accurate and while I may quibble a couple of things, a very fair guide.
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Old Today, 01:17 AM   #1932
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
No, of course not, nobody is saying he was, but he certainly is facing a stiff sentence as the news media constantly reminds us.
George Orwell suggested that ignorance is strength, and your argument is living embodiment of that, because you're basing your opinion on ignorance of application of the law in NZ.

Media always talk about maximum sentences because it's sensationalist, but in reality, maximum sentences are almost never given. The maximums are designed for repeat offenders and it's extremely rare to see anyone getting anywhere near the maximum for a first offence. There will be a probation report that will help guide the judge, but I have a handy couple of examples:

My best mate's kid got caught last year with $10,000 worth of marijuana. The maximum sentence is 5 years jail. His actual sentence was 6 months home detention and 12 months' probation and supervision.

My guess is that the 18 yo in question will get 3 years - long enough to disallow home detention, long enough to appease the public, but reasonable enough that it isn't the end of his life.

Another example is a bloke I know very well who was the major figure in a famous finance company fraud, which ripped off over $100M of investors' funds. He got eight years and served less than three.

NZ is not USA when it comes to prison sentences.

If anything our sentencing is piss weak, with the average sentence for killing a child being four years. If the 18 yo gets sentenced to an extraordinary term he will have a clear appeal, so I'd expect the judge to act in a reasonable manner as I suggested above.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
*I* didn't miss it, Associated Press Missed it.
Nope, AP didn't miss it, but Daily Caller conveniently ignored it. As noted above, that's the kind of thing that happens when you use dodgy alt-right news sites.
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Old Today, 02:01 AM   #1933
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
My guess is that the 18 yo in question will get 3 years - long enough to disallow home detention, long enough to appease the public, but reasonable enough that it isn't the end of his life.
And if he does, he'll be out in well under a year based on the 2/3rds off and time serviced.
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Old Today, 05:40 AM   #1934
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I suppose if you need a chart to tell you what you should and should not be reading then have at 'er. I see no need to limit my exposure to online content in such fashion.

Don't forget, this whole watching/downloading/sharing the video thing started out with this.

Quote:
That’s despite a warning from New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern that anyone caught downloading or distributing such material — especially the killer’s 17 minute bodycam footage — faces up to 10 years jail.
And we pair it with this.

Quote:
Anybody found “knowingly” in possession of objectionable material can receive a maximum of 10 years imprisonment.

Every time a person downloads objectionable material onto their screen, there is the potential for a possession offence having been committed.
We can see it's a little more than the media talking about maximum sentences because it's sensationalist. Combine that with the NZ police activly hunting for people who accessed the video and if I were a Kiwi who'd clicked on that video in the early days, I'd be clearing out my browser cache, multiple times.

Yea, 18 year old might not get the maximum ? Guess we'll find out.

Here's the AP article cited in The Daily Caller article that's caused so much fuss. If someone would be so kind as to point out where it mentions the more serious charge about the chat messaging, I'd be eternally grateful.
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