Kent Hovind sues Rationalwiki.

catsmate · 28th February 2014, 04:03 PM

So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing).

This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015.

"Dr" Dino's complaint.

The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..

Loss Leader · 28th February 2014, 04:09 PM

I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.

Katdai · 28th February 2014, 04:25 PM

My wide legal knowledge (obtained mostly through daytime television) reminds me the best defense for libel/defamation is the indeed the truth. I too suspect this will end fairly well, just not for Hovind.
I'm curious. His complaint claims that the Rationalwiki page shows fairly high on his Google search. Does his browser not have a News result section?

smartcooky · 28th February 2014, 07:48 PM

I wonder if Mr Hovind has ever heard of "the Spycatcher effect"

jsfisher · 28th February 2014, 08:28 PM

I look forward to reading the defendant's eventual response (but that assumes the defendant is ever actually served with the complaint).

bruto · 28th February 2014, 09:03 PM

I haven't had this much fun with legal stuff for a while. I wonder if it reads better translated into Corn God code.

I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.

smartcooky · 28th February 2014, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery.

Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"

Gord_in_Toronto · 28th February 2014, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"

Easy peasy!

John D. Doe
1234 Somewhere Dr
Anytown, SS (some state)
90210 ('cause that's the only one I know)
USA (where else would he live?)

jsfisher · 28th February 2014, 09:31 PM

Look's like RationalWiki has deleted the posted copy of the complaint.

nathan · 1st March 2014, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.

I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'

catsmate · 1st March 2014, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

I wonder if Mr Hovind has ever heard of "the Spycatcher effect"

It's The Streisland Effect nowadays.
Books are so, twentieth century.

Originally Posted by bruto

I haven't had this much fun with legal stuff for a while. I wonder if it reads better translated into Corn God code.

I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.

Well the last time someone sued them RW cooperated.

Originally Posted by jsfisher

Look's like RationalWiki has deleted the posted copy of the complaint.

Try here.

Originally Posted by nathan

I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'

That describes Hovind excellently.

turingtest · 1st March 2014, 06:54 AM

Does his complaint begin with the immortal line

Quote:

Hello, my name is Kent Hovind.

?

(For anyone who's never seen it, that's how he begins his "Doctoral Dissertation.")

Dissolution · 1st March 2014, 07:28 AM

So he's complaining about a reference to the actual charges that he's locked up for right now?
What a fantastic example of ludicrous litigation.

jsfisher · 1st March 2014, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.

I believe it has been well-established in the federal court system that the word is "Prose", as in:

Here comes Plaintiff George R. Simpson, Prose, and files this complaint....

Aren't you an attorney? You should already know this stuff. Sheeez.

billdun262 · 1st March 2014, 07:39 AM

Maybe he thinks a jury of his peers should consist entirely of other YECs. He might win under those circumstances.

jsfisher · 1st March 2014, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by billdun262

Maybe he thinks a jury of his peers should consist entirely of other YECs. He might win under those circumstances.

I don't think he demanded a jury trial in his complaint. Odd.

Elizabeth I · 1st March 2014, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by nathan

I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'

Wolrab · 1st March 2014, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Does his complaint begin with the immortal line
?

Quote:

Quote:
Hello, my name is Kent Hovind.

(For anyone who's never seen it, that's how he begins his "Doctoral Dissertation.")

That was the very first thing I thought! Maybe they should use criminal instead of fraudster?

pakeha · 1st March 2014, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate1

So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing).

This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015.

"Dr" Dino's complaint.

The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..

Ah, that DID cheer up a chilly, rainy Saturday afternoon.
Well, that news and a decent Rioja.

tsig · 1st March 2014, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate1

So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing).

This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015.

"Dr" Dino's complaint.

The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..

Looks like RW is shakin' in their boots.

(with laughter)

BardKesnit · 2nd March 2014, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"

Actually, (if I'm reading it right), that isn't as weird as it sounds. When he filed, Hovid didn't know the name of the author of the RW article about him. However, the author is a reasonable defendant. So he included the author under a made-up name, with the intent of serving the author once he gets the name. He other option would have been to just sue RW, ask for the author's name in discovery, then petition the court to join the author to the original suit.

Originally Posted by Dissolution

So he's complaining about a reference to the actual charges that he's locked up for right now?
What a fantastic example of ludicrous litigation.

Again, this may be me misreading things... The suit isn't about RW calling him a crook for the crimes he was convicted of. From the RW article and the complaint, it looks like he put liens on his property to keep the government from seizing it because of his fraud conviction. (If there is a mortgage on the land, the "owner" of the land isn't Hovid; it's the entity that holds the mortgage.)

Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know.

Originally Posted by jsfisher

I don't think he demanded a jury trial in his complaint. Odd.

He didn't. That is weird, now that you mention it.

jsfisher · 2nd March 2014, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by BardKesnit

Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know.

He's locked up for 50+ counts of tax code violations.

His complaint argues that RationalWiki called him a "tax fraudster", but he was not convicted of tax fraud. While technically true I suppose, I hope the courts have the good sense to realize that words aren't narrowly defined as having just one meaning, and that meaning isn't solely what's printed in Black's Law Dictionary.

Hovind's issue with the liens is similarly twisted around the word, fraudulent, having a singular, legalistic meaning.

IANAL, NDIPOOTI

catsmate · 2nd March 2014, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by BardKesnit

Again, this may be me misreading things... The suit isn't about RW calling him a crook for the crimes he was convicted of. From the RW article and the complaint, it looks like he put liens on his property to keep the government from seizing it because of his fraud conviction. (If there is a mortgage on the land, the "owner" of the land isn't Hovid; it's the entity that holds the mortgage.)

Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know.

No, his fraudulent liens (so described by the US government lawyers) are a new-ish matter that should extend his jail time somewhat.

showmevegas · 2nd March 2014, 10:59 AM

It will all wash away

catsmate · 2nd March 2014, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by showmevegas

It will all wash away

Is god planning a second Flood?

wollery · 2nd March 2014, 03:19 PM

The first thing that came to my mind was Arkell v Pressdram.

trustbutverify · 2nd March 2014, 03:46 PM

Ahead of his time.

Quote:

Hovind has also stated an opposition to democracy, saying: "If Evolution is true, there is no Creator, so laws come from man's opinion. That is called a democracy, which is a terrible form of government. Democracies always degenerate into dictatorships. In America, it is sad to say, has become a democracy."[122] Hovind also stated: "democracy is evil and contrary to God's law"[103] and "democracy is a horrible form of government."

Dissolution · 3rd March 2014, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Ahead of his time.

Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like?
The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.

Sideroxylon · 3rd March 2014, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dissolution

Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like?
The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.

And a dollar to be made with it on the US evangelical talk circuit.

trustbutverify · 3rd March 2014, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dissolution

Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like?
The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.

Evangelical truthers who hate democracy, and think "certain people" were warned about 9/11. PressTV, I think I just found your next correspondent.

Cleon · 3rd March 2014, 05:31 AM

I hope this doesn't cost RW too much time/money before getting laughed out of court.

catsmate · 4th March 2014, 01:56 PM

RW have wiki-ed the lawsuit. It's amusing how pathetic and incompetent "Dr." Dino is.

JoeTheJuggler · 4th March 2014, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate1

RW have wiki-ed the lawsuit. It's amusing how pathetic and incompetent "Dr." Dino is.

FWIW, the annotation challenging Hovind's residency claim for diversity purposes isn't valid. You don't lose your domicile by involuntary residency in another state (as with penitentiary prisoners). I ran across several cases on this point in a recent LRW project.

But the annotation is correct to challenge the diversity claim given that several defendants are unidentified. The burden is on the party seeking diversity.

Spindrift · 4th March 2014, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

FWIW, the annotation challenging Hovind's residency claim for diversity purposes isn't valid. You don't lose your domicile by involuntary residency in another state (as with penitentiary prisoners). I ran across several cases on this point in a recent LRW project.

But the annotation is correct to challenge the diversity claim given that several defendants are unidentified. The burden is on the party seeking diversity.

IANAL. What is 'seeking diversity'?

jsfisher · 4th March 2014, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Spindrift

IANAL. What is 'seeking diversity'?

Across state lines in this case. It is one of the things you can claim to move the case to the federal court system.

jsfisher · 4th March 2014, 04:14 PM

I was going to ask why Hovind would deny in his complaint that he filed the liens when the Escambia clerk records referenced by RationalWiki has the lien documents clearly bearing Hovind's signature.

Then it occurred to me: He must be using his private dictionary again. I wonder what exactly "to file" means in his world.

By the way, Hovind's SSN is displayed on at least on of the older clerk records. If his identity was actually worth stealing, the number might be worth something.

Dissolution · 4th March 2014, 04:31 PM

Hovind seems to be a horrific collision of the YEC and the FMOTL movements. A Freeman on the Young Earth, I guess.
A massive bag of both the nut and the douche varieties.

trustbutverify · 4th March 2014, 04:48 PM

Hovind and Steven Seagel are the Larry Bird and Magic Johnson of douchebags.

jsfisher · 4th March 2014, 05:59 PM

And then there is this. Won't anything go Kent's way?

BardKesnit · 4th March 2014, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by jsfisher

And then there is this. Won't anything go Kent's way?

The holding isn't fatal to Dr. Dino's suit.

First, if he could show negligence on RW's part, he can win.

Second, Florida is in the 11th Circuit. The holding you linked to is from the 9th. The federal district court where he filed suit is not bound by the holding of a federal appeals court of a different circuit. (Had that holding been an 11th Cir., the district court would be bound.) Even if Hovind's case gets heard on appeal, the 9th Cir. holding isn't binding. Federal circuit courts may give deference to the holdings of another court, but they are not bound by them.

28th February 2014, 04:03 PM	#1
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,850	Kent Hovind sues Rationalwiki. So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing). This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015. "Dr" Dino's complaint. The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th February 2014, 04:09 PM	#2
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 27,909	I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.
	__________________ I have the honor to be Your Obdt. S^t L. Leader

28th February 2014, 04:25 PM	#3
Katdai Student Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 42	My wide legal knowledge (obtained mostly through daytime television) reminds me the best defense for libel/defamation is the indeed the truth. I too suspect this will end fairly well, just not for Hovind. I'm curious. His complaint claims that the Rationalwiki page shows fairly high on his Google search. Does his browser not have a News result section?
Katdai Student Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 42

28th February 2014, 07:48 PM	#4
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,038	I wonder if Mr Hovind has ever heard of "the Spycatcher effect"
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!

28th February 2014, 08:28 PM	#5
jsfisher ETcorngods survivor Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,369	I look forward to reading the defendant's eventual response (but that assumes the defendant is ever actually served with the complaint).
	__________________ *A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.* "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost

28th February 2014, 09:03 PM	#6
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 32,257	I haven't had this much fun with legal stuff for a while. I wonder if it reads better translated into Corn God code. I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) "There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)

28th February 2014, 09:23 PM	#7
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,038	Originally Posted by bruto I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!

28th February 2014, 09:30 PM	#8
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,367	Originally Posted by smartcooky Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!" Easy peasy! John D. Doe 1234 Somewhere Dr Anytown, SS (some state) 90210 ('cause that's the only one I know) USA (where else would he live?)
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

28th February 2014, 09:31 PM	#9
jsfisher ETcorngods survivor Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,369	Look's like RationalWiki has deleted the posted copy of the complaint.
	__________________ *A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.* "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost

1st March 2014, 04:07 AM	#10
nathan Zygoticly Phased Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,477	Originally Posted by Loss Leader I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards. I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'
nathan Zygoticly Phased Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,477	__________________ Crank works have one advantage: they don't really lose anything in translation. Skeptic That's the beauty of Paranormal claims - there are no failures, only newly discovered restrictions on the ability. Ashles

1st March 2014, 05:59 AM	#11
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,850	Originally Posted by smartcooky I wonder if Mr Hovind has ever heard of "the Spycatcher effect" It's The Streisland Effect nowadays. Books are so, twentieth century. Originally Posted by bruto I haven't had this much fun with legal stuff for a while. I wonder if it reads better translated into Corn God code. I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well. Well the last time someone sued them RW cooperated. Originally Posted by jsfisher Look's like RationalWiki has deleted the posted copy of the complaint. Try here. Originally Posted by nathan I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious' That describes Hovind excellently.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

1st March 2014, 06:54 AM	#12
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded and embattled, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 5,139	Does his complaint begin with the immortal line Quote: Hello, my name is Kent Hovind. ? (For anyone who's never seen it, that's how he begins his "Doctoral Dissertation.")
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

1st March 2014, 07:28 AM	#13
Dissolution Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,306	So he's complaining about a reference to the actual charges that he's locked up for right now? What a fantastic example of ludicrous litigation.

1st March 2014, 07:35 AM	#14
jsfisher ETcorngods survivor Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,369	Originally Posted by Loss Leader I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards. I believe it has been well-established in the federal court system that the word is "Prose", as in: Here comes Plaintiff George R. Simpson, Prose, and files this complaint.... Aren't you an attorney? You should already know this stuff. Sheeez.
	__________________ *A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.* "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost

1st March 2014, 07:39 AM	#15
billdun262 Student Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 32	Maybe he thinks a jury of his peers should consist entirely of other YECs. He might win under those circumstances.
billdun262 Student Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 32

1st March 2014, 08:02 AM	#16
jsfisher ETcorngods survivor Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,369	Originally Posted by billdun262 Maybe he thinks a jury of his peers should consist entirely of other YECs. He might win under those circumstances. I don't think he demanded a jury trial in his complaint. Odd.
	__________________ *A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.* "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost

1st March 2014, 08:46 AM	#17
Elizabeth I Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,930	Originally Posted by nathan I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'

1st March 2014, 09:07 AM	#18
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,811	Originally Posted by turingtest Does his complaint begin with the immortal line ? Quote: Quote: Hello, my name is Kent Hovind. (For anyone who's never seen it, that's how he begins his "Doctoral Dissertation.") That was the very first thing I thought! Maybe they should use criminal instead of fraudster?
Wolrab Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,811	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

1st March 2014, 12:03 PM	#19
pakeha Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 12,331	Originally Posted by catsmate1 So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing). This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015. "Dr" Dino's complaint. The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino.. Ah, that DID cheer up a chilly, rainy Saturday afternoon. Well, that news and a decent Rioja.

1st March 2014, 12:08 PM	#20
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 39,049	Originally Posted by catsmate1 So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing). This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015. "Dr" Dino's complaint. The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino.. Looks like RW is shakin' in their boots. (with laughter)

2nd March 2014, 09:35 AM	#21
BardKesnit Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 332	Originally Posted by bruto I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well. Originally Posted by smartcooky Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!" Actually, (if I'm reading it right), that isn't as weird as it sounds. When he filed, Hovid didn't know the name of the author of the RW article about him. However, the author is a reasonable defendant. So he included the author under a made-up name, with the intent of serving the author once he gets the name. He other option would have been to just sue RW, ask for the author's name in discovery, then petition the court to join the author to the original suit. Originally Posted by Dissolution So he's complaining about a reference to the actual charges that he's locked up for right now? What a fantastic example of ludicrous litigation. Again, this may be me misreading things... The suit isn't about RW calling him a crook for the crimes he was convicted of. From the RW article and the complaint, it looks like he put liens on his property to keep the government from seizing it because of his fraud conviction. (If there is a mortgage on the land, the "owner" of the land isn't Hovid; it's the entity that holds the mortgage.) Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know. Originally Posted by jsfisher I don't think he demanded a jury trial in his complaint. Odd. He didn't. That is weird, now that you mention it.

2nd March 2014, 10:26 AM	#22
jsfisher ETcorngods survivor Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,369	Originally Posted by BardKesnit Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know. He's locked up for 50+ counts of tax code violations. His complaint argues that RationalWiki called him a "tax fraudster", but he was not convicted of tax fraud. While technically true I suppose, I hope the courts have the good sense to realize that words aren't narrowly defined as having just one meaning, and that meaning isn't solely what's printed in Black's Law Dictionary. Hovind's issue with the liens is similarly twisted around the word, fraudulent, having a singular, legalistic meaning. IANAL, NDIPOOTI
	__________________ *A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.* "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost

2nd March 2014, 10:55 AM	#23
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,850	Originally Posted by BardKesnit Again, this may be me misreading things... The suit isn't about RW calling him a crook for the crimes he was convicted of. From the RW article and the complaint, it looks like he put liens on his property to keep the government from seizing it because of his fraud conviction. (If there is a mortgage on the land, the "owner" of the land isn't Hovid; it's the entity that holds the mortgage.) Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know. No, his fraudulent liens (so described by the US government lawyers) are a new-ish matter that should extend his jail time somewhat.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

2nd March 2014, 10:59 AM	#24
showmevegas Scholar Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 74	It will all wash away
showmevegas Scholar Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 74

2nd March 2014, 02:34 PM	#25
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,850	Originally Posted by showmevegas It will all wash away Is god planning a second Flood?
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

2nd March 2014, 03:19 PM	#26
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 11,152	The first thing that came to my mind was Arkell v Pressdram.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

2nd March 2014, 03:46 PM	#27
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9,650	Ahead of his time. Quote: Hovind has also stated an opposition to democracy, saying: "If Evolution is true, there is no Creator, so laws come from man's opinion. That is called a democracy, which is a terrible form of government. Democracies always degenerate into dictatorships. In America, it is sad to say, has become a democracy."[122] Hovind also stated: "democracy is evil and contrary to God's law"[103] and "democracy is a horrible form of government."

3rd March 2014, 04:36 AM	#28
Dissolution Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,306	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Ahead of his time. Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like? The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.

3rd March 2014, 05:12 AM	#29
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 26,016	Originally Posted by Dissolution Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like? The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it. And a dollar to be made with it on the US evangelical talk circuit.

3rd March 2014, 05:29 AM	#30
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9,650	Originally Posted by Dissolution Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like? The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it. Evangelical truthers who hate democracy, and think "certain people" were warned about 9/11. PressTV, I think I just found your next correspondent.

3rd March 2014, 05:31 AM	#31
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,585	I hope this doesn't cost RW too much time/money before getting laughed out of court.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

4th March 2014, 01:56 PM	#32
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 26,850	RW have wiki-ed the lawsuit. It's amusing how pathetic and incompetent "Dr." Dino is.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

4th March 2014, 02:31 PM	#33
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 27,766	Originally Posted by catsmate1 RW have wiki-ed the lawsuit. It's amusing how pathetic and incompetent "Dr." Dino is. FWIW, the annotation challenging Hovind's residency claim for diversity purposes isn't valid. You don't lose your domicile by involuntary residency in another state (as with penitentiary prisoners). I ran across several cases on this point in a recent LRW project. But the annotation is correct to challenge the diversity claim given that several defendants are unidentified. The burden is on the party seeking diversity.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

4th March 2014, 03:00 PM	#34
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler FWIW, the annotation challenging Hovind's residency claim for diversity purposes isn't valid. You don't lose your domicile by involuntary residency in another state (as with penitentiary prisoners). I ran across several cases on this point in a recent LRW project. But the annotation is correct to challenge the diversity claim given that several defendants are unidentified. The burden is on the party seeking diversity. IANAL. What is 'seeking diversity'?
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

4th March 2014, 03:35 PM	#35
jsfisher ETcorngods survivor Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 23,369	Originally Posted by Spindrift IANAL. What is 'seeking diversity'? Across state lines in this case. It is one of the things you can claim to move the case to the federal court system.
	__________________ *A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.* "He's the greatest mod that never was!" -- Monketey Ghost