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Tags defamation cases , kent hovind , lawsuits , Rationalwiki

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Old 28th February 2014, 04:03 PM   #1
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Talking Kent Hovind sues Rationalwiki.

So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing).

This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015.

"Dr" Dino's complaint.

The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..
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Old 28th February 2014, 04:09 PM   #2
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I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.
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Old 28th February 2014, 04:25 PM   #3
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My wide legal knowledge (obtained mostly through daytime television) reminds me the best defense for libel/defamation is the indeed the truth. I too suspect this will end fairly well, just not for Hovind.
I'm curious. His complaint claims that the Rationalwiki page shows fairly high on his Google search. Does his browser not have a News result section?
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Old 28th February 2014, 07:48 PM   #4
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I wonder if Mr Hovind has ever heard of "the Spycatcher effect"
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Old 28th February 2014, 08:28 PM   #5
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I look forward to reading the defendant's eventual response (but that assumes the defendant is ever actually served with the complaint).
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Old 28th February 2014, 09:03 PM   #6
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I haven't had this much fun with legal stuff for a while. I wonder if it reads better translated into Corn God code.

I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.
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Old 28th February 2014, 09:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery.
Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"
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Old 28th February 2014, 09:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"
Easy peasy!

John D. Doe
1234 Somewhere Dr
Anytown, SS (some state)
90210 ('cause that's the only one I know)
USA (where else would he live?)
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Old 28th February 2014, 09:31 PM   #9
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Look's like RationalWiki has deleted the posted copy of the complaint.
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Old 1st March 2014, 04:07 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.
I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'
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Old 1st March 2014, 05:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I wonder if Mr Hovind has ever heard of "the Spycatcher effect"
It's The Streisland Effect nowadays.
Books are so, twentieth century.

Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I haven't had this much fun with legal stuff for a while. I wonder if it reads better translated into Corn God code.

I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.
Well the last time someone sued them RW cooperated.

Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
Look's like RationalWiki has deleted the posted copy of the complaint.
Try here.
Originally Posted by nathan View Post
I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'
That describes Hovind excellently.
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Old 1st March 2014, 06:54 AM   #12
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Does his complaint begin with the immortal line
Quote:
Hello, my name is Kent Hovind.
?

(For anyone who's never seen it, that's how he begins his "Doctoral Dissertation.")
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Old 1st March 2014, 07:28 AM   #13
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So he's complaining about a reference to the actual charges that he's locked up for right now?
What a fantastic example of ludicrous litigation.
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Old 1st March 2014, 07:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I love pro se complaints. It's like watching Twin Peaks backwards.
I believe it has been well-established in the federal court system that the word is "Prose", as in:
Here comes Plaintiff George R. Simpson, Prose, and files this complaint....
Aren't you an attorney? You should already know this stuff. Sheeez.
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Old 1st March 2014, 07:39 AM   #15
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Maybe he thinks a jury of his peers should consist entirely of other YECs. He might win under those circumstances.
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Old 1st March 2014, 08:02 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by billdun262 View Post
Maybe he thinks a jury of his peers should consist entirely of other YECs. He might win under those circumstances.

I don't think he demanded a jury trial in his complaint. Odd.
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Old 1st March 2014, 08:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by nathan View Post
I understand that 'pro se' is legalese for 'unmedicated and litigious'
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Old 1st March 2014, 09:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Does his complaint begin with the immortal line
?
Quote:
Quote:
Hello, my name is Kent Hovind.
(For anyone who's never seen it, that's how he begins his "Doctoral Dissertation.")
That was the very first thing I thought! Maybe they should use criminal instead of fraudster?
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Old 1st March 2014, 12:03 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing).

This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015.

"Dr" Dino's complaint.

The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..
Ah, that DID cheer up a chilly, rainy Saturday afternoon.
Well, that news and a decent Rioja.
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Old 1st March 2014, 12:08 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
So everyone's favourite tax evading felon, young Earth creationist, doctoral faker and failed dinosaur amusement park owner had decided to object to being described as a "convicted tax fraudster" (despite being convicted of 58 charges relating to tax evasion and currently being in prison) and of engaging in filing of fraudulent liens against property seized by the US government to pay his outstanding debts (despite doing just this on conjunction with Alex Matthews [another convicted fraudster] and facing additional charges for so doing).

This should end well. Hopefully in additional to the fresh contempt of court charges Hovind if facing this nonsense should help keep him in jail beyond 2015.

"Dr" Dino's complaint.

The offending RW article on "Dr" Dino..
Looks like RW is shakin' in their boots.

(with laughter)
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Old 2nd March 2014, 09:35 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I love that the plaintiff intends to obtain John Doe's address during discovery. That's bound to go well.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah. I looked at that, and thought to myself "Good luck with that!"
Actually, (if I'm reading it right), that isn't as weird as it sounds. When he filed, Hovid didn't know the name of the author of the RW article about him. However, the author is a reasonable defendant. So he included the author under a made-up name, with the intent of serving the author once he gets the name. He other option would have been to just sue RW, ask for the author's name in discovery, then petition the court to join the author to the original suit.

Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
So he's complaining about a reference to the actual charges that he's locked up for right now?
What a fantastic example of ludicrous litigation.
Again, this may be me misreading things... The suit isn't about RW calling him a crook for the crimes he was convicted of. From the RW article and the complaint, it looks like he put liens on his property to keep the government from seizing it because of his fraud conviction. (If there is a mortgage on the land, the "owner" of the land isn't Hovid; it's the entity that holds the mortgage.)

Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know.

Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
I don't think he demanded a jury trial in his complaint. Odd.
He didn't. That is weird, now that you mention it.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 10:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BardKesnit View Post
Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know.
He's locked up for 50+ counts of tax code violations.

His complaint argues that RationalWiki called him a "tax fraudster", but he was not convicted of tax fraud. While technically true I suppose, I hope the courts have the good sense to realize that words aren't narrowly defined as having just one meaning, and that meaning isn't solely what's printed in Black's Law Dictionary.

Hovind's issue with the liens is similarly twisted around the word, fraudulent, having a singular, legalistic meaning.

IANAL, NDIPOOTI
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Old 2nd March 2014, 10:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BardKesnit View Post
Again, this may be me misreading things... The suit isn't about RW calling him a crook for the crimes he was convicted of. From the RW article and the complaint, it looks like he put liens on his property to keep the government from seizing it because of his fraud conviction. (If there is a mortgage on the land, the "owner" of the land isn't Hovid; it's the entity that holds the mortgage.)

Maybe putting those liens was the fraud that landed him in prison; I don't know.
No, his fraudulent liens (so described by the US government lawyers) are a new-ish matter that should extend his jail time somewhat.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 10:59 AM   #24
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It will all wash away
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Old 2nd March 2014, 02:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by showmevegas View Post
It will all wash away
Is god planning a second Flood?
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Old 2nd March 2014, 03:19 PM   #26
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The first thing that came to my mind was Arkell v Pressdram.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 03:46 PM   #27
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Ahead of his time.

Quote:
Hovind has also stated an opposition to democracy, saying: "If Evolution is true, there is no Creator, so laws come from man's opinion. That is called a democracy, which is a terrible form of government. Democracies always degenerate into dictatorships. In America, it is sad to say, has become a democracy."[122] Hovind also stated: "democracy is evil and contrary to God's law"[103] and "democracy is a horrible form of government."
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Old 3rd March 2014, 04:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like?
The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 05:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like?
The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.
And a dollar to be made with it on the US evangelical talk circuit.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 05:29 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
Going by that link, did Hovind ever hear a conspiracy that he didn't like?
The guy will believe anything, as long as there's no evidence to support it.
Evangelical truthers who hate democracy, and think "certain people" were warned about 9/11. PressTV, I think I just found your next correspondent.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 05:31 AM   #31
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I hope this doesn't cost RW too much time/money before getting laughed out of court.
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Old 4th March 2014, 01:56 PM   #32
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RW have wiki-ed the lawsuit. It's amusing how pathetic and incompetent "Dr." Dino is.
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Old 4th March 2014, 02:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
RW have wiki-ed the lawsuit. It's amusing how pathetic and incompetent "Dr." Dino is.
FWIW, the annotation challenging Hovind's residency claim for diversity purposes isn't valid. You don't lose your domicile by involuntary residency in another state (as with penitentiary prisoners). I ran across several cases on this point in a recent LRW project.

But the annotation is correct to challenge the diversity claim given that several defendants are unidentified. The burden is on the party seeking diversity.
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Old 4th March 2014, 03:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
FWIW, the annotation challenging Hovind's residency claim for diversity purposes isn't valid. You don't lose your domicile by involuntary residency in another state (as with penitentiary prisoners). I ran across several cases on this point in a recent LRW project.

But the annotation is correct to challenge the diversity claim given that several defendants are unidentified. The burden is on the party seeking diversity.
IANAL. What is 'seeking diversity'?
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Old 4th March 2014, 03:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
IANAL. What is 'seeking diversity'?
Across state lines in this case. It is one of the things you can claim to move the case to the federal court system.
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Old 4th March 2014, 04:14 PM   #36
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I was going to ask why Hovind would deny in his complaint that he filed the liens when the Escambia clerk records referenced by RationalWiki has the lien documents clearly bearing Hovind's signature.

Then it occurred to me: He must be using his private dictionary again. I wonder what exactly "to file" means in his world.

By the way, Hovind's SSN is displayed on at least on of the older clerk records. If his identity was actually worth stealing, the number might be worth something.
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Old 4th March 2014, 04:31 PM   #37
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Hovind seems to be a horrific collision of the YEC and the FMOTL movements. A Freeman on the Young Earth, I guess.
A massive bag of both the nut and the douche varieties.
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Old 4th March 2014, 04:48 PM   #38
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Hovind and Steven Seagel are the Larry Bird and Magic Johnson of douchebags.
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Old 4th March 2014, 05:59 PM   #39
jsfisher
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And then there is this. Won't anything go Kent's way?
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Old 4th March 2014, 06:40 PM   #40
BardKesnit
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
And then there is this. Won't anything go Kent's way?
The holding isn't fatal to Dr. Dino's suit.

First, if he could show negligence on RW's part, he can win.

Second, Florida is in the 11th Circuit. The holding you linked to is from the 9th. The federal district court where he filed suit is not bound by the holding of a federal appeals court of a different circuit. (Had that holding been an 11th Cir., the district court would be bound.) Even if Hovind's case gets heard on appeal, the 9th Cir. holding isn't binding. Federal circuit courts may give deference to the holdings of another court, but they are not bound by them.
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