[Continuation] Today's Mass Shooting (2) - Page 51

dann · 7th July 2022, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by dann

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

An unknown number of people have been killed and wounded by a man with a rifle at Field's shopping center in Copenhagen

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919

Yes, three killed, four more in a critical condition. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919
But no longer reason to fear for their lives: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/al...-uden-livsfare
The shooter is well-known by the psychiatric system: https://politiken.dk/indland/art8866...-i-psykiatrien

Quote:

The father, Robert Crimo Jr. ... said that the night before Monday's shooting, he and son Robert Crimo III discussed the 22-year-old Danish man man who shot and killed three people at a mall outside of Copenhagen on Sunday.
"He goes, 'Yeah, that guy is an idiot.' That's what he said!" the dad recalled his on saying of the Danish shooter.
The father said his son added. "People like that ... [commit mass shootings] to amp up the people that want to ban all guns."
Crimo dad washes hands of guilt but talked with son about a mass shooting night before Highland Park Massacre (New York Post, July 6, 2022)

I don't know if this means anything other than that he didn't want his father to know what he had planned to do.

Stacyhs · 7th July 2022, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Graham2001

Conspiracy types are taking a different tack of course. One comment to the blog post linked below, whose creator tries to argue the shooter was apolitical, states that the rose tatoos are "...a common antifa tattoo ..."

Another claims that "...the FBI activated another drone...", or to put it simply the shooter is yet another product of 'MK-Ultra/Treadstone' mass shooter factory.

The rest of the commentary is not much better.

https://up-ship.com/blog/?p=49886

Conspiracy theorists fascinate me. They definitely have a different psychology than those who don't tend that way. I'm dealing with a few in an old missing child case who are all into the theory it's a massive conspiracy among 8-9 people to cover up an accidental death rather than what is obvious to me: the child was abducted. No matter how many times I shoot down their 'evidence' (which is mostly just their interpretations based on a pre-existing belief), they just handwave it away and they're off to another "fact" based on their conspiracy belief. EVERYTHING has a nefarious reason /motive for them.

I was reading a couple psychological analyses of the conspiracist personality and narcissism heads the list of traits. I'm shocked.

Stacyhs · 7th July 2022, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by dann

I don't know if this means anything other than that he didn't want his father to know what he had planned to do.

I don't believe the father talked to his son about the Copenhagen shooting at all. I think he's trying to justify his signing and sponsoring his son's firearm owners identification (FOID) card application after the son had threatened to kill himself and all his family members just four months before. He's already claiming he's not culpable for what his son did. The shooter's parents had been involved in several domestic problems resulting in police coming to their home. The police confiscated the shooter's 16 knives, a sword and a machete but they were later returned to the father.

shemp · 7th July 2022, 05:40 PM

Michael Moore on the Highland Park shooting

He Knew No One Would Expect a Woman Was the Mass Killer and He Was Right

Quote:

I’ll say this about mass murderer Bobby Crimo. He knows that we are safe from the 51% of the population who don’t do mass murder. 99.9% of mass murderers are men. So he knew that the best way to escape his slaughter on Monday in Highland Park, Illinois, was to blend in with the terrorized crowd running for their lives — and to do so dressed as a “woman.” Because no one would dare suspect he was the shooter because, well, he was a “woman.” He had dressed as a woman, even as he was up on the roof, wearing a skirt and makeup as he fired off his 83+ bullets.

•

“Bullets” is a polite word in this case. The ammo he used in his “high powered assault rifle — a weapon of war” — is able to blow one’s head off. On Monday there was at least one victim with half his head gone. A woman was missing much of her upper torso. Another woman had most of one leg blown off — by just one “bullet.” I want every network and newspaper to do their duty to the truth and ******* show America what this really looks like. Stop blurring out the truth! When you do that you are liars. You pretend that by not showing the carnage you are being “respectful” to the families of the dead. WRONG. You are disrespecting the dead by not showing the sacrifice THEY made so WE can have a Second Amendment. Stop your b.s. and do your job. Show the world the real America in all its despicable violence. Legally-purchased guns with legally sold ammunition that has only one singular purpose: the utter annihilation of a human body with immediate decapitation and/or the vivisection that spills one’s innards out onto the sidewalk like raw mincemeat, organ after organ carved up and splayed for the little children at the parade to see. If millions saw the true horror of this, I am convinced they would March on Washington, encircle the Capitol and not leave until all assault weapons were banned or confiscated.

•

Here’s what Joe Biden was able to bring himself to say: “I am shocked by this senseless act of gun violence.” Really? You’re “shocked?” What planet have you been on? There is NOTHING shocking about this tragedy. IT HAPPENS EVERY ******* WEEK! 310 mass shootings since January. There are now two mass shootings PER DAY in the USA! And you call this “senseless gun violence?” Does that mean there is sensible gun violence? What does sensible violence look like?

Stop calling it senseless! This all makes perfect sense! We Americans are the main perpetrators of violence, whether it’s against each other, against women specifically, whether it’s invading other countries or letting our people die from lack of health coverage so we can build more sophisticated bomb-dropping drones while we round up babies and kids on the border and throw them into cages. We’re one of the last countries with the death penalty, we lead the way in destroying planet Earth, we pump over 60 bullets into an unarmed Black man in Akron simply because he is Black, he’s not human, and wouldn’t it be cool to see what a Black body looks like with nothing left of his body but bullet holes? This makes cops like this so excited they jizz their pants.

Dr.Sid · 7th July 2022, 05:49 PM

I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild ..

Graham2001 · 7th July 2022, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Conspiracy theorists fascinate me. They definitely have a different psychology than those who don't tend that way. I'm dealing with a few in an old missing child case who are all into the theory it's a massive conspiracy among 8-9 people to cover up an accidental death rather than what is obvious to me: the child was abducted. No matter how many times I shoot down their 'evidence' (which is mostly just their interpretations based on a pre-existing belief), they just handwave it away and they're off to another "fact" based on their conspiracy belief. EVERYTHING has a nefarious reason /motive for them.

I was reading a couple psychological analyses of the conspiracist personality and narcissism heads the list of traits. I'm shocked.

You see that happening in the comments section to the blog entry I posted, the '...rose tatoos are "...a common antifa tattoo ..."...' guy is responded to by the person who wrote the blog entry and while they (The author of the linked blog post.) are willing to accept "...Antifa-thinking..." behind the shooting, they'd "...need more than a generic tattoo of a flower to draw that link."

sarge · 7th July 2022, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild ..

5.56 is ‘high powered’ when measured by the effect of impact on a human at any useful range. That there are more powerful rounds available isn’t a particularly important fact when discussing what firearms should be available to the average citizen.

sackett · 7th July 2022, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by sarge

5.56 is ‘high powered’ when measured by the effect of impact on a human at any useful range. That there are more powerful rounds available isn’t a particularly important fact when discussing what firearms should be available to the average citizen.

Come to that, high velocity .22s have never had any function off the target range except to explode flesh, whether varmints or men. That's why I propose that BATF rewrite their regs to include 5.56 x 45 in the category of destructive devices.

ZiprHead · 8th July 2022, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiPS3nao9Dc

ZiprHead · 8th July 2022, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Yeah, Crimo appears to be a non political homicidal Maniac.

A Highland Park resident has shared her experiences with the shooter.

She claims he was a "known agitator" who "joined a group of pro-Trump and militia supporters in the summer of 2020 to intimidate residents..."

erlando · 8th July 2022, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild ..

Tell that to the parents of the kids in Uvalde that had their heads blown off by a 5.56.

I don't give a flying **** about the "definition" or whatever of "high-powered rifle" when the reality is that 5.56mm rifles literally are ripping the victims' bodies apart. It occurred in Uvalde. It occurred again in Highland Park.

Being able to rip bodies apart should be enough to call a weapon "high powered".

Doubt · 8th July 2022, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild ..

Um, no.

In general, ammo used in military assault rifles are referred to as intermediate cartridges. They are not considered "high powered" but are not at all mild. The intention is that they can deliver a lot of energy on target while still being controllable when fired in fully automatic mode. Thanks to the buffer spring, AR-15 and derived weapons are quite controllable under just about any circumstances.

In the case of 5.56 mm rounds, the original AR-15 was designed to use a lower powered nitrocellulose powder that the military really did not want. So when the M-16 was adopted they went with a higher powered smokeless powder and that was also what civilians were getting. Then around the time the M-16A2 came out the new green tip ammo with an even stronger charge also came out. The green tip ammo became popular among civilian owners of AR-15 like weapons as well.

So you are technically correct to say it is not high powered. But not at all correct to call it "mild". This is what is most properly called BS.

Dr.Sid · 8th July 2022, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Doubt

So you are technically correct to say it is not high powered. But not at all correct to call it "mild". This is what is most properly called BS.

I explicitly said it's mild "as rifles go" so you can keep your BS.

Doubt · 8th July 2022, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I explicitly said it's mild "as rifles go" so you can keep your BS.

Still valid. At best you have a distinction without a difference. The numbers here are not true in all cases but they still make the point. Yes, the 5.56 mm round is only about half the power of the 7.62 mm NATO standard round. But it is still three times the amount from .45 ACP, which is known for ripping big exit holes in people with less power.

The point stands that they are not at all mild in any way, shape, or form.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Muzzle_energy

Dr.Sid · 8th July 2022, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Doubt

Still valid. At best you have a distinction without a difference. The numbers here are not true in all cases but they still make the point. Yes, the 5.56 mm round is only about half the power of the 7.62 mm NATO standard round. But it is still three times the amount from .45 ACP, which is known for ripping big exit holes in people with less power.

The point stands that they are not at all mild in any way, shape, or form.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Muzzle_energy

Ok, once again, but it's the last time, I promise: "as rifles go". RIFLES.

Stacyhs · 8th July 2022, 05:14 PM

The eight year old the jerk off shot is now paralyzed from the waist down. His mother underwent several surgeries for her own injuries.

Last year in Japan, they had ONE...ONE... homicide by firearm. Shinzo Abe's assassin had to make his own gun because they are so hard to get in Japan. But, yeah..I don't wanna hear how guns aren't the problem.

junkshop · 8th July 2022, 05:17 PM

Perhaps 'mild' was a poor word choice. Especially as, you know, people died.

There is nothing (in my opinion) 'mild' about any firearm, regardless of it's relative destructive power compared to any other.

Given the context, I'm minded to agree with the good Captain's excised comment.

Shalamar · 8th July 2022, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

The eight year old the jerk off shot is now paralyzed from the waist down. His mother underwent several surgeries for her own injuries.

Last year in Japan, they had ONE...ONE... homicide by firearm. Shinzo Abe's assassin had to make his own gun because they are so hard to get in Japan. But, yeah..I don't wanna hear how guns aren't the problem.

The attack in Japan is just normal. After all, we've been told that there is nothing, nothing we here in the USA can do to curb gun violence.

Thermal · 8th July 2022, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by junkshop

Perhaps 'mild' was a poor word choice. Especially as, you know, people died.

There is nothing (in my opinion) 'mild' about any firearm, regardless of it's relative destructive power compared to any other.

Given the context, I'm minded to agree with the good Captain's excised comment.

But we can take Dr Sid's dispassionate observation at face value: the 5.56 isn't even on the high end of readily avsilable rifle power, and look what it does. Its not even the most vicious thing on the shelf at the corner store.

These things are not needed by civilians.

sackett · 8th July 2022, 10:18 PM

Since Dr. Sid is clearly the first person in history to make an unfortunate utterance (none of We the Advanced Beings has ever done such a thing), it is altogether fitting and proper to chastise him for it.

When we have done enough chastising, I am confident that we will stop.

lionking · 8th July 2022, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

Since Dr. Sid is clearly the first person in history to make an unfortunate utterance (none of We the Advanced Beings has ever done such a thing), it is altogether fitting and proper to chastise him for it.

When we have done enough chastising, I am confident that we will stop.

Well when someone comments on a shooting where people have been torn apart, saying, in effect “ that’s not so bad, other guns would have made it worse” it is indeed unfortunate and worthy of chastisement.

a_unique_person · 9th July 2022, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by sackett

Since Dr. Sid is clearly the first person in history to make an unfortunate utterance (none of We the Advanced Beings has ever done such a thing), it is altogether fitting and proper to chastise him for it.

When we have done enough chastising, I am confident that we will stop.

He does defend himself.

The 5.56 round was designed to be as at least as lethal as larger rounds on the unarmoured or lightly armoured human body.

MRC_Hans · 9th July 2022, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

He does defend himself.

The 5.56 round was designed to be as at least as lethal as larger rounds on the unarmoured or lightly armoured human body.

Because that is, after all, the purpose of such weapons: To maim and kill.

Hans

Bogative · 9th July 2022, 11:11 AM

Back to our regularly scheduled not-a-mass-shooting mass shooting, this time from Gary, Indiana.

3 killed, 7 wounded when people in two separate cars pulled a drive-by at a block party. One black woman and two black men, one of whom was the mayor's cousin, were the victims this time.

Before some not so smart cookies dismiss this as gang bangers killing one another:

Quote:

Witnesses tell FOX 32 Chicago that two vehicles drove by, both with multiple people inside, firing several gunshots at the crowd of bystanders.

The victims are all believed to be innocent bystanders, per authorities.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/ma...ly-block-party

ponderingturtle · 11th July 2022, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by erlando

Tell that to the parents of the kids in Uvalde that had their heads blown off by a 5.56.

That is really the parents fault for not sending them to school with proper helmets.

Armitage72 · 11th July 2022, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by sackett

Come to that, high velocity .22s have never had any function off the target range except to explode flesh, whether varmints or men. That's why I propose that BATF rewrite their regs to include 5.56 x 45 in the category of destructive devices.

I remember when I was a kid my father once went squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle loaded with Stinger ammunition (high velocity hollow point). His aim was off with one shot and it tore the squirrel's hind leg off, shattering the bone to pieces. He swore at that point that he wouldn't use them again because they were too cruel if your aim wasn't perfect.

ponderingturtle · 11th July 2022, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

I remember when I was a kid my father once went squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle loaded with Stinger ammunition (high velocity hollow point). His aim was off with one shot and it tore the squirrel's hind leg off, shattering the bone to pieces. He swore at that point that he wouldn't use them again because they were too cruel if your aim wasn't perfect.

So not the kind of person who thinks exploding prairie dogs with a 5.56 is funny and great entertainment?

Armitage72 · 11th July 2022, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

So not the kind of person who thinks exploding prairie dogs with a 5.56 is funny and great entertainment?

When he hunted, it was practical. We ate the squirrels and there was always venison in the freezer when I was growing up.

Venom · 17th July 2022, 05:52 PM

Possible rampage shooting at the mall close to me. If the weather had been nice, I would have been shopping there at the time.

crescent · 17th July 2022, 06:18 PM

Shooting in Denver last night. One dead and five injured.

The kicker?

It was the Denver Police Department. They shot and killed the suspect - but also wounded five bystanders.

DPD officers shoot man in LoDo; 5 others in crowd injured

arthwollipot · 17th July 2022, 10:27 PM

In the interests of not getting accused of ignoring those occasions when it does happen:

Shooter kills three people in a shopping mall in Indianapolis before being gunned down by a bystander

Quote:

A gunman has killed three people when he opened fire in the food court of a shopping mall outside Indianapolis before a bystander fatally shot the assailant, Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison said.

Two other people were injured in the incident, which took place in the early evening at Greenwood Park Mall, the Indianapolis Star reported.

"The real hero of the day is the citizen [who] was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the shooter almost as soon as he began," Chief Ison told reporters.

Samson · 17th July 2022, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

In the interests of not getting accused of ignoring those occasions when it does happen:

Shooter kills three people in a shopping mall in Indianapolis before being gunned down by a bystander

Yes a much needed win for the gun lobby.
Responsible citizen legally carrying gun kills formerly responsible citizen legally carrying gun.

Samson · 18th July 2022, 02:09 AM

More on the Indiana shooting, now shootings,

https://www.newsweek.com/indiana-sho...it-law-1725411

People over 18 now carry hand guns without a permit as of july 1

Dr.Sid · 18th July 2022, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Samson

More on the Indiana shooting, now shootings,

https://www.newsweek.com/indiana-sho...it-law-1725411

People over 18 now carry hand guns without a permit as of july 1

Doubt permitless carry had any effect. It's related to handguns. Not rifles. If anything, it could enable the good guy to carry his.

Venom · 18th July 2022, 01:24 PM

One of my friends from high school died in the Greenwood, IN shooting.

RIP

Venom · 18th July 2022, 02:50 PM

I'm kind of annoyed by the immediate jump to "good guy with a gun" praise from some people, as if these people just can't wait to participate in an action scene when they are involved in the next public shooting.

That said, the good man in this story who stopped the shooter has not put himself on the spotlight just yet. He did give his name though.

sarge · 18th July 2022, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

I'm kind of annoyed by the immediate jump to "good guy with a gun" praise from some people, as if these people just can't wait to participate in an action scene when they are involved in the next public shooting.

That said, the good man in this story who stopped the shooter has not put himself on the spotlight just yet. He did give his name though.

The good guy with the gun, praiseworthy that he indisputably is, is not necessary in the absence of our freakishly illogical gun laws.

jeremyp · 19th July 2022, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

I'm kind of annoyed by the immediate jump to "good guy with a gun" praise from some people, as if these people just can't wait to participate in an action scene when they are involved in the next public shooting.

That said, the good man in this story who stopped the shooter has not put himself on the spotlight just yet. He did give his name though.

If the bad guy didn't have a gun, the good guy would not have needed his and nobody would have died.

alfaniner · 19th July 2022, 04:38 AM

I saw "Parkland" in the news and had to stop and actually look it up because my first thought was "Which one is that, again?" There have been so many now it's hard to separate them in my mind.

Susheel · 19th July 2022, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Doubt permitless carry had any effect. It's related to handguns. Not rifles. If anything, it could enable the good guy to carry his.

Yup...let's all have faith in the fact that "the good guy" might actually do something useful in the situation and not add collateral.

7th July 2022, 01:25 AM	#2001
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 16,977	Originally Posted by dann Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller An unknown number of people have been killed and wounded by a man with a rifle at Field's shopping center in Copenhagen https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919 Yes, three killed, four more in a critical condition. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62030919 But no longer reason to fear for their lives: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/al...-uden-livsfare The shooter is well-known by the psychiatric system: https://politiken.dk/indland/art8866...-i-psykiatrien Quote: The father, Robert Crimo Jr. ... said that the night before Monday's shooting, he and son Robert Crimo III discussed the 22-year-old Danish man man who shot and killed three people at a mall outside of Copenhagen on Sunday. "He goes, 'Yeah, that guy is an idiot.' That's what he said!" the dad recalled his on saying of the Danish shooter. The father said his son added. "People like that ... [commit mass shootings] to amp up the people that want to ban all guns." Crimo dad washes hands of guilt but talked with son about a mass shooting night before Highland Park Massacre (New York Post, July 6, 2022) I don't know if this means anything other than that he didn't want his father to know what he had planned to do.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

7th July 2022, 05:40 PM	#2004
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 52,762	Michael Moore on the Highland Park shooting He Knew No One Would Expect a Woman Was the Mass Killer and He Was Right Quote: I’ll say this about mass murderer Bobby Crimo. He knows that we are safe from the 51% of the population who don’t do mass murder. 99.9% of mass murderers are men. So he knew that the best way to escape his slaughter on Monday in Highland Park, Illinois, was to blend in with the terrorized crowd running for their lives — and to do so dressed as a “woman.” Because no one would dare suspect he was the shooter because, well, he was a “woman.” He had dressed as a woman, even as he was up on the roof, wearing a skirt and makeup as he fired off his 83+ bullets. • “Bullets” is a polite word in this case. The ammo he used in his “high powered assault rifle — a weapon of war” — is able to blow one’s head off. On Monday there was at least one victim with half his head gone. A woman was missing much of her upper torso. Another woman had most of one leg blown off — by just one “bullet.” I want every network and newspaper to do their duty to the truth and ***** show America what this really looks like. Stop blurring out the truth! When you do that you are liars. You pretend that by not showing the carnage you are being “respectful” to the families of the dead. WRONG. You are disrespecting the dead by not showing the sacrifice THEY made so WE can have a Second Amendment. Stop your b.s. and do your job. Show the world the real America in all its despicable violence. Legally-purchased guns with legally sold ammunition that has only one singular purpose: the utter annihilation of a human body with immediate decapitation and/or the vivisection that spills one’s innards out onto the sidewalk like raw mincemeat, organ after organ carved up and splayed for the little children at the parade to see. If millions saw the true horror of this, I am convinced they would March on Washington, encircle the Capitol and not leave until all assault weapons were banned or confiscated. • Here’s what Joe Biden was able to bring himself to say: “I am shocked by this senseless act of gun violence.” Really? You’re “shocked?” What planet have you been on? There is NOTHING shocking about this tragedy. IT HAPPENS EVERY ***** WEEK! 310 mass shootings since January. There are now two mass shootings PER DAY in the USA! And you call this “senseless gun violence?” Does that mean there is sensible gun violence? What does sensible violence look like? Stop calling it senseless! This all makes perfect sense! We Americans are the main perpetrators of violence, whether it’s against each other, against women specifically, whether it’s invading other countries or letting our people die from lack of health coverage so we can build more sophisticated bomb-dropping drones while we round up babies and kids on the border and throw them into cages. We’re one of the last countries with the death penalty, we lead the way in destroying planet Earth, we pump over 60 bullets into an unarmed Black man in Akron simply because he is Black, he’s not human, and wouldn’t it be cool to see what a Black body looks like with nothing left of his body but bullet holes? This makes cops like this so excited they jizz their pants.
	__________________ "Yes, I'll be around for many more centuries. You, meanwhile, will have long ago been turned into value dog food, despite your express wishes to the contrary." -- JihadJane

7th July 2022, 05:54 PM	#2006
Graham2001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,637	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Conspiracy theorists fascinate me. They definitely have a different psychology than those who don't tend that way. I'm dealing with a few in an old missing child case who are all into the theory it's a massive conspiracy among 8-9 people to cover up an accidental death rather than what is obvious to me: the child was abducted. No matter how many times I shoot down their 'evidence' (which is mostly just their interpretations based on a pre-existing belief), they just handwave it away and they're off to another "fact" based on their conspiracy belief. EVERYTHING has a nefarious reason /motive for them. I was reading a couple psychological analyses of the conspiracist personality and narcissism heads the list of traits. I'm shocked. You see that happening in the comments section to the blog entry I posted, the '...rose tatoos are "...a common antifa tattoo ..."...' guy is responded to by the person who wrote the blog entry and while they (The author of the linked blog post.) are willing to accept "...Antifa-thinking..." behind the shooting, they'd "...need more than a generic tattoo of a flower to draw that link."
	__________________ "I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...

7th July 2022, 05:59 PM	#2007
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 9,884	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild .. 5.56 is ‘high powered’ when measured by the effect of impact on a human at any useful range. That there are more powerful rounds available isn’t a particularly important fact when discussing what firearms should be available to the average citizen.
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!

7th July 2022, 06:33 PM	#2008
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,162	Originally Posted by sarge 5.56 is ‘high powered’ when measured by the effect of impact on a human at any useful range. That there are more powerful rounds available isn’t a particularly important fact when discussing what firearms should be available to the average citizen. Come to that, high velocity .22s have never had any function off the target range except to explode flesh, whether varmints or men. That's why I propose that BATF rewrite their regs to include 5.56 x 45 in the category of destructive devices.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

7th July 2022, 11:49 AM	#2002
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,626	Originally Posted by Graham2001 Conspiracy types are taking a different tack of course. One comment to the blog post linked below, whose creator tries to argue the shooter was apolitical, states that the rose tatoos are "...a common antifa tattoo ..." Another claims that "...the FBI activated another drone...", or to put it simply the shooter is yet another product of 'MK-Ultra/Treadstone' mass shooter factory. The rest of the commentary is not much better. https://up-ship.com/blog/?p=49886 Conspiracy theorists fascinate me. They definitely have a different psychology than those who don't tend that way. I'm dealing with a few in an old missing child case who are all into the theory it's a massive conspiracy among 8-9 people to cover up an accidental death rather than what is obvious to me: the child was abducted. No matter how many times I shoot down their 'evidence' (which is mostly just their interpretations based on a pre-existing belief), they just handwave it away and they're off to another "fact" based on their conspiracy belief. EVERYTHING has a nefarious reason /motive for them. I was reading a couple psychological analyses of the conspiracist personality and narcissism heads the list of traits. I'm shocked.

7th July 2022, 11:59 AM	#2003
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,626	Originally Posted by dann I don't know if this means anything other than that he didn't want his father to know what he had planned to do. I don't believe the father talked to his son about the Copenhagen shooting at all. I think he's trying to justify his signing and sponsoring his son's firearm owners identification (FOID) card application after the son had threatened to kill himself and all his family members just four months before. He's already claiming he's not culpable for what his son did. The shooter's parents had been involved in several domestic problems resulting in police coming to their home. The police confiscated the shooter's 16 knives, a sword and a machete but they were later returned to the father.

7th July 2022, 05:49 PM	#2005
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,994	I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild ..

8th July 2022, 07:22 AM	#2009
ZiprHead Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sag-Nasty Posts: 874	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiPS3nao9Dc
	__________________ When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy. IIDB is back, baby!

8th July 2022, 07:26 AM	#2010
ZiprHead Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sag-Nasty Posts: 874	Originally Posted by dudalb Yeah, Crimo appears to be a non political homicidal Maniac. A Highland Park resident has shared her experiences with the shooter. She claims he was a "known agitator" who "joined a group of pro-Trump and militia supporters in the summer of 2020 to intimidate residents..."
	__________________ When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy. IIDB is back, baby!

8th July 2022, 09:37 AM	#2011
erlando Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,360	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild .. Tell that to the parents of the kids in Uvalde that had their heads blown off by a 5.56. I don't give a flying **** about the "definition" or whatever of "high-powered rifle" when the reality is that 5.56mm rifles literally are ripping the victims' bodies apart. It occurred in Uvalde. It occurred again in Highland Park. Being able to rip bodies apart should be enough to call a weapon "high powered".
erlando Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,360	__________________ "If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved? Evolution IS a blind watchmaker

8th July 2022, 03:13 PM	#2012
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,734	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid I know it's quite irrelevant but 5.56 is not "high powered rifle" .. as rifles goes, it's actually quite mild .. Um, no. In general, ammo used in military assault rifles are referred to as intermediate cartridges. They are not considered "high powered" but are not at all mild. The intention is that they can deliver a lot of energy on target while still being controllable when fired in fully automatic mode. Thanks to the buffer spring, AR-15 and derived weapons are quite controllable under just about any circumstances. In the case of 5.56 mm rounds, the original AR-15 was designed to use a lower powered nitrocellulose powder that the military really did not want. So when the M-16 was adopted they went with a higher powered smokeless powder and that was also what civilians were getting. Then around the time the M-16A2 came out the new green tip ammo with an even stronger charge also came out. The green tip ammo became popular among civilian owners of AR-15 like weapons as well. So you are technically correct to say it is not high powered. But not at all correct to call it "mild". This is what is most properly called BS.
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,734	__________________ 45 es un titere Last edited by Doubt; 8th July 2022 at 03:22 PM.

8th July 2022, 03:48 PM	#2013
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,994	Originally Posted by Doubt So you are technically correct to say it is not high powered. But not at all correct to call it "mild". This is what is most properly called BS. I explicitly said it's mild "as rifles go" so you can keep your BS.

8th July 2022, 04:22 PM	#2014
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,734	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid I explicitly said it's mild "as rifles go" so you can keep your BS. Still valid. At best you have a distinction without a difference. The numbers here are not true in all cases but they still make the point. Yes, the 5.56 mm round is only about half the power of the 7.62 mm NATO standard round. But it is still three times the amount from .45 ACP, which is known for ripping big exit holes in people with less power. The point stands that they are not at all mild in any way, shape, or form. https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Muzzle_energy
Doubt Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,734	__________________ 45 es un titere

8th July 2022, 04:34 PM	#2015
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,994	Originally Posted by Doubt Still valid. At best you have a distinction without a difference. The numbers here are not true in all cases but they still make the point. Yes, the 5.56 mm round is only about half the power of the 7.62 mm NATO standard round. But it is still three times the amount from .45 ACP, which is known for ripping big exit holes in people with less power. The point stands that they are not at all mild in any way, shape, or form. https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Muzzle_energy Ok, once again, but it's the last time, I promise: "as rifles go". RIFLES.

8th July 2022, 05:14 PM	#2016
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,626	The eight year old the jerk off shot is now paralyzed from the waist down. His mother underwent several surgeries for her own injuries. Last year in Japan, they had ONE...ONE... homicide by firearm. Shinzo Abe's assassin had to make his own gun because they are so hard to get in Japan. But, yeah..I don't wanna hear how guns aren't the problem.

8th July 2022, 05:17 PM	#2017
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: in the kitchen Posts: 1,426	Perhaps 'mild' was a poor word choice. Especially as, you know, people died. There is nothing (in my opinion) 'mild' about any firearm, regardless of it's relative destructive power compared to any other. Given the context, I'm minded to agree with the good Captain's excised comment.
	__________________ Not a Cockney, but possibly Australian...I am Dick Van Dyke. Last edited by junkshop; 8th July 2022 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Clumsy attempt to clarify my position

8th July 2022, 07:54 PM	#2018
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 5,635	Originally Posted by Stacyhs The eight year old the jerk off shot is now paralyzed from the waist down. His mother underwent several surgeries for her own injuries. Last year in Japan, they had ONE...ONE... homicide by firearm. Shinzo Abe's assassin had to make his own gun because they are so hard to get in Japan. But, yeah..I don't wanna hear how guns aren't the problem. The attack in Japan is just normal. After all, we've been told that there is nothing, nothing we here in the USA can do to curb gun violence.
	__________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."

8th July 2022, 08:23 PM	#2019
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 21,174	Originally Posted by junkshop Perhaps 'mild' was a poor word choice. Especially as, you know, people died. There is nothing (in my opinion) 'mild' about any firearm, regardless of it's relative destructive power compared to any other. Given the context, I'm minded to agree with the good Captain's excised comment. But we can take Dr Sid's dispassionate observation at face value: the 5.56 isn't even on the high end of readily avsilable rifle power, and look what it does. Its not even the most vicious thing on the shelf at the corner store. These things are not needed by civilians.
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

8th July 2022, 10:18 PM	#2020
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,162	Since Dr. Sid is clearly the first person in history to make an unfortunate utterance (none of We the Advanced Beings has ever done such a thing), it is altogether fitting and proper to chastise him for it. When we have done enough chastising, I am confident that we will stop.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

8th July 2022, 10:32 PM	#2021
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 52,507	Originally Posted by sackett Since Dr. Sid is clearly the first person in history to make an unfortunate utterance (none of We the Advanced Beings has ever done such a thing), it is altogether fitting and proper to chastise him for it. When we have done enough chastising, I am confident that we will stop. Well when someone comments on a shooting where people have been torn apart, saying, in effect “ that’s not so bad, other guns would have made it worse” it is indeed unfortunate and worthy of chastisement.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

9th July 2022, 01:19 AM	#2022
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 44,917	Originally Posted by sackett Since Dr. Sid is clearly the first person in history to make an unfortunate utterance (none of We the Advanced Beings has ever done such a thing), it is altogether fitting and proper to chastise him for it. When we have done enough chastising, I am confident that we will stop. He does defend himself. The 5.56 round was designed to be as at least as lethal as larger rounds on the unarmoured or lightly armoured human body.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

9th July 2022, 09:43 AM	#2023
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24,282	Originally Posted by a_unique_person He does defend himself. The 5.56 round was designed to be as at least as lethal as larger rounds on the unarmoured or lightly armoured human body. Because that is, after all, the purpose of such weapons: To maim and kill. Hans
	__________________ Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.

9th July 2022, 11:11 AM	#2024
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,200	Back to our regularly scheduled not-a-mass-shooting mass shooting, this time from Gary, Indiana. 3 killed, 7 wounded when people in two separate cars pulled a drive-by at a block party. One black woman and two black men, one of whom was the mayor's cousin, were the victims this time. Before some not so smart cookies dismiss this as gang bangers killing one another: Quote: Witnesses tell FOX 32 Chicago that two vehicles drove by, both with multiple people inside, firing several gunshots at the crowd of bystanders. The victims are all believed to be innocent bystanders, per authorities. https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/ma...ly-block-party
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,200	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

11th July 2022, 05:36 AM	#2025
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,905	Originally Posted by erlando Tell that to the parents of the kids in Uvalde that had their heads blown off by a 5.56. That is really the parents fault for not sending them to school with proper helmets.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

11th July 2022, 06:11 AM	#2026
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,557	Originally Posted by sackett Come to that, high velocity .22s have never had any function off the target range except to explode flesh, whether varmints or men. That's why I propose that BATF rewrite their regs to include 5.56 x 45 in the category of destructive devices. I remember when I was a kid my father once went squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle loaded with Stinger ammunition (high velocity hollow point). His aim was off with one shot and it tore the squirrel's hind leg off, shattering the bone to pieces. He swore at that point that he wouldn't use them again because they were too cruel if your aim wasn't perfect.
	Last edited by Armitage72; 11th July 2022 at 06:13 AM.

11th July 2022, 06:19 AM	#2027
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,905	Originally Posted by Armitage72 I remember when I was a kid my father once went squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle loaded with Stinger ammunition (high velocity hollow point). His aim was off with one shot and it tore the squirrel's hind leg off, shattering the bone to pieces. He swore at that point that he wouldn't use them again because they were too cruel if your aim wasn't perfect. So not the kind of person who thinks exploding prairie dogs with a 5.56 is funny and great entertainment?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

11th July 2022, 06:25 AM	#2028
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,557	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle So not the kind of person who thinks exploding prairie dogs with a 5.56 is funny and great entertainment? When he hunted, it was practical. We ate the squirrels and there was always venison in the freezer when I was growing up.

17th July 2022, 05:52 PM	#2029
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 6,080	Possible rampage shooting at the mall close to me. If the weather had been nice, I would have been shopping there at the time.

17th July 2022, 06:18 PM	#2030
crescent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,287	Shooting in Denver last night. One dead and five injured. The kicker? It was the Denver Police Department. They shot and killed the suspect - but also wounded five bystanders. DPD officers shoot man in LoDo; 5 others in crowd injured

17th July 2022, 10:27 PM	#2031
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 79,943	In the interests of not getting accused of ignoring those occasions when it does happen: Shooter kills three people in a shopping mall in Indianapolis before being gunned down by a bystander Quote: A gunman has killed three people when he opened fire in the food court of a shopping mall outside Indianapolis before a bystander fatally shot the assailant, Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison said. Two other people were injured in the incident, which took place in the early evening at Greenwood Park Mall, the Indianapolis Star reported. "The real hero of the day is the citizen [who] was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the shooter almost as soon as he began," Chief Ison told reporters.
	__________________ The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

17th July 2022, 11:40 PM	#2032
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,272	Originally Posted by arthwollipot In the interests of not getting accused of ignoring those occasions when it does happen: Shooter kills three people in a shopping mall in Indianapolis before being gunned down by a bystander Yes a much needed win for the gun lobby. Responsible citizen legally carrying gun kills formerly responsible citizen legally carrying gun.

18th July 2022, 02:09 AM	#2033
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,272	More on the Indiana shooting, now shootings, https://www.newsweek.com/indiana-sho...it-law-1725411 People over 18 now carry hand guns without a permit as of july 1

18th July 2022, 05:37 AM	#2034
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,994	Originally Posted by Samson More on the Indiana shooting, now shootings, https://www.newsweek.com/indiana-sho...it-law-1725411 People over 18 now carry hand guns without a permit as of july 1 Doubt permitless carry had any effect. It's related to handguns. Not rifles. If anything, it could enable the good guy to carry his.

18th July 2022, 01:24 PM	#2035
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 6,080	One of my friends from high school died in the Greenwood, IN shooting. RIP